Post/Author/DateTime	Post
darklogic 04-27-07, 11:41 PM	I have a friend who wants to run a SW d20 game. As in, he's bent on it, as in, none of us can seem to get him to see the virtues of playing in any other d20 setting... like Eberron or something. In almost every campaign thus far, I've played something with at least some supernatural feel. In OA I played a Mahou Tsukai, and even got to implement rules from HoH and UA to flesh out the character some. In Eberron, let's just say I'm Kalashtar crazy. And I even have a favorite Illithid character who despite having level adjustment I managed to forge into a formidable character in a FR: Underdark campaign. I even have a male channeler in WoT d20, in spite of how freaky crazy they get and the headaches that causes a character... and I even rped him into being proficient in the Great Game. However, when I look as the options in SW, I just say yuck. I'm frankly not interrested in such an awkward skill sucking system that renders me lifeless and saps away at my ability scores for doing anything a level one to five wizards would think of doing to solve a reasonable problem. Honestly, getting Taint for cutting yourself open is a better deal. But the only thing I can find elsewhere in the d20 multiverse that can remotely fit in this guy's campaign is Psionics. Thankfully, I love psionics. Sadly, psionics is WAAAY more powerful than anything in SW d20, even the most munchkin-y of stuff. (I say this and stand by it in spite of my firm beleif that magic in DnD is far more powerful than psionics will ever be) What concessions could I offer to a SW fanatic to make psionics a negotiable point?
AdventChild 04-28-07, 07:30 PM	There is nothing more psionic than a Jedi. In SW the rules of the universe are different and if you were to make a psionic character in SW it would have to deal with the force and it would be based around the rules regarding force points and skills. The closest thing to a psychic warrior is a jedi knight and to a wilder a force adept.
ArcTan 04-29-07, 10:20 PM	I have a friend who wants to run a SW d20 game. As in, he's bent on it, as in, none of us can seem to get him to see the virtues of playing in any other d20 setting... like Eberron or something. In almost every campaign thus far, I've played something with at least some supernatural feel. In OA I played a Mahou Tsukai, and even got to implement rules from HoH and UA to flesh out the character some. In Eberron, let's just say I'm Kalashtar crazy. And I even have a favorite Illithid character who despite having level adjustment I managed to forge into a formidable character in a FR: Underdark campaign. I even have a male channeler in WoT d20, in spite of how freaky crazy they get and the headaches that causes a character... and I even rped him into being proficient in the Great Game. However, when I look as the options in SW, I just say yuck. I'm frankly not interrested in such an awkward skill sucking system that renders me lifeless and saps away at my ability scores for doing anything a level one to five wizards would think of doing to solve a reasonable problem. Honestly, getting Taint for cutting yourself open is a better deal. Get him to wait for the new streamlined d20 Star Wars that's coming out soon. But the only thing I can find elsewhere in the d20 multiverse that can remotely fit in this guy's campaign is Psionics. Thankfully, I love psionics. Sadly, psionics is WAAAY more powerful than anything in SW d20, even the most munchkin-y of stuff. (I say this and stand by it in spite of my firm beleif that magic in DnD is far more powerful than psionics will ever be) What concessions could I offer to a SW fanatic to make psionics a negotiable point? I agree with you that D&D Psionics is a terrible fit for the power level of d20 Star Wars, and therefore say that you shouldn't try to sneak it in or get your DM to try to work with it if he doesn't want to. The setting is a "low-magic" kind of setting where "magical" Force powers are hard to use. That's the setting he wants. If you don't want to play it, just don't play his game.
FeceMan 04-29-07, 10:43 PM	Just wondering...what's so gimpy about the Force in Star Wars d20?
ck2001wendt 04-30-07, 02:52 AM	Just wondering...what's so gimpy about the Force in Star Wars d20? Because it's the only "magic" system in SW and there are no magic items or mundane super-human enhancements, it is considered a seriously unbalanced system for an RPG (see SW D6). To keep it in the realm of balance, the desingers did two things: 1) your power in the Force is based on spending skill points on Force Skills and 2) using your Force powers costs Vitality, ie HP. This means that you have to specialize as a Force user and you have to conserve your resources more than any other character.
CrimsonDeath 04-30-07, 03:57 AM	Wait. I thought, at least in the Expanded Universe, Force users could heal people (especially themselves) using the Force. How can you do that, if using the Force consumes HP?
Grimmsfeld 04-30-07, 05:45 AM	A successful Heal Self check costs no VP...Heal Another, on the other hand...granted, in 100% of the SWD20 games I've played in, I've never been a Force user, and I've always tried to stay at least 10m away from anyone that was, so I might not be completely accurate...
darklogic 04-30-07, 05:49 AM	Wait. I thought, at least in the Expanded Universe, Force users could heal people (especially themselves) using the Force. How can you do that, if using the Force consumes HP? Well, because they can heal more than the damage they actually take. Now think about that. That means that in the downtime between any encounters that they can heal absolutely all of the party's damage if given enough time. There are no power points or spell slots, so no daily use resources are used up. So Force rules as written is SW d20, while not as nuke friendly as magical systems in other d20 games, allows for continuous use of magical abilities over long stretches of time... basically making force users into buffing and healing classes... with excellent base attack and hit dice considering the ammount of damage output they can do on top of that when holding a lightsaber +10 damage dice of class feature bonus. So yeah, they outshine every other class... and there isn't even a decent rogue equivalent to be even remotely on par with them. Their force powers allow them to dominate social situations far better than nobles, their fighting prowess even as a counselor is better than a soldier's... they can do basically what other classes can, but better. The only remotely balanced force class is the adept, who gets no lightsaber or other jedi only tricks... And using skill ranks and vitality points just doesn't work well.
Grimmsfeld 04-30-07, 06:22 AM	because they can heal more damage than they actually takeNot exactly what he was getting at...a little off topic for this board, but the thing to remember is that SWD20 runs off the vitality/wound system, where in Force user or no, it's entirely conceivable that you can be ready to take on several encounters in one day while only having to stop to take the occasional breather. Also of note, is that the Heal Self/Another skills can only be used like once per hour to treat VP, and I could be wrong, but I think only once per day on WP? Point being that you won't be able/don't need to "spam heal" outside of combat.
ck2001wendt 04-30-07, 12:25 PM	Not exactly what he was getting at...a little off topic for this board, but the thing to remember is that SWD20 runs off the vitality/wound system, where in Force user or no, it's entirely conceivable that you can be ready to take on several encounters in one day while only having to stop to take the occasional breather. Also of note, is that the Heal Self/Another skills can only be used like once per hour to treat VP, and I could be wrong, but I think only once per day on WP? You are correct. You can only Heal Self 1/hour and WP or Ability Damage 1/day. Encounters in SW should work a little different than D&D...more close together and fewer sprawling "dungeons" that allow for in-day downtime, which makes "Heal Self" less useful for short-term combat IMO. Also, consider that being a Jedi or Sith automatically makes you the biggest target on any battlefield... you're a little more powerful, but you're facing a lot more average opposition.
SlanderPanic 04-30-07, 02:12 PM	Vitality is analogous to hit points, but it's not the same thing, conceptually. Vitality is a measure of physical stamina, of someone's ability to avoid damage. When you exert yourself to get out of the way of an attack that otherwise would have injured or killed you, you're expending vitality. Vitality loss is not physical damage. Your ability to absorb physical damage is represented by your wounds total. Force use isn't the only time one loses vitality when using skills. Many physical skill checks can also result in a loss of vitality points because you're exerting yourself. In that light, does it still seem illogical to expend vitality to channel the Force? The OP's entire argument here seems to be that he wants to play a fireballs-flinging mage-type in a setting and a system that's not conducive to that sort of thing. He wants to be more special and powerful than other characters and he wants there to be über-magical loot to make him moreso. What Darklogic needs is to either play the game as it is and enjoy it for what it is or to not play at all. Trying to "sneak" munchkinry into your GM's game is just going to make him -and the other players- angry with you and is going to make you unwelcome. If you just want to blow stuff up, maybe you should try another class. Scoundrels with thermal detonators are always a good time. The most fun I've ever had in a Star Wars game was when playing a heavily-armed, rough-and-tumble soldier. Just use your imagination and don't let the system get you down.
ArcTan 04-30-07, 03:15 PM	Vitality is analogous to hit points, but it's not the same thing, conceptually. Vitality is a measure of physical stamina, of someone's ability to avoid damage. When you exert yourself to get out of the way of an attack that otherwise would have injured or killed you, you're expending vitality. Vitality loss is not physical damage. Your ability to absorb physical damage is represented by your wounds total. Well, this is also what HP are. HP are VP and WP mashed together into one total with no way to bypass VP to hit WP through "critical hits".