Post/Author/DateTime	Post
protosswarrior 09-09-07, 07:58 PM	in CP, you have acsess to series of "ithilid heritage feats". my question is, since mind flayers reproduce though spawning/cermeophorsis*, how can they have kids? *for those who don't know what i'm talking about: -Illithids are hermaphroditic creatures who each spawn a mass of larvae twice in their life. The larvae resemble miniature illithid heads or four-tentacled tadpoles. Larvae are left to develop in the pool of the Elder Brain. The ones that survive are inserted into the brain of a sentient creature. A human gives best results. Upon being implanted, the larva then grows and consumes the host's brain, absorbing the host's physical form entirely and becoming sentient itself, a mature Illithid. This process is called Ceremorphosis.
Jaid 09-09-07, 08:10 PM	actually, iirc the resulting ilithid is actually not fully "mature". (an ilithid is considered mature when it has it's first thrall, iirc, and takes a while to fully develop it's psionic powers after it's "birth" if you wish to call it that). in any case, you're absolutely right. ilithid heritage is dumb, and makes no sense whatsoever. proposed solutions include the possibility that someone in your ancestry was experimented on by mind flayers, or that mind flayers actually have heritage feats of you =P (ie, you're the mind flayer's ancestor... after all, mind flayers come from the future)
CrimsonDeath 09-09-07, 08:42 PM	or that mind flayers actually have heritage feats of you =P I believe that theory was first set forth in Soviet Russia.
Thomar_of_Uointer 09-09-07, 08:44 PM	in CP, you have acsess to series of "ithilid heritage feats". my question is, since mind flayers reproduce though spawning/cermeophorsis*, how can they have kids? *for those who don't know what i'm talking about: -Illithids are hermaphroditic creatures who each spawn a mass of larvae twice in their life. The larvae resemble miniature illithid heads or four-tentacled tadpoles. Larvae are left to develop in the pool of the Elder Brain. The ones that survive are inserted into the brain of a sentient creature. A human gives best results. Upon being implanted, the larva then grows and consumes the host's brain, absorbing the host's physical form entirely and becoming sentient itself, a mature Illithid. This process is called Ceremorphosis. This has been covered in another thread (which you can find with the forum search tool once you've made enough posts fo qualify to use it). Since illithids are actually psionically mutated humans from the future who travelled back in time, it's possible for a person to have illithid descendants. Thus, you can say the illithid heritage feats mean that the person's descendants are going to be illithids, and then it makes sense.
sijigs 09-09-07, 08:49 PM	Unless you're a warforged.
Yorath_theWolf 09-09-07, 09:29 PM	the explaination I use, simple you aren't so much the 'x' number of times removed offspring of an ithilid. no you're the result of partially successfull experimentations done with the tadpoles.
ArgulFraster 09-09-07, 09:35 PM	I have the answer to everything. GREEN! I never said it would make sense.
ZeronHitaro 09-09-07, 09:48 PM	I talked about this ages ago when the issue first came up. Here's some of the theories I concocted. Bingo! That just gave me an idea. The group of Illithids who attempt to snuff out the sun realize that in X ammount of years the sun will transform into a Red Giant, henceforth destroying the very planet they want to rule. As a responce, they work tirelessly over the decades amasing Psionic power which is then used to draw in countless objects of mass such as meteors, comets, planets, other stars, ect. This phenominon would be marked by an increasing number of "meteor showers" seen at night as all this mass rockets by Earth and into the sun. Once all the mass as been gathered into sun, the Illithid's can: A. Wait until the sun goes Nova B. Time Hop, Mass the entire planet to the point where the sun has already become a Black Hole C. Do something to accelerate the sun's decay. The end result is the same, the sun collapses and becomes a Black Hole, since gravity doesn't change, the Earth doesn't get sucked in. However since the Black Hole is sucking up all light in the area, the Earth would be plunged into darkness. Here's another twist. Sci-Fi/Semi Scientific Point: No one knows what happens in a Black Hole. Some say you can travel through time, others claim it's a different dimension. But what sort of beings live in this other dimension if that's where a Black Hole goes? Maybe this Dark Power the Illithid's were afraid of came forth from the Black Hole as a result of their own actions. Ah, but this is where Illthid Heritage solves that problem. Their origin point is that a very minute % of humans carry the gene in their DNA that transforms them into Illithids. Since in D&D there's no such thing as Genetic Testing, there's no way anyone man or god could know they carried this gene. Now I say small percentage, so let's say...3.2% of the world's population and assume the population is 2.2 million. That's about 72400 Illithids. Now let's assume it's due to a certain type of Magic stigma in the enviroment that causes this gene to be created. This stigma also has the side effect of making the land more fertile, hence it makes since that a Kingdom would be build upon it. Since this is a gene mutation, it requires a certain catalyist to activate. So if everyone (72400) people in this kingdom has this mutation due to the enviroment and the catalyist needed for the transformation occurs, the world would suddenly and unexplainably find itself with 72400 Illithids. At this point the Illithids that had been hiding for the past decades could come out from the underground, and the first Historically known Illithid society would be formed. Since everyone in this kingdom was transformed, no one would know when, why, or how it happened. Giving the Illithid's their creation origin. Plot Hole now covered: You might ask, well if the magic in that environment makes people inherit the gene to become Illithids, won't anyone entering the area have a chance at becoming Illithid after the original birth of 72400 Illithids? No, and here's an explanation why. The catalyist that creates the original 72400 Illithids also draws the Magic out of the land and implants it into the Illithids, creating the power we've all come to know and fear...Mind Blast. Illithid Heratige: Only a character born in X Kingdom will have been exposed to the magical stigma which results in the altering of their genes. Then when the catalyist effects the PC (the catalyist would probably be exposure to Psionic powers, either by gaining them or being hit with a Psionic manifestation), they then begin to take on the traits of what will be known in the future as Illithids. The first group of people to take on Illithid Heratige traits will then begin construction on an Illithid society, creating the first historically documented Elder Brain, and from there make the breeding pools where the first true Illithids would be born. Addition: After the weaker Illithids went back in time, they survived in very little numbers as every time their population exceeded a certain ammount it became easier for adventures to hunt them down and kill them. (As they don't understand what they are and see them as simple brain eating monsters.) The Magical Stigma which creates the original Illthids has nothing to do with the ones from the future time traveling, and as there as very very few of the Future Illithids left due to being driven to near extinction by adventurers, they have little impact on the outcome of their own past. Yes a few true Illithids and an Elder Brain could potentially kill a few more foes once the society is established, but that wouldn't effect the origin point of the Illithids and have a very very minimal effect on history. In fact this would explain possiblity one of my thoery on why Illithids don't become more powerful as the group of Future Illithids who kept the knowledge of the Dark Force were killed, erasing the knowledge from Illithid History until the event repeated itself. Illithid History 125 A.D.: Sorceror X, the most powerful sorceror in history builds a massive underground lab and performs all kinds of experiments, resulting in his eventual death when a tremendous explosion destroys his workshop. As a result the earth deep under ground is saturated with wild magic, altering the chemical composition of the soil which makes it more fertile...but it also has a secondary side effect... 1300 A.D.: Over the centuries this Magical Stigma has worked it's way to the top soil of the region. Settlers move in and realize how fertile the land is, setting up an establishment soon to become known as the Kingdom of Y. 1450 A.D: The Kingdom of Y is at it's peak, thousands of citizens dwell within the castle city and in the farms surrounding it, unknown to them the Magical Stigma which makes the land so fertile has been gradually altering their genetic make-up (Illithid Heritage), all it needs is the right catalyist to activate... 1488 A.D.: Sage 1 after many years of hard meditation discovers Psionics, and further more learns the Manifestation known as Genesis. After experimentation he finds that Genesis can be used to turn dead land into fertile land, and thinks this effect can be used to amplify the already abnormally fetile land in the Kingdom of Y. This results in the catastropy which will create the Illithid Race. The Psionic power of Genesis destroys the entire fertile land in Y, not only that but the Psionic power reacts violently with the Magical Stigma inside every humanoid creature in the Kindgom of Y, causing the last alteration of the Genetic Structure needed to change humanoids into the first Illithids. As a secondary effect, all the Magical Stigma is drawn into the minds of these first Illithids, giving them the gift of Mind Blast. 1511 A.D.: The first Illithid society has been built upon the ruins of Kingdom Y, and the first Elder Brain and Breeding Pool have been finished, giving birth to the first True Illithids. 1998 A.D.: Illithid Society's first group of members seek to one day snuff out the sun, this idea is badly rejected by Illithid Society. 2.5 Million A.D: Illithids have conquered 45% of the known world. Through a mixture of Magic, Science, and Psionics. Illithids have discovered that in a few more million years, the sun will begin to die, transforming into a Red Giant which will encompass and destroy the Earth. The once shunned group of Illithids who planned to snuff out the sun is now given full support. 3.2 Million A.D: After many many milliena of gathering Psionic power, the Elder Brains begin shifting Planets, Stars, Comets, ect. into the sun to add mass to it, hoping it will go Nova. 4.9 Million A.D: As planned, the Sun goes Nova, creating a Black Hole which plunged Earth into darkness. However, this Black Hole also functions as a dimension door to another plane, from which an enemy known as the "Dark Force" comes forth and attacks Illithid Society. 4.95 Million A.D: The Dark Force has decimated 85% of the Illithid Society, as a last resort they send back 10 Illithid Adolecents and 1 Maturing Elder Brain in order to preserve Illithid Society. 800 A.D: The Illithids arrive at the past and try to set up a new colony, this proves difficult as wandering Adventurers keep happening upon Illithid settlements and destorying all they find after long battles. 1490 A.D: The last of the future Illithids make their way to the Kingdom of Y where the original Illithids are creating the society of all future Illithids. The last future Illithid collapses from wounds and is tended to by a small group of the original Illithid community who hear his last words. "Beware...the...sun..." Creating the time loop in which a few group of Illithids (slightly faster than the original time line) attempt to snuff out the sun. As before, they're rejected by society as they really have no good reason as to why they must do so until the point in the far future when the True Illithids discover the sun will destroy the earth. Human Timeline 802 A.D: First encounter with Illithids when an adventurer group stumbles upon one of the few settlements created by the Illithid refugees from the future. Only two of the 5 members make it back after a fierce battle. 1489 A.D: Knowledge about the Kingdom of Y becoming infested with squid-like humanoids becomes general knowledge, philosophers, sorceror, and historians alike search the world for information about these strange new foes. 1490 A.D: After two years of studying, the general concensous ,of all those who search for knowledge about the strange new creatures, is that they are a group that have been tainted in the bloodline by creatures known as Mind Flayers/Illithids. This conclusion being drawn from text documenting rare cause of adventures coming across colonies made by creatures that seem to fit the description of the monstrosities now inhabiting Kingdom Y from centuries long past. Short Version: The modern society mistakes the future Illithid refuges as the ancestors of the original Illithids.
DrowBattlemind 09-09-07, 10:11 PM	One idea is, well, rather icky, and may better be relegated to the 'Mature Topics' threads. Yes, Illithids make more Illithidae through ceremorphosis, but for that, they do reproduce like other species, in their case, sexual or asexual reproduction (since Illithids are hermaphroditic, they have the capacity for both); and Illithids are well-known for their inhuman thought processes and quasi-scientific experimentation, including various attempts to breed better thrall-slaves. Of all the Illithid creeds (detailed in 1998's TSR offering, the Illithiad), the more depraved members of the Creatives and the Abysmals may experiment in such a fashion, trying to breed slave-thralls that come to identify more with their Illithid owners than their own humanoid parent's species. Desperation could also play a part, in the case of a hive of Illithidae who's flayer larvae are dying due to disease before ceremorphosis can take place; a good example is the 'Mind Ripper' race from Green Ronin's Bastards And Bloodlines book.
CrimsonDeath 09-10-07, 01:41 PM	I have the answer to everything. GREEN! I thought that was the answer to the fourth question (6 x 12).
baltasar_basilius 09-10-07, 02:06 PM	I thought that was the answer to the fourth question (6 x 12). No no no, the answer is 42. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Answer_to_Life,_the_Universe,_and_Ev erything)
SlanderPanic 09-10-07, 02:31 PM	I've said before that I don't see any reason why illithids can't have sex. While their bodies would certainly have a diminished sex drive, I can see the hormonal flush from devouring a brain inspiring bouts of randiness. (Remember, flayers eat brains because their bodies need hormones that the illithid parasite cannot provide.) This may even be something that subsects of illithid culture actively seek, for whatever reasons (pleasure, deranged experimentation, etc.) Through sex with other creatures, illithids can pass on their tainted genetics. That's not even going into the possibilities of shapechanging magic and psionics. Shapechanging, after all, is one of the ways outsiders create half-fiends and half-celestials.
CrimsonDeath 09-10-07, 03:53 PM	No no no, the answer is 42. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Answer_to_Life,_the_Universe,_and_Ev erything) No, that's what you get when you multiply six by nine. Six times twelve is a trick question.
Fafnir 09-10-07, 04:13 PM	No, that's what you get when you multiply six by seven. Fixed. :rolleyes:
SlanderPanic 09-10-07, 04:40 PM	No, that's what you get when you divide by zero. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/Slanderpanic/zero.jpg
CrimsonDeath 09-10-07, 05:00 PM	Fixed. :rolleyes: Not fixed at all. (Hint: Try base 13. Or check the link (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Answer_to_Life,_the_Universe,_and_Ev erything).)
AntiDjinn 09-11-07, 03:13 AM	It works like this: At some point in the past they published The Illithid. This was an excellent treatment of the race and really put them the alien/inscrutable mode. This was followed by Lord of Madness, not as original as the first book, but the treatment of mind flayers was adequate. Then, for reasons unique to D&D, they decided to give their own source material the hentai tentacle treatment. Thus was minted the Illithid Heritage Feats whereby you could have an ancestor be an illithid, or (it actually makes more sense) you could yourself be of a lineage that will one day evolve into the illithid. And what better implementation could there be than to make this a feat? Because, obviously, if you decide you don't want to have an illithid be your grandfather anymore you should be able to remove him from your personal family tree with Psychic Reformation or retraining. And off course, they needed to add that Illithid Heritage feats are also psionic feats because it simply makes sense that someone using Feat Leech should be able to borrow your racial identity and cause one of his ancestors to have been an illithid for about 1 minute all those years ago.
Mesiolan 09-11-07, 10:02 AM	In our campaign, the Illithid Heritage feats are only gained by victims of illithid experimentation. They are closer to "fleshwarper feats" than "heritage feats". We put it this way, 'cause we all really enjoyed the Overmind campaign very much in 2nd ed times, and were "slightly" disappointed with the mind flayer treatment in CoPsi.
Scribbler 09-11-07, 02:23 PM	I've said before that I don't see any reason why illithids can't have sex. While their bodies would certainly have a diminished sex drive, I can see the hormonal flush from devouring a brain inspiring bouts of randiness. (Remember, flayers eat brains because their bodies need hormones that the illithid parasite cannot provide.) This may even be something that subsects of illithid culture actively seek, for whatever reasons (pleasure, deranged experimentation, etc.) Through sex with other creatures, illithids can pass on their tainted genetics. That's not even going into the possibilities of shapechanging magic and psionics. Shapechanging, after all, is one of the ways outsiders create half-fiends and half-celestials. There's that. Also, maybe a pregnant woman was targeted for Ceremorphosis, and her baby was somewhat warped but still born alive before the transformation was complete. Rare, but a possibility.
CrimsonDeath 09-11-07, 03:33 PM	There's that. Also, maybe a pregnant woman was targeted for Ceremorphosis, and her baby was somewhat warped but still born alive before the transformation was complete. Rare, but a possibility. So, like Blade, except with Illithid... The Illithid Daywalker!
Sarig the Genie 09-12-07, 09:15 AM	There's a "half"-illithid template in both Fiend Folio and the FR supplement Underdark, now the former is just creatures who've gotten the larva treatment, but didn't turn fully into illithids, but the latter in Underdark is due to illithids tampering with other species reproductive systems (magically altering genes perhaps?), it would probably be possible for these to breed and spread the 'lithness onwards.
SlanderPanic 09-12-07, 03:14 PM	There are all sorts of valid explanations for Illithid Heritage feats. Striking them down because of how illithids create other illithids is silly. I'm not saying they aren't badly-written, nor am I insinuating that they aren't a waste of feat slots and pages in Complete Psionic. Would I play a character with Illithid Heritage feats? Not likely. Do I think they're a fun idea that ended up suffering from bad execution? Certainly.
protosswarrior 09-12-07, 04:27 PM	(Remember, flayers eat brains because their bodies need hormones that the illithid parasite cannot provide.) ... i think ur confusing mind flayers w/ vemon (spiderman) Also, maybe a pregnant woman was targeted for Ceremorphosis, and her baby was somewhat warped but still born alive before the transformation was complete. Rare, but a possibility. considering that's the best answer i've heard, i'll go w/ that
Sagetim 09-12-07, 05:30 PM	... i think ur confusing mind flayers w/ vemon (spiderman) considering that's the best answer i've heard, i'll go w/ that wait wait...then you take the 'illithid daywalker' and turn him into a nymphomaniac. Then you have an explanation.
AntiDjinn 09-13-07, 10:42 AM	... i think ur confusing mind flayers w/ vemon (spiderman) SlanderPanic isn't confusing them with anything. What he mentioned is stated explicitly in Lords of Madness. The parasite that replaces the brain does not produce neurohormones. Without hormones from the pituitary-hypothalamic axis, your body would simply fall over and die. These hormones are the normal signals from the brain to a variety of body tissues and among the instructions they deliver is "maintain a basal metabolic rate", "maintain a appropriate levels of calcium, sodium, potassium", "keep on living." The reason illithids must eat brains, specifically, is to replace these physical hormones as well as for the psionic energy provided by consuming thoughts. They do eat other things as well, but have an absolute minimum requirement for brains.
SlanderPanic 09-13-07, 11:59 PM	It's around one brain every ten days or so, if I remember correctly. They eat other food for day-to-day nutritional requirements. Also, Venom never ate anyone's brain. He was all talk.
ZinFeir 09-19-07, 07:56 AM	My GM explained it to me as this: Illithids graft there slaves with tentacles and other assorted Illithid parts so they can work faster and/or work more efficiently. Over time these slaves had children who were born with said grafts. It made sense until I just tried to explain it just now. . .now I'm confused again.
Callix 09-19-07, 08:57 AM	Completely aside from the whole "Illithids have heritage of you" idea, an example of how poorly written the feats are is to look at the Illithid Blast feat. Then think. How many PP does this use? It explicitly says it uses PP, but then neglects to mention an amount. That sums up the amount of thought put into CPsi as a whole. Don't bother asking how they work fluffwise. They don't even work in crunch.
Sagetim 09-20-07, 09:09 PM	Completely aside from the whole "Illithids have heritage of you" idea, an example of how poorly written the feats are is to look at the Illithid Blast feat. Then think. How many PP does this use? It explicitly says it uses PP, but then neglects to mention an amount. That sums up the amount of thought put into CPsi as a whole. Don't bother asking how they work fluffwise. They don't even work in crunch. it doesn't say pp. It says 'once per day, you may expend your Psionic Focus to blah blah blah.' there is no mention of actual power points being spent to get the effect.
Scribbler 09-20-07, 09:25 PM	it doesn't say pp. It says 'once per day, you may expend your Psionic Focus to blah blah blah.' there is no mention of actual power points being spent to get the effect. "one per day as a standard action that requires the expentiture of your psionic focus, you can channel power points into" blah blah blah, actually.
Sagetim 09-21-07, 12:02 AM	"one per day as a standard action that requires the expentiture of your psionic focus, you can channel power points into" blah blah blah, actually. oh damn, you're right...I really should read more carefully. As for a power point cost? I'd say that the dm would probably have to adjucate one. It's not that strong, especially because it's a once per day thing and you already paid at least two feats to get it. It would be straight out mean to make it cost anything more than 3 or 5 pp. I think part of the feat got scratched though, it probably had an augment option during playtesting (thus, power points needed to be spent) that was later scrapped. It's sad that they never get someone who's not actually read the book yet to just sit down and circle the spelling errors and such. Hell, If I got to do that as a job I'd pounce on it.
ZeronHitaro 09-22-07, 04:15 PM	*ahem* Am I the only one who reads the monster manual and XPH? From MM, Mindflayer entry: Mind Blast: Treated as 4th level spell Magic to Psionics conversion: 4th level power. From XPH and SRD: 4th level power costs: 7PP Usual augmentation standard: 2 PP augmented = +1 DC Therefore: Mind Blast costs 7 PP with an augmentation of 2PP to increase the save DC by 1. I know they should've written it down directly in CP but come on guys. It's not rocket science to do some basic reverse engineering. ;)
Fafnir 09-22-07, 04:33 PM	*ahem* Am I the only one who reads the monster manual and XPH? From MM, Mindflayer entry: Mind Blast: Treated as 4th level spell Magic to Psionics conversion: 4th level power. From XPH and SRD: 4th level power costs: 7PP Usual augmentation standard: 2 PP augmented = +1 DC Therefore: Mind Blast costs 7 PP with an augmentation of 2PP to increase the save DC by 1. I know they should've written it down directly in CP but come on guys. It's not rocket science to do some basic reverse engineering. ;) How can you be sure it wasn't supposed to be a Psionic Blast (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicBlast.htm)? One shouldn't be required to reverse-engineer manuals... and even then, in this case it's completely ambiguous.
ZeronHitaro 09-22-07, 05:38 PM	How can you be sure it wasn't supposed to be a Psionic Blast (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicBlast.htm)? One shouldn't be required to reverse-engineer manuals... and even then, in this case it's completely ambiguous. Easy. Aside from contextual indications it says directly in the text: "...you can channel power points into a mind blast..." And in the book "mind blast" is italicized. It makes perfectly clear what blast it is. Also I might add that in this case the reverse engineering isn't that big of a deal. From a writer perspective; Reasonable Assumption: If you bought CP then you are familiar with the XPH and should know about transparency rules and how much powers cost per level. Reasonable Assumption: If you are wanting to take the Flayerspawn Psychic PrC you probably know what Mindflayers are to begin with and what their trademark ability is (mind blast). Reasonable Assumption: Someone in your gaming group has MM1. In short, anyone who wanted this book "technically" should know this already. But this is more or less semantics which can be debated into eternity as no one is right or wrong.
AntiDjinn 09-22-07, 10:27 PM	*ahem* Am I the only one who reads the monster manual and XPH? From MM, Mindflayer entry: Mind Blast: Treated as 4th level spell Magic to Psionics conversion: 4th level power. From XPH and SRD: 4th level power costs: 7PP Usual augmentation standard: 2 PP augmented = +1 DC Therefore: Mind Blast costs 7 PP with an augmentation of 2PP to increase the save DC by 1. I know they should've written it down directly in CP but come on guys. It's not rocket science to do some basic reverse engineering. ;) It is not that no one else has read the MM, just that no one else considered the possibility that the correct answer might be so colossally stupid. If 7 points is the correct answer -- and there is no reason to assume it is not, your reasoning is sound -- then Illithid Blast is truly an idiot test. If someone takes it, then you know they have a psionic moxie level on the order of people who thought 3.0 psionic combat was a bonus feature. Compare: You could spend a feat on Expanded Knowledge to learn Psionic Blast. Most would agree that this is a waste of a feat slot. Psionic Blast is on the general list, and is not all that hot a power anyway. If you spend 5 points to manifest the power, you might stun everyone in a 30 foot cone-shaped burst for 1 round. You can do this as many times per day as you have points and standard actions to spare. You don't need to expend focus unless you meta or take 15. Augmentation is +2 points for +1 round of stun. At least Expanded Knowledge has no feat prereqs, so you only spend one feat slot for a dubious benefit. If your total for Illithid Blast is correct, then once per day you can spend 7 points to possibly stun everyone in a mere 15 foot cone. You must expend your focus. The duration of stun is about the same as someone spending 7 points on Psionic Blast (2.5 rounds average, vs. 2 rounds) despite the inferior area of effect. You don't have the option to augment; normally racial psi-like abilities are augmented up to your effective manifester level for free, but Illithid Blast has no augmentation listed. As you point out, it references Mind Blast not Psionic Blast (and the mechanics don't match) so you can't apply Psionic Blast's augmentation schedule. Worst of all, it requires three Illithid Heritage feats as prereqs. Anyone who spends 4 feats to get an ability that is in almost all respects inferior to what others can get by overspending a single feat, definitely takes the gold in the psionic special olympics. Perhaps the authors had the 7 point cost listed for a 4th level effect (making it a psi-like ability with a cost, when the point is they are supposed to be free) then at the last second realized that the feat with no cost listed and practically unusable was still better than what it was actually intended.
ZeronHitaro 09-22-07, 11:26 PM	Your points are all valid, although I never have nor ever will claim that FP is the most effective/efficient of the Psionic PrCs out there. ;) Personally I think FP should be treated as a "flavor based" PrC for people who want to play Mindflayer characters without the massive LA+7, which is more crippling than this PrC can ever be IMO.
DrowBattlemind 09-23-07, 12:55 AM	My GM explained it to me as this: Illithids graft there slaves with tentacles and other assorted Illithid parts so they can work faster and/or work more efficiently. Over time these slaves had children who were born with said grafts. It made sense until I just tried to explain it just now. . .now I'm confused again. I'm going to try not to be insulting here, especially since we're talking about a fantasy realm, but please learn some basic biology: One cannot pass along acquired physical traits to ones offspring!!!! Russian agriculturalist Trofim Lysenko tried for decades to create poultry with "little Turkish turbans", by surgically attaching tiny turbans to chickens, roosters and turkeys, and breeding the mutilated animals with each other. Today, there are still no such animals. Before Lysenko, Biologist August Weismann surgically removed the tails of mice in an attempt to breed tail-less rodents, but there still is no such species of mouse. Genetic mutations can be passed down, since the changes occur at the genetic level, but Illithid grafts cannot, they function on the tissue/organ level. Horticulturalists graft limbs from one type of fruit tree to another all the time, producing plants (of a SINGLE generation) with the capacity of, say, bearing both apples and pears on the same tree, but those traits cannot be passed down; limbs continue to need grafting by tree-surgeons to replicate the ability in following generations. As for the "inheriting the gene that eventually causes evolution into Illithidae", one cannot 'inherit' a gene that has yet to evolve. Just because one of my descendants may evolve the survival trait of increased mellanin to cope with a world where there's no ozone layer to block elevated levels of Ultraviolet radiation doesn't mean that I'm going to wake up tomorrow looking like Mario Van Peebles, when I went to bed looking like a young Alan Rickman. Sorry, but it's just not scientifically feasible.
calronmoonflower 09-23-07, 01:21 AM	I'm going to try not to be insulting here, especially since we're talking about a fantasy realm, but please learn some basic biology: One cannot pass along acquired physical traits to ones offspring!!!! Actually that isn't quite right. You should state it as In the real world one cannot pass along acquired physical traits to ones offspring, unless the traits are the result of a genetic change. D&D has reference acquired traits being passed to offspring. Tibbits, lycantropes, and half-vampires are examples of such.
CrimsonDeath 09-23-07, 02:54 AM	Actually that isn't quite right. You should state it as In the real world one cannot pass along acquired physical traits to ones offspring, unless the traits are the result of a genetic change. D&D has reference acquired traits being passed to offspring. Tibbits, lycantropes, and half-vampires are examples of such. But aren't those all curses/diseases? It's certainly possible IRL to "inherit" a communicable disease from one's parents.
calronmoonflower 09-23-07, 03:44 AM	But aren't those all curses/diseases? It's certainly possible IRL to "inherit" a communicable disease from one's parents. Nope. Tibbits are the result of wizards familiars mating. It is an example of a magical transformation being not only passed down, but also amplified over several generations. Vampirism is neither a curse or a disease. Lychanthopes are the result of a curse, but is is a acquired physical trait. Also the offspring has the trait in a greater than a those that acquired it by infection. generally I think illithid feats are wrongly called heritage feats. They are instead a psionic corruption of the body.