How many powers can be on a power stone? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How many powers can be on a power stone? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JulesCARV
03-04-07, 07:53 PM I'm a bit confused: can you imprint multiple powers on a power stone? Only multiple manifestations of the same power? Single manifestations of multiple powers?

There are references to "minor," "medium," and "major" power stones with 1d3, 1d4, and 1d6 powers on them respectively. Does this mean that a power stone can have up to 6 powers? Any powers, or just multiple manifestations of the same power?

Can a power stone of a 1st level power have only 3 manifestations, while a 2nd or 3rd level power power stone would have a maximum of 4, and a 4th+ level power stone can have up to 6?
Tempest Stormwind
03-04-07, 08:17 PM Each power is a unique manifestation. Each major stone contains no more than 6 powers, counting multiple manifestations of the same power as separate powers.

If in doubt, look for similarities in the magical analogue (in this case, scrolls).
AntiDjinn
03-05-07, 04:26 AM There isn't actually all that strong an incentive to make stones with multiple powers, except for such considerations as not cluttering up your pack and not having to fumble to change stones during a fight. From the perspective of the guy imprinting the stone, it costs as much effort to make one stone with 3 fouth level powers as it does to make three separate fourth level stones. So given that your XP and base cost is the same, why make that tripple power stone and just hope someone can afford it, when you can make three separate stones to be more easily sold (and if someone whats all three they can just buy all three)?

The main instance when you will want a multipower stone is when the specific set of powers forms a combo; you mean for all the powers to be discharged in order without the stone leaving the user's hand. In that case, one stacked stone is better than trying to juggle in the middle of the action. Even then, it is a user incentive, one that he should be charged extra for, not so much for the person making the stone.
Bacris
03-05-07, 08:03 AM Remember also that you have the added incentive of not having to address the stone again. :)

That's not a huge benefit, but it's a full round saved.
balard
03-05-07, 10:35 AM And that you can make one 3 power stone in a day, and take 3 days to make three 1 power stones.
AntiDjinn
03-05-07, 12:48 PM Encoding a stone takes 1 day per 1000 gp in its base price. So if the costs are the same, it takes the same number of days to make 1 3000 gp stone or 3 1000 gp stones.

And addressing the stone is a consideration for the user not the crafter. If someone is shopping for a particular set of powers in stones, and you have all three in separate stones, you are only at risk of loosing the sale if the psionic crafter down the street has the same three all in one rock.

From the crafter's standpoint, it is going to be better to keep his options open by having a stock of single power cheaper stones. It be feasible to make stacked stones only on commission or if there is a specific combo that proves very popular with customers. For that matter, only a limited stock of very in-demand powers are worthwhile to keep on hand; commission is going to be the bulk of your work.

And no matter what the XPH lists about market price, if you have a very specific combo in a stone and an adventurer wants it, its value is whatever he is willing to pay if no one else in the area can make that exact item.

The character type who will, of course, have a lock on the competition when it comes to crafting stones for cash will be the local erudite. Odds are he will have access even to rarer powers and so will be able to make just about any stone to order. Whatever the erudite crafter is selling his stones for will probably set the asking price for his local competition.
JulesCARV
03-05-07, 02:21 PM AntiJinn, often power stones don't cost 1000 gp. It's true that crafting three 1000 gp power stones costs the same as crafting one 3000 gp power stone, but what about four 150 gp, 2nd-level power stones vs. one 600 gp power stone with four 2nd level powers? The four power stones take four days. The one power stone takes one day.

Since you're curious about why I'm asking, though, my question is actually based on a fallacious understanding of the erudite that I had.

My idea was that erudites can learn powers with the psychic reformation + expanded knowledge + imprint power stone + add to repertoire trick, but that's only for powers one level below their maximum or lower, so 9th level powers outside the psion/wilder list, such as discipline powers, can never be obtained, unless an erudite finds a 9th level power stone to add the power to his repertoire. (note: this isn't really true: an erudite can't add powers of his maximum level to his repertoire even with a power stone of the appropriate power)

My idea (based on a fallacious understanding of how erudites learn powers) was to use reality revision to create a power stone of a 9th level power -- but manifesting reality revision for 5306 experience to create a 3825 gp power stone seems rather inefficient. Reality revision can't create multiple psionic items simultaneously, though.

My idea, therefore, was to create a power stone with six seperate 9th-level discipline-only powers on it. Such a power stone would be worth 22950 gp, and cost 6836 experience, which, while not great, is clearly a better deal.

Doesn't work anyway, of course, because erudites can't learn 9th level powers from power stones, since they can't manifest non-existent 10th level powers, but whatever.
crizhII
03-05-07, 02:46 PM Umm maybe I'm crazy.....

Erudites can't learn 9th level Discipline Powers but there's nothing to stop them learning any other Psion/Wilder Power from a Power Stone or another creature that already knows it.

Additionally, while Reality Revision doesn't say that you can create multiple items with a single manifestation, it doesn't say that you can't either.

Furthermore, I don't recall any explicit ruling that Power Stones can have a maximum of six powers in them. That's the most you can get from randomly generated stones but the imprinting rules do not state any maximum.

In fact it has always been the case that any item can be enchanted ( is there a Psionic version of the word enchanted? ) multiple times. It costs extra for Wondrous/Universal items as they take up body slots, but apart from that the sky's the limit AFAIK.
crizhII
03-05-07, 02:50 PM Sorry, wrong end of stick.

Thought for a minute you were implying that Erudites could not add any 9th level powers to their repertoire from Power Stones.

Doh.

By that level would you not be better with Psychic Chirurgy anyways?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JulesCARV 03-04-07, 07:53 PM	I'm a bit confused: can you imprint multiple powers on a power stone? Only multiple manifestations of the same power? Single manifestations of multiple powers? There are references to "minor," "medium," and "major" power stones with 1d3, 1d4, and 1d6 powers on them respectively. Does this mean that a power stone can have up to 6 powers? Any powers, or just multiple manifestations of the same power? Can a power stone of a 1st level power have only 3 manifestations, while a 2nd or 3rd level power power stone would have a maximum of 4, and a 4th+ level power stone can have up to 6?
Tempest Stormwind 03-04-07, 08:17 PM	Each power is a unique manifestation. Each major stone contains no more than 6 powers, counting multiple manifestations of the same power as separate powers. If in doubt, look for similarities in the magical analogue (in this case, scrolls).
AntiDjinn 03-05-07, 04:26 AM	There isn't actually all that strong an incentive to make stones with multiple powers, except for such considerations as not cluttering up your pack and not having to fumble to change stones during a fight. From the perspective of the guy imprinting the stone, it costs as much effort to make one stone with 3 fouth level powers as it does to make three separate fourth level stones. So given that your XP and base cost is the same, why make that tripple power stone and just hope someone can afford it, when you can make three separate stones to be more easily sold (and if someone whats all three they can just buy all three)? The main instance when you will want a multipower stone is when the specific set of powers forms a combo; you mean for all the powers to be discharged in order without the stone leaving the user's hand. In that case, one stacked stone is better than trying to juggle in the middle of the action. Even then, it is a user incentive, one that he should be charged extra for, not so much for the person making the stone.
Bacris 03-05-07, 08:03 AM	Remember also that you have the added incentive of not having to address the stone again. :) That's not a huge benefit, but it's a full round saved.
balard 03-05-07, 10:35 AM	And that you can make one 3 power stone in a day, and take 3 days to make three 1 power stones.
AntiDjinn 03-05-07, 12:48 PM	Encoding a stone takes 1 day per 1000 gp in its base price. So if the costs are the same, it takes the same number of days to make 1 3000 gp stone or 3 1000 gp stones. And addressing the stone is a consideration for the user not the crafter. If someone is shopping for a particular set of powers in stones, and you have all three in separate stones, you are only at risk of loosing the sale if the psionic crafter down the street has the same three all in one rock. From the crafter's standpoint, it is going to be better to keep his options open by having a stock of single power cheaper stones. It be feasible to make stacked stones only on commission or if there is a specific combo that proves very popular with customers. For that matter, only a limited stock of very in-demand powers are worthwhile to keep on hand; commission is going to be the bulk of your work. And no matter what the XPH lists about market price, if you have a very specific combo in a stone and an adventurer wants it, its value is whatever he is willing to pay if no one else in the area can make that exact item. The character type who will, of course, have a lock on the competition when it comes to crafting stones for cash will be the local erudite. Odds are he will have access even to rarer powers and so will be able to make just about any stone to order. Whatever the erudite crafter is selling his stones for will probably set the asking price for his local competition.
JulesCARV 03-05-07, 02:21 PM	AntiJinn, often power stones don't cost 1000 gp. It's true that crafting three 1000 gp power stones costs the same as crafting one 3000 gp power stone, but what about four 150 gp, 2nd-level power stones vs. one 600 gp power stone with four 2nd level powers? The four power stones take four days. The one power stone takes one day. Since you're curious about why I'm asking, though, my question is actually based on a fallacious understanding of the erudite that I had. My idea was that erudites can learn powers with the psychic reformation + expanded knowledge + imprint power stone + add to repertoire trick, but that's only for powers one level below their maximum or lower, so 9th level powers outside the psion/wilder list, such as discipline powers, can never be obtained, unless an erudite finds a 9th level power stone to add the power to his repertoire. (note: this isn't really true: an erudite can't add powers of his maximum level to his repertoire even with a power stone of the appropriate power) My idea (based on a fallacious understanding of how erudites learn powers) was to use reality revision to create a power stone of a 9th level power -- but manifesting reality revision for 5306 experience to create a 3825 gp power stone seems rather inefficient. Reality revision can't create multiple psionic items simultaneously, though. My idea, therefore, was to create a power stone with six seperate 9th-level discipline-only powers on it. Such a power stone would be worth 22950 gp, and cost 6836 experience, which, while not great, is clearly a better deal. Doesn't work anyway, of course, because erudites can't learn 9th level powers from power stones, since they can't manifest non-existent 10th level powers, but whatever.
crizhII 03-05-07, 02:46 PM	Umm maybe I'm crazy..... Erudites can't learn 9th level Discipline Powers but there's nothing to stop them learning any other Psion/Wilder Power from a Power Stone or another creature that already knows it. Additionally, while Reality Revision doesn't say that you can create multiple items with a single manifestation, it doesn't say that you can't either. Furthermore, I don't recall any explicit ruling that Power Stones can have a maximum of six powers in them. That's the most you can get from randomly generated stones but the imprinting rules do not state any maximum. In fact it has always been the case that any item can be enchanted ( is there a Psionic version of the word enchanted? ) multiple times. It costs extra for Wondrous/Universal items as they take up body slots, but apart from that the sky's the limit AFAIK.
crizhII 03-05-07, 02:50 PM	Sorry, wrong end of stick. Thought for a minute you were implying that Erudites could not add any 9th level powers to their repertoire from Power Stones. Doh. By that level would you not be better with Psychic Chirurgy anyways?