Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dumas_drift 02-15-08, 01:17 PM	So, I am running an all psionics campaign as some of you might know, and I've started looking around for PrCs to allow into the campaign. Since I am using starmetal in my campaign (due to a surplus of meteors) the Green Star Adept class from Complete Arcane to psionics seemed like it could be a good fit. Looking at it, it looks like it would not take a lot to modify this to be a psionic class, but I would like to get some opinions as to whether it would be worth it to do so. The prerequisites for the regular class are: Base Attack Bonus: +4. Decipher Script: 2 ranks. Knowledge (arcane): 8 ranks. Knowledge (architecture & engineering): 2 ranks. Knowledge (geography): 2 ranks. Knowledge (history): 2 ranks. Feat: Combat Casting. 1st level Arcane spell caster. Consume 2 ounces of Starmetal as part of a special mixture that cost 1,000 gp and 1 week to make. Modifications to requirements would be: Knowledge (arcane) ---> Knowledge (psionics) Combat Casting ---> Combat Manifesting 1st level Arcane spell caster ---> 1st level manifester This prestige class offers 5 of 10 spellcasting advancement, but also offers an ability that makes it so that the other five levels count as spellcasting levels. So you end up as a 20th level caster, but have spells as a 15th level caster. On top of that you gain alot of immunities and construct like bonuses, eventually becoming a construct at the 10th level in the class. The abilities that it grants seem like they could be quite useful overall, so I looked at availability. The Knowledge (psionics) requirement keeps every class from getting into it until at least level 7, and the Base Attack Bonus keeps psions out until 9th. So is there anything that anyone sees that would make this a bad idea to give as an option?
forsaken1111 02-15-08, 05:05 PM	I don't understand the reasoning. Classicaly, starmetal has no inherent psionic properties. Perhaps an adaptation for a deepcrystal adept would be more flavor-appropriate for psionics?
StruckingFuggle 02-15-08, 05:24 PM	...Or he could just adapt starmetal to have inherent psionic properties... -- And to answer your question, OP, I for one don't see much in the way wrong with it, but I'm not the best of yardsticks. It could be alright, I guess; but I forget the class. Is it really worth giving up five levels of spellcasting / psionics for, in the end?
archerpwr 02-15-08, 05:36 PM	I wouldn't suggesting offering any version of GSA to your players without at least bumping it up to 8/10 manifesting and keeping the con score. In other discussions I've suggested that the tenth level was suicide. Start from scratch is my suggestion. GSA as written requires extensive houseruling to not be suicide.
forsaken1111 02-15-08, 06:11 PM	...Or he could just adapt starmetal to have inherent psionic properties... -- And to answer your question, OP, I for one don't see much in the way wrong with it, but I'm not the best of yardsticks. It could be alright, I guess; but I forget the class. Is it really worth giving up five levels of spellcasting / psionics for, in the end? Sorry, I suppose I get caught up on fluff. I guess that would be a fine change, and if you did it you could simply change all arcane references to psionic equivalents. Perhaps... Requirements To qualify to become a Green Star adept, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Base Attack Bonus: +4. Skills: Decipher Script 2 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 8 ranks, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) 2 ranks, Knowledge (geography) 2 ranks, knowledge (history) 2 ranks. Feat: Combat Manifestation. Spells or Spell-Like Abilities: Manifester level 1st. Special: Must acquire a piece of starmetal weighing at least 2 ounces, powder it, and consume it by drinking it in a specially prepared infusion. This infusion requires arcane reagents costing 1,000 gp and takes one week to prepare. Obviously change its class skill from spellcraft to psicraft, and Knowledge: Arcana to psionics. Give it 5/10 manifesting progression instead of casting progression... Change Improve Caster Level class ability to instead affect manifester level. Other than that, it looks fine. Its still not a very good class, but you asked about adaptation not improvement. Personally I would alter the flavor to some psionic spin, but thats me.
hogarth 02-15-08, 08:14 PM	...Or he could just adapt starmetal to have inherent psionic properties... -- And to answer your question, OP, I for one don't see much in the way wrong with it, but I'm not the best of yardsticks. It could be alright, I guess; but I forget the class. Is it really worth giving up five levels of spellcasting / psionics for, in the end? I don't think there would be anything wrong with Whatever 5/War Mind 5/Green Star Adept 8 (for instance).
DracoPhoenix 02-15-08, 08:29 PM	I would have thought the Uncarnate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionUncarnate.htm) offered a psi-themed PrC in the line of GSA. Incorporeality provides quite a bit of protection from poisons etc, coupled with an Elan or 'forged starting race, you have immortality. Might be worth looking at what exactly you're trying to offer from the class and see how much of it is fluff vs mechanics.
forsaken1111 02-15-08, 08:38 PM	Creating a Ferroplasmic Initiate version of the class would be more fun for psionics, I think. Ferroplasm is a substance in one of the dreamscarred press books which hardens and takes form when psionic energy is applied.
TheKeyofE 02-15-08, 09:10 PM	Creating a Ferroplasmic Initiate version of the class would be more fun for psionics, I think. Ferroplasm is a substance in one of the dreamscarred press books which hardens and takes form when psionic energy is applied. It was in the 3.0 PsiHB, but dropped in 3.5. DSP used Psionic Revivify on it (although how they got around the "rounds/level" time limit is beyond me).
Lycanthromancer 02-15-08, 10:01 PM	They used my powers revision, of course.
dumas_drift 02-15-08, 10:41 PM	So, the general consensus is that: 1. It's not a very good class, so it would not break the game 2. A quick and dirty conversion would work to make it psionic friendly 3. No one should ever take the 10th level of it 4. It might just be a bad enough class that doing the conversion, even the quick and dirty one is not worth it Ok, I can accept that. I just find myself going through all of my books while looking for PrCs to allow in my campaign. I want to make sure that there are multiple options for the players to choose from as far as PrCs go since most of them are VERY 3.5 experienced, and they tend to demand lots of options, even if they don't plan on using them. I'm using starmetal in my campaign in place of adamantine, for several reasons, but mostly because I am using When the Sky Falls by Malhavoc press but setting it on the continent of Sarlona in Eberron (so we are already using sentira in place of mithral), and the 1d6 damage to outsiders is not too shabby when most of what you are fighting are hideous creatures from the nightmare realm. I was just slightly worried that a PsyWar could potentially break this class since the Green Star Adept is normally limited to arcane classes and only the Duskblade is martial enough to really see much point in taking it for reasons other than flavor.
Grod_The_Giant 02-15-08, 11:54 PM	I was just about to suggest the PsyWar. Anyway, I think it would be fine to just translate arcane to psionic. Although, if your players are so experienced, would it not be simpler to say "anything goes, but I need to approve your build first?"
dumas_drift 02-16-08, 12:12 AM	You would think so, but apparently they suffer from buyers' paralysis as well, and are unable to make decisions unless it is from a list. :weep: Overall, they are a pretty cool group, but some of them are very hung up on "the rules" and must have everything that is approved explicitly spelled out, or they will accuse others of cheating. Oh well, no group is perfect.
hogarth 02-16-08, 06:50 PM	I would have thought the Uncarnate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionUncarnate.htm) offered a psi-themed PrC in the line of GSA. Actually, the Crystal Proselyte from Hyperconscious is another good alternate choice (although neither Crystal Proselyte not Psion Uncarnate is very "gish"-like).
Scion of Coldshard 02-16-08, 08:19 PM	So, if I am understanding properly, starmetal is being used in your game in place of adamantine.. which I take to mean that there is a very rare material that is almost entirely procured randomly and when worked it has special properties similar to adamantine and extra effects vs outsiders? If so, then a special ritual to convert it to 'psionically active' starmetal could be a pretty easy way to go. It could then gain the properties of ferroplasm. If you like I should have some free time tomorrow and could make up a writeup converting the green star adept over to ferroplasm with some flavor and mechanic changes ;)
Orchomenos 02-18-08, 11:08 AM	My first impression is that the Psionic GSA would be more powerful than the Arcane GSA. Just like the Dragon Disciple, it is an arcane casting class pointing toward melee; in other terms, you take two very different things (arcane + melee), and you make something original and fair with it. OTOH, psionic + melee is NOT as mutually exclusive as arcane + melee. You can Manifest with no problems in Full Plate and Tower Shield - some Psychic Warrior builds are based on that. However, I'm not really up-to-date with neither Psionic or Prestige Classes, so I don't know if a Psionic GSA will be more or less powerful than other psionic (prestige) classes...