Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dipteran_Legacy 11-02-07, 09:37 PM	hey all! I used to lurk around here a lot and post occasionally, it's good to be back-I still see alot of the same vets around anyways, I've ran a few campaigns with psionics, and played a psychic warrior before- I'm a big fan of gishy types. however, I have extremely limited experience with pure "casters", and for a game that's already started, it would be nice for a change of pace to try something different. the DM was allowing psionic classes, but not psionic races, so I wound up with a dwarven kineticst. sounded like a fun and fairly thematic idea-that out of any psionic powers, dwarves would be most likely to manifest a talent for those that directly affected the earth around him. anyways, so far I've picked up mind thrust, vigor, grease, entangling ectoplasm, and control object for my 1st level powers. just reached level three, and picked up identify(the dm ruled that it would work on magical items, too!) and energy missile(the un-nerfed variety). energy missile, in particular, was a godsend. my 1st level feats are overchannel and talented, and I picked up psionic body at third, despite already having vigor. the DM is running a fairly brutal game, and though the sorceror hase UMD and a wand of CLW, we have no true blue first aid kit. anyways, I was just wondering about any particular tips anyone may have to offer someone fairly inexperienced in playing raw casters. I know to expanded knowledge schism as soon as ninth level comes up, and am debating whether to pick up a psycrystal, or get expanded knowledge: astral construct at fifth level. I know astral construct is extremely powerful, especially with overchannel and boost construct, but I'd prefer to run my character with more of a "channeling raw kinetic power" sorta feel, as un-optimized as it may be. however, the aforementioned brutality of the campaign may leave room for nothing but optimal cheese. as well as general tips, I was wondering if anyone would think it worth the time of such a character to go into slayer. as the groups main artillery platform, I'm leery of sacrificing even one manifester level, but the extra hp and psionic resistances is tempting.... thanks again for any general advice or building tips anyone can offer! and sorry if this seemed a bit longwinded, but people usually wind up asking for specifics sooner or later, so I figured I'd get everything I could think of out asap. :)
Jaid 11-02-07, 10:25 PM	research astral construct. 1k xp is cheaper than 1 feat by a long shot. and it is worth noting that astral construct does actually have some blasty doom in it ;)
Bacris 11-03-07, 12:13 AM	First of all, ditch Mind Thrust. It might look good on paper, but that Will Negates clause and Mind-Affecting descriptor makes it pretty crappy. Swap it for Energy Ray if you want to keep a low-power, direct damage effect. Next, around 9th level, you're going to want to pick up Empower Power. 7th level is actually when it's mathematically superior to pure augmentation, but that's an awkward level to use it. Energy Current + Solicit Psicrystal is a phenomenal output for the cost in power points. Favored Energy from Hyperconscious is also nice for a kineticist. :)
TheKeyofE 11-03-07, 01:12 AM	If you have Complete Psionic, take a level dip in Anarchic Initiate. You already have Overchannel for the entry requirements.
DracoPhoenix 11-03-07, 12:25 PM	Specialise your energy powers. Learn to love Energy missiles (not hard), but don't waste all your known powers on the other energy powers, pick one or two other effect types (cone, blast, etc). Energy missile's versatile enough to handle single or multiple creatures. Also, save for half is still damage. If you have Comp Psi, consider Energy Barrage for mass destruction. Energy Ball is ~pressureless, so no point packing it for concussive force. At the moment I tend to pick shaper or telepath and Expanded Knowledge Energy missile at 5th. Edit: Oh, and around 12/15th pick up twin power & Psi Meditation. +6 pp to double your damage becomes viable about here. (L13 to be exact)
DracoPhoenix 11-03-07, 12:33 PM	research astral construct. 1k xp is cheaper than 1 feat by a long shot. and it is worth noting that astral construct does actually have some blasty doom in it ;) The down side is, it counts as one of your powers known :( Still, cheaper than getting Chirgery I suppose...right? *goes off to look*
Lycanthromancer 11-03-07, 05:38 PM	I tend to see astral construct more as a utility/defensive power far more than an offensive one. In fact, it's quite probably the most versatile power in the entire game, even more than psionic minor creation and fabricate. In any case, you're going to be wanting to save your power points as much as possible. Go with damaging powers with a duration, such as the aforementioned energy current. Also pick up energy wall and energy conversion if you want some REAL firepower with a long duration. Focusing on rays wouldn't be too bad, either. Then, once you pick up psionic disintegrate, you can start using the Split Psionic Ray feat to do some very, VERY nasty damage (even if you're not allowed to use both rays against a single target, or if your target(s) make their saves; if you can, the damage potential becomes utterly insane). You likely already know this, but don't go all-out for blasty-type powers. Allow the non-casters to do direct-damage in the beginning of the battle, while you use some debuff and battlefield-control type powers (such as dispel psionics or wall of ectoplasm). You can help mop things up once you've partially crippled your enemy. :)
Dipteran_Legacy 11-03-07, 05:46 PM	thanks for all the advice, everyone! a few more q's & comments, if you dont mind.... research astral construct. 1k xp is cheaper than 1 feat by a long shot. I'll definitely try to do this, if the DM gives the party any downtime. So far things have been pretty nonstop. First of all, ditch Mind Thrust. It might look good on paper, but that Will Negates clause and Mind-Affecting descriptor makes it pretty crappy. Swap it for Energy Ray if you want to keep a low-power, direct damage effect. yeah, it was just a way to have direct damage until I picked up energy missile. I'm leery of making attack rolls with low bab characters, I almost always roll under 10. and it isnt one of those "you only notice it when you roll bad" things, either. I feel a little more assured with my dm making rolls than me. but yeah, even with my limited experience with it, it's turned out to be even more mediocre than I imagined it would be. Next, around 9th level, you're going to want to pick up Empower Power. 7th level is actually when it's mathematically superior to pure augmentation, but that's an awkward level to use it. if I do go with psycrystal at 5, that leaves me looking at psycrystal containment, empower power, and ek:schism (if I dont have the chance to settle down for some research) as feats I'd ideally like to pick up somewhere between 6 & 10. would it possibly be better to grab empower at lvl 6, or should I just wait for 9? Energy Current + Solicit Psicrystal is a phenomenal output for the cost in power points. I was looking & thinking about this one. after your advice, and more thoroughly looking at energy current, I think I'll go for it. gracias! Favored Energy from Hyperconscious is also nice for a kineticist. If you have Complete Psionic, take a level dip in Anarchic Initiate. You already have Overchannel for the entry requirements. my DM is only using the core books, no splatbooks at all, even well-crafted ones by some of the finest on the psionics board, let alone compsy.:weep: this is also why I'm leery of slayer: no practiced manifester Specialise your energy powers. Learn to love Energy missiles (not hard), but don't waste all your known powers on the other energy powers, pick one or two other effect types (cone, blast, etc). Energy missile's versatile enough to handle single or multiple creatures. Also, save for half is still damage. If you have Comp Psi, consider Energy Barrage for mass destruction. Energy Ball is ~pressureless, so no point packing it for concussive force. I was looking at energy ball (and now energy current) to round off my arsenal. one huge thing I've noticed that psions have over sorcerors is that they dont have to pick up tons of direct damage spells just to keep up:) I thought the whole "pressureless" thing was mainly a flavor thing- is it an actual drawback to the spell? also, I think concussion blast is garbage, but it is force damage, so I was wondering if that makes it handy at times, or if it's really not worth it at all in your opinions? Edit: Oh, and around 12/15th pick up twin power & Psi Meditation. +6 pp to double your damage becomes viable about here. (L13 to be exact) the DM's aiming at wrapping up the campaign "somewhere around level 12", which I'm taking to mean "anywhere between 10 & 15". I dont have the wisdom for meditation, but I might look into twin power if the campaign gets up that high. one last question.... if I do pick up psycrystal containment, can I burn both focuses in a single turn? say on a overchanneled/empowered/twinned power?....though I'm not even sure if such a thing would be worth it point-wise..... and one more, even though I said the last one would be last: is ego whip worth it, or is it only really great with wild surge? thanks again! :D
Dipteran_Legacy 11-03-07, 06:08 PM	I tend to see astral construct more as a utility/defensive power far more than an offensive one. In fact, it's quite probably the most versatile power in the entire game, even more than psionic minor creation and fabricate. yeah, I'd prefer my character to be offensively-oriented, but with the way the game's going, I may have to pick it up for said amazing versatility Also pick up energy wall and energy conversion if you want some REAL firepower with a long duration. mmm.... energy conversion seems interesting, though far-off. I dunno about energy wall though- is it really worth it? the damage is constant, but not very high, and the save is easy to make... Focusing on rays wouldn't be too bad, either. Then, once you pick up psionic disintegrate, you can start using the Split Psionic Ray feat to do some very, VERY nasty damage (even if you're not allowed to use both rays against a single target, or if your target(s) make their saves; if you can, the damage potential becomes utterly insane). yeah, I was debating between a psion or a ray-oriented wilder, but someone else in the party is using a wilder, and it's his first time using psionics, so I didnt want him to feel that I was one-upping him. with the psions attack bonus, I'd sorta prefer to stay away from touch attacks, but I'll stay open to the idea, and watch how the game's going. You likely already know this, but don't go all-out for blasty-type powers. Allow the non-casters to do direct-damage in the beginning of the battle, while you use some debuff and battlefield-control type powers (such as wall of ectoplasm). You can help mop things up once you've partially crippled your enemy. I was actually sorta operating under a nova-esque philosophy: the faster I eradicate the enemies, the faster we stop taking damage. while this hasn't come back to bite me yet, I am often uncomfortably low on PP by the time we have a chance to rest, so I'll keep this in mind. and wall of ectoplasm looks utterly amazing, thanks for pointing that one out!
InkBlot 11-03-07, 07:16 PM	mmm.... energy conversion seems interesting, though far-off. I dunno about energy wall though- is it really worth it? the damage is constant, but not very high, and the save is easy to make. The energy wall isn't there to hurt your enemies. It's there to fuel your energy conversion. And don't forget to share energy conversion with your psicrystal to double the amount of rays for free. Two rays per round, each dealing 3xML damage, for two hours -- for only 18 power points. Also, because it ignores hardness, a sonic energy wall can shake it's way through anything given enough time. It can shake down a two-inch-thick iron door in just one minute. Assuming dirt has the same HP as wood (which I doubt), it only takes about one hour to dig a 20-foot-deep by 100-foot-long trench. The indefinite duration on energy wall makes these things possible.
DracoPhoenix 11-03-07, 09:02 PM	I thought the whole "pressureless" thing was mainly a flavor thing- is it an actual drawback to the spell? also, I think concussion blast is garbage, but it is force damage, so I was wondering if that makes it handy at times, or if it's really not worth it at all in your opinions? I was talking explosive force over the power - you couldn't use energy ball to say, blow a door off it's hinges (ok, bad example, sonic damage to destroy it's better anyway). And don't knock force damage, it's got horrible augmentation - even with arcane, for a reason. It's pretty much unstoppable.
Dipteran_Legacy 11-03-07, 11:55 PM	The energy wall isn't there to hurt your enemies. It's there to fuel your energy conversion. And don't forget to share energy conversion with your psicrystal to double the amount of rays for free. Two rays per round, each dealing 3xML damage, for two hours -- for only 18 power points. Also, because it ignores hardness, a sonic energy wall can shake it's way through anything given enough time. It can shake down a two-inch-thick iron door in just one minute. Assuming dirt has the same HP as wood (which I doubt), it only takes about one hour to dig a 20-foot-deep by 100-foot-long trench. The indefinite duration on energy wall makes these things possible. :OMG! .......lol, shows how much I know. yeah, I think I'll be picking that up. bear with me though.... how would you keep it going for two hours? if you're concentrating, you'd lose the standard action required to discharge the energy. and while the psycrystal can deliver touch attacks, it still only gets a single standard action per round. if you schism, you're burning more than 18 pp..... what am I missing here? this also led me down a rabbit hole in pursuit of a plethora of psycrystal questions, most of which tempest's excellent faq answered. but this has also led to an overwhelming new world of possibilities...... it would seem that, with a medium bab, there's no reason I couldn't merely use my psycrystal to deliver touch attacks. especially if it gets its own feats, in which case I could designate weapon focus: ray to it, amongst other such things..... lol. I hate wizards, but I'm falling in love with psions more and more! thanks again everyone! (and I'd still appreciate an explanation on how I can get two rays out of the energy wall + conversion combo every round for two hours & 18 pp, if no one minds breaking it down a bit more. I see how the wall feeds the conversion, I just dont see how you can concentrate and shoot rays at the same time?)
InkBlot 11-04-07, 01:12 AM	how would you keep it going for two hours? Yeah, I got carried away and forgot to double check all the rules. I also made a huge math error on how long it takes to knock down walls with energy conversion, but I caught that right away and fixed it. There are ways to concentrate on powers as swift actions, if you're willing to stretch transparency a bit past the default. There's a skill trick from Complete Scoundrel, and a feat from Complete Adventurer. Technically they're for spellcasters, but converting them is even easier than converting Practiced Spellcaster (WotC converted that with a sloppy copy-paste job). They wouldn't let you manifest another power while concentrating, but you can just manifest energy conversion first. However, you're unlikely to have all of your fights that day within a span of two hours, and within close range of your 260-foot-long energy wall. So it's more realistic, either way, to go with the assumption that you won't be concentrating on your energy walls. You might also need to remanifest energy conversion. So with those assumptions, it'll cost you between 23 and 46 power points to cover all your blasting needs in a day. That high end still costs less than four fully augmented (ML 13) powers, and that cost will never go up (although it can be reduced with Extend Power). Both energy wall and energy conversion scale for free. Another strategy that might work well, is to manifest energy conversion on your psicrystal but not yourself. Then you can set it up in a strategic position, and have it act as a little laser turret. At level 15, when your psicrystal gets Channel Power, this strategy gains a lot more variations and options.
Katash 11-04-07, 01:59 PM	Sorry dude, you MUST get a psycrystal. It's a sentry that never sleeps and the share powers ability is just too good (especially if you learn metamorphosis-not your discipline I know, and metamorphic transfer. Too much fun to be had with that combo) You need to beg your DM to allow Hyperconscious. Brutalise Wounds is a must have on any Kineticist power list (Save or all DD powers and Non-Psionic attacks do MAXIMUM damage for a few rounds-this obviously benefits the rest of your party as well.) Slayer is worth it- losing 1ML is okay since you can set your own save DC's anyway, and make use of Energy Conversion and other energy scources- eg go stand in that pool of lava/wizards energy wall.Stay there. Baddies hurt themselves if they attack you and you get energy rays for free.:D
Lycanthromancer 11-04-07, 02:18 PM	Okay, here's how you get the most out of the energy wall + energy conversion combo: Manifest an Extend Power + Split Psionic Ray'd energy conversion. Share with your psicrystal. Manifest a sonic energy wall, and concentrate for...say...30 minutes. Right before battle, use metamorphosis on your psicrystal to turn it into something NOT immune to mind-affecting effects (such as a hummingbird, for maneuverability), then share schism with it. That nets you (Self x2 + schism x2 + psicrystal x2 + schism x2) 24 x your manifester level in damage each round if they all hit. In addition, if you use Greater Psionic Shot, that's an extra 4d6 damage each round. You get all that, PLUS protection from various energy types, and you can save your power points for when it really matters. :D
DracoPhoenix 11-04-07, 06:19 PM	Okay, here's how you get the most out of the energy wall + energy conversion combo: Manifest an Extend Power + Split Psionic Ray'd energy conversion. Share with your psicrystal. Manifest a sonic energy wall, and concentrate for...say...30 minutes. Right before battle, use metamorphosis on your psicrystal to turn it into something NOT immune to mind-affecting effects (such as a hummingbird, for maneuverability), then share schism with it. That nets you (Self x2 + schism x2 + psicrystal x2 + schism x2) 24 x your manifester level in damage each round if they all hit. In addition, if you use Greater Psionic Shot, that's an extra 4d6 damage each round. You get all that, PLUS protection from various energy types, and you can save your power points for when it really matters. :D What about twin powering that energy wall after ~L13 to bump the damage absorbed a bit?
InkBlot 11-04-07, 07:41 PM	That'll only result in one crispy psion. Energy conversion can only absorb 30 points of damage each round. Energy wall (at ML 13) puts out 2d6 + 13 for standing in the wall plus 2d6 for being within 10 feet of the wall, for a total average of 27 damage each round. As is, you're bound to roll more damage than your conversion can take if you keep the wall up long enough. The wall's max damage is 37. Of course, that's if you're standing smack-dab in the middle of the wall. You'll only need to be standing inside the wall if you're charging and blasting at the same time. If you're pre-charging, then it hardly matters if it takes 60 minutes or 30 minutes.
Dipteran_Legacy 11-05-07, 03:08 PM	just wanted to thank everyone for the pointers. I think I'm going to risk skipping ek:astral construct and just beg the dm to give us the downtime at some point in the future to let me research it. I'll probably go psycrystal at 5, empower power at 6, and solicit psycrystal at 9. by level 7 I'm going to use psychic reformation, too. I'm hopin I'll have enough powers & hitpoints by then that I can afford to reform away psionic body, and just use vigor if things get bad. one last question: is it worth keeping psionic identify, or should I just try to pick up craft dorje, make a dorje out of it, and then reform away the craft dorje feat & power at 9? I felt it was a pretty good deal, since I can id magic items too(dm ok'd this), but I just want to hear everyone's opinions
Bacris 11-05-07, 03:54 PM	Solicit Psicrystal is a power, not a feat. What you want is Psionic Meditation to regain focus faster. :)
Dipteran_Legacy 11-05-07, 04:01 PM	sorry, I meant psycrystal containment. it was point-buy, and I was shorts-sighted enough to worry about dex & con over wis, so psionic mediataion is, unfortunately, out of the question, though I really, really regret that now
InkBlot 11-05-07, 05:49 PM	I can id magic items too(dm ok'd this) That's like having your DM O.K. a sorcerer using a wizard's wand. Anyway, putting identify into a dorje could be a good idea. Do you plan on only ever needing to identify 50 things or less? Can you normally get things cheaply identified when your character is in twon? Are you really hurting for another 2nd level power? Is there any other power that you use less than, or just as little as, identify? Making a dorje of identify may be cheaper than hiring a person to cast or manifest (especially cast) it for you. I haven't checked the math though. However, being able to get things identified in town will prevent you from using up your dorje of identify too quickly. If there are powers that you use less than identify, then those should go first of course.
Dipteran_Legacy 11-11-07, 01:17 AM	one more question: as far as the share pain +vigor shared w/ psicrsytal, does the shared damage get reduced by the psicrystals hardness? the power doesn't seem to have the clause that empathic transfer does explicitly stating that "empathic" damage isn't reduced by anything, so I'd be inclined to think that it would be, but I'm unsure, and know it will be an area of debate when I use it. then again, this line: The amount of damage not taken by you is taken by the subject. would seem to suggest otherwise.:confused: I just want to figure out exactly how it works beforehand, so there's little/no combat slowdown when the DM starts raising his eyebrows. thanks!
Zathress 11-11-07, 02:26 PM	research astral construct. 1k xp is cheaper than 1 feat by a long shot. and it is worth noting that astral construct does actually have some blasty doom in it ;) Researching lets you come up with new unique powers. It does not let you learn powers from another disciplines list. Independent Research: A psion also can research a power independently, duplicating an existing power or creating an entirely new one. If characters are allowed to develop new powers, use these guidelines to handle the situation. Any kind of manifester can create a new power. The research involved requires access to a retreat conducive to uninterrupted meditation. Research involves an expenditure of 200 XP per week and takes one week per level of the power. At the end of that time, the character makes a Psicraft check (DC 10 + spell level). If that check succeeds, the character learns the new power if her research produced a viable power. If the check fails, the character must go through the research process again if she wants to keep trying. I see NO mention of being able to research already existing powers and take them as your own. Let alone ones from a different disciplines list. So it doesn't trump the rules already written on the psion's page
InkBlot 11-11-07, 03:24 PM	Independent Research: A psion also can research a power independently, duplicating an existing power or creating an entirely new one. ... I see NO mention of being able to research already existing powers and take them as your own. Do you see it now?
IceFractal 11-11-07, 03:50 PM	Besides, if you couldn't research existing powers ... you still could, by researching a new power called, say, Zastral Zonstruct: Zastral Zonstruct As Astral Construct, except as above.
SlanderPanic 11-11-07, 04:08 PM	Low-level protip: Use energy ray (sonic) to sunder enemy shields and weapons. It's less loot for your group, but I'd personally rather have less loot than a bunch of dead PCs.
InkBlot 11-11-07, 04:47 PM	Nice idea, but you can't sunder with a ranged attack.
SlanderPanic 11-12-07, 12:38 PM	Woops. You're right. You should be able to, in my opinion, but that's not the way the rules rumble.
InkBlot 11-12-07, 12:59 PM	You might be able to do it with an energy missle. But the HP of things varies wildly, from 2 hp for a shortsword to 20 hp for a trident. It also doubles with each size category you increase. You could blow apart a huge shortsword in one shot at 5th level, but even at 10th level you'll be sawing through a large heavy metal shield for a few rounds. Hit points aren't normally that much of a problem, but you're not likely to have your allies contributing to damaging these objects.
Dipteran_Legacy 11-12-07, 02:39 PM	I think my question was lost in the heat of the debate on psionic sundering... either that, or it was such a dumb question that no-one felt it worth answering, but I'll repost it once more, in hopes that it's more of the former, and less of the latter. one more question: as far as the share pain +vigor shared w/ psicrsytal, does the shared damage get reduced by the psicrystals hardness? the power doesn't seem to have the clause that empathic transfer does explicitly stating that "empathic" damage isn't reduced by anything, so I'd be inclined to think that it would be, but I'm unsure, and know it will be an area of debate when I use it. then again, this line: The amount of damage not taken by you is taken by the subject. may suggest otherwise.:confused: I just want to figure out exactly how it works beforehand, so there's little/no combat slowdown when the DM starts raising his eyebrows. thanks!
SlanderPanic 11-13-07, 10:21 AM	I'd say DR/hardness doesn't apply, like with empathic transfer.
Dipteran_Legacy 11-13-07, 01:29 PM	gratzi! :)
CrimsonDeath 11-13-07, 03:20 PM	That'll only result in one crispy psion. Energy conversion can only absorb 30 points of damage each round. Not true. Energy Adaptation grants resistance to all five energy types, which Energy Conversion inherits. Resistance to an energy type applies to each attack, not just per round. You can absorb an arbitrarily high amount of damage each round, as long as it's dealt in increments of 30 or less.
InkBlot 11-13-07, 04:45 PM	For everybody just joining in, my statement about crispy psions was in response to the suggestion that you should double up your energy walls in order to fill up your energy conversion reserves even faster. RESISTANCE TO ENERGY A creature with resistance to energy has the ability (usually extraordinary) to ignore some damage of a certain type each round, but it does not have total immunity. It's per-round. Anyway, if you set up an energy wall to deal an average of 30 damage each round, then it's going to go over 30 pretty often and scorch you. If you have two of those, then you'll be losing HP pretty fast, even if you treat energy resistance as per-attack. If it's per-attack, then it would be safer to use two walls which each have a max damage of 30 or less. That way you fill up just as fast, but you won't losing any HP to your own walls. If it's per-round, then using two lower-ML walls would still be safer, simply because you're more likely to roll closer to average.
CrimsonDeath 11-13-07, 06:17 PM	Interesting. We've apparently been using Energy Resistance wrong; we thought it worked like Damage Reduction.
hovnarr 11-14-07, 10:16 AM	IIRC, there are two contradictory instances in the SRD concerning energy resistance - one implies it's per round, the other that it's per attack (like DR). I'm not motivated enough to dig both up, and it might have been clarified in errata or FAQ - dunno.
SlanderPanic 11-14-07, 10:25 AM	It's less complicated to let it work like DR. As a general rule, less complicated = more fun.
CrimsonDeath 11-14-07, 05:46 PM	IIRC, there are two contradictory instances in the SRD concerning energy resistance - one implies it's per round, the other that it's per attack (like DR). I'm not motivated enough to dig both up, and it might have been clarified in errata or FAQ - dunno. Probably because one instance references the DMG, which Inkblot quoted, and the other references page 314 of the MM, which says that Energy Resistance applies each time the creature takes damage of the appropriate type. Since energy resistance is a monster ability, I think that makes the Monster Manual the primary source, so it takes precedence.