I don't want to be a wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

I don't want to be a wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shubert
08-25-07, 04:53 PM I love the idea of psionics, but the first (and only) psionic character I ever played just felt to me like just another wizard. I really wanted psionics to feel like something completely different. I'm thinking of picking up expanded psionics handbook one of these days, mostly because I've been reading Eberron, and if you don't know how psionics works in Eberron, you don't know how 1/4 of the world works.

Basically, how do I play a psionic character without just making a wizard? Do I just need to give the book more time to grow on me, or is it just not for me?
InkBlot
08-25-07, 04:58 PM There are several ways to play a psionic character without feeling like you're playing a wizard.

1. Play a wilder.

2. Play a psychic warrior.

3. Play a member of any non-psionic class, and take Wild Talent and other psionic feats.

4. Play a psionic race, and take a few psionic feats.

So long as you're not playing a psion, you won't feel like a wizard. Luckily, the Expanded Psionics Handbook has many more ways to be psionic than playing a psion.

I heartily recommend getting the Expanded Psionics Handbook if you want to use psionics in 3.5 or 3rd edition. Avoid Complete Psionic until you know for sure that you can't live without more psionic material (and have already checked out The Mind's Eye).

edit: Until you can get to your friendly local gaming store, you could use the System Reference Document (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionic.html) to get a look at the basic rules. The SRD (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionic.html) is a bit harsh, and entirely sans flavor text or examples, but all the rules are there.

In particular, one of the biggest changes in 3.5 is Psionic Focus and the relevance of Psionic Feats. Psionic Focus is a state of mind, and only costs you a moment to enter it. While you're psionically focused you can take 15 on a single concentration check, but doing so causes you to lose your focus. There are many feats which only function while your are psionically focused, and some of these cause you to lose your focus.

For example, a 9th level Kalashtar monk with the right two psionic feats could run up walls while focused, or add +2d6 to a punch and become unfocused. This costs him no power points at all. Later the Kalashtar might enter into the Fist Of Zuoken prestige class (perhaps renamed to Tashalantora or Fist Of Flowing Thought (http://64.223.12.31/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050110a)) to add a repertoire of psionic powers while advancing his monk abilities. This is a very psionic character, who is nothing like a wizard.
Caterpillar
08-26-07, 10:47 AM Without a doubt you need to pick up the Expanded Psionics Handbook! If playing a psion is feeling like playing a wizard to much then I wonder if you are RPing the displays of manifesting. In my group when my 'spells' go off (they don't know i'm a psion, much less an elan) they start wondering whats up and makes things very fun and interesting.

Also, have your psion pick up Psicrystal Affinity! It's similar to a familiar but the knowledge that it's a crystal and not an animal is very flavorful IMO.
Lycanthromancer
08-26-07, 10:59 AM Yeah, they taste like salt crystals. :P

The thing about psionics is that they can fit the mold of just about anything. Flavor is optional. So, if you want a different feel, change the flavor to suit. The options are nigh-limitless.
DracoPhoenix
08-26-07, 01:08 PM I love the idea of psionics, but the first (and only) psionic character I ever played just felt to me like just another wizard. I really wanted psionics to feel like something completely different. I'm thinking of picking up expanded psionics handbook one of these days, mostly because I've been reading Eberron, and if you don't know how psionics works in Eberron, you don't know how 1/4 of the world works.

Basically, how do I play a psionic character without just making a wizard? Do I just need to give the book more time to grow on me, or is it just not for me?

The problem you have is that wizard and psion both intended to fill the "arcane caster" roll - that is, blaster & utility. That means that they will have core function overlap.

What makes a psion different is (I assume a long rant on the differences between the two isn't needed :p ) that a psion has to specialise. This means he has a more defined core role - which you can build your character around.

For example a telepath (Particularly one who takes (or is allowed to take) Thrallherd), game play is going to be based around the mental manipulation of those around him, for good or bad. A suggestion here, a charm there - even an outright dominate. If he can get someone else to do his dirty work, all the better - if not, he's smart enough to pack a few surprises.

Or the shaper - the artiste of the class. Bit of a dreamer, loves nothing more than create, sculpting, even alchemy is a good application of his talents. Why they don't get prestidigitation I'll never know, flavour food & drink - indespensible when it's iron rations for the 3rd week running.

The nomad? The eternal traveller (cue The Littlest Hobo music). Backpack slung over his should, compass in hand (because 1 pp on know location and direction is too difficult...) and max ranks in geography, exploring the world for the sake of traveling, to explore brave new worlds, to seek out new life & civillisations, to boldly go where... er sorry, wrong parallel reality. But you get the idea.

Kinesists - well there's always someone who just loves blowing things up.

As others have pointed out, psionics isn't just the psion, you have a number of variant caster classes, rogue classes and fighter classes.

Some of the prestige classes are just an outright no though. (meta mind for example, one of the few instances of a PrC that is worse than staying core for 20 no matter how you measure it.)

Some are fun, but possibly too expensive in some games (Uncarnate anyone).

(Also, DM permitting, you could probably map some of the Arcane PrCs over easily enough)

If you like psionics, get the XPH as soon as you can, it's worth it.
Complete Psionics, you don't need to rush out and get - many a rant on that "gem" can be found on this board.

No idea if any of this helps.

(That said, I am currently having a lot of fun with a gestalt ardent / psion(shaper). :D)
Milo HoBo
08-27-07, 11:56 AM The "wizard" of psionics would be the Erudite. Just as a wizard has to go around and collect spells, so too does an erudite go around and collect powers. Psions are similar to what a sorcerer should have been. They don't collect powers, they just know them as a sorcerer.

The erudite and the wizard are still quite different, but they are more similar than the psion and the wizard.

My suggestion would be to try out something like the society mind. It feels really different. However, your role in the party will feel really different.

If you want something just completely different, try the binder or incarnum
InkBlot
08-27-07, 01:06 PM How come nobody else is mentioning Wilders, Psychic Warriors, Soulknives, Fists of Zuoken, War Minds, Pyrokineticists, Ardents, Lurks, or Psionic feats?

They all play completely differently from a Wizard, especialy a Maenad Barbarian with Psionic Weapon, Deep Impact, Martial Study (any Diamond Mind maneuver), Psionic Meditation, and Power Attack.
CrimsonDeath
08-27-07, 01:40 PM How come nobody else is mentioning Wilders, Psychic Warriors, Soulknives, Fists of Zuoken, War Minds, Pyrokineticists, Ardents, Lurks, or Psionic feats?
Because you mentioned them in the first reply.
DarkTouch
08-27-07, 03:17 PM A Xeph speed fighter could be fun.
Xeph, a couple of the racial feats from the Complete psionic to get some extra attacks and then levels in fighter, specializing in whatever weapon you like. Use your fighter feats for weapon enhancements and your bonus feats for psionic stuff like psionic weapon and speed of thought.
CrimsonDeath
08-27-07, 06:26 PM A Xeph speed fighter could be fun.
Xeph, a couple of the racial feats from the Complete psionic to get some extra attacks and then levels in fighter, specializing in whatever weapon you like. Use your fighter feats for weapon enhancements and your bonus feats for psionic stuff like psionic weapon and speed of thought.
I'd been looking at building a Xeph Warblade, but it would take a lot of feats for the race choice to pay off.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shubert 08-25-07, 04:53 PM	I love the idea of psionics, but the first (and only) psionic character I ever played just felt to me like just another wizard. I really wanted psionics to feel like something completely different. I'm thinking of picking up expanded psionics handbook one of these days, mostly because I've been reading Eberron, and if you don't know how psionics works in Eberron, you don't know how 1/4 of the world works. Basically, how do I play a psionic character without just making a wizard? Do I just need to give the book more time to grow on me, or is it just not for me?
InkBlot 08-25-07, 04:58 PM	There are several ways to play a psionic character without feeling like you're playing a wizard. 1. Play a wilder. 2. Play a psychic warrior. 3. Play a member of any non-psionic class, and take Wild Talent and other psionic feats. 4. Play a psionic race, and take a few psionic feats. So long as you're not playing a psion, you won't feel like a wizard. Luckily, the Expanded Psionics Handbook has many more ways to be psionic than playing a psion. I heartily recommend getting the Expanded Psionics Handbook if you want to use psionics in 3.5 or 3rd edition. Avoid Complete Psionic until you know for sure that you can't live without more psionic material (and have already checked out The Mind's Eye). edit: Until you can get to your friendly local gaming store, you could use the System Reference Document (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionic.html) to get a look at the basic rules. The SRD (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionic.html) is a bit harsh, and entirely sans flavor text or examples, but all the rules are there. In particular, one of the biggest changes in 3.5 is Psionic Focus and the relevance of Psionic Feats. Psionic Focus is a state of mind, and only costs you a moment to enter it. While you're psionically focused you can take 15 on a single concentration check, but doing so causes you to lose your focus. There are many feats which only function while your are psionically focused, and some of these cause you to lose your focus. For example, a 9th level Kalashtar monk with the right two psionic feats could run up walls while focused, or add +2d6 to a punch and become unfocused. This costs him no power points at all. Later the Kalashtar might enter into the Fist Of Zuoken prestige class (perhaps renamed to Tashalantora or Fist Of Flowing Thought (http://64.223.12.31/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050110a)) to add a repertoire of psionic powers while advancing his monk abilities. This is a very psionic character, who is nothing like a wizard.
Caterpillar 08-26-07, 10:47 AM	Without a doubt you need to pick up the Expanded Psionics Handbook! If playing a psion is feeling like playing a wizard to much then I wonder if you are RPing the displays of manifesting. In my group when my 'spells' go off (they don't know i'm a psion, much less an elan) they start wondering whats up and makes things very fun and interesting. Also, have your psion pick up Psicrystal Affinity! It's similar to a familiar but the knowledge that it's a crystal and not an animal is very flavorful IMO.
Lycanthromancer 08-26-07, 10:59 AM	Yeah, they taste like salt crystals. :P The thing about psionics is that they can fit the mold of just about anything. Flavor is optional. So, if you want a different feel, change the flavor to suit. The options are nigh-limitless.
DracoPhoenix 08-26-07, 01:08 PM	I love the idea of psionics, but the first (and only) psionic character I ever played just felt to me like just another wizard. I really wanted psionics to feel like something completely different. I'm thinking of picking up expanded psionics handbook one of these days, mostly because I've been reading Eberron, and if you don't know how psionics works in Eberron, you don't know how 1/4 of the world works. Basically, how do I play a psionic character without just making a wizard? Do I just need to give the book more time to grow on me, or is it just not for me? The problem you have is that wizard and psion both intended to fill the "arcane caster" roll - that is, blaster & utility. That means that they will have core function overlap. What makes a psion different is (I assume a long rant on the differences between the two isn't needed :p ) that a psion has to specialise. This means he has a more defined core role - which you can build your character around. For example a telepath (Particularly one who takes (or is allowed to take) Thrallherd), game play is going to be based around the mental manipulation of those around him, for good or bad. A suggestion here, a charm there - even an outright dominate. If he can get someone else to do his dirty work, all the better - if not, he's smart enough to pack a few surprises. Or the shaper - the artiste of the class. Bit of a dreamer, loves nothing more than create, sculpting, even alchemy is a good application of his talents. Why they don't get prestidigitation I'll never know, flavour food & drink - indespensible when it's iron rations for the 3rd week running. The nomad? The eternal traveller (cue The Littlest Hobo music). Backpack slung over his should, compass in hand (because 1 pp on know location and direction is too difficult...) and max ranks in geography, exploring the world for the sake of traveling, to explore brave new worlds, to seek out new life & civillisations, to boldly go where... er sorry, wrong parallel reality. But you get the idea. Kinesists - well there's always someone who just loves blowing things up. As others have pointed out, psionics isn't just the psion, you have a number of variant caster classes, rogue classes and fighter classes. Some of the prestige classes are just an outright no though. (meta mind for example, one of the few instances of a PrC that is worse than staying core for 20 no matter how you measure it.) Some are fun, but possibly too expensive in some games (Uncarnate anyone). (Also, DM permitting, you could probably map some of the Arcane PrCs over easily enough) If you like psionics, get the XPH as soon as you can, it's worth it. Complete Psionics, you don't need to rush out and get - many a rant on that "gem" can be found on this board. No idea if any of this helps. (That said, I am currently having a lot of fun with a gestalt ardent / psion(shaper). :D)
Milo HoBo 08-27-07, 11:56 AM	The "wizard" of psionics would be the Erudite. Just as a wizard has to go around and collect spells, so too does an erudite go around and collect powers. Psions are similar to what a sorcerer should have been. They don't collect powers, they just know them as a sorcerer. The erudite and the wizard are still quite different, but they are more similar than the psion and the wizard. My suggestion would be to try out something like the society mind. It feels really different. However, your role in the party will feel really different. If you want something just completely different, try the binder or incarnum
InkBlot 08-27-07, 01:06 PM	How come nobody else is mentioning Wilders, Psychic Warriors, Soulknives, Fists of Zuoken, War Minds, Pyrokineticists, Ardents, Lurks, or Psionic feats? They all play completely differently from a Wizard, especialy a Maenad Barbarian with Psionic Weapon, Deep Impact, Martial Study (any Diamond Mind maneuver), Psionic Meditation, and Power Attack.
CrimsonDeath 08-27-07, 01:40 PM	How come nobody else is mentioning Wilders, Psychic Warriors, Soulknives, Fists of Zuoken, War Minds, Pyrokineticists, Ardents, Lurks, or Psionic feats? Because you mentioned them in the first reply.
DarkTouch 08-27-07, 03:17 PM	A Xeph speed fighter could be fun. Xeph, a couple of the racial feats from the Complete psionic to get some extra attacks and then levels in fighter, specializing in whatever weapon you like. Use your fighter feats for weapon enhancements and your bonus feats for psionic stuff like psionic weapon and speed of thought.
CrimsonDeath 08-27-07, 06:26 PM	A Xeph speed fighter could be fun. Xeph, a couple of the racial feats from the Complete psionic to get some extra attacks and then levels in fighter, specializing in whatever weapon you like. Use your fighter feats for weapon enhancements and your bonus feats for psionic stuff like psionic weapon and speed of thought. I'd been looking at building a Xeph Warblade, but it would take a lot of feats for the race choice to pay off.