If Psionics replaced magic... [Archive] - Wizards Community

If Psionics replaced magic... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DarthHobo
10-03-07, 12:06 PM I was having a discussion in a chatroom the other day, and I'm curious how this would work out.

So, you don't want any magic; you want psionics instead, as a change-of-pace setting. You've got the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Complete Psion and of course the Player's Handbook. What do you put in and what do you take out? What would be your available classes and races?

I'm thinking from the PHB, there's only three or four classes that can pass muster, since so many of them have a spell progression. :ahem: Fighter, rogue, barbarian and maybe monk. But if you add in the psion, the psychic warrior, the wilder, the soulknife, the lurk, the ardent and the divine mind, you've got a pretty good selection of classes again.

I'm also thinking that elves, dwarves, halflings---maybe gnomes, too---are too entrenched with the whole "classic" magic-based fantasy and I'd rather do without them. So from the PHB you've got human and.... maybe half-orc? But of course there's a bazillion racial options out there: which ones would you use?

Also; does this cover healing adequately, or do you have to make other considerations as a DM? I'm OK doing that; playing games other than D&D has taught me long ago not to assume that there's a handy cleric that can heal all my wounds and even raise me from the dead with very little inconvenience, but having not really used psionics much, I'm not sure how well XPH plus Complete Psion cover that ground, and I'd certainly want to know.
InkBlot
10-03-07, 12:29 PM Only the Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, and Cleric would be nixed.

Ranger gets non-spellcasting variant. Paladin is axed and replaced with Crusader. Bard loses spellcasting but gains psionic powers. Everyone who gains spell-likes gains similar psi-likes instead.

As for races, only the elf is axed. That's just because I don't like elves. In every game I've run, elves were creepy sadistic freaks who hide in a demiplane on the ethereal because humanity kicked their arse a couple thousand years ago. ANYWAY, gnomes would get psi-like abilities to replace their spell-likes, or perhaps Hidden Talent as a bonus feat.

Of course, that's just the PHB.

3.5 Mind's Eye material, and select 3.0 Mind's Eye material, would be available. Notably the PsyRogue, the variant Psywars, Wilders, Psions, and Soulknives. The Spell-to-Power Erudite would of course be useless.

The Divine Mind would also be axed. Out of the Complete base classes, only the Lurk, Ardent, Erudite, and Warlock (Psi-like abilities) would be available.

Tome Of Battle, Incarnum, and Pact Magic (Tome Of Magic) would also be available. Those are all supernatural at most, and all have ties to psionics.

All the races from the XPH and the Synad would be available. All four Eberron races (Warforged, Shifters, Changelings, and Kalashtar) would be available. Warforged can be made just as easily with psionics. Shifters have nothing to do with magic or psionics. Changelings are descended froma psionic monster, and Kalashtar are naturally psionic.

EDIT: One more thing! Real psionic healing powers.

Cure Wounds
Psychometabolism (Healing)
Level: Egoist 1, Life 1
Display: Auditory and visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half (harmless); see text
Power Resistance: Yes (harmless); see text
Power Points: 1

When laying your hand upon a living creature, you take control of it's natural healing processes to cure 1d8 + 2 points of damage.
At your option, you can use this power to deal damage to the target instead of curing its wounds. The target can apply power resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

Augment: You can manifest this power in one or both of the following ways.
1. For every 2 additional power points you spend, this power cures or inflicts an additional 1d8 + 2 hit points.
2. If you spend 8 additional power points, the range of this power becomes close and it can affect one creature per manifester level, no two of which can be more than 30 feet apart. You can choose to deal damage to any individual creatures than curing them. Each affected creature may attempt a Will save for half damage.

Heal
Psychometabolism (Healing)
Level: Egoist 6, Life 6
Display: Auditory and visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Power Resistance: Yes (harmless)
Power Points: 11

Heal enables you to channel positive psychic vibrations into a creature to wipe away injury and afflictions. It immediately ends any and all of the following adverse conditions affecting the target: ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned. It also cures 110 hit points of damage.

Heal does not remove negative levels, restore permanently drained levels, or restore permanently drained ability score points.

At your option, you can instead use this power to deal 110 points of damage. If the creature successfully saves, you deal half this amount and you cannot reduce the target’s hit points to less than 1.

Augment: For every additional power point you spend, this power heals or causes an additional 10 hit points of damage.

Mass Heal
Psychometabolism (Healing)
Level: Egoist 9, Life 9
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: One or more living creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart

This spell functions like heal, except as noted here. This power restores 250 hit points to each creature. At your option, it can instead deal that much damage to any or all affected creatures.

Augment: For every additional power point you spend, this power heals or causes an additional 10 hit points of damage.
Fraglan
10-03-07, 12:30 PM Get Complete Warrior and use the Spell-less Variants for the Paladin and Ranger.

Can Clerics, Druids, Wizards, Sorcerers and Bards.

Replace all Use Magic Device class skills with Use Psionic Device.

I'd leave all the core races. Give Gnomes a bonus on Metacreativity powers instead of Illusions. Elves can keep their Charm bonus, just can the Sleep bonus, maybe give some kind of misc bonus against Telepathy powers instead.

Add in all the standard Psionic classes. Bump Touch of Health (the +2 HP per PP power) to +3 HP per PP (makes a little more inline with Cleric healing. Since it is a static number instead of a variable, I made it a little less)

Did I miss anything?
DarthHobo
10-03-07, 02:12 PM The point isn't to bash psionics into the classic D&D feel, it's to design a D&D campaign based on the premise of psionics as is instead.

In my opinion, the classic Tolkien-based races are too intimately tied with the classic, magic-based D&D feel, so I'd rather do without them, use humans and some of the XPH races, and handpick a few others.
rilem
10-03-07, 03:36 PM Halflings worked pretty well in Dark Sun ... That wasn't especially Tolkienesque.

Also, several of the races in XPH are junk.

For my money I'd use:

Races
Dwarves (Duergar)
Halflings
Humans
Dromites
Elan
Half-Giants
Warforged

(Gith races and Thri-Kreen I'd keep as limited options).

Elves would be monsters, as suggested earlier, the last vestiges of magic-using creatures on the Prime, plotting a way to return mysticism to power.

For classes:
Ardent, Barbarian, Crusader, Fighter, Lurk, Ninja, Psion, Psychic Warrior, Rogue, Scout, Swordsage, Totemist (if magical beasts are allowed), Warblade
DarthHobo
10-03-07, 04:58 PM Alright, I'm living up to my threat and "Ray Winningering" this idea. (Note: I made this thread on another board where I cross-posted the idea.) Here's the Index page. http://www.freewebs.com/jdyal/psion/index.html
sijigs
10-03-07, 09:19 PM As for races, only the elf is axed. That's just because I don't like elves. In every game I've run, elves were creepy sadistic freaks who hide in a demiplane on the ethereal because humanity kicked their arse a couple thousand years ago. damage.

hahaha
Fraglan
10-04-07, 12:11 AM The point isn't to bash psionics into the classic D&D feel, it's to design a D&D campaign based on the premise of psionics as is instead.

In my opinion, the classic Tolkien-based races are too intimately tied with the classic, magic-based D&D feel, so I'd rather do without them, use humans and some of the XPH races, and handpick a few others.

That's pure flavor. Flavor can be changed.

I make Elves master Telepaths and Seers, personally.
TheKeyofE
10-04-07, 12:30 AM Didn't Dark Sun have elves? But they were bigger, stronger, and less magicky.
GuardianLurker
10-04-07, 12:40 AM I was having a discussion in a chatroom the other day, and I'm curious how this would work out.

So, you don't want any magic; you want psionics instead, as a change-of-pace setting. You've got the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Complete Psion and of course the Player's Handbook. What do you put in and what do you take out? What would be your available classes and races?

I'm thinking it would look something like this. (http://darelth.scribblewiki.com) (To be fair, that's my own campaign.)

I went much more radical than you (swapping in AE for the PHB), but the basic thrust is the same. I also added Untapped Potential.

Here's the ruleset:
Arcana Evolved (no races, no spellcasting classes)
XPH (All the classes, Humans, Xeph)
Complete Psion (Ardent, Lurk, Erudite)
Untapped Potential
DMG
Complete Warrior
Complete Adventurer (Scout)
Complete Mage (Warlock)
Races of Destiny (Sharakim, aka "Smart Orcs")
Races of Stone (Goliath)
Tome of Magic: Shadow

and a bunch of others that aren't germain to the discussion.
Scion of Coldshard
10-04-07, 03:12 PM I've been wanting to run a psuedo-gestalt* game with the only character classes allowed coming from the 3.5 psionics handbook, complete psionic, magic of incarnum, and the ToB.. I think it would actually work out pretty decently overall.

The healing potential is a little on the low side.. but I dont really care about that, there are so many work arounds it is silly. At least for out of combat healing, if people are extra stressed in combat to come up with just the right healing for the situation I have no problem with that ;) (and really, it could be as easy as someone switching to martial spirit attacking as much as possible to buff up some hp, possibly with other team members giving bonus attacks through various means as well..).

It just seems very fun.. Unfortunately I am generally so busy with work that either I dont have enough time for it or would forget important details and the world itself would suffer ;/

*psuedo-gestalt in the people would have a few choices during character creation.. game would start at level 3, they could either be a gestalt character with a 22 point buy or a normal character with 32 point buy. Any character could take a voluntary LA +1 (up to twice) for 10 more point buy points. I've run gestalt games before and generally the extra ability ranges from and equivalent of LA <+0.5 to ~LA +2 at level 14 where that game stopped.. 10 less point buy points and being slightly lower than the norm fits pretty nicely into that curve through the parts I am worried about.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarthHobo 10-03-07, 12:06 PM	I was having a discussion in a chatroom the other day, and I'm curious how this would work out. So, you don't want any magic; you want psionics instead, as a change-of-pace setting. You've got the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Complete Psion and of course the Player's Handbook. What do you put in and what do you take out? What would be your available classes and races? I'm thinking from the PHB, there's only three or four classes that can pass muster, since so many of them have a spell progression. :ahem: Fighter, rogue, barbarian and maybe monk. But if you add in the psion, the psychic warrior, the wilder, the soulknife, the lurk, the ardent and the divine mind, you've got a pretty good selection of classes again. I'm also thinking that elves, dwarves, halflings---maybe gnomes, too---are too entrenched with the whole "classic" magic-based fantasy and I'd rather do without them. So from the PHB you've got human and.... maybe half-orc? But of course there's a bazillion racial options out there: which ones would you use? Also; does this cover healing adequately, or do you have to make other considerations as a DM? I'm OK doing that; playing games other than D&D has taught me long ago not to assume that there's a handy cleric that can heal all my wounds and even raise me from the dead with very little inconvenience, but having not really used psionics much, I'm not sure how well XPH plus Complete Psion cover that ground, and I'd certainly want to know.
InkBlot 10-03-07, 12:29 PM	Only the Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, and Cleric would be nixed. Ranger gets non-spellcasting variant. Paladin is axed and replaced with Crusader. Bard loses spellcasting but gains psionic powers. Everyone who gains spell-likes gains similar psi-likes instead. As for races, only the elf is axed. That's just because I don't like elves. In every game I've run, elves were creepy sadistic freaks who hide in a demiplane on the ethereal because humanity kicked their arse a couple thousand years ago. ANYWAY, gnomes would get psi-like abilities to replace their spell-likes, or perhaps Hidden Talent as a bonus feat. Of course, that's just the PHB. 3.5 Mind's Eye material, and select 3.0 Mind's Eye material, would be available. Notably the PsyRogue, the variant Psywars, Wilders, Psions, and Soulknives. The Spell-to-Power Erudite would of course be useless. The Divine Mind would also be axed. Out of the Complete base classes, only the Lurk, Ardent, Erudite, and Warlock (Psi-like abilities) would be available. Tome Of Battle, Incarnum, and Pact Magic (Tome Of Magic) would also be available. Those are all supernatural at most, and all have ties to psionics. All the races from the XPH and the Synad would be available. All four Eberron races (Warforged, Shifters, Changelings, and Kalashtar) would be available. Warforged can be made just as easily with psionics. Shifters have nothing to do with magic or psionics. Changelings are descended froma psionic monster, and Kalashtar are naturally psionic. EDIT: One more thing! Real psionic healing powers. Cure Wounds Psychometabolism (Healing) Level: Egoist 1, Life 1 Display: Auditory and visual Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Living creature touched Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Will half (harmless); see text Power Resistance: Yes (harmless); see text Power Points: 1 When laying your hand upon a living creature, you take control of it's natural healing processes to cure 1d8 + 2 points of damage. At your option, you can use this power to deal damage to the target instead of curing its wounds. The target can apply power resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage. Augment: You can manifest this power in one or both of the following ways. 1. For every 2 additional power points you spend, this power cures or inflicts an additional 1d8 + 2 hit points. 2. If you spend 8 additional power points, the range of this power becomes close and it can affect one creature per manifester level, no two of which can be more than 30 feet apart. You can choose to deal damage to any individual creatures than curing them. Each affected creature may attempt a Will save for half damage. Heal Psychometabolism (Healing) Level: Egoist 6, Life 6 Display: Auditory and visual Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Living creature touched Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Power Resistance: Yes (harmless) Power Points: 11 Heal enables you to channel positive psychic vibrations into a creature to wipe away injury and afflictions. It immediately ends any and all of the following adverse conditions affecting the target: ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned. It also cures 110 hit points of damage. Heal does not remove negative levels, restore permanently drained levels, or restore permanently drained ability score points. At your option, you can instead use this power to deal 110 points of damage. If the creature successfully saves, you deal half this amount and you cannot reduce the target’s hit points to less than 1. Augment: For every additional power point you spend, this power heals or causes an additional 10 hit points of damage. Mass Heal Psychometabolism (Healing) Level: Egoist 9, Life 9 Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Targets: One or more living creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart This spell functions like heal, except as noted here. This power restores 250 hit points to each creature. At your option, it can instead deal that much damage to any or all affected creatures. Augment: For every additional power point you spend, this power heals or causes an additional 10 hit points of damage.
Fraglan 10-03-07, 12:30 PM	Get Complete Warrior and use the Spell-less Variants for the Paladin and Ranger. Can Clerics, Druids, Wizards, Sorcerers and Bards. Replace all Use Magic Device class skills with Use Psionic Device. I'd leave all the core races. Give Gnomes a bonus on Metacreativity powers instead of Illusions. Elves can keep their Charm bonus, just can the Sleep bonus, maybe give some kind of misc bonus against Telepathy powers instead. Add in all the standard Psionic classes. Bump Touch of Health (the +2 HP per PP power) to +3 HP per PP (makes a little more inline with Cleric healing. Since it is a static number instead of a variable, I made it a little less) Did I miss anything?
DarthHobo 10-03-07, 02:12 PM	The point isn't to bash psionics into the classic D&D feel, it's to design a D&D campaign based on the premise of psionics as is instead. In my opinion, the classic Tolkien-based races are too intimately tied with the classic, magic-based D&D feel, so I'd rather do without them, use humans and some of the XPH races, and handpick a few others.
rilem 10-03-07, 03:36 PM	Halflings worked pretty well in Dark Sun ... That wasn't especially Tolkienesque. Also, several of the races in XPH are junk. For my money I'd use: Races Dwarves (Duergar) Halflings Humans Dromites Elan Half-Giants Warforged (Gith races and Thri-Kreen I'd keep as limited options). Elves would be monsters, as suggested earlier, the last vestiges of magic-using creatures on the Prime, plotting a way to return mysticism to power. For classes: Ardent, Barbarian, Crusader, Fighter, Lurk, Ninja, Psion, Psychic Warrior, Rogue, Scout, Swordsage, Totemist (if magical beasts are allowed), Warblade
DarthHobo 10-03-07, 04:58 PM	Alright, I'm living up to my threat and "Ray Winningering" this idea. (Note: I made this thread on another board where I cross-posted the idea.) Here's the Index page. http://www.freewebs.com/jdyal/psion/index.html
sijigs 10-03-07, 09:19 PM	As for races, only the elf is axed. That's just because I don't like elves. In every game I've run, elves were creepy sadistic freaks who hide in a demiplane on the ethereal because humanity kicked their arse a couple thousand years ago. damage. hahaha
Fraglan 10-04-07, 12:11 AM	The point isn't to bash psionics into the classic D&D feel, it's to design a D&D campaign based on the premise of psionics as is instead. In my opinion, the classic Tolkien-based races are too intimately tied with the classic, magic-based D&D feel, so I'd rather do without them, use humans and some of the XPH races, and handpick a few others. That's pure flavor. Flavor can be changed. I make Elves master Telepaths and Seers, personally.
TheKeyofE 10-04-07, 12:30 AM	Didn't Dark Sun have elves? But they were bigger, stronger, and less magicky.
GuardianLurker 10-04-07, 12:40 AM	I was having a discussion in a chatroom the other day, and I'm curious how this would work out. So, you don't want any magic; you want psionics instead, as a change-of-pace setting. You've got the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Complete Psion and of course the Player's Handbook. What do you put in and what do you take out? What would be your available classes and races? I'm thinking it would look something like this. (http://darelth.scribblewiki.com) (To be fair, that's my own campaign.) I went much more radical than you (swapping in AE for the PHB), but the basic thrust is the same. I also added Untapped Potential. Here's the ruleset: Arcana Evolved (no races, no spellcasting classes) XPH (All the classes, Humans, Xeph) Complete Psion (Ardent, Lurk, Erudite) Untapped Potential DMG Complete Warrior Complete Adventurer (Scout) Complete Mage (Warlock) Races of Destiny (Sharakim, aka "Smart Orcs") Races of Stone (Goliath) Tome of Magic: Shadow and a bunch of others that aren't germain to the discussion.
Scion of Coldshard 10-04-07, 03:12 PM	I've been wanting to run a psuedo-gestalt* game with the only character classes allowed coming from the 3.5 psionics handbook, complete psionic, magic of incarnum, and the ToB.. I think it would actually work out pretty decently overall. The healing potential is a little on the low side.. but I dont really care about that, there are so many work arounds it is silly. At least for out of combat healing, if people are extra stressed in combat to come up with just the right healing for the situation I have no problem with that ;) (and really, it could be as easy as someone switching to martial spirit attacking as much as possible to buff up some hp, possibly with other team members giving bonus attacks through various means as well..). It just seems very fun.. Unfortunately I am generally so busy with work that either I dont have enough time for it or would forget important details and the world itself would suffer ;/ *psuedo-gestalt in the people would have a few choices during character creation.. game would start at level 3, they could either be a gestalt character with a 22 point buy or a normal character with 32 point buy. Any character could take a voluntary LA +1 (up to twice) for 10 more point buy points. I've run gestalt games before and generally the extra ability ranges from and equivalent of LA <+0.5 to ~LA +2 at level 14 where that game stopped.. 10 less point buy points and being slightly lower than the norm fits pretty nicely into that curve through the parts I am worried about.