Post/Author/DateTime	Post
anarchy1973 05-18-07, 08:21 AM	Background: I have played 3.5 Psionics utilising XPH twice previously. 1st played a Psychic Warrior through to L15, then a Ranger/Egoist/Illithid Slayer till his unfortunate demise pre L13. Both these characters were melee oriented. After some time getting TOB out of my system, I want to play a Kineticist. Issues: I have never played a blaster before, and while I realize that metamagic Wizard/Incantrix etc make better blasters, I want to create a metapsionic blaster, as I rate Psionics highly, having had only positive experiences. My DM is sweet on the whole deal, we use transparency in all our dealings. Books Available: XPH, all Complete, All Races, Frostburn, Stormwrack, Sandstorm, Planar Handbook, Unearthed Arcana, "Heroes of " series, All FR, All Eberron, Core & PHB 2, BOVD, BOED, Incarnum, Hyperconscious, basically any 3.5 Book, or 3.0 book that has not been replaced by a newer version. Research: I have read both Myth XPH is overpowered threads, Psion build guide (Very Useful), Treatsie on metapsionic feats and the thread on Powers in some detail. Points Of Note: DM uses transparency rules, Psionic & Magic Items appear with the same frequency, DM doesn't believe Psionics is overpowered, Homebrew World (Can adapt Eberron & FR to his world), will be played into Epic, Use of Psychic Reformation is fine, we only use new stuff from Complete Psionic as DM believes (& IMO rightly so) that Psionics cops enough underpowering compared to magic as is, so none of the nerfs in CP relating to Empathic Transfer Hostile, Astral Construct etc.. are used. My Idea: "Dante" Male Human Kineticist 20, rolls: 18, 16, 16, 13, 12, 11. Starting Lvl = 3 (Will progress to Epic [If I live that long]) 1 - Psicrystal Affinity "Single Minded" (Reform to "Hero" later) 1 - Overchannel 1 - Talented 3 - Psicrystal Containment 5 - Psionic Meditation 6 - Empower Power 9 - Expanded Knowledge "Schism" 10 - Maximize Power 12 - Twin Power 15 - Power Penetration 15 - Greater Power Penetration 18 - Quicken Power 20 - Split Psionic Ray The Problems: Any advice on feats would be greatly appreciated, my main problem is on powers to chose. My basic list looks like: 1st - Energy Ray - Crystal Shard - Vigor - Synchronicity - Control Object 2nd - Concussion Blast - Ego Whip - Energy Missile - Levitate 3rd - Time Hop - Dispel Psionics - Solicit Psicrystal - Body Adjustment 4th - Psychic Reformation - Freedom Of Movement Psionic - Dimension Door Psionic - Energy Ball 5th - Anticipatory Strike - Energy Current - True Seeing Psionic - Power Resistance 6th - Contingency Psionic - Disintegrate Psionic - Dispelling Buffer 7th - Reddopsi - Decerebrate - Ultra Blast 8th - Bend Reality - Mind Blank Psionic - Teleport Greater Psionic 9th - Reality Revsion - Tornado Blast - Affinity Field - Etherealness Psionic - Urge Extermination - Microcosm * Missed powers I liked but couldn't fit: L2 - Bestow Power, Share Pain, L3 - Energy Cone, L4 - Fly Psionic, Control Body, L5 - Incarnate, L6 - Null Psionics Field, Temporal Acceleration, L8 - True Metabolism. Any help, tips on Feats/Powers would be greatly appreciated, any stories from people who have played a Kineticist from low levels, through to high levels and how they went would also be great. Cheers !
Arkyles_the_Conqueror 05-18-07, 09:11 AM	I actually think that "Dante" is a pretty cool character. I like the power selection, but...looking at your feat list, i can't say that i see wild talent. Also, this may just be me, but i would trade an 8th level power for Planar embrace. I just like the idea of flying around the battlefeild throwing anything and everything at anything in sight :D . As a half-fiend! :evillaugh Arkyles
Fafnir 05-18-07, 09:17 AM	I actually think that "Dante" is a pretty cool character. I like the power selection, but...looking at your feat list, i can't say that i see wild talent. Also, this may just be me, but i would trade an 8th level power for Planar embrace. I just like the idea of flying around the battlefeild throwing anything and everything at anything in sight :D . As a half-fiend! :evillaugh Arkyles Uh, maybe I'm missing something... Why would he need Wild Talent?
Ogg 05-18-07, 09:25 AM	After playing a psion for years I can definitely suggest, you might want to swap out Energy Adaptation, Specified for one of your 2nd level powers if possible. Being able to ignore up to 30 points of any kind of needed energy as an immedite action & have it active for 1 min/level for 7 psionic points has saved my skin many times. Also Psychic Reformation is nice in theory & don't get me wrong it's a great power, but just how often are you going to do your skills & powers? It's a power I could see seaking out an NPC who has but not that used by a PC. Also I found it hard not to take Fiery Discorporation as a Kineticist. Of course one of the members in our party always carries a flaming sword ;)
Arkyles_the_Conqueror 05-18-07, 09:33 AM	wait, wait, wait...Oops! Don't worry, i'm not thinking too well tonight. 'Wild talent', jeez...what was i thinking??? lol
Azarias 05-18-07, 11:32 AM	Dante looks fun. I'm playing an 8th-going on-9th level Kineticist atm, so my advice is based on that: Feats: I'm increasingly tempted by Enlarge Power. Yep, that one no one EVER takes :) The perks here are that, one, Enlarge fell off the scale in the tranferral from Metamagic to Metapsionic; it costs no extra PP. And two, many many Close-range powers are balanced by being close range. Enlarge at least doubles that range (+5' at every other level). Consider the following examples: Crystal Shard at 50' (move and attack range) or 100' (beyond regular charge range); Energy Current vs two within 50' (dangerous, easy to escape), or two within 100'...(now you're cooking with gas) Other feats: Empower, Maximise and so forth don't get useful for a long time. There are so good threads way back that do all the maths. The complexity is in the fact that you're lowering your DCs. Basically Empower starts to get useful at 9th-10th, but it's only marginal until about 12th if you factor in the DC penalty. Maximise is less useful as ever. 1st level powers: Entangling Ectoplasm never stops being lovely. I would drop something for this without hestitation. 2nd level: Specified Energy is good, as mentioned, though it's only ever Res 10 (edit: nope, my mistake; see below). Still a good take. Levitation is awesome at 10 minutes/level. 3rd level: Psionic Blast grows old fast, but it's a fine solution to grappling for a long time (expend one of your focusses to take 15 on your Concentration check to manifest: most grapplers have poor Will: stunned creatures drop everything). If you can reform it out later it's worth it. 4th level: TK Maneuver. Absolute peach of a power. Especially when energy isn't an option. You have Solicit Psicrystal, so this is made for you. 5th level: Energy Current is gods gift to Kineticists. Again, with Solicit Psicrystal Dante's made for this. Add in 100'+ range, and you're laughing like a villain :) Can't comment beyond that, since I lack the experience to do so.
Wrong 05-18-07, 12:24 PM	2nd level: Specified Energy is good, as mentioned, though it's only ever Res 10. Still a good take. Levitation is awesome at 10 minutes/level.GRRRR ! Energy Adaptation, Specified Psychometabolism [see text] Level: Psion/wilder 2, psychic warrior 2 Power Points: 3 As energy adaptation, except you must choose one type of energy to which you gain resistance when this power is manifested. This power’s subtype is the same as the type of damage it protects against. Augment: If you spend 4 additional power points, you can manifest this power as an immediate action. Energy Adaptation Psychometabolism [see text] Level: Psion/wilder 4, psychic warrior 4 Display: Visual; see text Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 10 min./level Power Points: 7 Your body assimilates some of the effect of an energy attack and converts it to harmless light. You gain resistance 10 against any attack that deals acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage. When you absorb damage, you can choose to radiate visible light that illuminates a 60-foot radius for a number of rounds equal to the points of damage you successfully resisted, or merely dissipate the energy without giving off a visual display. The energy resistance provided by this power increases to 20 points at 9th manifester level and to a maximum of 30 points at 13th level. The power protects your equipment as well. The resistance provided by this power does not stack with other forms of energy resistance. This power’s subtype is the same as the type of damage it protects against. Augment: If you spend 4 additional power points, you can manifest this power as an immediate action.
Azarias 05-18-07, 12:50 PM	good lord, I'm slipping. Glad someone pointed this out to me just before I reach 9th... How lovely. With the immediate action that gives the 2nd level power great utilty. I think the rest of my post is correct, touch wood.
Lycanthromancer 05-18-07, 12:54 PM	Immediate action? You're still talking about Energy Adaptation (and the Specified version thereof)...right?
Azarias 05-18-07, 12:58 PM	Yep: +4pp augment for the Immediate. I've used it with the augment six times since it became available at 7th. Very useful even at DR10. And thanks to...Wrong...for pointing out the DR progression.
Lycanthromancer 05-18-07, 01:10 PM	Works for me.
JulesCARV 05-18-07, 01:14 PM	Of course, with psychic reformation, you can always grab it when you level up, use it for whatever you needed it for, then reform it away. You have to wait to level up to use it, granted, but it doesn't take up a permanent power slot. Of course, having it on hand all the time can be convenient too.
Ogg 05-18-07, 05:29 PM	Yeah it's seriously one I use almost every week. Plus glowing afterwards is just fun. I got so used to falling back on it I freaked out when we were fighting a black dragon (doesn't work against acid) Reason I use the 2nd level version is you USUALLY are only worried about one energy type at a time so saves the power points. And I'm a big defender of Inertial Armor. IMHO scalable Mage Armor is just nice & it lasts an hour a level. And YES OVERCHANNEL & TALENTED are the WIN. Those extra 1-3 levels on powers are nice if not for duration only and talented saves you the hit points on level 1st thru 3rd powers. Touchsight (3rd) has been a life saver recently, sadly it's only a min a level but aganst greater invisibility it's very nice. Plus, it's scalable, having 90' see invis is dandy. I've never bought Body Adjustment. I've never had to worry about heals though in my group & I carry potions for back up. I figure if I'm ever that bad off I'm probably unconscious anyways. And a FEAT I suggest to everyone is Psionic Body if you can afford it & if you're buying mainly Psionic Feats. It seems meager but +2 hit points per Psionic Feat adds up for the low hit pointers Psions are.
CrimsonDeath 05-18-07, 05:40 PM	My psion has been using Psychic Reformation rather frequently. I learned it when it became available (along with Imprint Stone) and made several stones of it, then reformed it away. Later, at level up, I'd learn Incarnate along with a power I wanted permanently, made it permanent, and then used one of the stones to replace those with the powers I actually wanted... Using it to get rid of lower-level powers to move up the power chain (for example, use Specified Energy Adaptation until you can get the normal version and use that until you can get Energy Conversion) is less useful, now that the PHB2 introduced retraining.
Millenia 05-18-07, 05:56 PM	If you have a few dollars to spare, you should try getting Untapped Potential. It has a class, the Energist, solely devoted to kicking ass with energy powers. You lose one manifester level, but I think it's worth it. :B
anarchy1973 05-19-07, 03:33 AM	ThanKs for all the advice. Yeah, energy adaption was of great value when I played my Egoist/Slayer (R.I.P), I just struggle to fit in what I want, I guess I need to look at Dorjes of those powers I miss. I like the idea of Incarnate to make permanent those low level powers then psychic reformat them. Psionic Body will be a miss for me, I have faith in my "Meat Shields", and don't want to miss out on a chance to take a metapsionic feat. Enlarge Power & Energy Current sound good, just need to work out what to remove, I guess I can always Reformat at higher levels when Empower comes more ibto it's own. Body Adjustment is more of a role playing choice, as Dante will be a sort of arrogant sneering person, who lets others do his dirty work and steps in only when needed to blast all those who the pathetic fighter types can't handle. I see him as an aloof person who believes he is so intelligent and has an overopinionated sense of his own power. He is loathe to accept help from Clerics & Magic Users unless he believes it will allow him to continue to be the best member of the party. ;) All B.S. aside, how have you guys found the Kineticist to be when playing alongside Wizards ? I don't want any arguments about who is overpowered, just how a Psion can be played intelligently as a blaster. All help to date is greatly appreciated.
TheKeyofE 05-19-07, 05:27 AM	I'm playing a 4th level kineticist in a campaign right now. We've only gone three sessions, so I haven't really had a chance to "see what he can do," so to speak, but he seems really effective even if blasting isn't the most efficient. But my feat list is seriously almost exactly the same as your proposed build, and my power list has only a few minor differences (like Mind Thrust instead of Energy Ray for variety). He's also very chaotic, so I was going to dip one level in Anarchic Initiate from CPsi. The Chaotic Surge ability, although designed for Wilders, can be used with Overchannel, and gives an average boost of +25% damage to any Overchanneled damage power. EDIT: Oh, and Psionic Body is beautiful. I had it on a Psiwar a while back. If you have enough psionic feats, it's more efficient than Improved Toughness from CW. Although the Psicrystal/Share Pain/Vigor combo might make it obsolete.
anarchy1973 05-20-07, 06:46 AM	Thanks for the heads up, I'm pretty much going to play him as originally posted with a few minor changes. My last question is on Temporal Acceleration & the ability to buff before engaging. At the moment It is not on my list, should I add it & if so at the expense of which power ? Edit: Good pick up on the Chaotic Surge, I hadn't thought of that, might be worth looking into.
Magon 05-20-07, 04:26 PM	how about mind thust? 1pp for 1d10 damege. and when immunety begins to pop up, you reform it away
anarchy1973 05-21-07, 01:21 AM	My only issue with Mind Thrust is that it is "Will NEGATES" and is affected by Power Resistance, as opposed to Crystal Shard with NO SAVE allowed & no Power Resistance ,& Energy Ray again NO SAVE but affected by PR, & energy can be changed to suit opponent, obvious downside is ,making the ranged touch attack v's none for Mind Thrust
Magon 05-21-07, 02:30 AM	yeah. but when your facing big fighters in big plate mail and an IQ slightly better than that of a stone, does will really matter?
anarchy1973 05-21-07, 03:34 AM	Touche, I guess it depends on how your'e DM runs his world & how useful the powers will be at later levels. End of the day they will all be useless if you run into a Globe of Invulnerability Lesser as it stops all 1st -3rd Spells. Thanks for the input :-)
Magon 05-21-07, 04:23 AM	no problem.
Ogg 05-21-07, 10:24 AM	All B.S. aside, how have you guys found the Kineticist to be when playing alongside Wizards ? I don't want any arguments about who is overpowered, just how a Psion can be played intelligently as a blaster. All help to date is greatly appreciated. I'm playing a Cerebremancer which lets me feel very well the balance between the 2. Originally I was going to use my Psion levels for blasting & wiz levels for utilitarian. I'm finding if I just blast using psionics I'm way out of power points before the sorceress is the party is done with spells. I've actually filled in some of my wiz spells with blasting spells to help me stay afloat. I really do think the 2 balance out. The people who don't are looking at a one on one one time battle. In a campaign setting you'll really feel the balance when you go into the 2nd & 3rd battles of the day. A wiz or sorcerer will still usually have a ready supply of spells while a psion who blasts too much early will find himself grasping for psi points.
GraphiteGolem 05-21-07, 11:46 AM	I'm finding if I just blast using psionics I'm way out of power points before the sorceress is the party is done with spells. ... A wiz or sorcerer will still usually have a ready supply of spells while a psion who blasts too much early will find himself grasping for psi points. The wiz/sor may have more slots, but will they actually have spells for blasting? I played a kineticist with levels in Metamind (for more fun math) for a few years, and just Energy Missile'd (pre Comp. Psi) everything to bits. We had more tanks than average group though, that probably helped.
Kapitanturtle 05-21-07, 08:44 PM	I hate to be a stick in the mud, but how did you nab teleport at 5th when it's Nomad only?
anarchy1973 05-22-07, 03:57 AM	Good pick up on Teleport, must have gotten excited, I'll change it to Energy Current. Cerebremancer doesn't do it for me, I like the unique feel of a purely Psionic character. Same as for roleplaying, he is a an arrogant intellect, who sees Magic as a weak crutch for people who can't master the internal powers of the mind. Thanks for the replies.
neoanderthal 05-22-07, 12:22 PM	Uh, maybe I'm missing something... Why would he need Wild Talent? Without the Wild Talent feat, a non-psionic race can't belong to a psionic class. That's why the soulknife gets Wild Talent as a bonus feat - to allow any race to play the soulknife.
Ornedan 05-22-07, 02:29 PM	Without the Wild Talent feat, a non-psionic race can't belong to a psionic class. That's why the soulknife gets Wild Talent as a bonus feat - to allow any race to play the soulknife.A rules quote to support that, please. I won't hold my breath, seeing as you will never find one. Soulknives have the Wild Talent in order to actually make the class' members fullfill the technical requirements of being psionic creatures (PP pool or psi-like abilities) like every other psionic class does. Psionic focus, obtaining which requires a PP pool, also happens to be a requirement to actually use the Speed of Thought bonus feat they get.
Lycanthromancer 05-22-07, 02:42 PM	You don't need that feat to take a psionic class. It just qualifies you to take psionic feats and psionic focus (as well as giving you a few extra power points for manifesting powers, if you can do so). That's all.
JulesCARV 05-22-07, 05:15 PM	Without the Wild Talent feat, a non-psionic race can't belong to a psionic class. That's why the soulknife gets Wild Talent as a bonus feat - to allow any race to play the soulknife. The point of wild talent is to 1) allow someone with neither a psionic class nor a psionic race to take psionic feats or get into psionic prestige classes, such as an elf ranger who takes wild talent, psionic shot, and fell shot, or 2) allow someone, psionic or not, to become a Fist of Zuoken.
Fromost the Grimm 05-22-07, 05:58 PM	If you're really wanting to playing around with Extreme Cheese, may I recommend an Overchanneled Metapower Empowered Energy Missile around 3rd-4th level. It's a bit of a feat-investment, but I took the gamble when my Kineticist hit 4th, and by-golly-by-gee-by-gingo it paid off. The Wizard is still all excited with his 2d4+2 Magic Missile damage . . . and the Cleric is puff-chest-proud at his Bull's Strength on the tank . . . and you walk in, and zot for [5d6+5 x 1.5 = ] 33.75 damage on average, if using the fire/cold energy type, to up to 5 targets. At 5th level, the Wizard will exult in his pure, unadulterated power as he Fireballs the group of ogres for 17.5 average damage each. What, a few left standing? Then you step up and nuke-them-from-orbit for 40.5 average damage. There's a *lot* of cheese here. Yes, you won't be able to use the power unless you have your focus to expend due to it being Metapowered. And yes, it's gonna use up a lot of pp's. But flicking through any of the MM's, there's very few CR3-CR5 creatures out there that can take that kind of firepower. You are putting all of your eggs into the one basket, but oh what a bountiful basket it is. All of the disadvantages are essentially negated by the fact that when you open up this can o' whoop-ass, there usually ain't no battle left for those disadvantages to be an issue. If you're wanting to play a Blaster, to see how how Blasty a Blaster can be, this is as Blasty as it gets for low-level action. Yes, it's a lot of specialisation, but it hits so far above the expected power level the negatives don't really come in to it. If they do, Reform it away a few levels later.
neoanderthal 05-23-07, 12:17 AM	Ouch - I was poking through the rulebook to see where I gained the idea that one had to have a power point reserve to belong to a psionic class, but as someone else mentioned, it's not stated anywhere. In fact, while it's not explicitly spelled out that a nonpsionic race may take a psionic class in any of the class descriptions, the power descriptor bears this out - "You detect psionic auras. A psionic aura is given off by any active or permanent power, or during the use of any psionic feat. Characters who have levels in a psionic class, creatures with the psionic subtype, and creatures with the Wild Talent feat possess psionic auras." I know at least one of my players is going to be happy about this one - extra feat for him! My bad, my apologies, and I'm glad I've learned the right of it.