Good idea? / Bad idea? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Good idea? / Bad idea? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
HermitIX
04-22-08, 06:02 PM I would like to hear your thought on a psion who only takes telepath powers.

How playable would this character be?
CrimsonDeath
04-22-08, 07:58 PM The only way you'll be able to fight undead, constructs, or vermin is to go Charm or Dominate something else, and have it fight them for you. You won't be able to directly attack about 1/4 of the creatures in the game. You also won't be able to use your powers against anyone with access to Mind Blank or Personal Mind Blank.

You might want to take at least a couple of non-Telepathy powers, just in case.
AntiDjinn
04-22-08, 08:32 PM It will work about as well as an enchanter deciding to learn only spells of the enchantment/charm school.

No, scratch that, it will work about as well as a general wizard or a sorcerer who decides to take only enchantment/charm spells. The psion is forced to specialize but does not get bonus powers within his specialty. So a telepath who chooses to take only powers of the Telepath discipline or telepathy discipline is limiting himself for no major gain. His powers do not become more powerful, nor does he get additional points or more powers known.

Another way to compare: Consider an Ardent of up to 14th level whose 5 mantles selected so far are: Communication, Corruption and Madness, Mental Power, Pain and Suffering, and Repose. At this point, basically all his class list powers are telepathic. Yes, the character would be fully playable, but consider that compared to a psion of the same level who simply chose to limit his power selections, the Ardent has 5 granted abilities (roughly equivalent to feats), better BAB, d6 for hit points, and proficiency with all types of armor and shields. If said Ardent chooses Deception as his last mantle then he will be well on his way to going 20 character levels using only telepathy (barring a few choices like Concealing Amorpha, which he could simply decline to learn) and will be fully playable.

For a psion, in theory any power of a particular level you select is as good as any other. In practice, it will mean there will be some encounters you will own and others where you sit on the sidelines and take a few shots with your crossbow. Would you enjoy playing such a character?

The only way I would consider it for a telepath would be if the DM would be willing to give me a Flaw for limiting my choices, and if he also introduced a sweet telepathic PrC that had "know no powers of a discipline other than telepathy" as an entry requirement.
AntiDjinn
04-22-08, 11:30 PM To expand on this, people will tell you that if you have only mind-affecting powers you are dead meat in an encounter with opponents who are immune to such. This is only generally true if you are soloing such an encounter and have no chance to simply cut and run. In most cases you will survive because the rest of your party will handle it, but you will have little to contribute.

Taking my arbitrary example of a 14 level character who knows only telepathic powers, imagine the combat is against a group of constructs:

1) Ardent, with mantles given above. He knows 15 powers, all of them useless for this encounter. He may be able to use Correspond to coordinate party activities, and if he took Empathic Transfer (it is not telepathic) he can heal party members. Still, he has a BAB of 10/5, decent AC, and probably a combat item or two. He can do his part in the encounter.

2) Telepath, no powers selected outside of telepathy. He knows 27 powers, all of them useless against these opponents. His BAB is only 7/2, he is not proficient in armor (though the penalties don't really bother him if he is choosign to wear armor), and he doesn't know any powers that boost his AC or hit points. He should probably vacate the area.

While it is possible to build and play character 2, there is no real payoff for doing so other than it just happens to be the character you want to play. Character 2 knows more powers than character 1, but because all their powers are useless in certain situations it will all come down to what they can bring to the table when those situations happen. Even when a problem can be addressed by the type of power you know, you can only use one power at a time (or two with Schism or Quicken Power) so it really doesn't help to have many powers with very similar parameters.
CrimsonDeath
04-23-08, 04:04 AM Now, there are disciplines such that a psion could probably select powers only from that discipline and still be alright. Telepathy probably isn't one of them, though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HermitIX 04-22-08, 06:02 PM	I would like to hear your thought on a psion who only takes telepath powers. How playable would this character be?
CrimsonDeath 04-22-08, 07:58 PM	The only way you'll be able to fight undead, constructs, or vermin is to go Charm or Dominate something else, and have it fight them for you. You won't be able to directly attack about 1/4 of the creatures in the game. You also won't be able to use your powers against anyone with access to Mind Blank or Personal Mind Blank. You might want to take at least a couple of non-Telepathy powers, just in case.
AntiDjinn 04-22-08, 08:32 PM	It will work about as well as an enchanter deciding to learn only spells of the enchantment/charm school. No, scratch that, it will work about as well as a general wizard or a sorcerer who decides to take only enchantment/charm spells. The psion is forced to specialize but does not get bonus powers within his specialty. So a telepath who chooses to take only powers of the Telepath discipline or telepathy discipline is limiting himself for no major gain. His powers do not become more powerful, nor does he get additional points or more powers known. Another way to compare: Consider an Ardent of up to 14th level whose 5 mantles selected so far are: Communication, Corruption and Madness, Mental Power, Pain and Suffering, and Repose. At this point, basically all his class list powers are telepathic. Yes, the character would be fully playable, but consider that compared to a psion of the same level who simply chose to limit his power selections, the Ardent has 5 granted abilities (roughly equivalent to feats), better BAB, d6 for hit points, and proficiency with all types of armor and shields. If said Ardent chooses Deception as his last mantle then he will be well on his way to going 20 character levels using only telepathy (barring a few choices like Concealing Amorpha, which he could simply decline to learn) and will be fully playable. For a psion, in theory any power of a particular level you select is as good as any other. In practice, it will mean there will be some encounters you will own and others where you sit on the sidelines and take a few shots with your crossbow. Would you enjoy playing such a character? The only way I would consider it for a telepath would be if the DM would be willing to give me a Flaw for limiting my choices, and if he also introduced a sweet telepathic PrC that had "know no powers of a discipline other than telepathy" as an entry requirement.
AntiDjinn 04-22-08, 11:30 PM	To expand on this, people will tell you that if you have only mind-affecting powers you are dead meat in an encounter with opponents who are immune to such. This is only generally true if you are soloing such an encounter and have no chance to simply cut and run. In most cases you will survive because the rest of your party will handle it, but you will have little to contribute. Taking my arbitrary example of a 14 level character who knows only telepathic powers, imagine the combat is against a group of constructs: 1) Ardent, with mantles given above. He knows 15 powers, all of them useless for this encounter. He may be able to use Correspond to coordinate party activities, and if he took Empathic Transfer (it is not telepathic) he can heal party members. Still, he has a BAB of 10/5, decent AC, and probably a combat item or two. He can do his part in the encounter. 2) Telepath, no powers selected outside of telepathy. He knows 27 powers, all of them useless against these opponents. His BAB is only 7/2, he is not proficient in armor (though the penalties don't really bother him if he is choosign to wear armor), and he doesn't know any powers that boost his AC or hit points. He should probably vacate the area. While it is possible to build and play character 2, there is no real payoff for doing so other than it just happens to be the character you want to play. Character 2 knows more powers than character 1, but because all their powers are useless in certain situations it will all come down to what they can bring to the table when those situations happen. Even when a problem can be addressed by the type of power you know, you can only use one power at a time (or two with Schism or Quicken Power) so it really doesn't help to have many powers with very similar parameters.
CrimsonDeath 04-23-08, 04:04 AM	Now, there are disciplines such that a psion could probably select powers only from that discipline and still be alright. Telepathy probably isn't one of them, though.