Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Mess 04-02-08, 04:56 PM	Is there anyway around the "Immune to Mind Affecting" trait? I'm converting a telepath from another setting into D&D, and undead (etc.) being immune to mind-affecting could seriously hamper her style. I don't mind skeletons and other mindless undead being immune, but if it's got a brain, it should be influenced by telepathy, in my not noticeably humble opinion. So, is there any official way around it? The closest I've seen is the "Song of the Undead" feat (might not have quite the right name) from Dragon Compendium, interpreted through a sufficiently liberal reading of the transparency rules, but that's 3rd party and subject to much DM fiating.
The_Ditto 04-02-08, 05:24 PM	Is there anyway around the "Immune to Mind Affecting" trait? Fireball? I'm converting a telepath from another setting into D&D, and undead (etc.) being immune to mind-affecting could seriously hamper her style. Ahh, ok, Energy Ball ... I don't mind skeletons and other mindless undead being immune, but if it's got a brain, it should be influenced by telepathy, in my not noticeably humble opinion. True .. however, you wanna point out where that wraith keeps his "brain" ? uh ... incorporeal and all ... not much physical substance, ergo, not much "brain". Just because it isn't mindless, just because it has an INT, doesn't mean it has a "brain" ... So, is there any official way around it? Not that I know of .. and personally, I hope there isn't .. ;)
Lycanthromancer 04-02-08, 05:28 PM	My powers revision has changed shatter mind blank to render non-mindless creatures vulnerable to mind-affecting effects. While you're under its effects, such creatures get PR against your powers, instead. If you can't use 3rd party support, you're pretty well stuck, since no official way allows a telepath to do such things. This is why astral construct is one of the best powers for a telepath to learn via Expanded Knowledge (as they're pretty well immune to any undead abilities, as well as the mind-affecting effects from enchanters and other telepaths, which is great for mind-bender duels).
The_Mess 04-02-08, 07:14 PM	True .. however, you wanna point out where that wraith keeps his "brain" ? uh ... incorporeal and all ... not much physical substance, ergo, not much "brain". Just because it isn't mindless, just because it has an INT, doesn't mean it has a "brain" ... Then I'll rephrase: If it has a *mind* it shouldn't be immune to mind-affecting without some justification (mind-blank or something similar). I just don't see why vampires being undead should make them immune. I'd give them a really good will save, to be sure, but not immunity.
Ninja_Ferret 04-02-08, 07:20 PM	The thing with vampires is that they are undead. Technechly their brains dont work. So trying to mess with something that doesnt work wont help ya.
CrimsonDeath 04-02-08, 07:31 PM	The thing with vampires is that they are undead. Technechly their brains dont work. So trying to mess with something that doesnt work wont help ya. Elementals, on the other hand, don't technically have brains, but they are subject to mind-affecting effects.
Ninja_Ferret 04-02-08, 07:33 PM	ah ya got me there. :-p
The_Mess 04-02-08, 07:45 PM	The thing with vampires is that they are undead. Technechly their brains dont work. So trying to mess with something that doesnt work wont help ya. Applying that level of scientific accuracy to the game isn't a good idea. I mean, "technically", brains don't communicate with each other directly, so telepathy doesn't work in the first place. Any combination of "technically" and "vampire" is starting off on the wrong foot. : - )
AntiDjinn 04-02-08, 07:48 PM	A typical solution is just to think your way around the problem. Undead are immune to mind-affecting, does this mean everything else on the planet is immune to mind-affecting? Does this mean an undead creature will automatically win a fight against anything that doesn't share this immunity? No? Then mind control something that isn't immune and make it beat up the undead for you. Let that lunk-head of a fighter suffer the disease and negative levels, if he dies then grab another. Rinse and repeat.
Lycanthromancer 04-02-08, 07:58 PM	A typical solution is just to think your way around the problem. Undead are immune to mind-affecting, does this mean everything else on the planet is immune to mind-affecting? Does this mean an undead creature will automatically win a fight against anything that doesn't share this immunity? No? Then mind control something that isn't immune and make it beat up the undead for you. Let that lunk-head of a fighter suffer the disease and negative levels, if he dies then grab another. Rinse and repeat.Muahahaha?
The_Mess 04-02-08, 09:06 PM	If there's a handy meat-shield around, sure, but that's not always convenient, especially if you're caught alone or the only meat-shields around are already likely to be fighting him.
Ninja_Ferret 04-02-08, 09:14 PM	Use abilities the dont require them to have a mind. Lots of psion powers dont need them to have a mind. Crystal shards is one.
turalisj 04-02-08, 10:10 PM	ALWAYS. BRING. DISINTIGRATE. Seriously, it's one of the best powers out there to use. Plus, who wouldn't want to shout 'special beam cannon!' as they launch the power at their target?
AntiDjinn 04-02-08, 10:56 PM	If there's a handy meat-shield around, sure, but that's not always convenient, especially if you're caught alone or the only meat-shields around are already likely to be fighting him. Bring one with you. The duration on Domination can be pushed to days. Don't count on the DM to bail you out by providing a patsy right next to every challenging monster. You have to plan ahead and provide your own solutions to your character's shortcomings instead of expecting the encounter to always contain a solution that works for you. If your DM won't let you drag dominated trolls around, then spend a feat on Astral Construct. They are the telepath's favorite bodyguard. An AC can go toe to toe with undead of similar level since they are immune to fear, disease, negative energy, energy drain, stat drain, and necromantic effects. They are also your best bet if your opponent is another telepath.
sijigs 04-02-08, 11:19 PM	If you're blessed with a high Dex.. bring a magical crossbow.. *p-toing!!!* :D