Level 20 psion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Level 20 psion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
PrinceDargon
07-06-07, 01:19 AM I may be playing in a new campeign soon and i'm considering taking the psion class all the way to lvl 20. However, i've heard that this would make for a somewhat weak character in the later levels, reguardless of which subtype I take (i'm torn between kinetisist and shaper at present).

Was i mislead, and if so, could i get some tips in reguards to feats and powers that would be good to take for either of these paths

~ PD
InkBlot
07-06-07, 01:23 AM Psions are only weak at level 20 if you compare them Clerics or Druids, the two most powerful classes in the game. A 20th level Psion is perfectly able to deal with CR 20 threats.

In regards to kineticists, how many different kinds of energy powers do you really need? I would go with shaper.
Lycanthromancer
07-06-07, 01:30 AM After level 20, might I suggest taking 10 levels of metamind, and Practiced Manifester? You really only lose one manifester level, and at level 30, you get 10 rounds of novatastic goodness with few downsides. Otherwise, you could take 1 level of wilder and then go anarchic initiate, using your boosted manifester level to raise your psion manifester level (really nice using Practiced Manifester, too).

Anyhoo...psion 20 is a great choice, but you'll have to figure out how to best utilize your epic abilities. After all, your powers do scale (most of them infinitely) but you only have so many power points. Make judicious use of your psionic and metapsionic feats, and you might just be able to kick some epic arse while you're at it.
runestar
07-06-07, 01:48 AM Considering that there is a dearth of psionic prcs with full manifesting, pure psion is actually one of the smarter career paths, IMO.:)
BloodSpill
07-06-07, 02:11 AM ? I didn't see anything about 'epic' in the original post.

Option 1: Shaper, Seer, Nomad or Egoist 20
Option 2: Kinetecist 10/Archaic Initiate 10
Option 3: Telepath 6/Thrallherd 9/Telepath 5

I liked the 'constructor' prc but it isn't awesome enough at high levels.
CrimsonDeath
07-06-07, 03:59 AM Considering that there is a dearth of psionic prcs with full manifesting, pure psion is actually one of the smarter career paths, IMO.:)

It's the direction I decided to go with my Nomad.
PrinceDargon
07-06-07, 08:37 AM Glad to see i wont be nerfing myself with this class. Now, any suggestions on shaper powers? Aside from cocoon, Hail of Crystals, and Astral Construct, what else would a good shaper want to take? Is matter agitation worth bothering with at all?
Fafnir
07-06-07, 09:38 AM Glad to see i wont be nerfing myself with this class. Now, any suggestions on shaper powers? Aside from cocoon, Hail of Crystals, and Astral Construct, what else would a good shaper want to take? Is matter agitation worth bothering with at all?

Shaper only? Minor Creation, Fabricate, Psionic Repair Damage, Quintessence, Grater Concealing Amorpha.

Otherwise, there are lots... Crystal Shard, Energy Wall, Entangling Ectoplasm, Ego Whip, and more at higher levels.

Matter Agitation is very cost efficient, but:
1) It's very slow in combat.
2)Outside of fights, it can be used as a blowtorch, but pretty much anything has enough hardness to resist it. I'd go with Energy Ray instead.
Minmaximus
07-06-07, 09:41 AM Astral construct is the only really good shaper power. And you can steal it with expanded knowledge. I would be a kineticist. And do not take meta mind. Awful. Go all the way and get tornado blast.
Fafnir
07-06-07, 10:40 AM Astral construct is the only really good shaper power. And you can steal it with expanded knowledge. I would be a kineticist. And do not take meta mind. Awful. Go all the way and get tornado blast.

:nonono: I highly differ on the subject. Each one of the powers I mentioned is exceptionally useful (except maybe for GCA which has less overall versatility). The ability to create enough poison to coat your whole equipment or to fabricate, let's say, adamantium into weapons instantaneously is invaluable.
Minmaximus
07-06-07, 10:53 AM :nonono: I highly differ on the subject. Each one of the powers I mentioned is exceptionally useful (except maybe for GCA which has less overall versatility). The ability to create enough poison to coat your whole equipment or to fabricate, let's say, adamantium into weapons instantaneously is invaluable.

Tornado blast. Embrace your inner Timmy, and let er rip
Lycanthromancer
07-06-07, 12:26 PM Actually, greater concealing amorpha is awesome any time during a fight. Note that YOU CANNOT MAKE ATTACKS OF OPPORTUNITY AGAINST A CREATURE WITH TOTAL CONCEALMENT. This means that you can be flanked from all sides and manifest with impunity, run around the battlefield and through threatened spaces, and so on, WITHOUT WORRY. Nice.

Anyway, blasting is overrated, though psions do do it better than most others (which isn't a bad thing at all).

Psionic minor creation is an amazingly versatile power, as are fabricate and (especially) greater fabricate. If you play your cards right, it's the psionic wall of stone/ice/iron/etc, especially with solicit psicrystal (so you have two going simultaneously).

Burrowing Power + touchsight + ectoplasmic coccoon and psionic fly, and you can manifest while being virtually invulnerable. It's better than stoneskin or greater concealing amorpha, though it's definitely more resource-intensive.

Astral construct is one of the best, most versatile powers in the XPH, what with it's (mildly) offensive, (incredibly) defensive, and (uber) utility uses.

If you have a wizard friend, you can use quintessence to create delayed blast fireball grenades. You can also use it to make traps, emulate the gentle repose spell, hold creatures in stasis, create time-resistant gloves when you need to touch something dangerous, extend the shelf-life on your foodstuffs and time-sensitive items, or even open a beauty-salon, where your customers keep their skin looking young by actually keeping it young (combine with rings of regeneration for best effect).

The shaper class is all about using clever strategies to get around your problems. It is excessively utility-oriented, but it's also great at battlefield control and is insane for power point-efficiency. I had a 14th-level shaper/constructor that could use his powers all day and never even come close to running out of pp. In fact, even when I went blasting (with wall of energy) against an army of 20,000 hobgoblins, I managed to destroy over half of them by myself without even hitting the half-way mark.

Heh. Constructor for the win.
Knight0
07-06-07, 12:54 PM Psion 10/ Metamind 10 SUCKS horribly. remember you only have the powers known and pp per day of a 15th level manifester.

I was looking through the prestiege classes again last night. Psion uncarnate I am wanting to take in this campaign for the incorporeal subtype and Disguise self and telekinesis at will also sounds nice. Illithid slayer is also a good prestiege class. Lose one manifester level for Full bab, D8 HD and Permenant Mindblank.

Otherwise I would go straight Psion
Lycanthromancer
07-06-07, 01:28 PM Yeah, metamind sucks. Until you're already epic. You don't get more power points or powers known anyway, so why not take full advantage of the class's quirks? With Practiced Manifester, you only "lose" one manifester level. With Overchannel or wild surge, you can cover over that one lost ML, so it's all good.
Lokiyn
07-06-07, 04:09 PM Did someone say Minor creation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D747757)?

(ah, shameless plugs, i need to figue out how to automatically replace the phrase minor creation with that link, for everyone)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PrinceDargon 07-06-07, 01:19 AM	I may be playing in a new campeign soon and i'm considering taking the psion class all the way to lvl 20. However, i've heard that this would make for a somewhat weak character in the later levels, reguardless of which subtype I take (i'm torn between kinetisist and shaper at present). Was i mislead, and if so, could i get some tips in reguards to feats and powers that would be good to take for either of these paths ~ PD
InkBlot 07-06-07, 01:23 AM	Psions are only weak at level 20 if you compare them Clerics or Druids, the two most powerful classes in the game. A 20th level Psion is perfectly able to deal with CR 20 threats. In regards to kineticists, how many different kinds of energy powers do you really need? I would go with shaper.
Lycanthromancer 07-06-07, 01:30 AM	After level 20, might I suggest taking 10 levels of metamind, and Practiced Manifester? You really only lose one manifester level, and at level 30, you get 10 rounds of novatastic goodness with few downsides. Otherwise, you could take 1 level of wilder and then go anarchic initiate, using your boosted manifester level to raise your psion manifester level (really nice using Practiced Manifester, too). Anyhoo...psion 20 is a great choice, but you'll have to figure out how to best utilize your epic abilities. After all, your powers do scale (most of them infinitely) but you only have so many power points. Make judicious use of your psionic and metapsionic feats, and you might just be able to kick some epic arse while you're at it.
runestar 07-06-07, 01:48 AM	Considering that there is a dearth of psionic prcs with full manifesting, pure psion is actually one of the smarter career paths, IMO.:)
BloodSpill 07-06-07, 02:11 AM	? I didn't see anything about 'epic' in the original post. Option 1: Shaper, Seer, Nomad or Egoist 20 Option 2: Kinetecist 10/Archaic Initiate 10 Option 3: Telepath 6/Thrallherd 9/Telepath 5 I liked the 'constructor' prc but it isn't awesome enough at high levels.
CrimsonDeath 07-06-07, 03:59 AM	Considering that there is a dearth of psionic prcs with full manifesting, pure psion is actually one of the smarter career paths, IMO.:) It's the direction I decided to go with my Nomad.
PrinceDargon 07-06-07, 08:37 AM	Glad to see i wont be nerfing myself with this class. Now, any suggestions on shaper powers? Aside from cocoon, Hail of Crystals, and Astral Construct, what else would a good shaper want to take? Is matter agitation worth bothering with at all?
Fafnir 07-06-07, 09:38 AM	Glad to see i wont be nerfing myself with this class. Now, any suggestions on shaper powers? Aside from cocoon, Hail of Crystals, and Astral Construct, what else would a good shaper want to take? Is matter agitation worth bothering with at all? Shaper only? Minor Creation, Fabricate, Psionic Repair Damage, Quintessence, Grater Concealing Amorpha. Otherwise, there are lots... Crystal Shard, Energy Wall, Entangling Ectoplasm, Ego Whip, and more at higher levels. Matter Agitation is very cost efficient, but: 1) It's very slow in combat. 2)Outside of fights, it can be used as a blowtorch, but pretty much anything has enough hardness to resist it. I'd go with Energy Ray instead.
Minmaximus 07-06-07, 09:41 AM	Astral construct is the only really good shaper power. And you can steal it with expanded knowledge. I would be a kineticist. And do not take meta mind. Awful. Go all the way and get tornado blast.
Fafnir 07-06-07, 10:40 AM	Astral construct is the only really good shaper power. And you can steal it with expanded knowledge. I would be a kineticist. And do not take meta mind. Awful. Go all the way and get tornado blast. :nonono: I highly differ on the subject. Each one of the powers I mentioned is exceptionally useful (except maybe for GCA which has less overall versatility). The ability to create enough poison to coat your whole equipment or to fabricate, let's say, adamantium into weapons instantaneously is invaluable.
Minmaximus 07-06-07, 10:53 AM	:nonono: I highly differ on the subject. Each one of the powers I mentioned is exceptionally useful (except maybe for GCA which has less overall versatility). The ability to create enough poison to coat your whole equipment or to fabricate, let's say, adamantium into weapons instantaneously is invaluable. Tornado blast. Embrace your inner Timmy, and let er rip
Lycanthromancer 07-06-07, 12:26 PM	Actually, greater concealing amorpha is awesome any time during a fight. Note that YOU CANNOT MAKE ATTACKS OF OPPORTUNITY AGAINST A CREATURE WITH TOTAL CONCEALMENT. This means that you can be flanked from all sides and manifest with impunity, run around the battlefield and through threatened spaces, and so on, WITHOUT WORRY. Nice. Anyway, blasting is overrated, though psions do do it better than most others (which isn't a bad thing at all). Psionic minor creation is an amazingly versatile power, as are fabricate and (especially) greater fabricate. If you play your cards right, it's the psionic wall of stone/ice/iron/etc, especially with solicit psicrystal (so you have two going simultaneously). Burrowing Power + touchsight + ectoplasmic coccoon and psionic fly, and you can manifest while being virtually invulnerable. It's better than stoneskin or greater concealing amorpha, though it's definitely more resource-intensive. Astral construct is one of the best, most versatile powers in the XPH, what with it's (mildly) offensive, (incredibly) defensive, and (uber) utility uses. If you have a wizard friend, you can use quintessence to create delayed blast fireball grenades. You can also use it to make traps, emulate the gentle repose spell, hold creatures in stasis, create time-resistant gloves when you need to touch something dangerous, extend the shelf-life on your foodstuffs and time-sensitive items, or even open a beauty-salon, where your customers keep their skin looking young by actually keeping it young (combine with rings of regeneration for best effect). The shaper class is all about using clever strategies to get around your problems. It is excessively utility-oriented, but it's also great at battlefield control and is insane for power point-efficiency. I had a 14th-level shaper/constructor that could use his powers all day and never even come close to running out of pp. In fact, even when I went blasting (with wall of energy) against an army of 20,000 hobgoblins, I managed to destroy over half of them by myself without even hitting the half-way mark. Heh. Constructor for the win.
Knight0 07-06-07, 12:54 PM	Psion 10/ Metamind 10 SUCKS horribly. remember you only have the powers known and pp per day of a 15th level manifester. I was looking through the prestiege classes again last night. Psion uncarnate I am wanting to take in this campaign for the incorporeal subtype and Disguise self and telekinesis at will also sounds nice. Illithid slayer is also a good prestiege class. Lose one manifester level for Full bab, D8 HD and Permenant Mindblank. Otherwise I would go straight Psion
Lycanthromancer 07-06-07, 01:28 PM	Yeah, metamind sucks. Until you're already epic. You don't get more power points or powers known anyway, so why not take full advantage of the class's quirks? With Practiced Manifester, you only "lose" one manifester level. With Overchannel or wild surge, you can cover over that one lost ML, so it's all good.
Lokiyn 07-06-07, 04:09 PM	Did someone say Minor creation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D747757)? (ah, shameless plugs, i need to figue out how to automatically replace the phrase minor creation with that link, for everyone)