Help me revamp my 4th level psion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help me revamp my 4th level psion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
hovnarr
12-06-07, 12:08 PM I was playing this 4th level psion in an on-line campaign when the sheet hosting service I used crashed. Instead of trying to remake it from memory best I could, the DM agreed to a Psychic Reformation service a.s.a.p. game-wise.

When I joined, the party needed a healer, thus I choose Egoist. Now we're 4 players, with a cleric, rogue and druid being the other ones, so it would be better for me to emulate an arcane caster than a divine one. Other party members have summoning covered, so blasting seems like the obvious choice at this level. Thus, I'm thinking my revamped psion will be a Kineticist instead (OK with DM to change discipline). Other possibilities include Shaper for ecto cocoon and Personal Construct expanded feature when I hit 5th level, or Telepath to get more social powers.

All have their strengths, but I think a kineticist would provide most mileage at this point. Here's a suggestion:

HUMAN KINETICIST 4
Level 1 powers known
*Vigor (general defense)
*Grease (cheap support for front-liners, escape grapple)
*Call to Mind (with 1 rank in most Knowledge skill, this is good utility)
*Attraction (charm substitute when dealing with NPCs)
*Control Object (source of cheap, minor physical damage, supports rogue too)
Level 2 powers known
*Energy Missile (principle form of attack)
*Levitate (this has been very, very useful during game play)
*Control Sound (pawned one wizard with this, also utility uses)
*Detect Hostile Intent (avoid surprise, discern direction to concealed targets etc.)

I'm also about to hit 5th level soon, at which point I'll be picking up:
*Time Hop (offense, defense and most of all utility)
*Dispel Psionics (because spontaneous dispelling until it works, is good)

FEATS:
*Psionic Body
*Psicrystal Affinity
- The rest is still uncertain. Suggestions? I'm seriously considering Psionic Talent because I pop PP like candy.

EQUIPMENT
*Some nifty items like continual light item, MW concentration item, plus dorjes with a few charges of concussion blast (against incorporeal) and matter agitation (against swarms) etc.
PurpleRain
12-06-07, 01:30 PM you could use this pc generator. http://www.pathguy.com/cg35.htm
PurpleRain
12-06-07, 01:31 PM btw what site do you use?
hovnarr
12-06-07, 02:16 PM Spiffy little tool, but psions are not among the class options sadly.

I use Land of the Mystic Feys (http://p066.ezboard.com/blandofthemysticfeys).
hovnarr
12-06-07, 03:14 PM Actually, this will be a 5th level character once the present encounter is finished so the DM told me to assume 5th level when remaking the sheet.

This puts the situation in another light! Most importantly EK: Energy Missiles is now available, meaning Kineticist is not as necessary as before.

I know that I definetely want Touchsight. That only leaves room for 1 more power, and both Dispel Psionics and Time Hop are strong candidates. Is Ectoplasmic Coccon stronger than both of these? Hard to say. I'd probably want to cover dispelling before increasing power/utility.

Gaah, still don't know which discipline to take. Kineticist, Shaper or Telepath. In fact, even Seer (the level 2 powers) and Nomad (Dimension Swap - get allies out of tight spots) have their uses.
PhaedrusXY
12-06-07, 05:40 PM I love my shaper. A little blasting power is the only thing I feel he is lacking. EK: Energy Missile would take care of that somewhat, but sometimes you just need a Fireball (our party has no wizard/sorc).
hovnarr
12-06-07, 06:02 PM Yeah, but you play a warforged don't you? Also, we have one druid and one cleric with augment summoning, so adding threats to the board is NOT something that needs fixing.

I've basically narrowed it down to three choices, and all will borrow elements from each other anyway so it's a question of focus:

*Seer
*Telepath
*Kineticist

Right now, Seer seems best with EK: Energy Missile and possibly EK: Charm.

I'll probably be using the Burrowing Power/Clairvoyant Sense combo regardless of discipline. Seer seems to have the best skills though. Telepath are even better but I can't fit both Missile and Sense in a telepath...

EDIT: Oh, and it's mostly a city based campaign, so Missiles >> Fireball 95% of the time.
PhaedrusXY
12-06-07, 06:04 PM Yeah, I play a warforged. Hmm... you know, Energy Cone isn't that bad. In the game we're in, we seem to frequently face large numbers of enemies (>10) at once. Every time we do, I think "I should have played a wizard". :D

In reality, I think I wouldn't be anymore effective overall. I just think it is fun to envelop enemy hordes in large balls of firey death. :P
hovnarr
12-06-07, 06:21 PM True, true. But with only 2 level 3 slots, it's tough. I don't think there's anything in a discipline worth sacrificing Touchsight and Dispel for. And few can compete with Time Hop, which would be my third pick. If I'd go with a kineticist, cone at level 6 seems right. Energy wall is what I usually put there unless I go with shaper and cocoon.
PhaedrusXY
12-06-07, 06:27 PM You could let the cleric handle Dispel. With all the silly ways for them to boost their caster level, he/she could probably be better at it, anyway.
hovnarr
12-06-07, 07:40 PM There's one problem with that theory
a) The cleric must have it prepared. And frankly, it sucks to always prepare dispel magic "just in case". Yet, once you need it, it's probably one of the most important effects to be able to produce immediately. Except perhaps Protection from [alignment] and See Invisibility (or similar, such as Touchsight).
b) So, the cleric did prepare it, rolled - and failed! Uhm - recast it? Nope, had only prepared one, so, there ya go.

In my experience, dispelling is a dirty job but a psion's gotta do it. Or a high level sorceror with slots to spare, or a spontaneous divine caster if you have those around.

Besides, think of marginal returns... what's more important: Having or not having a dispel at hand at all times, or having an offensive effect (Energy Cone, Ecto Cocoon) that's only slightly better at certain occasions than level 1 (astral construct, charm) or level 2 (energy missile) powers that you already have?

I won't make compromises with my level 3 slots I tell you! :D But I confess to not quite having figured out the best combination of discipline, power selection and EK feats yet. Blasting, "face" and reconaissance all needs covering, within a human, 5th level psion frame.
hovnarr
12-08-07, 06:48 AM Alright, I've decided to go with a Seer. Seems to be the best discipline for a 5th level build, over all. Lemme know what you think:

FEATS: Psionic Body (human), Psicrystal Affinity (lvl 1 bonus), Burrowing Power (level 1), EK: Psionic Charm (level 3), EK: Energy Missile (level 5).

Offense
[EK] Psionic Charm (also has utility uses)
[EK] Energy Missile (when charm is ineffective)
[L1] Matter Agitation (preferably burrowing while combined with Clairvoyant Sense)

Buff and Defense
[L1] Vigor
[L1] Precognition (and utility uses with skills)
[L2] Levitate (utility too)

Debuff and Counter-Measures
[L1] Grease
[L3] Touchsight
[L3] Dispel Psionics

Utility and Reconnaissance
[L2] Clairvoyant Sense
[L2] Read Object
[L1] Call to Mind
[L2] Tongues (also needed to ensure that Charm is effective)
[item] Mage Hand
[item] Continual Light

Main equipment will be mithril chain shirt, heavy darkwood shield, headband of intellect, 1000 gp stuff (+1 AC enhancers, +1 cloak of protection), continual light pebble, hand of the mage, and some nifty limited use items.
Lycanthromancer
12-08-07, 11:34 AM There's one problem with that theory
a) The cleric must have it prepared. And frankly, it sucks to always prepare dispel magic "just in case". Yet, once you need it, it's probably one of the most important effects to be able to produce immediately. Except perhaps Protection from [alignment] and See Invisibility (or similar, such as Touchsight).
b) So, the cleric did prepare it, rolled - and failed! Uhm - recast it? Nope, had only prepared one, so, there ya go.

In my experience, dispelling is a dirty job but a psion's gotta do it. Or a high level sorceror with slots to spare, or a spontaneous divine caster if you have those around.

Besides, think of marginal returns... what's more important: Having or not having a dispel at hand at all times, or having an offensive effect (Energy Cone, Ecto Cocoon) that's only slightly better at certain occasions than level 1 (astral construct, charm) or level 2 (energy missile) powers that you already have?

I won't make compromises with my level 3 slots I tell you! :D But I confess to not quite having figured out the best combination of discipline, power selection and EK feats yet. Blasting, "face" and reconaissance all needs covering, within a human, 5th level psion frame.My answer for dispelling? Partially-used wands (ie, cheaper than scrolls).
hovnarr
12-08-07, 11:42 AM My answer for dispelling? Partially-used wands (ie, cheaper than scrolls).

That's not a bad idea if you can chunk it. Also, if you have gold to spare, you can buy CL 10 dispel wands (twice the price though, but may be cheaper in the long run since each charge is more likely to be effective). Too expensive for my taste though.
Lycanthromancer
12-08-07, 11:52 AM I suppose you could get power stones of dispel psionics, using your own power points to manifest it (uses your augmentation, but still wipes the stone).

Or, you could use the dorje feat from CPsi that allows you to buff your dorje powers with +4 pp.
hovnarr
12-08-07, 12:34 PM Sure, I mean why do it the easy way and pick up the power when you can do it the hard way? I really don't think Dispel Psionics is a waste of a power learned in a 3rd slot. Far from it. There are many other level 3 powers that work well in few-charge dorjes or stones, but dispel is one I'd prefer to have "on the inside" hehe. Btw - how did you find the final power selection above? I'm discussing with the DM if he thinks I'll get more mileage out of Object Reading or Sensitivity to P.I. since I don't really want to fit them both. Reading can be had in gloves for 3k too, but that's a bit expensive for me right now.
AntiDjinn
12-08-07, 03:53 PM Just because your party has two healers doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't play an egoist; they bring more to the table than just healing (and aren't all that great at healing others at lower levels).

It looks like your party lacks a tank, so consider a psychic warrior.

If you want to be the party blaster then consider a shaper. The utility powers will help out more often than you think and they can also dish out direct damage. Astral Construct can help a small party in so many ways, including standing in for that tank you lack. If a heavy object happens to be blocking the party's way, you might think Telekinetic Force is the best choice, but look at the Str scores of astral constructs manifest at the same point total; they can actually lift more.

If your DM is using 3rd party then consider the Marksman from UTP since your party also lacks a ranged combat specialist.
hovnarr
12-08-07, 08:09 PM Sorry, it still has to be my old psion, hehe. I can just choose a new discipline and reform stuff. And I think the above build will bring lots more to the table than the old egoist did.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hovnarr 12-06-07, 12:08 PM	I was playing this 4th level psion in an on-line campaign when the sheet hosting service I used crashed. Instead of trying to remake it from memory best I could, the DM agreed to a Psychic Reformation service a.s.a.p. game-wise. When I joined, the party needed a healer, thus I choose Egoist. Now we're 4 players, with a cleric, rogue and druid being the other ones, so it would be better for me to emulate an arcane caster than a divine one. Other party members have summoning covered, so blasting seems like the obvious choice at this level. Thus, I'm thinking my revamped psion will be a Kineticist instead (OK with DM to change discipline). Other possibilities include Shaper for ecto cocoon and Personal Construct expanded feature when I hit 5th level, or Telepath to get more social powers. All have their strengths, but I think a kineticist would provide most mileage at this point. Here's a suggestion: HUMAN KINETICIST 4 Level 1 powers known Vigor (general defense) Grease (cheap support for front-liners, escape grapple) Call to Mind (with 1 rank in most Knowledge skill, this is good utility) Attraction (charm substitute when dealing with NPCs) Control Object (source of cheap, minor physical damage, supports rogue too) Level 2 powers known Energy Missile (principle form of attack) Levitate (this has been very, very useful during game play) Control Sound (pawned one wizard with this, also utility uses) Detect Hostile Intent (avoid surprise, discern direction to concealed targets etc.) I'm also about to hit 5th level soon, at which point I'll be picking up: Time Hop (offense, defense and most of all utility) Dispel Psionics (because spontaneous dispelling until it works, is good) FEATS: Psionic Body Psicrystal Affinity - The rest is still uncertain. Suggestions? I'm seriously considering Psionic Talent because I pop PP like candy. EQUIPMENT Some nifty items like continual light item, MW concentration item, plus dorjes with a few charges of concussion blast (against incorporeal) and matter agitation (against swarms) etc.
PurpleRain 12-06-07, 01:30 PM	you could use this pc generator. http://www.pathguy.com/cg35.htm
PurpleRain 12-06-07, 01:31 PM	btw what site do you use?
hovnarr 12-06-07, 02:16 PM	Spiffy little tool, but psions are not among the class options sadly. I use Land of the Mystic Feys (http://p066.ezboard.com/blandofthemysticfeys).
hovnarr 12-06-07, 03:14 PM	Actually, this will be a 5th level character once the present encounter is finished so the DM told me to assume 5th level when remaking the sheet. This puts the situation in another light! Most importantly EK: Energy Missiles is now available, meaning Kineticist is not as necessary as before. I know that I definetely want Touchsight. That only leaves room for 1 more power, and both Dispel Psionics and Time Hop are strong candidates. Is Ectoplasmic Coccon stronger than both of these? Hard to say. I'd probably want to cover dispelling before increasing power/utility. Gaah, still don't know which discipline to take. Kineticist, Shaper or Telepath. In fact, even Seer (the level 2 powers) and Nomad (Dimension Swap - get allies out of tight spots) have their uses.
PhaedrusXY 12-06-07, 05:40 PM	I love my shaper. A little blasting power is the only thing I feel he is lacking. EK: Energy Missile would take care of that somewhat, but sometimes you just need a Fireball (our party has no wizard/sorc).
hovnarr 12-06-07, 06:02 PM	Yeah, but you play a warforged don't you? Also, we have one druid and one cleric with augment summoning, so adding threats to the board is NOT something that needs fixing. I've basically narrowed it down to three choices, and all will borrow elements from each other anyway so it's a question of focus: Seer Telepath *Kineticist Right now, Seer seems best with EK: Energy Missile and possibly EK: Charm. I'll probably be using the Burrowing Power/Clairvoyant Sense combo regardless of discipline. Seer seems to have the best skills though. Telepath are even better but I can't fit both Missile and Sense in a telepath... EDIT: Oh, and it's mostly a city based campaign, so Missiles >> Fireball 95% of the time.
PhaedrusXY 12-06-07, 06:04 PM	Yeah, I play a warforged. Hmm... you know, Energy Cone isn't that bad. In the game we're in, we seem to frequently face large numbers of enemies (>10) at once. Every time we do, I think "I should have played a wizard". :D In reality, I think I wouldn't be anymore effective overall. I just think it is fun to envelop enemy hordes in large balls of firey death. :P
hovnarr 12-06-07, 06:21 PM	True, true. But with only 2 level 3 slots, it's tough. I don't think there's anything in a discipline worth sacrificing Touchsight and Dispel for. And few can compete with Time Hop, which would be my third pick. If I'd go with a kineticist, cone at level 6 seems right. Energy wall is what I usually put there unless I go with shaper and cocoon.
PhaedrusXY 12-06-07, 06:27 PM	You could let the cleric handle Dispel. With all the silly ways for them to boost their caster level, he/she could probably be better at it, anyway.
hovnarr 12-06-07, 07:40 PM	There's one problem with that theory a) The cleric must have it prepared. And frankly, it sucks to always prepare dispel magic "just in case". Yet, once you need it, it's probably one of the most important effects to be able to produce immediately. Except perhaps Protection from [alignment] and See Invisibility (or similar, such as Touchsight). b) So, the cleric did prepare it, rolled - and failed! Uhm - recast it? Nope, had only prepared one, so, there ya go. In my experience, dispelling is a dirty job but a psion's gotta do it. Or a high level sorceror with slots to spare, or a spontaneous divine caster if you have those around. Besides, think of marginal returns... what's more important: Having or not having a dispel at hand at all times, or having an offensive effect (Energy Cone, Ecto Cocoon) that's only slightly better at certain occasions than level 1 (astral construct, charm) or level 2 (energy missile) powers that you already have? I won't make compromises with my level 3 slots I tell you! :D But I confess to not quite having figured out the best combination of discipline, power selection and EK feats yet. Blasting, "face" and reconaissance all needs covering, within a human, 5th level psion frame.
hovnarr 12-08-07, 06:48 AM	Alright, I've decided to go with a Seer. Seems to be the best discipline for a 5th level build, over all. Lemme know what you think: FEATS: Psionic Body (human), Psicrystal Affinity (lvl 1 bonus), Burrowing Power (level 1), EK: Psionic Charm (level 3), EK: Energy Missile (level 5). Offense [EK] Psionic Charm (also has utility uses) [EK] Energy Missile (when charm is ineffective) [L1] Matter Agitation (preferably burrowing while combined with Clairvoyant Sense) Buff and Defense [L1] Vigor [L1] Precognition (and utility uses with skills) [L2] Levitate (utility too) Debuff and Counter-Measures [L1] Grease [L3] Touchsight [L3] Dispel Psionics Utility and Reconnaissance [L2] Clairvoyant Sense [L2] Read Object [L1] Call to Mind [L2] Tongues (also needed to ensure that Charm is effective) [item] Mage Hand [item] Continual Light Main equipment will be mithril chain shirt, heavy darkwood shield, headband of intellect, 1000 gp stuff (+1 AC enhancers, +1 cloak of protection), continual light pebble, hand of the mage, and some nifty limited use items.
Lycanthromancer 12-08-07, 11:34 AM	There's one problem with that theory a) The cleric must have it prepared. And frankly, it sucks to always prepare dispel magic "just in case". Yet, once you need it, it's probably one of the most important effects to be able to produce immediately. Except perhaps Protection from [alignment] and See Invisibility (or similar, such as Touchsight). b) So, the cleric did prepare it, rolled - and failed! Uhm - recast it? Nope, had only prepared one, so, there ya go. In my experience, dispelling is a dirty job but a psion's gotta do it. Or a high level sorceror with slots to spare, or a spontaneous divine caster if you have those around. Besides, think of marginal returns... what's more important: Having or not having a dispel at hand at all times, or having an offensive effect (Energy Cone, Ecto Cocoon) that's only slightly better at certain occasions than level 1 (astral construct, charm) or level 2 (energy missile) powers that you already have? I won't make compromises with my level 3 slots I tell you! :D But I confess to not quite having figured out the best combination of discipline, power selection and EK feats yet. Blasting, "face" and reconaissance all needs covering, within a human, 5th level psion frame.My answer for dispelling? Partially-used wands (ie, cheaper than scrolls).
hovnarr 12-08-07, 11:42 AM	My answer for dispelling? Partially-used wands (ie, cheaper than scrolls). That's not a bad idea if you can chunk it. Also, if you have gold to spare, you can buy CL 10 dispel wands (twice the price though, but may be cheaper in the long run since each charge is more likely to be effective). Too expensive for my taste though.
Lycanthromancer 12-08-07, 11:52 AM	I suppose you could get power stones of dispel psionics, using your own power points to manifest it (uses your augmentation, but still wipes the stone). Or, you could use the dorje feat from CPsi that allows you to buff your dorje powers with +4 pp.
hovnarr 12-08-07, 12:34 PM	Sure, I mean why do it the easy way and pick up the power when you can do it the hard way? I really don't think Dispel Psionics is a waste of a power learned in a 3rd slot. Far from it. There are many other level 3 powers that work well in few-charge dorjes or stones, but dispel is one I'd prefer to have "on the inside" hehe. Btw - how did you find the final power selection above? I'm discussing with the DM if he thinks I'll get more mileage out of Object Reading or Sensitivity to P.I. since I don't really want to fit them both. Reading can be had in gloves for 3k too, but that's a bit expensive for me right now.
AntiDjinn 12-08-07, 03:53 PM	Just because your party has two healers doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't play an egoist; they bring more to the table than just healing (and aren't all that great at healing others at lower levels). It looks like your party lacks a tank, so consider a psychic warrior. If you want to be the party blaster then consider a shaper. The utility powers will help out more often than you think and they can also dish out direct damage. Astral Construct can help a small party in so many ways, including standing in for that tank you lack. If a heavy object happens to be blocking the party's way, you might think Telekinetic Force is the best choice, but look at the Str scores of astral constructs manifest at the same point total; they can actually lift more. If your DM is using 3rd party then consider the Marksman from UTP since your party also lacks a ranged combat specialist.
hovnarr 12-08-07, 08:09 PM	Sorry, it still has to be my old psion, hehe. I can just choose a new discipline and reform stuff. And I think the above build will bring lots more to the table than the old egoist did.