Genesis and Layers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Genesis and Layers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
HighDarkTemplar
11-06-07, 03:34 AM Would it be possible using Genesis to make one plane with more than one layer by using multiple manifestations? Like the infinite layers of the abyss as long as you manifests it enough times.

Example:
Manifester manifests Genesis 15 times, spending 15 weeks on the asteral plane. This results in a plane with a radius of 2700 ft. Say I'd want two layers, I'd split it in one layer with 900 ft radius and another layer with 1800 ft radius.

Possible, impossible or ask DM (which means speculation)?
DracoPhoenix
11-06-07, 06:00 AM It may be possible, but remember, Genesis creates a demi-plane. By the "rules of the cosmos" they may not actually be able to support layers.

Admittedly having a dual layer demi-plane could make for a good hiding place.
Just remember that you will then need to add portals between layers as plane shift (and gate?) only drops you at the top layer.
HighDarkTemplar
11-06-07, 07:13 AM Which ends up at discuss it with your DM? Besides, what I'm thinking about is the techinical side of the genesis spell, not how you'd be going from layer to layer.

Thanks for your reply Draco :-)

-HDT
DracoPhoenix
11-06-07, 08:17 AM Well, the spell & power descriptions both explicitly state that multiple instances expand the one demi-plane (layer). That means, assuming the DM allows the layering:

For Parallel layer development:

I'd expect the layering would need to be determined at the initial instance, like setting the other parameters. Remember, the power/spell is cast serially. One after the other.

You would probably not be able to express finite sized layers, as all subsequent instance expands the demi-plane as a whole. Though ratios amounting to the total expansion per week may be permissible.
E.g. It's growth rate is effectively slowed to 1 unit per 3 weeks, but in that time, the top layer expands 2ft in 3wks, while the 2nd layer expands only 1ft in the same time. (The total still being 3ft in 3 weeks)

You would have to express parameters for each layer separately too. Which could be useful - top layer, summers day conditions, 2nd layer cool or winter night. (Insert obligatory agricultural abuse mechanism here)

In any event, I doubt you could decide parallel expansion after the second instance of Genesis as the plane as a whole has already been established.

For Sequential development:

The other option, again DM dependent, could be to have each instance affect one layer at a time:

So casting #1 gets you the top layer of the demi-plane (L1@1u) (L= layer, u = # dempi-plane units)
#2 could get you (L1 @2u) or (L1@1u + L2@1u)
#3 could get you (L1 @3u), (L1@2u + L2 @1u) or (L1@1u + L2@1u + L3@1u)
etc.

On connecting them:

For parallel layers, it may be feasible to identify / create inter layer portals as part of the demi-plane's construction rules, though you may not be able to do a custom portal for each layer. It would probably have to be the same mechanism E.g. saying a command at the center of each layer moves you to the next one.

For sequential layers, each time you set the conditions for each layer as it's created, you could establish access control rules.
E.g. layer (A) can only be accessed from layer (B) via method (C)).

In summary

Any layer development will be at DM discretion - both spells express what happens on subsequent instances.

Parallel development is fire & forget, you set up all the rules at the start and start spamming Genesis. That said, it would also produce the slower growth for the whole plane. Though possibly, due to instance staggering (each at 1wk), sequential will take longer overall.

However, this only impacts on any ground breaking for any post creation development (buildings, vegetation etc)

Sequential development has a finer level of control over each layers size & development but it requires you to effectively create each layer separately.

Btw 15 instances, using the power, it'll cost you 15,000xp or 132,375g for power stones.

Hope this is closer to what you need.
HighDarkTemplar
11-07-07, 03:30 AM I've discussed it with the DM and he agreed with me :-) One genesis= one new 180 ft layer og increase the current one by 180 ft.

Thanks alot for your input, I made him read your post and I think it helped alot :-)

Best Regards
-HDT

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HighDarkTemplar 11-06-07, 03:34 AM	Would it be possible using Genesis to make one plane with more than one layer by using multiple manifestations? Like the infinite layers of the abyss as long as you manifests it enough times. Example: Manifester manifests Genesis 15 times, spending 15 weeks on the asteral plane. This results in a plane with a radius of 2700 ft. Say I'd want two layers, I'd split it in one layer with 900 ft radius and another layer with 1800 ft radius. Possible, impossible or ask DM (which means speculation)?
DracoPhoenix 11-06-07, 06:00 AM	It may be possible, but remember, Genesis creates a demi-plane. By the "rules of the cosmos" they may not actually be able to support layers. Admittedly having a dual layer demi-plane could make for a good hiding place. Just remember that you will then need to add portals between layers as plane shift (and gate?) only drops you at the top layer.
HighDarkTemplar 11-06-07, 07:13 AM	Which ends up at discuss it with your DM? Besides, what I'm thinking about is the techinical side of the genesis spell, not how you'd be going from layer to layer. Thanks for your reply Draco :-) -HDT
DracoPhoenix 11-06-07, 08:17 AM	Well, the spell & power descriptions both explicitly state that multiple instances expand the one demi-plane (layer). That means, assuming the DM allows the layering: For Parallel layer development: I'd expect the layering would need to be determined at the initial instance, like setting the other parameters. Remember, the power/spell is cast serially. One after the other. You would probably not be able to express finite sized layers, as all subsequent instance expands the demi-plane as a whole. Though ratios amounting to the total expansion per week may be permissible. E.g. It's growth rate is effectively slowed to 1 unit per 3 weeks, but in that time, the top layer expands 2ft in 3wks, while the 2nd layer expands only 1ft in the same time. (The total still being 3ft in 3 weeks) You would have to express parameters for each layer separately too. Which could be useful - top layer, summers day conditions, 2nd layer cool or winter night. (Insert obligatory agricultural abuse mechanism here) In any event, I doubt you could decide parallel expansion after the second instance of Genesis as the plane as a whole has already been established. For Sequential development: The other option, again DM dependent, could be to have each instance affect one layer at a time: So casting #1 gets you the top layer of the demi-plane (L1@1u) (L= layer, u = # dempi-plane units) #2 could get you (L1 @2u) or (L1@1u + L2@1u) #3 could get you (L1 @3u), (L1@2u + L2 @1u) or (L1@1u + L2@1u + L3@1u) etc. On connecting them: For parallel layers, it may be feasible to identify / create inter layer portals as part of the demi-plane's construction rules, though you may not be able to do a custom portal for each layer. It would probably have to be the same mechanism E.g. saying a command at the center of each layer moves you to the next one. For sequential layers, each time you set the conditions for each layer as it's created, you could establish access control rules. E.g. layer (A) can only be accessed from layer (B) via method (C)). In summary Any layer development will be at DM discretion - both spells express what happens on subsequent instances. Parallel development is fire & forget, you set up all the rules at the start and start spamming Genesis. That said, it would also produce the slower growth for the whole plane. Though possibly, due to instance staggering (each at 1wk), sequential will take longer overall. However, this only impacts on any ground breaking for any post creation development (buildings, vegetation etc) Sequential development has a finer level of control over each layers size & development but it requires you to effectively create each layer separately. Btw 15 instances, using the power, it'll cost you 15,000xp or 132,375g for power stones. Hope this is closer to what you need.
HighDarkTemplar 11-07-07, 03:30 AM	I've discussed it with the DM and he agreed with me :-) One genesis= one new 180 ft layer og increase the current one by 180 ft. Thanks alot for your input, I made him read your post and I think it helped alot :-) Best Regards -HDT