Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Exner 07-15-07, 01:37 AM	what would it be? the dm nerfed polymorph like spells (including metamorphosis) to only work with 1 form. for example, metamorphosis: troll if you could only choose 1 form, what would it be? of course I have the otherworldly and metamorphic transfer feat...
PhaedrusXY 07-15-07, 03:48 AM	Beholder is pretty hard to beat...
siegfried1 07-15-07, 09:09 AM	Hi, I use willowwisp 90% of the time with a level 10 psion so I'd suggest that. Reasons: 1. Can fly 2. Can fly at 50 ft / round 3. Has AC 29. If combined with ectoplasmic skin +8 or inertial armor +9 plus force screen +4 that's beyond 40. 4. It's +9 dex bonus is the ideal basis for rays. A level 10 psion with base attack +5 plus +9 from the above dex can shoot rays +14 against touch AC which is 10-12 in most monster cases, making a crystal shard an unavoidable attack: touch hits, no save, no spell resistance, no DR troubles. 5. +9 dex also raises reflex saves by 9. And most psions are not good at reflex saves. :cool: Simple firepower: Go for 12headed pyro hydra. Blasts for 36d6 damage with metamorphic transfer 3 times / day. Stone: Gorgons.
Ryuoch 07-15-07, 10:35 AM	Beholder is pretty hard to beat... Just remember that beholders flight is an extraordinary ability that you don’t get if you polymorph into one. So if you don’t have another means to fly you’re just rolling on the ground, Firing UR Lazers!!
Exner 07-15-07, 12:16 PM	Just remember that beholders flight is an extraordinary ability that you don’t get if you polymorph into one. So if you don’t have another means to fly you’re just rolling on the ground, Firing UR Lazers!! lol
Exner 07-15-07, 12:19 PM	no outsider recomendations?
RadicalTaoist 07-15-07, 12:21 PM	Just remember that beholders flight is an extraordinary ability that you don’t get if you polymorph into one. So if you don’t have another means to fly you’re just rolling on the ground, Firing UR Lazers!! SHOOP DA WHOOP no outsider recomendations? MM3's Arrow Demon is pretty beastly.
siegfried1 07-15-07, 01:54 PM	no outsider recomendations? Normal metamorphosis doesn't allow for outsiders. :(
InkBlot 07-15-07, 02:00 PM	It does, but only if your character is normally an outsider. So if you're playing an assimar egoist, you can turn into an arrowhawk. If you're playing a half-orc egoist, you can not.
CrimsonDeath 07-15-07, 03:45 PM	I haven't tried this (or seen it tried) in-game, but a Bone Devil looks like a pretty good combat form. Good Str, good Dex, good Con, good natural armor, four natural weapons, and a roughly humanoid shape so you can probably still use most of your magic items. Its Fear Aura looks great for a Wilder, since it's Charisma-based.
sijigs 07-15-07, 05:42 PM	Nerfed to 1 form?! That's harsh!
zzo38 07-15-07, 05:47 PM	Are you allowed to learn the metamorphosis power multiple times to learn multiple forms?
sijigs 07-15-07, 06:15 PM	Are you allowed to learn the metamorphosis power multiple times to learn multiple forms? Even *that's* harsh!!!! LOL How about breaking it down to types?? Eg.. Aberration only.. or Elemental.
Shadrach_Storm 07-15-07, 10:57 PM	My monk/psion was pretty gross once he could turn into a Mountain Troll. High strength and con, ok dex, huge size, knockback, and the ability to still use all my magic items. That was the only form I ever needed.
sijigs 07-15-07, 11:38 PM	Yeah, had a monk that could turn into Stone Giant in 3.0 (not sure if this is now possible) and he p0wned big time. Although this example is situational. What if you're not a monk??
Exner 07-16-07, 12:14 AM	Normal metamorphosis doesn't allow for outsiders. :( this is true, but I have otherworldly, which makes the character an outsider. It does kind of suck having to restrict it to only 1 form, but it is better than nothing.
Christman 07-16-07, 12:45 AM	I really hate to say this, but. . . Sarrukh from the Serpent Kingdoms book in the Forgotten Realms series.
Shadrach_Storm 07-16-07, 01:19 AM	The monk part wasn't really significant. By that point I was using Claws of the Beast for my attacks and Inertial Armor generated a lot of my AC.
HarlequinHelsing 07-16-07, 01:32 AM	SHOOP DA WHOOP :rofl:
carnivore 07-16-07, 09:12 AM	if you have the Outsider type: Kelvezu(demon form) ...+15 Naturl Armor, 31 Dex , good Str and Con, and 8d6 Sneak Attack(EX) attack, Poison ability (EX) non-outsider(non Construct) type: as PhaedrusXY said...: Beholder Wartroll is nice also Gray Linolorn(dragon) ...excellent combat form, great poison attack, and flight if you are Warforged: Nimblewright ..... 24 dex, great (EX) attacks, good Natural armor Slaughterstone Eviserator .....+20 Natural Armor,good movement, good attacks, good Str :D
Tsuul 07-16-07, 11:35 AM	I really hate to say this, but. . . Sarrukh from the Serpent Kingdoms book in the Forgotten Realms series.I currently play the game with Exner, and if this is the choice, well, will I lose my LG status for killing his char just for that reason. I may be saving the world here, at the only point in time when it's possible.:P
Exner 07-16-07, 01:09 PM	I currently play the game with Exner, and if this is the choice, well, will I lose my LG status for killing his char just for that reason. I may be saving the world here, at the only point in time when it's possible.:P everyone will SUFFER! :P
chiefsheep 07-17-07, 08:24 AM	Hi, I use willowwisp 90% of the time with a level 10 psion so I'd suggest that. I really like this idea, but..... How do you get around only having a Str of 1 as a willowisp, unless your character goes around most of the time, you know, nekkid? :) (I get that your basic clothes don't count as weight/encumbrance, but just the few bits of usual stuff I tend to carry around will weigh more than 3lbs and put me straight into medium load. Per the SRD "Fly - A creature with a fly speed can move through the air at the indicated speed if carrying no more than a light load." Do you read (SRD again, Metamorphosis) "your equipment either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item in question) or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional." as saying that your stuff becomes part of you and its weight is ignored, ie that you could be carrying 200lbs of stuff, but when you turn into a willowisp you still only weigh 3 lbs?) Ta
Fleem 07-17-07, 10:43 AM	I really like this idea, but..... How do you get around only having a Str of 1 as a willowisp, unless your character goes around most of the time, you know, nekkid? :) (I get that your basic clothes don't count as weight/encumbrance, but just the few bits of usual stuff I tend to carry around will weigh more than 3lbs and put me straight into medium load. Per the SRD "Fly - A creature with a fly speed can move through the air at the indicated speed if carrying no more than a light load." Do you read (SRD again, Metamorphosis) "your equipment either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item in question) or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional." as saying that your stuff becomes part of you and its weight is ignored, ie that you could be carrying 200lbs of stuff, but when you turn into a willowisp you still only weigh 3 lbs?) Ta Since will-o'-wisps don't have any relevant body parts, all your equipment (including the 0-encumbrance clothes) would meld into the new form. And yes, all your stuff melds into your form at no extra weight. Even if it does add to your weight, your own body doesn't encumber you unless you inject some realism into D&D (fat = encumbrance). Another side benefit of metamorphosis: how many pickpockets will be able to cast dispel magic to get at your stuff?
Archtyrant Terevoth 07-17-07, 04:33 PM	Nerfed to 1 form?! That's harsh! Are you kidding?! Even with one form, the power is still over-the-top broke. Really, you should be glad if your DM is crazy enough (or stupid enough) to allow the polymorph mechanics at all. As far as metamorphosis nerfs go, this one is very tame.
Lycanthromancer 07-17-07, 05:48 PM	There's a 3.0 item called the wilding clasp in Masters of the Wild that costs 4000 gp that allows any object you're wearing to change shape and remain functional in alternate forms. That means that even if you don't have a head (such as with a will-o-wisp), you'll still be able to wear that Headband of Intellect +6. To my knowledge, it wasn't updated for 3.5, so it's still a viable item (as in, it hasn't been errata'd, so it's the official version still). I have a 10-year-old human egoist that uses his psicrystal to protect him, and it uses wilding clasps to equip items in metamorphosis'd forms, then when it reverts back to its diminutive-sized crystalline body, it still has them equipped and fully functional, despite being (normally) way too large for it to wear.
sijigs 07-17-07, 06:39 PM	Are you kidding?! Even with one form, the power is still over-the-top broke. Really, you should be glad if your DM is crazy enough (or stupid enough) to allow the polymorph mechanics at all. As far as metamorphosis nerfs go, this one is very tame. You're asking for a bite.. so I'll humor you. If your DM is crazy enough (or stupid enough) to let it go out of control, then anything can and will. :P Maybe you like living in a morphing-free and that's fine.. that's your opinion. I think it's one of the coolest things you can do and yes it needs a bit of tweaking but nerfing it to one form just down right sucks.
DisposableHero_ 07-17-07, 07:17 PM	Are you kidding?! Even with one form, the power is still over-the-top broke. Really, you should be glad if your DM is crazy enough (or stupid enough) to allow the polymorph mechanics at all. As far as metamorphosis nerfs go, this one is very tame.Not so actually. The nerf is harsh because it sucks all the fun out of the power. I would be happier playing metamorphosis if the DM had told me I gain no natural armor, no stat boosts, no new abilities, no natural weapons. In fact I'd rather play metamorph if it had no mechanical effect at all other than changing my appearance. One form is narrow and boring and sucks the fun and the concept out of it. If I were playing for a DM who wanted to bring out the nerf gun, I'd rather he aimed it at the broken rather than at my fun.
sijigs 07-17-07, 07:35 PM	One form is narrow and boring and sucks the fun and the concept out of it. If I were playing for a DM who wanted to bring out the nerf gun, I'd rather he aimed it at the broken rather than at my fun. As I said.. he's just asking for a bite. *yum yum*
CrimsonDeath 07-17-07, 09:21 PM	There's a 3.0 item called the wilding clasp in Masters of the Wild that costs 4000 gp that allows any object you're wearing to change shape and remain functional in alternate forms. That means that even if you don't have a head (such as with a will-o-wisp), you'll still be able to wear that Headband of Intellect +6. To my knowledge, it wasn't updated for 3.5, so it's still a viable item (as in, it hasn't been errata'd, so it's the official version still). It was updated in the Magic Item Compendium, although that version specifically mentions Wild Shape. However, it works on any item, while the earlier version I'd seen only worked for amulets and either cloaks or vests.
ThkkBldstrm 07-18-07, 01:03 AM	Vorpal Rat (I know, not helpful) ::sighs:: um... truthfully, I don't have any monster manuals handy (just XPH and Complet Psionic) but a neolithid looks spiffy (and by spiffy, I mean "Oh my god, that things going to kill me. Help me, help me. Ahhhg, I'm dead.") Not that I've ever actually fought one so I'm not sure how terrible it is...um as for 15HD creature or less... (with what I have handy) Thought Slayer looks cool. In any event I'll just say that I personally don't like that rule, but I'm sure it could have been worse...
Exner 07-18-07, 10:05 AM	what about a lantern archon? would that be a good choice? do you get the special qualities? Aura of menace, damage reduction 10/evil and magic, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to electricity and petrification, magic circle against evil, teleport, tongues with metamorphic transfer and otherworldly?
carnivore 07-18-07, 12:13 PM	no... notice: Metamorphosis (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicPowersGtoP.html#metamorphosis) Metamorphosis Psychometabolism Level: Egoist 4 Display: Material and olfactory Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 min./level (D) for a creature; 1 hour/level (D) for an object Power Points: 7 You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form, or any other type except construct, elemental, outsider, and undead. The assumed form can have as many Hit Dice as your manifester level, to a maximum of 15. You can’t assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you assume an incorporeal, ectoplasmic, or gaseous form. You cannot take the form of any creature that has a template. Your type and subtype (if applicable) change to match the new form. Upon changing, you regain lost hit points as if you had rested for a night (though this healing does not restore ability damage and provide other benefits of resting; and changing back does not heal you further). If you are slain while under the effect of this power, you revert to your original form, though you remain dead. You gain the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retain your own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. You also gain all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form (such as constrict, improved grab, and poison) but do not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form (such as blindsense, fast healing, regeneration, and scent) or any supernatural, psionic, or spell-like abilities. You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and special qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have, if any. You keep all extraordinary special attacks and special qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any benefits of the racial traits of your normal form. If you have a template, special abilities it provides are likewise not retained. If the assumed form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any manifesting ability you had in your original form. You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws or a bite), racial bonuses on skill checks, racial bonus feats, and any anatomical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal. You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that type. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s species. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race. If you use this power to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check. When the change occurs, your equipment either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item in question) or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your normal form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and can’t wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms (mouth, hands, or the like) at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its normal form. You can also use this power to assume the form of an inanimate object. You gain the object’s hardness and retain your own hit points. You can take the shape of almost any simple object you can think of. If you attempt to take the form of a complex object, you must make an appropriate skill check.. If you fail the check, your manifestation of the power does not succeed. Likewise, you cannot take the form of a complex mechanical mechanism unless you have some sort of skill associated with the object. You cannot use this power to assume the form of a psionic item or a magic item, or any object with a hardness of 15 or higher. You also cannot take the form of a psionically animated mechanism or any object formed of ectoplasm. As an inanimate object, you lose all mobility. You retain your normal senses and your ability to speak. You can manifest a power if you make a Concentration check (DC 20 + power level); however, doing so ends the duration of this power. If you take damage while in the form of an object, your actual body also takes damage (but the object’s hardness, if any, protects you). also notice: Things you get Bolded in Black...... things you dont get in red...things you can get with Metamorphic Transfer in bolded in green Archon Traits: An archon possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). Darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision. Aura of Menace (Su): A righteous aura surrounds archons that fight or get angry. Any hostile creature within a 20-foot radius of an archon must succeed on a Will save to resist its effects. The save DC varies with the type of archon, is Charisma-based, and includes a +2 racial bonus. Those who fail take a –2 penalty on attacks, AC, and saves for 24 hours or until they successfully hit the archon that generated the aura. A creature that has resisted or broken the effect cannot be affected again by the same archon’s aura for 24 hours. Immunity to electricity and petrification. +4 racial bonus on saves against poison. Magic Circle against Evil (Su): A magic circle against evil effect always surrounds an archon (caster level equals the archon’s Hit Dice). (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an archon’s statistics block.) Teleport (Su): Archons can use greater teleport at will, as the spell (caster level 14th), except that the creature can transport only itself and up to 50 pounds of objects. Tongues (Su): All archons can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell (caster level 14th). This ability is always active. LANTERN ARCHON Small Outsider (Archon, Extraplanar, Good, Lawful) Hit Dice: 1d8 (4 hp) Initiative: +4 Speed: Fly 60 ft. (perfect) (12 squares) Armor Class: 15 (+1 size, +4 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 15 Base Attack/Grapple: +1/–8 Attack: Light ray +2 ranged touch (1d6) Full Attack: 2 light rays +2 ranged touch (1d6) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities Special Qualities: Aura of menace, damage reduction 10/evil and magic, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to electricity and petrification, magic circle against evil, teleport, tongues Saves: Fort +2 (+6 against poison), Ref +2, Will +2 Abilities: Str 1, Dex 11, Con 10, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 10 Skills: Concentration +4, Diplomacy +4, Knowledge (the planes) +2, Listen +4, Sense Motive +4, Spot +4 Feats: Improved Initiative Environment: A lawful good-aligned plane Organization: Solitary, pair, or squad (3–5) Challenge Rating: 2 Treasure: None Alignment: Always lawful good Advancement: 2–4 HD (Small) Level Adjustment: — Lantern archons appear as floating balls of light that glow about as brightly as a torch. Only their destruction can extinguish the glow, though they can try to hide it. Combat A lantern archon has little reason to get within melee range. It usually hovers just close enough to bring the enemy within its aura of menace, then blasts away with its light rays. Lantern archons prefer to concentrate on a single opponent, seeking to reduce enemy numbers quickly. Aura of Menace (Su): Will DC 12 negates. Light Ray (Ex): A lantern archon’s light rays have a range of 30 feet. This attack overcomes damage reduction of any type. Spell-Like Abilities: At will—aid, detect evil, continual flame. Caster level 3rd. :D
Exner 07-19-07, 08:03 PM	still, teleport is a really nice ability to have.. the others are not bad either... would you get the immunity?
CrimsonDeath 07-19-07, 09:27 PM	Ooh, I just had an idea. Phasm.
PhaedrusXY 07-20-07, 12:59 AM	Ooh, I just had an idea. Phasm.Yep. If you don't use the Polymorph errata, that is quite broken. The errata'd version has this instead of Shapechange, though: Alternate Form (Su) A phasm can assume any form of Large size or smaller as a standard action. A phasm can remain in its alternate form until it chooses to assume a new one or return to its natural form.
siegfried1 07-20-07, 02:48 AM	Dont forget you only get ONE Su ability three times a day, not all of them and you have to pick one (unless you take the feat multiple times).
Ganthrinor 07-20-07, 08:20 AM	I'd choose the Aurumvorax hands down every time if it ever makes it into 3e, but barring that I'd go for something like a Umber Hulk.
entropysoda 07-21-07, 07:01 AM	I am exner's dm. he is not giving all of the info. We are using Untapped Potential: New Horizons in Psionics. (Dreamscarred Press ) so...refer to that book Formbound p.103, Assume ability and assume form pp.110-111 Say he imprints a will-o-wisp. He will NOT gain the flight, nor the deflection bonus to ac.
Exner 07-21-07, 11:28 AM	to be fair, i posted this before i proposed to you using the Untapped Potential fix--formbound, when you said I had to use only 1 form limit metamorphosis. and i think the will-o-wisp flight is considered mundane--it does not have Su or Ex next to it.
Fafnir 07-21-07, 11:38 AM	I am exner's dm. he is not giving all of the info. We are using Untapped Potential: New Horizons in Psionics. (Dreamscarred Press ) so...refer to that book Formbound p.103, Assume ability and assume form pp.110-111 Say he imprints a will-o-wisp. He will NOT gain the flight, nor the deflection bonus to ac. Aaaaah! Now it makes sense... I knew there was something missing.
entropysoda 07-21-07, 06:29 PM	I may be wrong about the flight...