Post/Author/DateTime	Post
24_7_Gamer 12-10-07, 01:43 PM	I don't understand adding new powers, and additional power points. How many do i get if i'm a level 5 psion going into a level of metamind?
archerpwr 12-10-07, 01:45 PM	I don't understand adding new powers, and additional power points. How many do i get if i'm a level 5 psion going into a level of metamind? Don't do it. Metamind is a trap. Do you know how sorcerers and prestige classes interact? Psion operates on the same way. Just look how many times it ups your level from the table and add that to your base class levels and check your table.
24_7_Gamer 12-10-07, 01:52 PM	Don't do it. Metamind is a trap. Do you know how sorcerers and prestige classes interact? Psion operates on the same way. Just look how many times it ups your level from the table and add that to your base class levels and check your table. No i don't really know, I'm Kinda New. And if Metamind is a trap, what do you recoment. And I'm a Kineticists by the way
archerpwr 12-10-07, 01:56 PM	No i don't really know, I'm Kinda New. And if Metamind is a trap, what do you recoment. And I'm a Kineticists by the way Kineticist 20. Psions are balanced enough that there is nothing wrong with taking 20 levels.
24_7_Gamer 12-10-07, 01:58 PM	And what would be some good Feats to go with the class?
archerpwr 12-10-07, 02:03 PM	And what would be some good Feats to go with the class? Excellent question. Maybe you'll do some light reading. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=638776 http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=624041
24_7_Gamer 12-10-07, 02:06 PM	And what do you think about the Pyrokineticist
archerpwr 12-10-07, 02:09 PM	And what do you think about the Pyrokineticist http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/its-a-trap.jpg
24_7_Gamer 12-10-07, 02:12 PM	http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/its-a-trap.jpg Okay, Okay. Prestige Classes for psions are all traps, got it.
rilem 12-10-07, 02:18 PM	Not all. Some are stupidly broken; others are merely excellent depending on your desired role. Many suck. But since you're obviously really new, it will serve you better to read those links provided.
24_7_Gamer 12-10-07, 02:20 PM	Not all. Some are stupidly broken; others are merely excellent depending on your desired role. Many suck. But since you're obviously really new, it will serve you better to read those links provided. Thanks and reading so now
The_Mess 12-10-07, 02:20 PM	Yeah, Metamind isn't well regarded in psionic fandom. However, to answer your question, as a fifth level psion taking a first level of metamind you get no new pp or powers known. You only add pp and powers known on even levels of metamind. On taking a second level of metamind, you will now have the pp (including bonus pp) and powers known of a 6th level psion. At level 20 (psion 10, metamind 10), you'll have the pp and powers known of a 15th level psion, so you'd be giving up ~160 pp (depending on your Int), one feat, and 8 high level powers known. In return, you get 11 not free pp from your psicrystal (you have to put them back in if you use them), a few free manifestations of low level powers, but you have to pay for the augment necessary to make them useful (equivalent to 33 pp), and infinite pp for 10 rounds (equivalent to 150 pp*). Grand total trade off, you give up one feat and 8 high level powers to lose ~160 easy-to-use pp to gain 194 pp that have restrictions on them. For a net "profit" of ~34 restricted pp. So I don't think many forumites will recommend Metamind. The pyrokineticist is better suited for a melee combat character than for a psion. Psionics does need better prestige classes, but most of the others are better than these two. *You could get more out of Font of Power by using feats like Practiced Manifester or Overchannel, or by using powers or spells to give you extra actions, but it's not going to help that much.
SlanderPanic 12-10-07, 02:35 PM	Archer is right, but let's go ahead and actually answer your original question. Every time you gain an even-numbered metamind level, you gain an increase in manifesting ability as if you'd gained a level in your original manifesting class. Example: Lorien is a fifth-level psion. Looking at the psion chart (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm), he has 25 power points per day, knows 11 powers, and can know up to 3rd level powers. His manifester level is 5. His Intelligence (16) grants him 7 bonus power points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/index.htm#abilitiesAndManifesters), for a total of 32. When Lorien gains a level, he chooses to take metamind. According to the metamind chart (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/metamind.htm), he does not gain an increase in manifesting ability at this level. He still has 32 power points and 11 powers, and he can know up to 3rd-level powers. His manifester level is 5. He gains free manifesting 1st three times per day, which allows him to manifest three unaugmented first-level powers per day. When Lorien gains enough XP for 7th level, he chooses to take another level in metamind. This grants him an increase in manifesting ability, which means he manifests powers as if he were a 6th level psion. Looking at the psion chart again, we see that Lorien gains 2 new powers (for a total of 13), 10 more power points, and is still limited to knowing 3rd level or lower powers. His manifester level is 6. His bonus power points per day go up by 2, giving him a grand total of 44 power points. This progression repeats. At 8th level, he doesn't gain any new manifesting. At 9th level, he manifests like a 7th-level psion. That gap keeps growing wider and wider, and he doesn't really get a lot to compensate for it. A metamind right away has fewer effective power points than a psion of the same level and this continues to get worse. A psion 5/metamind 10 has 88 power points, knows 21 powers, and can know powers up to 5th level. His manifester level is 10. With an Intelligence of 16, he gets an extra 15 power points. He can store up to 11 power points in his psicrystal and has 33 points of effective free manifesting. That's a total of 147 power points, of which he can spend a maximum of 10 on any power. A psion 15 has 195 power points, knows 28 powers, and can know powers up to 8th level. His manifester level is 15. With an Intelligence of 16,* he gets an extra 22 power points. That's a total of 217 power points, of which he can spend a maximum of 15 on any power. Can you see now why the Metamind is considered a waste of levels? It can have unlimited power points for a minute per day, sure, but he's limited to spending a mediocre number of points on powers other psions have left behind five levels ago. *With an Intelligence of 16, the character couldn't know powers of higher level than 6th, but I'm keeping this stat the same just for consistency's sake.
CrimsonDeath 12-10-07, 03:27 PM	Okay, Okay. Prestige Classes for psions are all traps, got it. If a prestiege class loses more than two manifester levels, you'd better be getting something great out of it. Pyrokineticist is better for characters that mostly use weapons, rather than characters who manifest powers. Metamind isn't really good for anyone. A lot of people love the Thrallherd and (Illithid) Slayer, while the Elocater has its uses (especially if you don't take all ten levels).
archerpwr 12-10-07, 04:42 PM	If a prestiege class loses more than two manifester levels, you'd better be getting something great out of it. Pyrokineticist is better for characters that mostly use weapons, rather than characters who manifest powers. Metamind isn't really good for anyone. A lot of people love the Thrallherd and (Illithid) Slayer, while the Elocater has its uses (especially if you don't take all ten levels). Yeah, those three are worth it. They each have rather stiff investments though: Slayer: track, lose 1 ML and 2 bonus feats. Still worth it. Elocater: 3 feats for entry, 3 ML, and meh bonus feats. Good for 7ish levels though. Thrallherd: 1 Expanded knowledge for entry. Lose 2 ML and gain 2 powers known in addition to leadership plus. This one is worth it.
DracoPhoenix 12-11-07, 04:17 AM	If you know you're in it for the long haul, Psion Uncarnate with a skin of Proteus could be fun. (Make your own via reforming in craft universal item and the 25% gold cost Eberron feat. The reform out the feats :) ) Oh, and don't get Complete Psionic. If you're new to psionics, it's not worth the cost for what little useful material you get.
Lycanthromancer 12-11-07, 04:47 PM	Check out the Mind's Eye. Especially the crystal master and (if you like astral construct), the constructor. :D