Goliath Psywarrior barbarian [Archive] - Wizards Community

Goliath Psywarrior barbarian [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ToastedAmphibian
09-19-07, 12:20 AM Goliaths have racial substitution levels for the barbarian class in races of stone. One of them makes a goliath into a full fledged large creature when he rages. (He gets a few inches taller and angry). If he then uses and augmented expansion ability. what size does he become? I know that size changes do not normally apply, but due to the wording of the ability i dont think it applies, as it says it dosnt work with powerfull build, even though powerfull build works with all size changign things.

So if A is a size chaning thing
And A works with powerfull build
and B dosnt work with powerfull build
then A=B is false?

Or am i just stupid?
CrimsonDeath
09-19-07, 03:16 AM That doesn't work for two reasons. First, you can't manifest powers while raging. Second, Expansion doesn't stack with other effects that increase your size.

Now, if I remember the Goliath substitution correctly, it doesn't state that your size increases, only that you become Large. So, you could manifest Expansion (augmented to make you Huge), and then Rage. From a strict reading of the rules (if I do indeed remember the wording correctly), when you Rage, your size would be reduced (or, perhaps more precisely, reset) to Large, but you'd retain the Strength bonus (and Dex penalty) from Expansion.
zuul88
09-19-07, 05:55 PM It doesnt Matter. You count as Large to start with, when you manifest Expansion you become Huge(Colassol is augmented.) If you read the powerful build stats you would know that. Dont feel bad about being stupid, I do it all the time.

Respect
Nathan
PhaedrusXY
09-19-07, 06:05 PM Take a look at the Schism + Rage link in my sig. It has several builds made around doing this. You can't normally manifest while raging, but Schism might let you, depending on individual DM interpretation.
CrimsonDeath
09-19-07, 06:53 PM It doesnt Matter. You count as Large to start with, when you manifest Expansion you become Huge(Colassol is augmented.) If you read the powerful build stats you would know that. Dont feel bad about being stupid, I do it all the time.

Respect
Nathan

Take another look at Powerful Build. You're treated as being one size category larger for certain purposes, but you aren't actually Large. A Goliath who manifests Expansion may grapple, trip, bull rush, and sunder like a Gargantuan creature. He may use a Gargantuan weapon. But he has the space and reach of a Huge creature.

And just who were you calling "stupid"?
zuul88
09-20-07, 07:16 AM And just who were you calling "stupid"?

You, since you resemble the comment so well. It was in regards to the OPs comment......anyways. If you manifested up to Huge by augmented Expansion then you would be Gargantuan in everything but reach and space. If you later raged and became Large you wouldnt be "reduced" or "reset," you would simply gain the space and reach of a Gargantuan creature. It stacks with effects that change subject size catergory. Good Call on the rereading of the Powerful Build bit. That was how I deduced how we were both wrong in our original posts.

To the OP sounds like a fun build. Are you gonna focus more on the PsyWar or Barbarian side?

Respect
Nathan
Fafnir
09-20-07, 07:28 AM stupid

I strongly suggest you refrain from name calling, Nathan. CrimsonDeath was only being helpful... and correct, by the way.
jbsaff
09-20-07, 09:59 AM If the Rage substitution does in fact make you Large, instead of the pretend Large that Powerful Build grants, then an augmented Expansion should stack with that to make you up to two sizes larger than Large. Without the substitution that the OP referred to, you would be right Crimson.

Right now, I'm away from the books, so I can't double-check the substitution level. The wording of the sub may have some bearing on when you could manifest Expansion to get the full benefit. Of course, their is still the Raging Manifester issue if the best results would be achieved by manifesting after a rage.
SlanderPanic
09-20-07, 11:44 AM The key text here is, "Multiple effects that increase size do not stack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm)." The goliath barbarian's sub ability increases size. Expansion increases size. The two do not work together. In fact, it may well be counterproductive to try to make this work. I'm AFB at the moment, but doesn't the goliath rage sub ability swap out Powerful Build for becoming Large? An expanded goliath with standard barbarian rage still has Powerful Build. A goliath with the substitution levels loses Powerful Build when he rages.
jbsaff
09-20-07, 11:51 AM /smacks face

Of course, I would get hung up on the exotic and miss the mundane restriction right in front of me. Disregard previous post, I seem to have taken leave of my senses.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ToastedAmphibian 09-19-07, 12:20 AM	Goliaths have racial substitution levels for the barbarian class in races of stone. One of them makes a goliath into a full fledged large creature when he rages. (He gets a few inches taller and angry). If he then uses and augmented expansion ability. what size does he become? I know that size changes do not normally apply, but due to the wording of the ability i dont think it applies, as it says it dosnt work with powerfull build, even though powerfull build works with all size changign things. So if A is a size chaning thing And A works with powerfull build and B dosnt work with powerfull build then A=B is false? Or am i just stupid?
CrimsonDeath 09-19-07, 03:16 AM	That doesn't work for two reasons. First, you can't manifest powers while raging. Second, Expansion doesn't stack with other effects that increase your size. Now, if I remember the Goliath substitution correctly, it doesn't state that your size increases, only that you become Large. So, you could manifest Expansion (augmented to make you Huge), and then Rage. From a strict reading of the rules (if I do indeed remember the wording correctly), when you Rage, your size would be reduced (or, perhaps more precisely, reset) to Large, but you'd retain the Strength bonus (and Dex penalty) from Expansion.
zuul88 09-19-07, 05:55 PM	It doesnt Matter. You count as Large to start with, when you manifest Expansion you become Huge(Colassol is augmented.) If you read the powerful build stats you would know that. Dont feel bad about being stupid, I do it all the time. Respect Nathan
PhaedrusXY 09-19-07, 06:05 PM	Take a look at the Schism + Rage link in my sig. It has several builds made around doing this. You can't normally manifest while raging, but Schism might let you, depending on individual DM interpretation.
CrimsonDeath 09-19-07, 06:53 PM	It doesnt Matter. You count as Large to start with, when you manifest Expansion you become Huge(Colassol is augmented.) If you read the powerful build stats you would know that. Dont feel bad about being stupid, I do it all the time. Respect Nathan Take another look at Powerful Build. You're treated as being one size category larger for certain purposes, but you aren't actually Large. A Goliath who manifests Expansion may grapple, trip, bull rush, and sunder like a Gargantuan creature. He may use a Gargantuan weapon. But he has the space and reach of a Huge creature. And just who were you calling "stupid"?
zuul88 09-20-07, 07:16 AM	And just who were you calling "stupid"? You, since you resemble the comment so well. It was in regards to the OPs comment......anyways. If you manifested up to Huge by augmented Expansion then you would be Gargantuan in everything but reach and space. If you later raged and became Large you wouldnt be "reduced" or "reset," you would simply gain the space and reach of a Gargantuan creature. It stacks with effects that change subject size catergory. Good Call on the rereading of the Powerful Build bit. That was how I deduced how we were both wrong in our original posts. To the OP sounds like a fun build. Are you gonna focus more on the PsyWar or Barbarian side? Respect Nathan
Fafnir 09-20-07, 07:28 AM	stupid I strongly suggest you refrain from name calling, Nathan. CrimsonDeath was only being helpful... and correct, by the way.
jbsaff 09-20-07, 09:59 AM	If the Rage substitution does in fact make you Large, instead of the pretend Large that Powerful Build grants, then an augmented Expansion should stack with that to make you up to two sizes larger than Large. Without the substitution that the OP referred to, you would be right Crimson. Right now, I'm away from the books, so I can't double-check the substitution level. The wording of the sub may have some bearing on when you could manifest Expansion to get the full benefit. Of course, their is still the Raging Manifester issue if the best results would be achieved by manifesting after a rage.
SlanderPanic 09-20-07, 11:44 AM	The key text here is, "Multiple effects that increase size do not stack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm)." The goliath barbarian's sub ability increases size. Expansion increases size. The two do not work together. In fact, it may well be counterproductive to try to make this work. I'm AFB at the moment, but doesn't the goliath rage sub ability swap out Powerful Build for becoming Large? An expanded goliath with standard barbarian rage still has Powerful Build. A goliath with the substitution levels loses Powerful Build when he rages.
jbsaff 09-20-07, 11:51 AM	/smacks face Of course, I would get hung up on the exotic and miss the mundane restriction right in front of me. Disregard previous post, I seem to have taken leave of my senses.