Jade Phoenix... Psion? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Jade Phoenix... Psion? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ecalsneerg
03-18-08, 02:34 PM Well, the evil Ebon Phoenix variant, that is. I've had an idea for a villain, a Half-Red Dragon Githyanki, whose obviously momentous birth was a portent for a reincarnation of one of these powerful mages.

The fluff for Phoenix Mages is that they guard something/try to free it, so maybe somewhere among the planes is the 'first' Red Dragon, desperately awaiting the seals scattered over the planes to be broken.

My thoughts were to have this one Ebon Phoenix mage and 12 Jade phoenix mages, each on a different plane guarding these seals. The Ebon Phoenix mage, by a combination of more class levels and DM fiat ( :D ), begins the process of eliminating the mages, leaving only the PCs to stop him.

So, instead of a mage, would a psion, symbolising the differences between the 'good' and 'evil' mages further than alignment, work out well? I know the spell slots used to power its abilities would need to be replaced by an appropriate number of power points (1,3,5,7, etc), but other than that, would it work out well?
CrimsonDeath
03-18-08, 03:58 PM Rather than setting specific PP costs for amounts of damage added to attacks, you could do 1d6 damage/PP (to a max of ML). It's the standard rate of conversion from PP into damage, it's pretty close to 1d10/spell level, and it simplifies the wording of the ability a bit.
InkBlot
03-18-08, 07:29 PM You could do 1d10 per 2 power points.
JulesCARV
03-18-08, 07:31 PM Well, if your homebrew has arcane magic as a "good" method of doing supernatural stuff and psionics as somehow an "evil" method of doing supernatural stuff, I suppose that would work out fine. It's not obvious to someone not deeply familiar with whatever (homebrew?) setting you're using, however, why that would be the case. I mean, there's no reason that that can't be the case, and you could easily put an "any nongood" restriction on psions and an "any nonevil" restriction on sorcerers, or not formalize it with mechanics and just generally say psions are sinister and sorcerers aren't, but I guess I'm curious about why that is -- the history of the adverserial relationship between psionics and arcane magic, their practices, etc.
CrimsonDeath
03-18-08, 08:00 PM Well, if your homebrew has arcane magic as a "good" method of doing supernatural stuff and psionics as somehow an "evil" method of doing supernatural stuff, I suppose that would work out fine. It's not obvious to someone not deeply familiar with whatever (homebrew?) setting you're using, however, why that would be the case. I mean, there's no reason that that can't be the case, and you could easily put an "any nongood" restriction on psions and an "any nonevil" restriction on sorcerers, or not formalize it with mechanics and just generally say psions are sinister and sorcerers aren't, but I guess I'm curious about why that is -- the history of the adverserial relationship between psionics and arcane magic, their practices, etc.

I don't think there necessarily needs to be a dichotomy if one explains how good arcanists came to be affiliated with the Jade Phoenix, or how evil psionicists came to be affiliated with the Ebon Phoenix (or whatever). Consider the Red Wizards, for instance-- generally evil arcanists with a background reason to be evil. For another example, in an earlier Psionics + ToB thread, it was suggested that with a slight flavor tweak, the JPMs could be opposed to a psionic organization including the Obsidian Dragon Cultists, servants of (if I understand correctly) a deceased renegade gemstone dragon deity. It wasn't that all psionicists were evil, just the ones in that particular organization.

(However, I will state that Lawful Good Psions have very few options for decent PrCs. The best ones seem to be either Evil or Chaotic.)
Scion of Coldshard
03-18-08, 09:50 PM It'll take some shifting of abilities.. but it can be done ;)

On a different thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14533702&postcount=16) I had gone through some suggested changes for another poster, they might be helpful here.

Shifting around to different planes, different alignments, different energy types, and other such things is pretty workable within the jade phoenix ability structure if you are so inclined.

If the seals would grant a minor to major set of abilities they could work as an item set as well.. although in a way that might make it seem a bit too much like mega man ;) kill the guy, trap his soul in the seal, tap off some portion of his odd/unique jade phoenix abilities..lol..
JulesCARV
03-18-08, 11:03 PM Ah, I see. I misunderstood: I thought that when Ecalsneerg wrote that he wanted "instead of a mage... a psion, symbolising the differences between the 'good' and 'evil' mages further than alignment," I thought he was using "'good' and 'evil' mages" to refer to all arcanists and psionicists, and thought he was going to use the distinction between arcane magic and psionics to correspond with good and evil. Now I see that when he referred to "'good' and 'evil' mages," mages was just referring to jade pheonix mage/ebon pheonix mage, and he wanted them to be distinguished by more than just "one's good, the other's evil."
CrimsonDeath
03-18-08, 11:35 PM Ah, I see. I misunderstood: I thought that when Ecalsneerg wrote that he wanted "instead of a mage... a psion, symbolising the differences between the 'good' and 'evil' mages further than alignment," I thought he was using "'good' and 'evil' mages" to refer to all arcanists and psionicists, and thought he was going to use the distinction between arcane magic and psionics to correspond with good and evil. Now I see that when he referred to "'good' and 'evil' mages," mages was just referring to jade pheonix mage/ebon pheonix mage, and he wanted them to be distinguished by more than just "one's good, the other's evil."

And I admit I kinda skimmed that part...
Ecalsneerg
03-20-08, 11:20 AM It wasn't really to symbolise arcane = good, psionic = evil but more to show up obvious differences. Not to mention the fact the villain is a Githyanki.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ecalsneerg 03-18-08, 02:34 PM	Well, the evil Ebon Phoenix variant, that is. I've had an idea for a villain, a Half-Red Dragon Githyanki, whose obviously momentous birth was a portent for a reincarnation of one of these powerful mages. The fluff for Phoenix Mages is that they guard something/try to free it, so maybe somewhere among the planes is the 'first' Red Dragon, desperately awaiting the seals scattered over the planes to be broken. My thoughts were to have this one Ebon Phoenix mage and 12 Jade phoenix mages, each on a different plane guarding these seals. The Ebon Phoenix mage, by a combination of more class levels and DM fiat ( :D ), begins the process of eliminating the mages, leaving only the PCs to stop him. So, instead of a mage, would a psion, symbolising the differences between the 'good' and 'evil' mages further than alignment, work out well? I know the spell slots used to power its abilities would need to be replaced by an appropriate number of power points (1,3,5,7, etc), but other than that, would it work out well?
CrimsonDeath 03-18-08, 03:58 PM	Rather than setting specific PP costs for amounts of damage added to attacks, you could do 1d6 damage/PP (to a max of ML). It's the standard rate of conversion from PP into damage, it's pretty close to 1d10/spell level, and it simplifies the wording of the ability a bit.
InkBlot 03-18-08, 07:29 PM	You could do 1d10 per 2 power points.
JulesCARV 03-18-08, 07:31 PM	Well, if your homebrew has arcane magic as a "good" method of doing supernatural stuff and psionics as somehow an "evil" method of doing supernatural stuff, I suppose that would work out fine. It's not obvious to someone not deeply familiar with whatever (homebrew?) setting you're using, however, why that would be the case. I mean, there's no reason that that can't be the case, and you could easily put an "any nongood" restriction on psions and an "any nonevil" restriction on sorcerers, or not formalize it with mechanics and just generally say psions are sinister and sorcerers aren't, but I guess I'm curious about why that is -- the history of the adverserial relationship between psionics and arcane magic, their practices, etc.
CrimsonDeath 03-18-08, 08:00 PM	Well, if your homebrew has arcane magic as a "good" method of doing supernatural stuff and psionics as somehow an "evil" method of doing supernatural stuff, I suppose that would work out fine. It's not obvious to someone not deeply familiar with whatever (homebrew?) setting you're using, however, why that would be the case. I mean, there's no reason that that can't be the case, and you could easily put an "any nongood" restriction on psions and an "any nonevil" restriction on sorcerers, or not formalize it with mechanics and just generally say psions are sinister and sorcerers aren't, but I guess I'm curious about why that is -- the history of the adverserial relationship between psionics and arcane magic, their practices, etc. I don't think there necessarily needs to be a dichotomy if one explains how good arcanists came to be affiliated with the Jade Phoenix, or how evil psionicists came to be affiliated with the Ebon Phoenix (or whatever). Consider the Red Wizards, for instance-- generally evil arcanists with a background reason to be evil. For another example, in an earlier Psionics + ToB thread, it was suggested that with a slight flavor tweak, the JPMs could be opposed to a psionic organization including the Obsidian Dragon Cultists, servants of (if I understand correctly) a deceased renegade gemstone dragon deity. It wasn't that all psionicists were evil, just the ones in that particular organization. (However, I will state that Lawful Good Psions have very few options for decent PrCs. The best ones seem to be either Evil or Chaotic.)
Scion of Coldshard 03-18-08, 09:50 PM	It'll take some shifting of abilities.. but it can be done ;) On a different thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14533702&postcount=16) I had gone through some suggested changes for another poster, they might be helpful here. Shifting around to different planes, different alignments, different energy types, and other such things is pretty workable within the jade phoenix ability structure if you are so inclined. If the seals would grant a minor to major set of abilities they could work as an item set as well.. although in a way that might make it seem a bit too much like mega man ;) kill the guy, trap his soul in the seal, tap off some portion of his odd/unique jade phoenix abilities..lol..
JulesCARV 03-18-08, 11:03 PM	Ah, I see. I misunderstood: I thought that when Ecalsneerg wrote that he wanted "instead of a mage... a psion, symbolising the differences between the 'good' and 'evil' mages further than alignment," I thought he was using "'good' and 'evil' mages" to refer to all arcanists and psionicists, and thought he was going to use the distinction between arcane magic and psionics to correspond with good and evil. Now I see that when he referred to "'good' and 'evil' mages," mages was just referring to jade pheonix mage/ebon pheonix mage, and he wanted them to be distinguished by more than just "one's good, the other's evil."
CrimsonDeath 03-18-08, 11:35 PM	Ah, I see. I misunderstood: I thought that when Ecalsneerg wrote that he wanted "instead of a mage... a psion, symbolising the differences between the 'good' and 'evil' mages further than alignment," I thought he was using "'good' and 'evil' mages" to refer to all arcanists and psionicists, and thought he was going to use the distinction between arcane magic and psionics to correspond with good and evil. Now I see that when he referred to "'good' and 'evil' mages," mages was just referring to jade pheonix mage/ebon pheonix mage, and he wanted them to be distinguished by more than just "one's good, the other's evil." And I admit I kinda skimmed that part...
Ecalsneerg 03-20-08, 11:20 AM	It wasn't really to symbolise arcane = good, psionic = evil but more to show up obvious differences. Not to mention the fact the villain is a Githyanki.