Half-Giant Stomp? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Half-Giant Stomp? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
slythero
03-20-07, 02:25 PM I've been trying to figure out how exactly the DC for this ability is based.

Strictly speaking, as a Psi-Like Ability the DC should be 10 + 1 + Cha modifier. I have two problems with this:
One, this essentially locks the DC in at 10 for my character, which is pretty easy to pass at lower levels and damn near worthless if you're fighting anything with a CR over 5 or so. The racial ability doesn't scale with the character level, and essentially becomes dead weight.
Two, the Half-Giant Thunderer feat from Complete Psionics. The feat allows you to use your full HD (instead of 1/2) as the manifester level of Stomp. The problem is that Stomp has no level dependent effects, making the feat literally pointless (unless you really want to overcome some sort of resistance...) Why would Wizards even print a feat that worthless?

I get the impression that the DC was intended to be calculated as a supernatural ability (10 + 1/2 HD + Cha), which would allow the ability to scale nicely with levels, but I can't find any errata or rules to support this.

Am I overlooking something, or is this just a poorly implimented ability?
Ovistavin
03-20-07, 02:48 PM The Stomp psi-like ability is fully augmented up to the Half-Giants manifester level. So a 10th level Half-Giants Stomp ability would do 5d4 non-lethal damage (10d4 with the Thunderer feat). Not much better since the DC usually sucks.
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-20-07, 08:54 PM The Stomp psi-like ability is fully augmented up to the Half-Giants manifester level. So a 10th level Half-Giants Stomp ability would do 5d4 non-lethal damage (10d4 with the Thunderer feat). Not much better since the DC usually sucks.

Yup. Stomp scales its save DC and the damage dealt, so it's very good against opponents with poor Reflex saves, making the half-giant quite potent against other melee-oriented characters. It works best when used to disable a large number of weak enemies, or as a method for quickly clearing an escape route when being swarmed.
AntiDjinn
03-20-07, 09:36 PM Looking just at the damage, the Stomp racial ability is not all that impressive. Your effective ML is half your character level (and you are a +1 LA race). So a level 10 half giant can do 5d4 non-lethal damage once per day. CR 11 encounters are unlikely to be impressed; it will generally only KO opponents far below your CR.

The feat Half-Giant Thunderer makes your effective ML equal to your character level, fully double the base racial ability. It sounds impressive, but it isn't. By the time you are level 19 (your party is 20 and so is the average CR of your encounters) you can do 19d4 of non-lethal damage. The problem is, but that level the number of opponents who can fly or otherwise avoid contact with the ground, or who have great reflex saves, or who simply don't take non-lethal damage, is going to be significant.

Where this racial ability can come through for you is not the damage, but the ability to leave opponents prone. If you have a reach weapon and/or have used Expansion then you probably threaten the area. If you knock someone prone you force them to make some choices: Stay down and take the penalties for fighting prone or attempt to get up and trigger an AoO for standing in a threatened area.

If your DM OK's it, Stomp is also a good way to bring opponents using Up the Walls, Spider Climb, or similar, down to your level (and take falling damage). Just apply it to a wall when that wall is acting as a floor for your target.
slythero
03-20-07, 11:56 PM Yup. Stomp scales its save DC and the damage dealt, so it's very good against opponents with poor Reflex saves, making the half-giant quite potent against other melee-oriented characters. It works best when used to disable a large number of weak enemies, or as a method for quickly clearing an escape route when being swarmed.

That's what I don't understand; how does the save DC scale with the character?

I know that the damage is worthless. Stomp is used as an AoE Trip, not a damage dealer. My problem with it as a racial is that even against low-reflex classes, it will almost never succeed at mid - high levels. Is there some sort of scaling mechanism built-in, other than taking a feat or increasing my Cha?
InkBlot
03-21-07, 12:07 AM The save DC of stomp does not scale. The half-giant's psilike stomp ability is worthless after a few levels, even against opponents with poor reflex saves. The feats are even more worthless. Complete Psionics sucks.
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-21-07, 01:39 AM The save DC of stomp does not scale. The half-giant's psilike stomp ability is worthless after a few levels, even against opponents with poor reflex saves. The feats are even more worthless. Complete Psionics sucks.

Eek! My mistake, didn't notice that one. Well, there are several powers that do not scale their save DCs when they should, and some that scale when they shouldn't. Stomp is one of them. :P

It's a decent racial ability at lower levels, but at higher levels it's eclipsed by powerful build. Yeah, that's about it.
SlanderPanic
03-21-07, 01:24 PM In a recent game, our half-giant tried to stomp my 14th-level rogue while in melee range of said rogue and forgetting that psi-likes provoke AoOs. Big mistake.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
slythero 03-20-07, 02:25 PM	I've been trying to figure out how exactly the DC for this ability is based. Strictly speaking, as a Psi-Like Ability the DC should be 10 + 1 + Cha modifier. I have two problems with this: One, this essentially locks the DC in at 10 for my character, which is pretty easy to pass at lower levels and damn near worthless if you're fighting anything with a CR over 5 or so. The racial ability doesn't scale with the character level, and essentially becomes dead weight. Two, the Half-Giant Thunderer feat from Complete Psionics. The feat allows you to use your full HD (instead of 1/2) as the manifester level of Stomp. The problem is that Stomp has no level dependent effects, making the feat literally pointless (unless you really want to overcome some sort of resistance...) Why would Wizards even print a feat that worthless? I get the impression that the DC was intended to be calculated as a supernatural ability (10 + 1/2 HD + Cha), which would allow the ability to scale nicely with levels, but I can't find any errata or rules to support this. Am I overlooking something, or is this just a poorly implimented ability?
Ovistavin 03-20-07, 02:48 PM	The Stomp psi-like ability is fully augmented up to the Half-Giants manifester level. So a 10th level Half-Giants Stomp ability would do 5d4 non-lethal damage (10d4 with the Thunderer feat). Not much better since the DC usually sucks.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-20-07, 08:54 PM	The Stomp psi-like ability is fully augmented up to the Half-Giants manifester level. So a 10th level Half-Giants Stomp ability would do 5d4 non-lethal damage (10d4 with the Thunderer feat). Not much better since the DC usually sucks. Yup. Stomp scales its save DC and the damage dealt, so it's very good against opponents with poor Reflex saves, making the half-giant quite potent against other melee-oriented characters. It works best when used to disable a large number of weak enemies, or as a method for quickly clearing an escape route when being swarmed.
AntiDjinn 03-20-07, 09:36 PM	Looking just at the damage, the Stomp racial ability is not all that impressive. Your effective ML is half your character level (and you are a +1 LA race). So a level 10 half giant can do 5d4 non-lethal damage once per day. CR 11 encounters are unlikely to be impressed; it will generally only KO opponents far below your CR. The feat Half-Giant Thunderer makes your effective ML equal to your character level, fully double the base racial ability. It sounds impressive, but it isn't. By the time you are level 19 (your party is 20 and so is the average CR of your encounters) you can do 19d4 of non-lethal damage. The problem is, but that level the number of opponents who can fly or otherwise avoid contact with the ground, or who have great reflex saves, or who simply don't take non-lethal damage, is going to be significant. Where this racial ability can come through for you is not the damage, but the ability to leave opponents prone. If you have a reach weapon and/or have used Expansion then you probably threaten the area. If you knock someone prone you force them to make some choices: Stay down and take the penalties for fighting prone or attempt to get up and trigger an AoO for standing in a threatened area. If your DM OK's it, Stomp is also a good way to bring opponents using Up the Walls, Spider Climb, or similar, down to your level (and take falling damage). Just apply it to a wall when that wall is acting as a floor for your target.
slythero 03-20-07, 11:56 PM	Yup. Stomp scales its save DC and the damage dealt, so it's very good against opponents with poor Reflex saves, making the half-giant quite potent against other melee-oriented characters. It works best when used to disable a large number of weak enemies, or as a method for quickly clearing an escape route when being swarmed. That's what I don't understand; how does the save DC scale with the character? I know that the damage is worthless. Stomp is used as an AoE Trip, not a damage dealer. My problem with it as a racial is that even against low-reflex classes, it will almost never succeed at mid - high levels. Is there some sort of scaling mechanism built-in, other than taking a feat or increasing my Cha?
InkBlot 03-21-07, 12:07 AM	The save DC of stomp does not scale. The half-giant's psilike stomp ability is worthless after a few levels, even against opponents with poor reflex saves. The feats are even more worthless. Complete Psionics sucks.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-21-07, 01:39 AM	The save DC of stomp does not scale. The half-giant's psilike stomp ability is worthless after a few levels, even against opponents with poor reflex saves. The feats are even more worthless. Complete Psionics sucks. Eek! My mistake, didn't notice that one. Well, there are several powers that do not scale their save DCs when they should, and some that scale when they shouldn't. Stomp is one of them. :P It's a decent racial ability at lower levels, but at higher levels it's eclipsed by powerful build. Yeah, that's about it.
SlanderPanic 03-21-07, 01:24 PM	In a recent game, our half-giant tried to stomp my 14th-level rogue while in melee range of said rogue and forgetting that psi-likes provoke AoOs. Big mistake.