Free action Refocus...why YES! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Free action Refocus...why YES! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wizard Random
01-19-07, 11:00 PM As we all know the Psionic Meditation feat allows you to regain you're psionic focus as a move action, and barring some houserule or ablity that has been made up for a game nothing could change this.
However..
In Lost Empires of Faerun ( a really nice book) there is a little short sword called..Nimblestep! It has some really neat ablitys such as allwing one to use Up The Walls as a bonus feat. The real gem is the ability to Refocus as a Move action!!

1+1=2! If we use both in tandum we are able to refocus as a free action!

Poster: But RANDOM! neither the item or the feat say it can be dropped below a move action.

This is true, however as i mentioned before Psionic Meditation was the only way that exisited before the printing of Lost Empires, but if we follow example that have been laid down in the past such as being able to get a Crossbow to load as a free action then having this sword and the feat would work.

This is where it gets good, i would like for someone to either back me up or prove me wrong. Also if this information has been presented before then i am sorry, i don't visit the Psionics board that often and only read a page or two back when i DO visit.
Jaid
01-19-07, 11:08 PM i would say the bonus overlaps, not stacks.

because that's just crazy... you may as well hand out free wraithstrike at will to everyone if you're going to allow that kind of nonsense.

(in any event, you can already refocus by using up your swift action... swift action manifest hustle, use the bonus move equivalent to focus.)
hunterc311
01-19-07, 11:11 PM I'm sure you mean Psionic Meditation, not Rapid Focus.

I don't see why these two sources would stack any more than any other two sources of anything normally unstackable. There are very few things in D&D that stack, and they specifically list as stackable. This isn't one of them, so I guess I'd disagree with your logic.
Bacris
01-19-07, 11:16 PM Sorry, but going to have to disagree with you on this one.

Both effects allow you to focus as a move action. The XPH was out when Lost Empires was released, ergo if they wanted them to stack, they would have put in the rules. Otherwise, they overlap - just like a ring of evasion on a rogue.
Wizard Random
01-19-07, 11:23 PM I'm sure you mean Psionic Meditation, not Rapid Focus.

I don't see why these two sources would stack any more than any other two sources of anything normally unstackable. There are very few things in D&D that stack, and they specifically list as stackable. This isn't one of them, so I guess I'd disagree with your logic.

Much thanks its late, and i wouldve bet thousands that it was Rapid Refocus.

I am glad to get such a overwhelming response and all directed towards one avenue. A player brought this up in one of my games and i honestly did not know how to answer it. It MADE sense because we see plenty of examples eslwhere in the game of actions continuing to drop all the way down to a free action from even a Full Round in some cases. My player is a VERY sooth talker though and its always nice to have backup in when this comes around.
Wizard Random
01-19-07, 11:24 PM Both effects allow you to focus as a move action. The XPH was out when Lost Empires was released, ergo if they wanted them to stack, they would have put in the rules. Otherwise, they overlap - just like a ring of evasion on a rogue.

Heh Bacris when has WoTC ever been on the same page as logic? Also your example is slightly differnt that what i asked, a ring of evasion on a rogue? one is a class ability the other is a feat, hoeever the item in question works the same for both. Not trying to be difficult but if my player saw this post then he would latch onto that descrepincy with a +50 to his check.
Kiklio
01-19-07, 11:39 PM The funny thing is that most prestige class Evasion texts state that if you already have Evasion that it becomes Improved Evasion.

However, Psionic Meditation and Nimblefoot apparently don't specify stacking text. How do you know refocusing becomes a free action? Why not a swift action? That's the next step in the action hierarchy. After that comes a free action usable once per round. Then a free action usable any number of times per round.

The problem with extending rules based on logic is that you can't follow precedent when something isn't unclear. There is no action hierarchy. It's just making stuff up. That's not the way most people play the game. Look to other mechanics only when you find a contradiction or ambiguity.
Wizard Random
01-19-07, 11:41 PM Kiklio i LOVE your sig

Look for it on my thread..

Board quotes = Bag of Goodness (level 2) on the Char Op boards!
Bacris
01-20-07, 12:09 AM The funny thing is that most prestige class Evasion texts state that if you already have Evasion that it becomes Improved Evasion.

Prestige Class, yes, but not Rogue.

And Wizard Random, it's a valid comparison, regardless of feat vs class ability, because evasion later scales to Improved Evasion... but gaining the same ability twice doesn't stack to Improved Evasion in the case of the Rogue or the Ring.

So if you want a valid comparison - if you get an item that grants you a +10 insight bonus to your speed and also take a feet that grants you a +10 insight bonus to speed, do you get +20? No.

If you get a feat that allows you to quicken a power and then use an augment to quicken a power, do you get to manifest the power as a free action? No, it's still a swift action.

While I understand your logic, the rules don't support it. Sorry.
Wizard Random
01-20-07, 12:37 AM Prestige Class, yes, but not Rogue.

And Wizard Random, it's a valid comparison, regardless of feat vs class ability, because evasion later scales to Improved Evasion... but gaining the same ability twice doesn't stack to Improved Evasion in the case of the Rogue or the Ring.

So if you want a valid comparison - if you get an item that grants you a +10 insight bonus to your speed and also take a feet that grants you a +10 insight bonus to speed, do you get +20? No.

If you get a feat that allows you to quicken a power and then use an augment to quicken a power, do you get to manifest the power as a free action? No, it's still a swift action.

While I understand your logic, the rules don't support it. Sorry.

Hey no worries I would /bow to you on Psionics before anyone else. I was just making SURE that it doesnt work. Sometimes the only way to encourage the best from people is to give them hardships.
Wizard Random
02-13-07, 04:35 PM Sorry to bring this thread back up, but while i was looking through Magic of Ebberon i noticed the feat "Heroic Focus" It allows you to spend a action point to regain your focus as a move action and gives you +1 action points per level. However the special on it says if you have the feat "Psionic Meditation" you can burn a point to refocus as a Swift Action.

Here is a example of being able to refocus turning from a Standered, to a Move, to a Swift. With this in mind would my original idea still not work? Would having the feat+sword allow you to refocus as a swift/free??
Tempest Stormwind
02-13-07, 04:57 PM No, it wouldn't, because turning a move into a move doesn't produce a swift. Heroic Focus is the exception.

Example: The combat form feats (PHB2) get better if you have three or more combat form feats. Therefore, by your logic, if I have a lot of psionic feats, each one gets better. Note how this is not the case.
Despana
02-13-07, 06:39 PM Heroic Focus is the exception, not the rule.

If it was a standard rule that having 2 abilities to refocus as a move action caused it to be a swift action, why would Heroic Focus have to spell it out?
baltasar_basilius
02-26-07, 04:49 PM Sorry to bring this thread back up, but while i was looking through Magic of Ebberon i noticed the feat "Heroic Focus" It allows you to spend a action point to regain your focus as a move action and gives you +1 action points per level. However the special on it says if you have the feat "Psionic Meditation" you can burn a point to refocus as a Swift Action.

Also, you can use egoist or psy warrior "hustle" to gain an extra move action in the same amount of time(swift- not free). It may cost more PP, but an you can do more with an extra move over just being able to refocus quickly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wizard Random 01-19-07, 11:00 PM	As we all know the Psionic Meditation feat allows you to regain you're psionic focus as a move action, and barring some houserule or ablity that has been made up for a game nothing could change this. However.. In Lost Empires of Faerun ( a really nice book) there is a little short sword called..Nimblestep! It has some really neat ablitys such as allwing one to use Up The Walls as a bonus feat. The real gem is the ability to Refocus as a Move action!! 1+1=2! If we use both in tandum we are able to refocus as a free action! Poster: But RANDOM! neither the item or the feat say it can be dropped below a move action. This is true, however as i mentioned before Psionic Meditation was the only way that exisited before the printing of Lost Empires, but if we follow example that have been laid down in the past such as being able to get a Crossbow to load as a free action then having this sword and the feat would work. This is where it gets good, i would like for someone to either back me up or prove me wrong. Also if this information has been presented before then i am sorry, i don't visit the Psionics board that often and only read a page or two back when i DO visit.
Jaid 01-19-07, 11:08 PM	i would say the bonus overlaps, not stacks. because that's just crazy... you may as well hand out free wraithstrike at will to everyone if you're going to allow that kind of nonsense. (in any event, you can already refocus by using up your swift action... swift action manifest hustle, use the bonus move equivalent to focus.)
hunterc311 01-19-07, 11:11 PM	I'm sure you mean Psionic Meditation, not Rapid Focus. I don't see why these two sources would stack any more than any other two sources of anything normally unstackable. There are very few things in D&D that stack, and they specifically list as stackable. This isn't one of them, so I guess I'd disagree with your logic.
Bacris 01-19-07, 11:16 PM	Sorry, but going to have to disagree with you on this one. Both effects allow you to focus as a move action. The XPH was out when Lost Empires was released, ergo if they wanted them to stack, they would have put in the rules. Otherwise, they overlap - just like a ring of evasion on a rogue.
Wizard Random 01-19-07, 11:23 PM	I'm sure you mean Psionic Meditation, not Rapid Focus. I don't see why these two sources would stack any more than any other two sources of anything normally unstackable. There are very few things in D&D that stack, and they specifically list as stackable. This isn't one of them, so I guess I'd disagree with your logic. Much thanks its late, and i wouldve bet thousands that it was Rapid Refocus. I am glad to get such a overwhelming response and all directed towards one avenue. A player brought this up in one of my games and i honestly did not know how to answer it. It MADE sense because we see plenty of examples eslwhere in the game of actions continuing to drop all the way down to a free action from even a Full Round in some cases. My player is a VERY sooth talker though and its always nice to have backup in when this comes around.
Wizard Random 01-19-07, 11:24 PM	Both effects allow you to focus as a move action. The XPH was out when Lost Empires was released, ergo if they wanted them to stack, they would have put in the rules. Otherwise, they overlap - just like a ring of evasion on a rogue. Heh Bacris when has WoTC ever been on the same page as logic? Also your example is slightly differnt that what i asked, a ring of evasion on a rogue? one is a class ability the other is a feat, hoeever the item in question works the same for both. Not trying to be difficult but if my player saw this post then he would latch onto that descrepincy with a +50 to his check.
Kiklio 01-19-07, 11:39 PM	The funny thing is that most prestige class Evasion texts state that if you already have Evasion that it becomes Improved Evasion. However, Psionic Meditation and Nimblefoot apparently don't specify stacking text. How do you know refocusing becomes a free action? Why not a swift action? That's the next step in the action hierarchy. After that comes a free action usable once per round. Then a free action usable any number of times per round. The problem with extending rules based on logic is that you can't follow precedent when something isn't unclear. There is no action hierarchy. It's just making stuff up. That's not the way most people play the game. Look to other mechanics only when you find a contradiction or ambiguity.
Wizard Random 01-19-07, 11:41 PM	Kiklio i LOVE your sig Look for it on my thread.. Board quotes = Bag of Goodness (level 2) on the Char Op boards!
Bacris 01-20-07, 12:09 AM	The funny thing is that most prestige class Evasion texts state that if you already have Evasion that it becomes Improved Evasion. Prestige Class, yes, but not Rogue. And Wizard Random, it's a valid comparison, regardless of feat vs class ability, because evasion later scales to Improved Evasion... but gaining the same ability twice doesn't stack to Improved Evasion in the case of the Rogue or the Ring. So if you want a valid comparison - if you get an item that grants you a +10 insight bonus to your speed and also take a feet that grants you a +10 insight bonus to speed, do you get +20? No. If you get a feat that allows you to quicken a power and then use an augment to quicken a power, do you get to manifest the power as a free action? No, it's still a swift action. While I understand your logic, the rules don't support it. Sorry.
Wizard Random 01-20-07, 12:37 AM	Prestige Class, yes, but not Rogue. And Wizard Random, it's a valid comparison, regardless of feat vs class ability, because evasion later scales to Improved Evasion... but gaining the same ability twice doesn't stack to Improved Evasion in the case of the Rogue or the Ring. So if you want a valid comparison - if you get an item that grants you a +10 insight bonus to your speed and also take a feet that grants you a +10 insight bonus to speed, do you get +20? No. If you get a feat that allows you to quicken a power and then use an augment to quicken a power, do you get to manifest the power as a free action? No, it's still a swift action. While I understand your logic, the rules don't support it. Sorry. Hey no worries I would /bow to you on Psionics before anyone else. I was just making SURE that it doesnt work. Sometimes the only way to encourage the best from people is to give them hardships.
Wizard Random 02-13-07, 04:35 PM	Sorry to bring this thread back up, but while i was looking through Magic of Ebberon i noticed the feat "Heroic Focus" It allows you to spend a action point to regain your focus as a move action and gives you +1 action points per level. However the special on it says if you have the feat "Psionic Meditation" you can burn a point to refocus as a Swift Action. Here is a example of being able to refocus turning from a Standered, to a Move, to a Swift. With this in mind would my original idea still not work? Would having the feat+sword allow you to refocus as a swift/free??
Tempest Stormwind 02-13-07, 04:57 PM	No, it wouldn't, because turning a move into a move doesn't produce a swift. Heroic Focus is the exception. Example: The combat form feats (PHB2) get better if you have three or more combat form feats. Therefore, by your logic, if I have a lot of psionic feats, each one gets better. Note how this is not the case.
Despana 02-13-07, 06:39 PM	Heroic Focus is the exception, not the rule. If it was a standard rule that having 2 abilities to refocus as a move action caused it to be a swift action, why would Heroic Focus have to spell it out?
baltasar_basilius 02-26-07, 04:49 PM	Sorry to bring this thread back up, but while i was looking through Magic of Ebberon i noticed the feat "Heroic Focus" It allows you to spend a action point to regain your focus as a move action and gives you +1 action points per level. However the special on it says if you have the feat "Psionic Meditation" you can burn a point to refocus as a Swift Action. Also, you can use egoist or psy warrior "hustle" to gain an extra move action in the same amount of time(swift- not free). It may cost more PP, but an you can do more with an extra move over just being able to refocus quickly.