Post/Author/DateTime	Post
VBakes 03-28-07, 02:12 AM	If you were gonna gestalt a psion with a another class what would it be? And if not a psion then what other psionic class. Im just lookin for ideas, really, thanks.
Tempest Stormwind 03-28-07, 02:17 AM	Psion/Warblade comes to mind. Full base attack, d12 HP, full manifesting, Int-based class features on the Warblade side, access to psionic powers, access to Diamond Mind maneuvers (which include several nice counters that let you replace a saving throw with a Concentration check, and you can expend your focus to take 15 on one of those... and that's just SOME of Diamond Mind), 4+Int skill points from a great list, and excellent base saves (good Fort/Will, get Dex/Int to Reflex). Just pick your powers and discipline accordingly, make sure you focus on Diamond Mind (you can choose a few disciplines, but most people specialize in two or three. Make sure Diamond Mind's one of them; the rest is up to you) and you're gold. That's a pretty standard gestalt, by the way.
Shado 03-28-07, 02:24 AM	...I couldn't say it any better. Ardents and PsyWarriors gestalt with Swordsage real well too... though I think they gain less on the whole than the Psion/Warblade.
Millenia 03-28-07, 02:52 AM	Although Psion/Wizard doesn't gain that much, it's still pretty good for sheer versatility with regards to spells and powers, though actions and feats are still a limiting factor (as well as arcane spell failure).... Psion/Duskblade doesn't seem too bad either, with the Duskblade relying on intelligence for spells.
InkBlot 03-28-07, 02:55 AM	...I couldn't say it any better. Ardents and PsyWarriors gestalt with Swordsage real well too... though I think they gain less on the whole than the Psion/Warblade. The psychic warrior's power list, and some ardent mantles, are so much better for a primary combatant than the psion list that it's not even funny.
Nifft 03-28-07, 10:33 AM	Psion // Warlock -- All day power, and more when you need it. Psion // Binder -- All day power, and more when you need it, and better saves, armor, & other tricks. Psion // Rogue -- Skills!!! Psion // Scout -- As above, plus more durable in combat. And has already been mentioned, Psion // Warblade, wonderful synergy. PsiWar // Swordsage is good, but probably not as good as Cleric // Swordsage, or even Druid // Swordsage (focused on Tiger Claw for flavor). Though actually, Tiger Claw + Claws of the Beast might be fun... hmm. Cheers, -- N PS: I don't like Psion // Wizard, because you have to split your feats, and can't share Metamagic/Metapsionic or Item Creation between your two halves. Unlike a Wizard // Archivist, for example.
MaximusRift 03-28-07, 12:54 PM	Hmmm... Monk/PsyWar would be fun. Soulknife/Fighter if you decide to specialize in bastard sword and you'd be good too. Psion? Depends on which kind. An Egoist/Warblade would be just as good as a Nomad/Rouge in my opinion.
tetebetson 03-28-07, 01:25 PM	If you were gonna gestalt a psion with a another class what would it be? And if not a psion then what other psionic class. Im just lookin for ideas, really, thanks. monk/psi warrior would be good the abbilities match also you coul be a Githzerai, psychic warior/monk +6dex +2wis favourd class monk :)
Zemyla 03-28-07, 01:46 PM	I like ardent//psychic warrior. Why YES, I enjoy having tons of PP available! Not as good as cleric//druid, but then again what is?
carnivore 03-28-07, 02:08 PM	i agree with Tempest Stormwind...except with this alteration: Psion 20 and Monk 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Warblade 15 with Monastic Training(Psion) and Tashalatora.....and Carmondine Monk.....you focus almost Solely on Intelligence extremely strong and Get BAB +19 as well and 9th lvl Manuvers and 9th Level Powers and the best abilities of a 20th lvl Monk on top of all that :D
lears_fool 03-28-07, 06:08 PM	First, something that just meshes really well. . Egoist 20//Totemist 20, there's room for PRCs in there, but the totemist and the more combatant psion work very well together. Then, something that meshes even better (and is possibly the ultimate BBEG) Telepath 10/Thrallherd 10//Beguiler 20 And last, for the win. . Ardent 5/Uncarnate 10/Ardent 5//Swordsage 20 I played this once in a short campaign with some other very well optimized gestalt players. . there was no competition, he was nigh-unkillable and absurdly dangerous. I ended up switching him to something weaker halfway through just so we'd have some party balance.
Kiklio 03-28-07, 08:19 PM	I'm getting ready to play a Psychic Warrior//Swordsage going for Elocator. With Shadow Blade and Weapon Finesse, he only needs to worry about DEX and WIS. The kusari-gama was the last touch needed to make him a ninja. A friend made a Lurk//Warblade build a while back that exploits an absurdly high Jump skill and Tiger Claw madness. Not to mention the free Sneak Attack from Sapphire Nightmare Blade. Now for the weird ones... Ardent//Incarnate looks like a great tank, and you could swap in Totemist or Wilder very easily. Anything with a decent base attack bonus. Psion//Archivist might be easier to pull off than Psion//Wizard. Another potent divine combo is Marksman//Cleric. It's pure WIS that can subsist on a single throwing axe, but instead has a myriad of spells to boost damage potential and evasiveness.
tetebetson 03-28-07, 08:44 PM	i think that a lot of peole have forgotten that gestalt characters canot gain levals in a prestige class:confused:
Tempest Stormwind 03-28-07, 08:54 PM	i think that a lot of peole have forgotten that gestalt characters canot gain levals in a prestige class:confused:http://www.telusplanet.net/~sdupuis/Tempest/readrule.gifA gestalt character can’t combine two prestige classes at any level, although it’s okay to combine a prestige class and a regular class. Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant. Because it’s possible for gestalt characters to qualify for prestige classes earlier than normal, the game master is entirely justified in toughening the prerequisites of a prestige class so it’s available only after 5th level, even for gestalt characters.:nonono:
Artector 03-28-07, 10:13 PM	Actually a Scout//Psion/Elocator could be a ranged powerhouse, with decent manifesting ability.
Grizzled Gryphon 03-28-07, 11:40 PM	I tentatively will add in the Cleric//Psion. I am about to start playing one, and he seems pretty impressive to me.
Mooncalf 03-29-07, 02:24 AM	I'm running a fairly successful Psion//Monk. Sure, it's got MAD, but the combination of unarmed monk and combat-boosting powers (like a half-dozen different AC-boosters, and offensives) look really nice, and they fit together nicely. I might've tried Monk//PsyWar to avoid MAD, but the PsyWar has nowhere near the number of powers and PP I wanted... On prestige classes for gestalts: I rule that for those PrCs that obviously require you to take levels in two or more classes (like Mystic Theurge and Cerebremancer), those levels need to be on the "same side" to avoid the risk of messing up the math. I.e. a Psion 3/Wizard 3//Rogue 6 could take a level of Cerebremancer (and a level of rogue or other base class). A Psion 3//Wizard 3 couldn't; not only would it mean he gets it at much earlier level, but calculating CL/ML could be tricky. What if he'd take a level of Cere and one of Psion? He'd be an effective Psion 5 at lvl 4... that's just cheesy. Of course, other DMs may say otherwise. Oh, and "Gestalts can't take prestige classes"? Wherever did you get that nonsensical idea?
Mesiolan 03-29-07, 12:12 PM	On the Cleric // Psion, I have to agree. Though we don't play gestalt characters, I currently play a psion1/cleric of Pelor3/psion2/psychic theurge3. Except for the BAB, he is a 9th level monster. Full plated tank manifesting energy cones of 60' fire for 9d6+18 HP seven times in a row (DC 21 half) - before patching up the own party with CSW for 3d8+16 HP per casting.
Toxic_Shaman 03-29-07, 06:52 PM	Chameleon is always a nice fit if your DM will allow it, for anything, not just with Psionics. For an unarmed melee Gish: Psychic Warrior or Ardent 20//Feat Rogue 2/Cleric 1/Monk 2/Chameleon10/xxx 5. Take your +6 Attribute boost to WIS. Use your Chameleon spellcasting for buffs like Greater Mighty Wallop and Persistant Divine Power. If you want to go the Psion route, Chameleon provides a boost for any discipline, melee or not. Take your Chameleon +6 Attribute boost to INT to get those save DCs way up there, take the Carmedine Monk Feat to get INT to AC and use your Chameleon spellcasting for utility and buffs, allowing you to save your PPs for manifesting powers.
Doomed_Penguin 03-29-07, 09:23 PM	I like Telepath//Psychic Rogue. Fun stuff, since they share a casting stat and their power point pool. Psychic Rogue//Beguiler is a lot of fun. Though I have to admit, Scout//Nomad is looking pretty cool...
fozzybear 03-30-07, 01:54 PM	I came up this this a while ago, uses many classes/PrC's. 1 Psion/Ranger Dodge, Improve Initiative 2 Psion/Psychic Warrior Exotic Weapon Greathammer(goliath) 3 Psion/Psychic Warrior Weapon Focus Greathammer, Power Attack 4 Psion/Fighter Mobility 5 Psion/Fighter Psionic Dodge, Spring Attack 6 Elocater/Barbarian Psionic Weapon 7 Psion/War Mind 8 Psion/War Mind 9 Psion/War Mind Improve Critical 10 Psion/War Mind 11 Psion/War Mind Psionic Meditation 12 Psion/Psychic Weapon Master Combat Reflexes 13 Psychic Weapon Master/Rogue 14 Psion/Psychic Weapon Master 15 Psychic Weapon Master/Rogue Combat Expertise 16 Psion/Psychic Weapon Master 17 Psychic Weapon Master/Barbarian 18 Psion/Psychic Weapon Master Whirlwind 19 Psychic Weapon Master/Monk 20 Psion/Psychic Weapon Master Deep Impact
Ulihion 03-30-07, 03:25 PM	I am currently in the process of putting together a Telepath // Swordsage/Ardent. The reasoning behind the character is a little tricky to explain, and yes, I need a few too many good ability scores to be entirely comfortable, but so far, it seems to be working out. Swordsage is for martial arts crazy-ness without being lawful, and Ardent for various in-character powers that I either couldn't fit into the telepath progression, or flat out couldn't learn. Superior Unarmed Strike means that, though my BAB won't let me hit all the time, when I do I might as well be holding a bastard sword. (Game is lvl 15: OK, that's a feat and anyone could take it.) Maybe Warblade would also have worked... but my primary disciplines are Diamond Mind and Setting Sun. And no way do I want to burn all available feats on Martial Study. Also in the same party, there will be a Ranger//PsyWar/Slayer, though I know far, far less about how that character's turning out. Ulihion
NiQil 03-30-07, 04:38 PM	One combo that I have had recent fun with is a straight soulknife 20/rogue 20. Not the most powerful class in the world, but it gives the rogue a weapon that is easily hidden, a d10 hd to go with all those skills, a boost to it's Will saves that rogues often struggle with, and lets you really jack your damage output when you can add both Psychic Strike and Sneak Attack onto a Mind Blade attack.
Rhonin the Big 03-31-07, 12:07 AM	In my sig you will find my gestalt resource, there are several great psionic combos in there. My personal favorites are psion//erudite, paladin//soulknife and psychic warrior//druid. All but 2 of them are borderline broken, try to guess which one is not like the other!
DracoPhoenix 04-02-07, 11:47 AM	I guess it comes down to what you want to do with the character. For example, You could go with stuff that synergies really well (see above), pick two classes that cover different areas - but not necessarily work well together. (Barbarian // Wizard) Or even pick one as your "serious" class (party aspect needed) and one because you've always wanted to play it but there never seemed to be the opportunity. For example, I quite like the Incarnum classes and think that they would work well with most things. They run off con, so that gives you +hp, (never bad) and provide 24hr buffs / abilities. I'd quite like to try gestalt Incarnate (optional / fighter (2)) // Soulknife / Illlumine soul. but unfortunately my group doesn't play gestalt :(
feraltibbit 04-02-07, 01:00 PM	If you were gonna gestalt a psion with a another class what would it be? And if not a psion then what other psionic class. Im just lookin for ideas, really, thanks. Psion-Monk or PsyWarr-Monk is always good. As far as a Psion-Wizard is concerned, you've just opened the door for the PrC of Cerebremancer (XPH). Try it out.
The_Basilisk 04-02-07, 01:15 PM	psiwarrior//monk seconded. I would've played one in my last campaign but the DM wasn't familiar with psionics and didnt have time to learn enough about them.
Grizzled Gryphon 04-02-07, 01:17 PM	Either Psion/Monk or PsyWarr/Monk are great for one reason. Hammer. Many other things are nice, too, but an extra D8 of damage on all the Monks attacks is sweet.
myusernameis 04-02-07, 06:51 PM	Personally, I'm fond of the idea of psion/erudite, though psion/warblade sounds like a hoot.
Lycanthromancer 04-03-07, 01:11 PM	You can't gestalt psion and erudite, since the latter is essentially a variant of the former. It'd be nice to have, but I don't think it would work. Of course, a Psion // Wilder/Anarchic Initiate would just be...well...overpowered.
Rhonin the Big 04-04-07, 01:19 PM	You cannot multiclass into a variant, there is no passage disallowing gestalt with class variants.
Lycanthromancer 04-05-07, 12:24 PM	But you can't gestalt the same class twice. For instance, you can't gestalt nomad and egoist. This falls under that particular heading.
lears_fool 04-05-07, 12:52 PM	But you can't gestalt the same class twice. For instance, you can't gestalt nomad and egoist. This falls under that particular heading. I don't see an Erudite as that sort of variant technically. With Egoist and Nomad you're the same class (Psion) with a subset of class features, kind of like a specialist mage or a cleric with his/her domain choices. Placement in the book aside, it truly does function differently enough that it constitutes a completely different class. Mind you, I'm not huge on the Psion//Erudite concept anyway, I'd rather go with Ardent//Erudite if you really needed the power points or else head in some entirely different direction myself.
Lycanthromancer 04-05-07, 12:58 PM	Either way, technically speaking, and RAW, it's a variant. Thus, anything else is houserules. :D
lears_fool 04-05-07, 01:10 PM	Either way, technically speaking, and RAW, it's a variant. Thus, anything else is houserules. :D And where exactly is that even mentioned? I see nothing in the Gestalt section at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm And the only reference to variant multiclassing is in the UA section, and merely says Multiclassing And Variant Classes Multiclassing between variants of the same class is a tricky subject. In cases where a single class offers a variety of paths (such as the totem barbarian or the monk fighting styles), the easiest solution is simply to bar multiclassing between different versions of the same class (just as a character can't multiclass between different versions of specialist wizards). For variants that are wholly separate from the character class—such as the bardic sage or the urban ranger—multiclassing, even into multiple variants of the same class, is probably okay. Identical class features should stack if gained from multiple versions of the same class (except for spellcasting, which is always separate). In any case, only the first version of a favored class is treated as favored; a halfling rogue/wizard who later begins gaining levels in the wilderness rogue variant class can't treat both the rogue and wilderness rogue classes as favored, only the class gained first (in this case, rogue). Under no circumstances does spellcasting ability from multiple classes (even variants of the same class) stack. A character with levels of bard and levels of bardic sage has two separate caster levels and two separate sets of spells per day, even though the classes are very similar.
Rhonin the Big 04-05-07, 07:04 PM	1) Multiclassing into a variant from its original form is banned. Gestalting, however, is not. 2) Nomad and Egoists are not classes, nor are they variants of psion; they are only psions with a different fractional spell list. Just like 2 clerics with 2 different domains are not 2 different classes. The Erudite is built off a completely different system of learning psionics and as such should not be treated as a variant. Besides, the erudite was so badly written nobody knows what it does or how it works from a cursory glance. It took Master Stormwind to point it out for me, thank you :-)
Tempest Stormwind 04-05-07, 07:38 PM	Lear's Fool, did you miss this?To make a 1st-level gestalt character, choose two standard classes. (You can also choose any of the variant classes, though you can’t combine two versions of the same class.) Build your character according to the following guidelines.It's right at the start of the gestalt section. As for the erudite, the fact that its heading clearly shows it's a variant psion makes it pretty clear what it is, no? Conclusion: Psion//Erudite is a forbidden gestalt. No matter what you see, at this point, the rules show that Lycanthromancer is correct.
Grave_Accomplice 04-05-07, 07:46 PM	If you were gonna gestalt a psion with a another class what would it be? And if not a psion then what other psionic class. Im just lookin for ideas, really, thanks. We have a psion/elocator gestalted with an unfettered (Malhavoc press light mobile fighter type). Given that the campaign is very ranged weapons heavy, he's doing very well for a melee specialist.
Rhonin the Big 04-05-07, 09:49 PM	Lear's Fool, did you miss this?It's right at the start of the gestalt section. As for the erudite, the fact that its heading clearly shows it's a variant psion makes it pretty clear what it is, no? Conclusion: Psion//Erudite is a forbidden gestalt. No matter what you see, at this point, the rules show that Lycanthromancer is correct. Thank you :). Now that I know its illegal I'm gonna take it off my gestalt resource.
Grizzled Gryphon 04-05-07, 09:55 PM	Lears Fool, while it technically isn't legal, it does still work. Yes, it is a varient, and yes, that isn't allowed, but Psion and Erudite have enough differences in class features that you can have it as a gestalt option. I am not argueing that it is legal, here, just so you all know. But, I am pretty sure the "can't gestalt two varients of the same class" was meant for things like specialist wizards. As the Erudite and Psion have some glaring differences, it should be fine for this. I would allow it in my games. Not sure why anyone would want to use it, but there it is.
lears_fool 04-05-07, 10:12 PM	Lear's Fool, did you miss this?It's right at the start of the gestalt section. As for the erudite, the fact that its heading clearly shows it's a variant psion makes it pretty clear what it is, no? Conclusion: Psion//Erudite is a forbidden gestalt. No matter what you see, at this point, the rules show that Lycanthromancer is correct. Umm. from the SRD. . To make a 1st-level gestalt character, choose two standard classes. (You can also choose any of the variant classes, though you can’t combine two versions of the same class.) Build your character according to the following guidelines. Note it says 'two VERSIONS of the same class', not two VARIANTS' It states later (as I quoted earlier) criteria under which 'variants' fit and under which they may not. By 'versions' of the same class I read it to mean no wizard/evokers, no telepath/egoists, and the like. .which makes quite a bit of sense. Then, later.. For variants that are wholly separate from the character class—such as the bardic sage or the urban ranger—multiclassing, even into multiple variants of the same class, is probably okay. Identical class features should stack if gained from multiple versions of the same class (except for spellcasting, which is always separate). Though 'how I read' should not be relevant, if that reading was not right, then the above section should be an abberation. There's no way for 'variants' to be universally incompatible without making the later text contradictory Of course, gestalting is a house rule, and one where they state quite clearly there is fuzziness and there should be forethought. There is, however, no logic in banning telepath/erudite while allowing egoist/wilder. Not that I'm a big fan of it, but it should be judged on it's merits and not a misinterpretation of the SRD, especially not one so firm in a section announces it's flexibility.
Ishindri 04-06-07, 05:45 PM	There is, however, no logic in banning telepath/erudite while allowing egoist/wilder. I have to disagree. The wilder is a completely different class, there's no reason why one couldn't gestalt between it and a psion. While there may be some contention on the whole variant/version thing, I tend to think that if you would be banned from multiclassing between them because of variant issues, you are also banned from gestalting them. It seems like a good rule of thumb to me. However, houserule however you want, I'm not stopping you :P As for my pathetic attempt to re-rail the thread, Erudite//Wilder might be cool. You get an immense amount of power points, as well as wild surge on all your powers and a basically unlimited power list. Maybe not the most versatile gestalt, but focusing on what you're good at is nice too.
Grizzled Gryphon 04-06-07, 09:13 PM	Yeah, any of the "primary" manifesters are good together, if you want obxcen amount of power points. A nice add to that is the Ardent. Soulknife//Rogue is fun. "Honest, officer, I didn't kill him. I don't even have a weapon."
lears_fool 04-07-07, 12:52 AM	I have to disagree. The wilder is a completely different class, there's no reason why one couldn't gestalt between it and a psion. I agree While there may be some contention on the whole variant/version thing, I tend to think that if you would be banned from multiclassing between them because of variant issues, you are also banned from gestalting them. It seems like a good rule of thumb to me. However, houserule however you want, I'm not stopping you :P We're houseruling the moment we say 'gestalt' ;) And yes, I agree. I wasn't saying that Psion//Wilder should be banned, rather that it was a violation of common sense to ban Erudite//Psion and allow Erudite//Wilder when Erudite differs from them mechanically notably more than they do from each other. Now, there is something somewhere that says multiclassing multiple instances of the same class is a huge no-no (gestalt or not), but that's for example taking a Egoist/Telepath, wizard/illusionist, and the like. . and that makes complete sense to me. As for my pathetic attempt to re-rail the thread, Erudite//Wilder might be cool. You get an immense amount of power points, as well as wild surge on all your powers and a basically unlimited power list. Maybe not the most versatile gestalt, but focusing on what you're good at is nice too. Well re-railed ;) I actually, if I had to pair two full manifesters, would go Erudite//Ardent. It's a smidge more MAD but you'd get mantle powers and the Ardent's problem is it's painful number of powers selected which the Erudite offsets nicely. Plus you can use the Ardent side for any non-full-manifesting PRCs due to Practiced Manifester synergy, and you can snag the life mantle and practiced manifester to 'surge' well without fear of killing yourself. . and still get those uber-big Astral Constructs out.
RikuKupo 04-12-07, 06:12 PM	I'd 2nd 20 Erudite//20 Ardent, but I haven't used Erudite enough to vouch for it (My DM hates them). However, my 20 Kineticist//20 Ardent I'm currently playing is awesome. With 808 power points, he blasts like crazy with all his energy powers, and with strategic choices of mantles, I also now have astral construct, metamorphosis, that power that minimizes energy damage, and that awesome Mend Wounds power. BTW, I'm the wizard of our party. Me and the druid both cover healing, giving her time to spam her Master of Many Forms + Warshaper enhanced wild shape. But that's just gravy :P You could be an Egoist and take the life mantle, freeing up room for wilder or other classes.
kyeudo 04-12-07, 06:41 PM	I'd suggest Psion/Wilder, just for raw firepower and an endless pool of power points. Just take the educated wilder varient from the Mind's Eye articles and you are the bomb. (Literaly, you could take out entire cities with ease at high levels) Probably been suggested anyway, but I just wanted to put my 2 cp in.
revaar 04-12-07, 07:02 PM	agreeing with kyeudo on this one. with that many power points and wilder abilities, you could nova all day long.
Dragos 04-12-07, 08:14 PM	i personally have played a scout/pswar..with a few levels of warblade here and there..but the scout/psywar worked great without them
Runepriest 04-12-07, 09:27 PM	Soulknife//Fighter. Think about it. Now think about it some more. And even more. etc. My :twocents:
Nessaj 04-16-07, 10:45 AM	Is Psion/Wizard really that bad? I had ideas for a 2nd level Synad Kineticist/Abjurer (Master Specialist), playing with the Synad Multitask. Round 1: Inertial Armor (if it isn't already up)/Shield spell. Throw on Energy Abjuration and you've got resistance 5 all energy and +8 AC in a standard action. Only gets better as you level, getting higher level Abjurative buffs and augmenting your Inertial Armor... Sure, your HP sucks and you're not doing anything for your saves, skills, or attack, but I can see the two classes really rounding each other off with a little effort. Ok, a lot of effort; the first few levels will be deadly. Still...
Racous121 04-16-07, 11:15 PM	I am currently Playing a Half Giant Gestalt. I am 10 Warrior and 9 Psion Nomad. Using the Psionic buffing ability to boost my attacks I hit really well because I am able to full power attack and still be effective when it come to making contact. I also have a lot of High damage powers but most of them are save or nothing. I have also tried a Psion/monk gestalt and that worked well. I like the way Psionics balances with which ever class I choose to play with it. Racous121
InkBlot 04-16-07, 11:35 PM	Has anyone mentioned psywar//crusader? I like the idea of 35 ft. reach (expansion, reach, spiked chain), Iron Guard's Glare, Thicket Of Blades, and Defensive Rebuke. This can be done without gestalt, but it's that much stronger with gestalt. You could be the perfect tank. I just have this image in my head of a huge motherly half-orc slapping away enemies while the rest of the party clings to the hem of her skirt.
Nifft 04-17-07, 12:27 PM	Egoist // Soulknife / Soulbow wouldn't be too terrible. You'd get a very decent BAB by the end, and your skills wouldn't be bad at all. VoP might be interesting. Cheers, -- N