Post/Author/DateTime	Post
red_scare87 07-01-07, 02:08 AM	Just let me know what you think of it. The wording needs a lot of help, and so does the name, so any advice and/or changes would be greatly appreciated. Also, it's not quite done, it needs a flavor boost, and I plan to work out the rest of the standard PrC information at some point. I'm just trying to get some feedback for right now. Thanks in advance! Knight of the Golden Path “You're going to miss me, maybe you should try something else” A Knight of the Golden Path is a Seer who focuses on combat. He can see a crucial few moments into the future in order to better gauge his movement, defense, and attacks. He knows what his opponent is going to do before he even gets a chance to do it. In this way, he is an excellent combatant. However, he loses some of the raw psionic power that a straight Seer obtains. His PP pool is lower, and he will never be able to gain access to 9th level powers. Becoming a Knight of the Golden Path There is only one true path to becoming a Knight of the Golden Path. To become a Knight of the Golden Path, one must be a Seer who emphasizes on combat. The easiest way is to take all levels of Seer, although other paths and options are available. The high base attack bonus requirement may warrant multi-classing to be able to enter this Prestige Class sooner. Entry Requirements Base Attack Bonus: +5 Skills: Concentration 6 ranks, Listen 8 ranks, Spot 8 ranks Feats: Speed of Thought, Psionic Dodge. Powers: Must be able to manifest the Precognition power. HD: d8 Class skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (psionics), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex). Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int Modifier Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Manifesting 1st +1 +0 +2 +2 Focused +1, Sidestep Charge 2nd +2 +0 +3 +3 Uncanny Dodge, Pre-emptive Movement +1 Level of existing class 3rd +3 +1 +3 +3 Focused +2 4th +4 +1 +4 +4 Perfect Defense +1 Level of existing class 5th +5 +1 +4 +4 Focused +3 6th +6 +2 +5 +5 Anticipate Opening +1 Level of existing class 7th +7 +2 +5 +5 Focused +4 8th +8 +2 +6 +6 Improved Uncanny Dodge +1 Level of existing class 9th +9 +3 +6 +6 Focused +5 10th +10 +3 +7 +7 Prescient Opportunity +1 level of existing class Focused: Because a Knight of the Golden Path can see a few moments into the future, he is able to react faster than normal in certain situations. This means that whenever a Knight of the Golden Path is psionically focused, he gains a +1 bonus on Initiative and Reflex Saves. This bonus increases by 1 at every odd level, to a maximum of +5 at 9th level. Sidestep Charge: At 1st level, the Knight of the Golden Path gains the Sidestep Charge feat as a bonus feat. Uncanny Dodge: Because he is able to see crucial seconds into the future, at 2nd level, a Knight of the Golden Path retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a Knight of the Golden Path already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead. Preemptive Movement: The Knight of the Golden Path is able to see where an opponent is going to move before he even decides to move there. Because of this, at 2nd level the Knight of the Golden Path is able to move to a tactical position at the same time as his opponent moves. Whenever the target of the Knight of the Golden Path’s dodge feat decides to move during combat, he may, as an immediate action, take a move action in any direction equal to his base land speed. The Knight of the Golden Path is actually moving a few moments before his opponent. Because of this, he can choose to move into the square that his opponent was planning on moving to. If he does this, his opponent ends up in a square adjacent to Knight of the Golden Path. If there are no available squares adjacent to him, his opponent moves to the closest unoccupied square. Perfect Defense: Because he can anticipate his opponent’s attacks, he is better able to defend against them. At 4th level, the Knight of the Golden Path gains a dodge bonus to his armor class equal to the number of levels in this class against the target of his dodge feat. The downside of this ability is that if the target of his dodge is able to hit him despite his increased AC, he immediately loses his psionic focus. This loss of focus cannot benefit the Knight of the Golden Path in any way. Anticipate Opening: The Knight of the Golden Path’s ability to see moments into the future also gives him an advantage when attacking an opponent. Instead of several attacks, he instead is able to make a single devastating attack. While psionically focused, the Knight of the Golden Path may use a full attack action to make a single attack against the target of his dodge feat and gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +2 bonus to damage rolls/level in this class. Also, if the Knight of the Golden Path scores a critical hit, the critical multiplier goes up by one step. Improved Uncanny Dodge: At 8th level and higher, a Knight of the Golden Path can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the Knight of the Golden Path by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has Knight of the Golden Path levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character. Prescient Opportunity: The Knight of the Golden Path becomes so aware of his surroundings that he can react much more swiftly to his opponent’s tactical errors. He sees these opportunities before they happen, and can react in full. At 10th level, while psionically focused, at any time the Knight of the Golden Path is allowed an attack of opportunity against any opponent for any reason, he may take a full attack action instead of a single attack. He can choose to use his Anticipate Opening ability on this attack.
Azzy 07-01-07, 02:59 PM	Definitely interesting--I like the concept. I'm in no condition to critique the mechanics of the special abilities at the moment, but I hope to get a more indepth look latter. Determining the class's HD, Skill Points, Class Skills, Armor and Weapon Proficiencies should be on the top of your priorities. One thing though, As a prerequisite, you should have Weapon Focus in a martia weapon. Since both Speed of Thought and Psionic Dodge can be gained with a psion's bonus feats, a blatantly martial prerequisite will show a deeper level of dedication to the Knight's martial path.
Vasily 07-01-07, 09:38 PM	Looks like a really neat prestige class! Quick question: Are there equivalents for preemptive movement or Prescient Opportunity in other classess or prestige classes?
red_scare87 07-02-07, 01:06 AM	Definitely interesting--I like the concept. I'm in no condition to critique the mechanics of the special abilities at the moment, but I hope to get a more indepth look latter. Determining the class's HD, Skill Points, Class Skills, Armor and Weapon Proficiencies should be on the top of your priorities. Got the HD up, I decided on a d8. I'm still deciding which skills fit the best. Looks like a really neat prestige class! Quick question: Are there equivalents for preemptive movement or Prescient Opportunity in other classess or prestige classes? Thanks! And to answer your question: I don't think they're in any other classes or prestige classes. I'm kind of borrowing the idea for Preemptive Movement from the maneuver "Press the Advantage" in ToB, but not entirely.
Phoenix00 07-02-07, 01:36 AM	What does this class do to other forms of "dodge" besides psionic dodge such as dodge, midnight dodge, desert wind dodge, and expeditious dodge
red_scare87 07-02-07, 01:50 AM	What does this class do to other forms of "dodge" besides psionic dodge such as dodge, midnight dodge, desert wind dodge, and expeditious dodge As far as I know they all apply to the same target. Dodge and Psionic Dodge certainly do. I can clarify it in the text if it really is a big problem. The idea is that the bonuses only apply to one opponent.
Phoenix00 07-02-07, 03:03 AM	Midnight dodge is one target Desert Wind Dodge and Expeditious Dodge do not require you to desinate an opponent, there dodge bonus are related to the fact you move 10/40 feet and thus better avoid combat. Dodge bonus is not the same as the dodge feat, dodge feat grants a dodge bonus but other things such as these two above feats can also give a dodge bonus. Thus you have two interpretations all the people are your dodge targets or none of them are and you just get a dodge bonus against them.
red_scare87 07-02-07, 03:34 AM	Desert Wind Dodge and Expeditious Dodge do not require you to desinate an opponent, there dodge bonus are related to the fact you move 10/40 feet and thus better avoid combat. Dodge bonus is not the same as the dodge feat, dodge feat grants a dodge bonus but other things such as these two above feats can also give a dodge bonus. I'm aware that the dodge feat and dodge bonuses are different. The intent is that it be the target of the dodge feat. I'll try and make it more clear.
red_scare87 07-02-07, 04:23 PM	Skills are up, I'm gonna try and finish off the rest of the Prestige Class later today maybe. If not today, then probably tomorrow.
Bacris 07-02-07, 04:28 PM	I strongly, strongly advise against a +1 ML increase at 1st level... Otherwise, that's a really nice 1-level dip. I'd probably also recommend 5/10 progression instead of 4/10.
red_scare87 07-02-07, 05:09 PM	I was going to do 5/10, but I thought that might be a little too powerful. I wasn't sure though, and finally decided on 4/10, but 5/10 doesn't seem like too much really. I mean the Slayer PrC has 9/10.
Azzy 07-02-07, 06:52 PM	If not today, then probably tomorrow. Take your time. I can't say anything--I'm slacking off from a couple projects, myself. :)
GuardianLurker 07-02-07, 07:50 PM	Entry Requirements Base Attack Bonus: +5 Skills: Concentration 6 ranks, Listen 8 ranks, Spot 8 ranks Feats: Speed of Thought, Psionic Dodge. Powers: Must be able to manifest the Second Chance and either the Precognition, Offensive, Precognition, Defensive, or Prescience, Offensive powers. Hmm. Aside from the skill reqs, this is more solidly aimed at a Psychic Warrior than a Psion/Seer. Other good paths are Lurk and the Psychic Rogue. Where's Second Chance from? Preemptive Movement: The Knight of the Golden Path is able to see where an opponent is going to move before he even decides to move there. Because of this, at 2nd level the Knight of the Golden Path is able to move to a tactical position at the same time as his opponent moves. Whenever the target of the Knight of the Golden Path’s dodge feat decides to move during combat, he may, as an immediate action, take a move action in any direction equal to his base land speed. The Knight of the Golden Path is actually moving a few moments before his opponent. Because of this, he can choose to move into the square that his opponent was planning on moving to. If he does this, his opponent ends up in a square adjacent to Knight of the Golden Path. If there are no available squares adjacent to him, his opponent moves to the closest unoccupied square. The first bolded section probably needs to be limited somehow beyond just "once a round". It shouldn't be anymore than "a single move equal to his base speed, the remainder of his movement, or a single 5' step." Over and above that, I'm pretty sure there's an "infinite movement" exploit buried in here somewhere. The second bolded section is a little sillier: what happens when your dodge buddy (who does *not* have to be adjacent or threaten), is so far away that neither his intended move nor the Knight's can connect? Perfect Defense: ... At 4th level, the Knight of the Golden Path gains a dodge bonus to his armor class equal to the number of levels in this class against the target of his dodge feat. ... +4 to +10 to AC? Even limited to just the dodge buddy, that's a little powerful. And it has zero opportunity cost. I'd suggest that it be tied to more directly to the psionic focus. In fact, I'd suggest requiring the Knight to gain his focus to do this, and last only for a limited number of rounds or until the focus is lost. Anticipate Opening: ... While psionically focused, the Knight of the Golden Path may use a full attack action to make a single attack against the target of his dodge feat and gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +2 bonus to damage rolls/level in this class. Also, if the Knight of the Golden Path scores a critical hit, the critical multiplier goes up by one step. Um. If I'm reading this correctly thats anywhere from +6/+12 to +10/+20, plus a (rare) boost to the critical multiplier, essentially for free, and for unlimited duration. This needs to be *drastically* toned down. I'd suggest dropping the critical boost, requiring the Knight to expend his focus, and only having the ability last for a very few rounds (if any more than one). If you apply both the changes I suggested (to AO and PD), you'll get AO+PD+AO+PD+AO.... Improved Uncanny Dodge I'd suggest replacing this with evasion. The Uncanny Dodge earlier will make this useless. Prescient Opportunity: The Knight of the Golden Path becomes so aware of his surroundings that he can react much more swiftly to his opponent’s tactical errors. He sees these opportunities before they happen, and can react in full. At 10th level, while psionically focused, at any time the Knight of the Golden Path is allowed an attack of opportunity against any opponent for any reason, he may take a full attack action instead of a single attack. He can choose to use his Anticipate Opening ability on this attack. I have two words: Combat Reflexes. This needs to be severely limited. I'd suggest: When the [dodge buddy] provokes an attack of opportunity from the Knight, the Knight may take a full-attack action against the [dodge buddy] as an immediate action. Even that's really nasty, but it is your capper. This class, as presented, is drastically overpowered. I just noticed your talking about providing ML progression for this as well. As it stands (and especially as currently presented) for a psionic combatant, the class is worth taking WITHOUT it. With ML, you'll need to probably cut the bonuses at least in HALF.
red_scare87 07-02-07, 08:28 PM	Hmm. Aside from the skill reqs, this is more solidly aimed at a Psychic Warrior than a Psion/Seer. Other good paths are Lurk and the Psychic Rogue. Where's Second Chance from? It's meant, almost exclusively, for Psions(Seers). Second Chance is a 5th level Seer only Power. The first bolded section probably needs to be limited somehow beyond just "once a round". It shouldn't be anymore than "a single move equal to his base speed, the remainder of his movement, or a single 5' step." Over and above that, I'm pretty sure there's an "infinite movement" exploit buried in here somewhere. I don't see how you could infinite movement out of that, but I suppose it's a possibility. It boils down to: When this one opponent takes a move action, you may take one move action. Even if the opponent takes multiple move actions in a round somehow, you still would only get one. The second bolded section is a little sillier: what happens when your dodge buddy (who does *not* have to be adjacent or threaten), is so far away that neither his intended move nor the Knight's can connect? If you're dodge target isn't anywhere near you why is he your dodge target, that seems a little silly to me. Either way though, If he's your dodge target, then you're obviously concentrating on him. And basically, I could make the same argument you just made against the dodge feat. "If your opponent isn't adjacent/threatening, then why do you still get the dodge bonus?" The answer is: Because he is the person you're concentrating on fighting. Apparently, you think that a battle in D&D should go like this: PC: I move up next to him and attack. BBEG: I full attack PC: I full attack BBEG: I full attack PC: I full attack PC: I win! PC: Okay, I move up to the next guy and attack... That is what seems silly to me. +4 to +10 to AC? Even limited to just the dodge buddy, that's a little powerful. And it has zero opportunity cost. I'd suggest that it be tied to more directly to the psionic focus. In fact, I'd suggest requiring the Knight to gain his focus to do this, and last only for a limited number of rounds or until the focus is lost. A +4 to +10 against a single opponent. You also left out the part where if you manage to be hit you lose psionic focus, which powers ALL of your other class abilities. Sure, you can just gain it again, but that would be using up an action. Um. If I'm reading this correctly thats anywhere from +6/+12 to +10/+20, plus a (rare) boost to the critical multiplier, essentially for free, and for unlimited duration. This needs to be *drastically* toned down. I'd suggest dropping the critical boost, requiring the Knight to expend his focus, and only having the ability last for a very few rounds (if any more than one). ...yes. AND you only get to make one attack. That would be the trade off right there. To be honest, I got the idea from ToB. I get a huge bonus to attack and damage(against one person) but I only get to make one attack/round. If I cut the bonus down, nobody would ever use this ability because it'd be a lot better to make a full attack. This needs to be severely limited. I'd suggest: When the [dodge buddy] provokes an attack of opportunity from the Knight, the Knight may take a full-attack action against the [dodge buddy] as an immediate action. This one I think you're actually dead on with. I think I may change it to just that. On the whole, this PrC is probably a little on the overpowered side. However, I don't think it's as drastically overpowered as you seem to think it is. I'm going to try and find ways to tone it down.
Fafnir 07-02-07, 09:02 PM	It's meant, almost exclusively, for Psions(Seers). Second Chance is a 5th level Seer only Power. Is it wise? I mean, requiring a 5th level power and high BAB to enter a class with only 5/10 ML progression? You'd need to be Seer 9, which means BAB +4, i.e. you need at the very least 10 levels before entering a class that advances something totally opposite than what you were doing before. The concept is sound, the bonuses are good, but the final result is confused between two roles. I suggest dropping the Second Chance prerequisite, as I find it being a critical flaw in the PrC's design. Without, it might be too powerful (due to being able to be taken earlier), but it's nothing a good job nerf-bat wouldn't solve, if necessary. I see much potential here, I'll keep an eye on it's progress.
red_scare87 07-02-07, 10:01 PM	Is it wise? I mean, requiring a 5th level power and high BAB to enter a class with only 5/10 ML progression? You'd need to be Seer 9, which means BAB +4, i.e. you need at the very least 10 levels before entering a class that advances something totally opposite than what you were doing before. The concept is sound, the bonuses are good, but the final result is confused between two roles. To be honest, when I was trying to work out the Entry Requirements I thought, for some reason, that a Psion had medium BAB. Perhaps I will change the requirements, and I still need to get a better handle on the flavor of the class. For some reason, it seems kind of muddled to me right now.
GuardianLurker 07-03-07, 05:51 PM	Second Chance is a 5th level Seer only Power. PsyWar 9 with Expanded Knowledge, then. I don't see how you could infinite movement out of that, but I suppose it's a possibility. It boils down to: When this one opponent takes a move action, you may take one move action. Even if the opponent takes multiple move actions in a round somehow, you still would only get one. Yeah, except there are techniques to gain multiple rounds in one. The immediate action probably stops most, I'm guessing, but a much better optimizer than me would need to confirm that the exploit isn't there. Or is. All I've got is a suspicion. If you're dodge target isn't anywhere near you why is he your dodge target, that seems a little silly to me. Well, maybe he's a fully optimized archer build? And I'm being "threatened" by some warrior mooks? The point is, there is a (silly) interpretation of the PE ability, where if you can't reach the dodge buddy, he's teleported to you. I'll admit that on a practical note it doesn't merit more than a "You've got to be kidding", but I've been perusing the CO forum again. And it always warps my mind this way. A +4 to +10 against a single opponent. You also left out the part where if you manage to be hit you lose psionic focus, which powers ALL of your other class abilities. Sure, you can just gain it again, but that would be using up an action. Except that PE, PD, and AO don't have any text requiring any psionic focus, whether gained, held, OR lost. Only Focused does. Nor do the others refer to the "Focused" ability. Which is why I suggested adding the psionic focus text. ...yes. AND you only get to make one attack. That would be the trade off right there. Yah. Except you ladle it on the attack most likely to hit anyway. I'm also not a big fan of huge bonuses - I've found they're too open to abuse (True Strike+Power Attack, for instance). Try this instead: Forced Opening: Using his insight into the future, the Knight is able to use his attacks to force larger and larger openings in his [dodge buddy's] defense. When making a full attack action against his dodge buddy, the Knight gains a +5 attack insight bonus for each prior attack in this round that was successful. Using this ability is a swift action that requires the Knight to expend his psionic focus. Example: 10th Knight with 4 iterative attacks uses this ability. His 1st attack is at +0/ but it hits. His second is at +5, but it misses. His 3rd is still at +5 and it hits. His fourth is at +10. Basically, this removes the iterative penalty, relying on the increase chance to hit to increase your damage.
Fafnir 07-03-07, 06:06 PM	PsyWar 9 with Expanded Knowledge, then. Nope, level 16. you need to be able to manifest 6th level powers before taking EK for a 5th level one.
red_scare87 07-03-07, 06:51 PM	The point is, there is a (silly) interpretation of the PE ability, where if you can't reach the dodge buddy, he's teleported to you. I'll admit that on a practical note it doesn't merit more than a "You've got to be kidding", but I've been perusing the CO forum again. And it always warps my mind this way. He's not teleported to you, read the text again. If the Knight decides to move to the same square his opponent was planning on moving to then he the opponent is shunted to the nearest available square, or in other words, he needs to change his tactic because you beat him there. Except that PE, PD, and AO don't have any text requiring any psionic focus, whether gained, held, OR lost. Only Focused does. Nor do the others refer to the "Focused" ability. I actually intended to have all the abilities require psionic focus, I missed it for Perfect Defense and Preemptive Movement though. I'll edit that in, thanks for the catch. Yah. Except you ladle it on the attack most likely to hit anyway. I'm also not a big fan of huge bonuses - I've found they're too open to abuse (True Strike+Power Attack, for instance). Try this instead: Forced Opening: Using his insight into the future, the Knight is able to use his attacks to force larger and larger openings in his [dodge buddy's] defense. When making a full attack action against his dodge buddy, the Knight gains a +5 attack insight bonus for each prior attack in this round that was successful. Using this ability is a swift action that requires the Knight to expend his psionic focus. The idea is that he immediately sees an opening and takes advantage of it. This translates into one big attack, not attacks getting better as he hits. The bonus to damage is important as well. Maybe I can find some other way to represent this though. I'll see what I can do.
GuardianLurker 07-05-07, 12:32 AM	Back to AO: the problem here is that the present text says "while pisonically focused". Granted a lot of psionic feats require expending the focus, but once gained, outside of that, it's very hard to lose. Compare AO in its present form to Greater Psionic Weapon (+4d6, requires expediture). GPW does an average of +14 damage. So AO is significantly better because 1) it doesn't require expenditure (so the Knight can use it ALL day long), 2) it provides a bonus to-hit (and a big one), 3) it provides better damage, 4) it provides a critical multiplier boost, and 5) because the bonus is static, it gets multiplied on a critical. I'm also aware the AO and FO model two different things. That was kind of the point - move the bonus from an abusive position to one that can't be abused as much, but still kicks some serious butt. Under FO, a normal psywar will essentially have 3 (or 4 if you have an optimizer) primary attacks around. A dedicated TWF'r gains even more benefit. Trust me, I dropped the damage bonus because it won't be *needed*. Ultimately, I think your problem is that without very carefully wrought requirements, a Psion(Seer) won't take it because they won't have enough hitpoints going into the class to survive the transition to frontline. But you have enough super-duper specials that every single primary combatant will be trying to get into this PrC anyway they can.
red_scare87 07-05-07, 12:54 AM	Compare AO in its present form to Greater Psionic Weapon (+4d6, requires expediture). GPW does an average of +14 damage. So AO is significantly better because 1) it doesn't require expenditure (so the Knight can use it ALL day long), 2) it provides a bonus to-hit (and a big one), 3) it provides better damage, 4) it provides a critical multiplier boost, and 5) because the bonus is static, it gets multiplied on a critical. Honestly, I'm very close to changing it at this point to either just a damage bonus(no bonus to attack) or just an attack bonus(no bonus to damage). If anybody else has a suggestion, I'll be glad to hear it. Ultimately, I think your problem is that without very carefully wrought requirements, a Psion(Seer) won't take it because they won't have enough hitpoints going into the class to survive the transition to frontline. But you have enough super-duper specials that every single primary combatant will be trying to get into this PrC anyway they can. I could fix that problem easily enough by making one of the requirements "Special: Must be a Psion specializing in clairsentience" but I'm trying to avoid that. Since I changed the entry requirements it's become especially easy for a multi-class Psion/Any Martial Class to gain entrance with only 1 level of Psion, or a low level PsyWar with EK: Precognition. I still need to fiddle with the entry requirements to make it so it's extremely difficult for anyone but a Seer to gain entrance to this PrC but not impossible for other classes at a much higher level. Any suggestions?
GuardianLurker 07-06-07, 11:42 AM	Try this for the requirements: Abilities: Str 11+, Constitution 15+ Feats: Weapon Focus (any martial melee weapon), Psionic Dodge Skills: (as above) Powers: Must be able to manifest [1st level Seer devotion power], [2nd level Seer], [3rd Level Seer], [4th level seer] Care should be taken when selecting the powers to avoid powers that also appear on other psionic classes power list (as some of the devotion-only powers do). This forces 4 EK feats, for a total of 6 feats for a non-Seer. The stat requirements show that the Seer's be thinking of combat. The martial weapon focus requires either a dip into a martial class, being a race that grants proficiency in a martial weapon (such as elf), or taking the Martial Weapon Prof feat, all of which continue the "I wanna fight" orientation. With this, you should be looking solidly at Psion (Seer) 7 as your minimum. A Psywar could get in as early as level 12, but he'd have to spend ALL his general feats (past 1st) on EKs. The psywar might even be higher; I don't remember what his power progression is.