Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bullvinne 01-08-08, 08:14 PM	ok this is not meant to be a super optimized build but How would a Kalashtar Psion or Ardent 5/Quari Nightmare 5/ Psion Uncarnate 10 be? Known feats would be Psionic Body, Practiced Manifester, Psycristal Affinity,Boost Construct, Extend Power, and as many Expanded Knowleges I can get Any suggestion on the feats I have or should get? Also, Should I go Psion or Ardent for the first 5 levels? they get the same amount of PP but the Ardent has a fewer amount of Powers to select from but they get auras a better BaB, Armor selection, HP. but I dont know exactly how they learn thier powers known but someone told me they can learn them with Practiced Manifester because of how they learn them, that means I should be able to learn 9th level powers as an ardent going this route. Any advice?
Bullvinne 01-09-08, 12:44 AM	wow anyone?
jbsaff 01-09-08, 01:37 AM	Okay, my understanding is that an Ardent is limited by their manifester level when learning new powers. That is, when they get a new level, they can learn any power from their mantles that costs a number of power points equal to the number of Ardent levels they have. So by taking Practiced Manifester and thus increasing their manifester level to equal their HD, an Ardent can go into a PrC that doesn't have full manifesting progression and still learn 9th level powers. Hopefully I got that right and was understandable. Someone will probably correct me if need be. ;) As far as your build is concerned, I really am not qualified to comment. My group never got out of a homebrewed default setup (Kalashtar is Ebberon, right?). Based purely on manifester levels, the Ardent seems stronger for high-level power. But I'm pretty sure the utility of the Psion has to count for something there.
Sinfire Titan 01-09-08, 04:03 AM	Ardent does not learn new powers with Practiced Manifester. Ergo, Psion is better for this purpose. Hell, Psy Warrior is good too.
CrimsonDeath 01-09-08, 04:12 AM	Ardent does not learn new powers with Practiced Manifester. But a multiclass Ardent does learn higher-level powers faster with Practiced Manifester.
The_Mess 01-09-08, 12:01 PM	Just to make it clear, you have to keep on taking ardent levels after taking practiced manifester and multiclassing.
Bullvinne 01-09-08, 12:08 PM	Just to make it clear, you have to keep on taking ardent levels after taking practiced manifester and multiclassing. why is that? I was wanting to take only 5 ardent levels to get into my PrCs
CrimsonDeath 01-09-08, 01:31 PM	Just to make it clear, you have to keep on taking ardent levels after taking practiced manifester and multiclassing. Not if you're taking a prestiege class that advances Ardent manifesting.
The_Mess 01-09-08, 03:05 PM	To clarify my unclear clarification, you have to keep *expanding* the Ardent (either taking new levels or getting "+1 manifester level" from a prestige class) to get new powers that benefit from Practiced Manifester.
Sinfire Titan 01-09-08, 03:52 PM	To clarify my unclear clarification, you have to keep *expanding* the Ardent (either taking new levels or getting "+1 manifester level" from a prestige class) to get new powers that benefit from Practiced Manifester. A.K.A. You need more mantles to learn powers from.
CrimsonDeath 01-09-08, 04:09 PM	A.K.A. You need more mantles to learn powers from. No, you can just learn more powers from whatever mantles you already picked up.
Sinfire Titan 01-10-08, 01:57 AM	No, you can just learn more powers from whatever mantles you already picked up. But you will run out eventually. Besides, some Mantles skip a few levels for their powers.
CrimsonDeath 01-10-08, 03:09 AM	But you will run out eventually. Besides, some Mantles skip a few levels for their powers. In two levels of Ardent, you gain three mantles. Each mantle has at least seven powers, so there's no way you'll run out of powers to learn pre-Epic. Some mantles skip some power levels, but there's no rule that you must learn the highest-level power available based on your manifester level. Also, that particular problem can be mitigated by the combination of mantles chosen, especially if you're using Practiced Manifester with a partial progression prestiege class. (In that case, since there will be a few levels when your manifester level increases but you don't gain new powers or more PP, there will be a few power levels that you'll only get one power of that level if you always choose the highest-level power available to your manifester level.)
Bullvinne 01-10-08, 11:43 AM	hmm this still isnt helping me decide between the Psion or the Ardent for my base class. If I go Psion I would have 8 more powers known, but only have a max of 8th level power known but I would have better selection of powers and two bonus psionic feats. The ardent gives me a d6 instead of a d4 hp better armor use, and some special abilities depending on what mantles i pick, the ability to get 9th level powers but fewer powers and a worse selection to choose from. what do yall think is best? I plan on turning into basically a nightmarish ghost, hence the Quori Nightmare and Psion Uncarnate PrCs and I want to be a general jack of all trades manifester, so probably a few energy powers like missile for DPS, Knock for opening doors since we have no rogue the 3 Telekinetic powers cause I like them, and metamorphosis for going Coporial after level 10 of psion uncarnate and all the other usefullness it brings. With all the different powers I want I think its safe to say Psion may beat the Ardent for my cause, what do you think?
DracoPhoenix 01-10-08, 05:15 PM	ok this is not meant to be a super optimized build but How would a Kalashtar Psion or Ardent 5/Quari Nightmare 5/ Psion Uncarnate 10 be? Known feats would be Psionic Body, Practiced Manifester, Psycristal Affinity,Boost Construct, Extend Power, and as many Expanded Knowleges I can get Any suggestion on the feats I have or should get? Also, Should I go Psion or Ardent for the first 5 levels? they get the same amount of PP but the Ardent has a fewer amount of Powers to select from but they get auras a better BaB, Armor selection, HP. but I dont know exactly how they learn thier powers known but someone told me they can learn them with Practiced Manifester because of how they learn them, that means I should be able to learn 9th level powers as an ardent going this route. Any advice? The "as many Expanded Knowleges I can get" would support psion(telepath) as the base choice. Any stacking manifester levels would allow more easy access to Psychic chirgery, thus more powers. I'm not familiar with Quori Nightmare, so I can't comment on that. Consider Uncarnate from L6, so you get the capstone at L15 and is therefore usable L15-20. Now I have a personal bias towards the following combo : Energy missiles (@L5psi) ,Empower (<L6) and Psi-med(@L6). You can get away with a surprising small number of energy powers - I like Missiles as it's flexible and does damage even if they save. It requires no roll to hit and can hit several targets at once. After that, packing Energy barrage for area effect. Unless you have a pressing desire a different method of hitting them, you shouldn't need any more than these two. Psi body could probably be reformed out at L15 if you go uncarnate earlier. Otherwise, pack it and con 12-14 sooner rather than later if you're so inclined. It will also give you a free TK force. Btw d4 + Con 14 is better than D6 Con 0. If you're planning in being incorporeal and have little use for ranged attack rolls (e.g. energy missile etc), you could probably sacrifice Dex & Str in favour of Int, Wis and Con. Regarding metamorphosis. Get a skin of proteus & handy haversack (reform CWI and the crafting discount feat(s) for a cheaper one). Assume equipment the haversack, but not the skin. Then you can wear the skin as needed (see the bit about you remain wearing corporeal armour etc while uncarnate) and when you need to be incorporeal it can go back into the haversack. The fun thing on this is you can change you appearance to a small balding monk of indeterminate ethnic origin. Politely ask if they've ever heard of "Rule one", smiling in an unconcerned fashion, and watch them surrender. (auto:cookie: for ref :)) There's more than one way to open a door. Time hop has been suggested, as has the humble crowbar. Failing that, very few things (especially objects) have resistance to sonic. But then TK force or thrust could possible be used for a strength check to break the door down. If you like the TK powers (and who doesn't), you may want to EK(Control Body). Though I prefer dominate - just tell em what you want to do :) Also, dorjes. A large number of L1 powers are useful unaugmented, depending on the campaign. Know dir & location, the precog buffs, force shield, call to mind to name a few. 750g for 50 charges. Ok you might go through a few sticks of the combat buffs, but the utility ones will last you quite some time. Unless you refuse to stop and ask for directions. Pet rock (AKA psicrystal affinity) is quite useful. Though it may count towards your # of assumed items for uncarnate. Depending on what you want to use it for you're looking at: psicrystal containment (feat), solicit psicrystal (power), metamorphosis (power, for share power). With metamorphosis, if you're incorporeal. you could overlay it on yourself and use it as a physical body. Though the duration bit sucks. (Hence the skin above.) I actually had an idea one of My DMs would be happy with of making it a legacy item too. The idea was to use it's "legs" to wrap it round the wrist or similar and primarily a utility item - comprehend languages, detect secret doors, magic etc. (Unfortunately I wanted it for a Cleric. :() Oh, and energy nullification field - you're party members will thank you at the next red dragon :). The dragon of course, will simply (try to) eviscerate you. I'm focusing your character role around being incorporeal, so I would probably not worry too much about physical needs. Also remember you can only assume 10 items by L10. So you will need to think carefully about "always on" items. Haversack, +int headband, armour/robe what ever will probably be the minimum. See if you can get a special on all mundane clothing / equipment (belt pouches etc) counting as 1 item. Pack touchsight and you'll be a great scout - merge into the floor and move under the door.
Bullvinne 01-10-08, 05:54 PM	The "as many Expanded Knowleges I can get" would support psion(telepath) as the base choice. Any stacking manifester levels would allow more easy access to Psychic chirgery, thus more powers. I'm not familiar with Quori Nightmare, so I can't comment on that. Consider Uncarnate from L6, so you get the capstone at L15 and is therefore usable L15-20. Now I have a personal bias towards the following combo : Energy missiles (@L5psi) ,Empower (<L6) and Psi-med(@L6). You can get away with a surprising small number of energy powers - I like Missiles as it's flexible and does damage even if they save. It requires no roll to hit and can hit several targets at once. After that, packing Energy barrage for area effect. Unless you have a pressing desire a different method of hitting them, you shouldn't need any more than these two. Psi body could probably be reformed out at L15 if you go uncarnate earlier. Otherwise, pack it and con 12-14 sooner rather than later if you're so inclined. It will also give you a free TK force. Btw d4 + Con 14 is better than D6 Con 0. If you're planning in being incorporeal and have little use for ranged attack rolls (e.g. energy missile etc), you could probably sacrifice Dex & Str in favour of Int, Wis and Con. Regarding metamorphosis. Get a skin of proteus & handy haversack (reform CWI and the crafting discount feat(s) for a cheaper one). Assume equipment the haversack, but not the skin. Then you can wear the skin as needed (see the bit about you remain wearing corporeal armour etc while uncarnate) and when you need to be incorporeal it can go back into the haversack. The fun thing on this is you can change you appearance to a small balding monk of indeterminate ethnic origin. Politely ask if they've ever heard of "Rule one", smiling in an unconcerned fashion, and watch them surrender. (auto:cookie: for ref :)) There's more than one way to open a door. Time hop has been suggested, as has the humble crowbar. Failing that, very few things (especially objects) have resistance to sonic. But then TK force or thrust could possible be used for a strength check to break the door down. If you like the TK powers (and who doesn't), you may want to EK(Control Body). Though I prefer dominate - just tell em what you want to do :) Also, dorjes. A large number of L1 powers are useful unaugmented, depending on the campaign. Know dir & location, the precog buffs, force shield, call to mind to name a few. 750g for 50 charges. Ok you might go through a few sticks of the combat buffs, but the utility ones will last you quite some time. Unless you refuse to stop and ask for directions. Pet rock (AKA psicrystal affinity) is quite useful. Though it may count towards your # of assumed items for uncarnate. Depending on what you want to use it for you're looking at: psicrystal containment (feat), solicit psicrystal (power), metamorphosis (power, for share power). With metamorphosis, if you're incorporeal. you could overlay it on yourself and use it as a physical body. Though the duration bit sucks. (Hence the skin above.) I actually had an idea one of My DMs would be happy with of making it a legacy item too. The idea was to use it's "legs" to wrap it round the wrist or similar and primarily a utility item - comprehend languages, detect secret doors, magic etc. (Unfortunately I wanted it for a Cleric. :() Oh, and energy nullification field - you're party members will thank you at the next red dragon :). The dragon of course, will simply (try to) eviscerate you. I'm focusing your character role around being incorporeal, so I would probably not worry too much about physical needs. Also remember you can only assume 10 items by L10. So you will need to think carefully about "always on" items. Haversack, +int headband, armour/robe what ever will probably be the minimum. See if you can get a special on all mundane clothing / equipment (belt pouches etc) counting as 1 item. Pack touchsight and you'll be a great scout - merge into the floor and move under the door. wow thats some pretty niffty information, thanks a ton
DracoPhoenix 01-11-08, 02:28 AM	wow thats some pretty niffty information, thanks a ton Glad I could help, but I just noticed I missed something with my empower combo - if you can, pack metapower(empowered(energy missiles)). Then you get +50% for free :)
Lycanthromancer 01-11-08, 05:13 PM	Even when you're incorporeal, your psicrystal can still be corporeal. Give THAT your Skin of Proteus, or get metamorphosis, and go to town.