Post/Author/DateTime	Post
syrinth 06-02-07, 04:40 PM	I want to say right now that I do not think Psionics is overpowered. I do have one question though for the one thing that I'm having a hard time coping with. The fact that manifesters basically cannot be neutralized without killing them or expecting them *and buying an expensive magical item* I would very much like to come up with a reasonable way to neutralize manifesters after they have already been defeated. By this I mean something similar to binding and gagging a wizard so he cant cast. Thanks very much for any thoughts on this ^_^
calronmoonflower 06-02-07, 04:52 PM	Psionic Restraints (Expanded Psionic Handbook page 175) can limit manifesting ability. If you render them unconscious (maybe Drow knockout poison) they cannot manifest. I blind bold will negate powers that require line of sight. There are powers that can overcome this however. Damaging their manifesting score will limit the powers that they can use. It might be hard to identify which is important to them, but if you get the wrong one to 0 they'll become unconscious and unable to manifest any way. Feeblemind will stop manifesting and Touch of Idiocy will limit it.
glacialcat 06-02-07, 04:55 PM	Keeping him knocked out with non-lethal damage? Depriving him of sleep so he can't get his 8 hours of rest he needs to regain power points? Its difficult to do, but its one of a psion's main strengths over a wizard. The Psychic Turmoil spell and Greater version can sap away power points, and after that just keeping him from getting any sleep will keep him from manifesting.
Psikerlord 06-02-07, 08:18 PM	I would make up some kind of drug cocktail that if you give him, it prevents him manifesting. Say lasts 12 hours but takes 10 minutes to administer to him (while unconscious), so that it can't be stolen by your players to then neutralise other manifesters mid-combat! Otherwise I agree with glacialcat, keep him awake so he can't recover PP's.
hovnarr 06-02-07, 08:30 PM	inflicting with cascade flu is also a pretty good show stopper, especially since there are no means to cure disease in core psionics.
dogolopee 06-02-07, 09:55 PM	Tickle him alot so he is distracted and has to concentrate to manifest. Play loud music or other distracting things. Cut out part of his barin so he can't use his powers. Find a creature that eats power points and atach it to the person. Use anything that drains power points on him. Flog him with a mindcrusher sap, non-lethal and sucks up power points. Find someone who can create a null psionics field.
syrinth 06-02-07, 10:40 PM	Hmmm, some of these are useful ideas. Can't believe I forgot about blindfolds... *on a side note that makes me nervous since our kineticist recently used Energy Burst when she couldn't see multiple targets (due to one of them being on her face). The resultant blast killed all the parties' horses, the DMPC(not a bad one so no one start) and would have killed the party Bard and Rogue if they hadn't rolled 18s. We really don't like her very much edit: anymore* A note though, I'm not looking for magical abilities or drugs. Those require some foresight. I'm also fully open to homebrew ideas like, a manifester cannot manifest if a jade stone is pressed into their temple or some other such rot. Thanks for the ideas ^_^
InkBlot 06-03-07, 01:10 AM	on a side note that makes me nervous since our kineticist recently used Energy Burst when she couldn't see multiple targets (due to one of them being on her face). The resultant blast killed all the parties' horses, the DMPC(not a bad one so no one start) and would have killed the party Bard and Rogue if they hadn't rolled 18s. First of all, blowing up when you can hear that your allies are close by is just plain dumb. Second, was the DMPC damaged before this? Was the DMPC much lower level or have d4 HD? Do the Rogue and Bard have Constitution scores less than 12? Make sure the kineticist is following the golden rule of psionics: "You can not spend more power points than your manifester level."
syrinth 06-03-07, 02:55 AM	She has overchannel and talented :( Trust me, I'm watching. 10d6 +20 dmg with a fortitude save *for frost*(really hate the different elemental effects of psionics but whatever). The DMPC was a shadowcaster and had already buffed himself earlier on so couldn't *had about 37ish health I think* Bard and Rogue also have low hps >_>. The bard is currently planning on getting some Castor Oil.
glacialcat 06-03-07, 02:59 AM	Why not just talk to the player and tell her to.. avoid harming other party members? I dunno, too obvious? Tell her harming other players isn't very party friendly and to stop it? Or are there other issues here? Doesn't really sound to me like a problem with psionics as much as its a problem with a player being a jerk.
syrinth 06-03-07, 03:19 AM	oh I never said that it was a problem with psionics, I just told that story after the comments about blindfolds. *It's an issue with NPCs really and just, I want to be able to neutralize manifesters after they're taken captive* This player is a friend of ours and our group is very good natured *we can have all out fights and do horrible things to each other in character and be totally fine out game*. He's just also an idiot heh. This is the same player who, playing a cleric, allowed a dwarf to bleed to death right beside her, constantly smacked around the party and once pinned down and beat unconscious the DMPC, in a graveyard, and then took his money. I think it's because he's used to playing video games like WoW and doesn't really think of things from an on-game perspective very often. He's actually had to write down a list of character traits so that he could remember what he should and should not be doing >_>
MnemonicSV 06-03-07, 04:33 AM	Beyond the simple blindfold/head-covering-sack and maybe earplugs, non-lethal damage really is the way to go... especially for the cash-strapped masses of foes who don't have psionic/magic means of inhibiting manifestation, and don't mind beating someone while they're down. Seriously, your average evil NPC will have no moral qualms about giving an hourly "kick to the gut" to the bound and blindfolded manifester. In fact, given that the manifester in question is a kineticist, the NPC may consider keeping the PC unconscious as his only means of self-defence! ------- Another option is the classic 1-pound wineskin full of Quintessence. The weak psionic-inhibiting effect can impede a low-level manifester well. In the very least it may prevent him from manifesting his higher-level powers, or augmenting his low level powers to maximum effectiveness (on a failed Will saving throw). Just keep the quintessence within 5 feet of the manifester(s). While the cost of creating 1 pound of quintessence may be prohibitive (using NPC spellcasting rules), it's not unreasonable to assume a savvy foe with resources would keep a bag around "just in case." It's long-term use far outweighs it's price. While pricey by book standards, quintessence never spoils and lasts indefinitely. A 1-pound accumulation of quintessence is effectively a "psionic item" that costs no feats or XP to create, just a mid/high-level Shaper who knows the power. There is some question as to whether the inhibiting effect can emanate through materials or not (Does it need line of effect? Can it emanate through a leather pouch, or five feet of dirt, or a lead sheet?) but this isn't anything that cannot be rule-zeroed. Keep a 1-pound accumulation of quintessence buried just under one of the floor stones in a prison cell to make it more difficult for manifesters to escape. ------- Another more unpleasant means of inhibiting a manifester is by forcing concentration checks by continuous pain/discomfort. A metal cilice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilice) strapped about the thigh or upper arm (a la Silas, from The Da Vinci Code) won't be enough to do actual damage (even non-lethal damage), but it may be painful/uncomfortable enough to force a DC 10 Concentration check every time the character attempts to manifest a power. Just make sure it's designed with a lock so that it may not be easily removed. Best of all, it's inexpensive; I would price such a cilice equal to a pair of manacles. It may (ie: almost certainly) also cause sleep deprivation which, as noted above, prevents the manifester from recovering his power points.
syrinth 06-03-07, 03:13 PM	All some very good ideas, thanks a lot ^_^
MnemonicSV 06-03-07, 03:28 PM	Oh, I forgot to mention that quintessence also forces a DC 14 Concentration check when manifesting powers (as per the rules for manifesting while subject to a distracting power/effect). Thus, manifesting powers near quintessence forces both a DC 16 Will save to avoid paying twice as much pp, and a DC 14 (+ Power Level) Concentration check to avoid spoiling the manifestation entirely and wasting those pp. This makes it much more effective for keeping manifesters down.
syrinth 06-03-07, 03:30 PM	useful yes but I can't see it being too damaging. *I've always been of a mind that forcing skill checks of anything less than 25ish is generally a bad deterrent since it's childishly easy to make them and they also can't fail on a 1.* I still can't believe blindfolds didn't occur to me >.<