Lurk Expanded Class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Lurk Expanded Class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AskaniPsion
01-15-08, 07:17 AM I am thinking of making a Lurk using the Expanded thief variant found here in this article:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a

At 3rd level, one of my Lurk augments is "Psionic Uncanny Dodge".

At 14th level, I get "Psionic Improved Evasion" - it says if I lose focus, it returns back down to regular evasion??? No where in the description does it say I get regular evasion on my list.

Is the Uncanny Dodge a typo and should be Evasion instead? Or does the Improved Evasion have a typo and it should just say "if you lose focus, it becomes regular evasion"?

Shouldn't this variant also get the Diasble Device and Search skills since he gets "Psionic Trapfinding" ability?

Was there a correction to this article?

Thanks to anyone who can help!
rilem
01-15-08, 11:16 AM Lurks get evasion on their own. Level 9, I think.

And don't take the True Thief variant. Notice the lack of Search and Disable Device on your class list -- with the variant DOES NOT give you. And you lose Mental Assault, one of the best Lurk augments.

Just take regular Lurk, Able Learner and a dip into Scout, Rogue or Trapfinding Ranger.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi
01-15-08, 03:38 PM I've gotta agree with rilem. Don't go true thief. If you must do some sort of psionic rogue, go psychic rogue from Mind's Eye. But honestly, I prefer the tracker variant on the same page. I can't attest to the power comparison (no play experience with either), but it has my favorite augments, plus some really cool other ones. Plus, it makes a better bounty hunter than the ranger.

And btw, yes, lurk does get evasion.
InkBlot
01-15-08, 03:58 PM The Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) is a far better psychic rogue than the Lurk could ever be. The Lurk is more like a Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) base class.
AskaniPsion
01-15-08, 10:00 PM Lurks get evasion on their own. Level 9, I think.

And don't take the True Thief variant. Notice the lack of Search and Disable Device on your class list -- with the variant DOES NOT give you. And you lose Mental Assault, one of the best Lurk augments.

Just take regular Lurk, Able Learner and a dip into Scout, Rogue or Trapfinding Ranger.

Oops I missed the Evasion...I guess cause it was higher level to get it. You would think they would get it sooner than 9th.

I know about the Psychic Rogue but the reason I didn't choose that over the Lurk is the AWFUL PP/day and Powers Known that it gets. The Trapfinding skills is a minor aspect to me but most of the regular Lurk Augments SUCK. They have VERY low DCs so really aren't worth taking. I don't picture my Lurk taking the Tracking version either.

My DM was going to allow me to add Disable Device & Search to the Thief variant Lurk. I also like that they get high REF And Will.

The Lurk gets more Powers Known and PP/Day. I want a Psi-class that isn't the Psion (my favorite class btw), has more skill points, sneaky skills, better weapon choice, decent Powers Known and cool flavor. I don't care for the Charisma stat for the Wilder. So basically I wanted a more sneaky type Psi-class with decent Powers.
rilem
01-15-08, 10:30 PM The Lurk's standard augments aren't great -- but the True Thief Lurk's are worse by a mile. You'd be better off dipping, but your call, of course.
AskaniPsion
01-16-08, 12:11 AM The Lurk's standard augments aren't great -- but the True Thief Lurk's are worse by a mile. You'd be better off dipping, but your call, of course.

By dipping do you mean multiclassing?
InkBlot
01-16-08, 01:18 AM "Dipping" is when you only take very few, usually just one, level in a class in order to get a very nice class feature it has. For example, a player who wants her character to be as diplomatic as possible may dip 1 level into Marshal, in order to get free Skill Focus (Diplomacy) and the ability to add her Charisma modifier to Diplomacy twice.
AskaniPsion
01-16-08, 06:47 AM "Dipping" is when you only take very few, usually just one, level in a class in order to get a very nice class feature it has. For example, a player who wants her character to be as diplomatic as possible may dip 1 level into Marshal, in order to get free Skill Focus (Diplomacy) and the ability to add her Charisma modifier to Diplomacy twice.

ah gotcha - Thanks!
rilem
01-16-08, 10:17 AM Right, should've been clearer. Dipping makes particular sense for the Lurk, which at Level1 is just lousy. Per the rules FAQ, they can't even access their 1st level Additional Sneak Attack Augment until level2, because they don't have Sneak Attack yet.

So: Take a level of Psychic Rogue or Rogue or Scout or something that gives you Sneak Attack or its equivalent at level 1 (in addition to trapfinding and more skill points). Then take Lurk at level2, and you'll be able to use the augment right away. You don't even really need Able Learner, as your Int. is presumably high and you can buy Search or Disable Device .cross-class.
Asurya
01-16-08, 11:43 AM as for getting trapfinding, 2 feat give it to you
MoI::Shape soulmeld [theft gloves] // available @ 1st
MoI::Open least chackra [hands] // available @ 6th

voila!

(you should toss MoI::Split chackra in at some point to use magical gloves at the same time as your meld)
rilem
01-16-08, 12:15 PM as for getting trapfinding, 2 feat give it to you
MoI::Shape soulmeld [theft gloves] // available @ 1st
MoI::Open least chackra [hands] // available @ 6th

voila!

(you should toss MoI::Split chackra in at some point to use magical gloves at the same time as your meld)

Sure. But Lurks are tight on feats; they can't spare three. And even this trick doesn't give you Search or Disable Device (nor do you have enough essentia to offset this lack) so you're still screwed.
AskaniPsion
01-16-08, 07:13 PM I actually want more psionic powers/abilities than thief skills. I was going to "dip" into a psion most likely.

With a ranger & a paladin who are going to be in the party, there is no reason for me to be upfront either.

I was going to take a Flaw so that would give me an extra feat. I was going to use the Elan background here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070620.

So for one feat I was going to take Hidden Talent: Dimension Hop. Lurk's really should have had it on their list anyway.

For other feat, I was thinking maybe the Scion of the Twelve feat.

I would probably "dip" into a Psion (Seer) at 2nd. The Scion feat would give me +2 to my clairsentience powers.

Eventually I was thinking of taking Shadowmind. I want to be a psionic information gatherer.

Lurk 1st: Chameleon
Seer 1st: Vigor, Precognition (Defensive), Entangling Ecto
rilem
01-16-08, 10:25 PM Seer? Ick. You realize your manifester level doesn't improve with that dip, right? So you'll never be able to augment Vigor or Precog (D).

Shadowmind's OK, as it boosts your powers and keeps the overall focus (though it's built around the subpar Cloud Mind). I tend to prefer Elocater, which offers better bonus powers and gives more skill points.

If you want more psionic powers, just go straight Seer into something. Don't mess with Lurk at all.
AskaniPsion
01-16-08, 11:44 PM Seer? Ick. You realize your manifester level doesn't improve with that dip, right? So you'll never be able to augment Vigor or Precog (D).

Shadowmind's OK, as it boosts your powers and keeps the overall focus (though it's built around the subpar Cloud Mind). I tend to prefer Elocater, which offers better bonus powers and gives more skill points.

If you want more psionic powers, just go straight Seer into something. Don't mess with Lurk at all.

Yeah the Elocater is very cool and I thought of that but you have to use up 3 feats for the class - Mobilty, Dodge (which is a waste) and Spring Attack.

I always prefer the telepath over the Seer.

Yeah Cloud Mind is awful and so is the Concealing Ecto power you need for the prestige class.

I got a week before I make the character so looking over everything.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AskaniPsion 01-15-08, 07:17 AM	I am thinking of making a Lurk using the Expanded thief variant found here in this article: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a At 3rd level, one of my Lurk augments is "Psionic Uncanny Dodge". At 14th level, I get "Psionic Improved Evasion" - it says if I lose focus, it returns back down to regular evasion??? No where in the description does it say I get regular evasion on my list. Is the Uncanny Dodge a typo and should be Evasion instead? Or does the Improved Evasion have a typo and it should just say "if you lose focus, it becomes regular evasion"? Shouldn't this variant also get the Diasble Device and Search skills since he gets "Psionic Trapfinding" ability? Was there a correction to this article? Thanks to anyone who can help!
rilem 01-15-08, 11:16 AM	Lurks get evasion on their own. Level 9, I think. And don't take the True Thief variant. Notice the lack of Search and Disable Device on your class list -- with the variant DOES NOT give you. And you lose Mental Assault, one of the best Lurk augments. Just take regular Lurk, Able Learner and a dip into Scout, Rogue or Trapfinding Ranger.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 01-15-08, 03:38 PM	I've gotta agree with rilem. Don't go true thief. If you must do some sort of psionic rogue, go psychic rogue from Mind's Eye. But honestly, I prefer the tracker variant on the same page. I can't attest to the power comparison (no play experience with either), but it has my favorite augments, plus some really cool other ones. Plus, it makes a better bounty hunter than the ranger. And btw, yes, lurk does get evasion.
InkBlot 01-15-08, 03:58 PM	The Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) is a far better psychic rogue than the Lurk could ever be. The Lurk is more like a Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) base class.
AskaniPsion 01-15-08, 10:00 PM	Lurks get evasion on their own. Level 9, I think. And don't take the True Thief variant. Notice the lack of Search and Disable Device on your class list -- with the variant DOES NOT give you. And you lose Mental Assault, one of the best Lurk augments. Just take regular Lurk, Able Learner and a dip into Scout, Rogue or Trapfinding Ranger. Oops I missed the Evasion...I guess cause it was higher level to get it. You would think they would get it sooner than 9th. I know about the Psychic Rogue but the reason I didn't choose that over the Lurk is the AWFUL PP/day and Powers Known that it gets. The Trapfinding skills is a minor aspect to me but most of the regular Lurk Augments SUCK. They have VERY low DCs so really aren't worth taking. I don't picture my Lurk taking the Tracking version either. My DM was going to allow me to add Disable Device & Search to the Thief variant Lurk. I also like that they get high REF And Will. The Lurk gets more Powers Known and PP/Day. I want a Psi-class that isn't the Psion (my favorite class btw), has more skill points, sneaky skills, better weapon choice, decent Powers Known and cool flavor. I don't care for the Charisma stat for the Wilder. So basically I wanted a more sneaky type Psi-class with decent Powers.
rilem 01-15-08, 10:30 PM	The Lurk's standard augments aren't great -- but the True Thief Lurk's are worse by a mile. You'd be better off dipping, but your call, of course.
AskaniPsion 01-16-08, 12:11 AM	The Lurk's standard augments aren't great -- but the True Thief Lurk's are worse by a mile. You'd be better off dipping, but your call, of course. By dipping do you mean multiclassing?
InkBlot 01-16-08, 01:18 AM	"Dipping" is when you only take very few, usually just one, level in a class in order to get a very nice class feature it has. For example, a player who wants her character to be as diplomatic as possible may dip 1 level into Marshal, in order to get free Skill Focus (Diplomacy) and the ability to add her Charisma modifier to Diplomacy twice.
AskaniPsion 01-16-08, 06:47 AM	"Dipping" is when you only take very few, usually just one, level in a class in order to get a very nice class feature it has. For example, a player who wants her character to be as diplomatic as possible may dip 1 level into Marshal, in order to get free Skill Focus (Diplomacy) and the ability to add her Charisma modifier to Diplomacy twice. ah gotcha - Thanks!
rilem 01-16-08, 10:17 AM	Right, should've been clearer. Dipping makes particular sense for the Lurk, which at Level1 is just lousy. Per the rules FAQ, they can't even access their 1st level Additional Sneak Attack Augment until level2, because they don't have Sneak Attack yet. So: Take a level of Psychic Rogue or Rogue or Scout or something that gives you Sneak Attack or its equivalent at level 1 (in addition to trapfinding and more skill points). Then take Lurk at level2, and you'll be able to use the augment right away. You don't even really need Able Learner, as your Int. is presumably high and you can buy Search or Disable Device .cross-class.
Asurya 01-16-08, 11:43 AM	as for getting trapfinding, 2 feat give it to you MoI::Shape soulmeld [theft gloves] // available @ 1st MoI::Open least chackra [hands] // available @ 6th voila! (you should toss MoI::Split chackra in at some point to use magical gloves at the same time as your meld)
rilem 01-16-08, 12:15 PM	as for getting trapfinding, 2 feat give it to you MoI::Shape soulmeld [theft gloves] // available @ 1st MoI::Open least chackra [hands] // available @ 6th voila! (you should toss MoI::Split chackra in at some point to use magical gloves at the same time as your meld) Sure. But Lurks are tight on feats; they can't spare three. And even this trick doesn't give you Search or Disable Device (nor do you have enough essentia to offset this lack) so you're still screwed.
AskaniPsion 01-16-08, 07:13 PM	I actually want more psionic powers/abilities than thief skills. I was going to "dip" into a psion most likely. With a ranger & a paladin who are going to be in the party, there is no reason for me to be upfront either. I was going to take a Flaw so that would give me an extra feat. I was going to use the Elan background here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070620. So for one feat I was going to take Hidden Talent: Dimension Hop. Lurk's really should have had it on their list anyway. For other feat, I was thinking maybe the Scion of the Twelve feat. I would probably "dip" into a Psion (Seer) at 2nd. The Scion feat would give me +2 to my clairsentience powers. Eventually I was thinking of taking Shadowmind. I want to be a psionic information gatherer. Lurk 1st: Chameleon Seer 1st: Vigor, Precognition (Defensive), Entangling Ecto
rilem 01-16-08, 10:25 PM	Seer? Ick. You realize your manifester level doesn't improve with that dip, right? So you'll never be able to augment Vigor or Precog (D). Shadowmind's OK, as it boosts your powers and keeps the overall focus (though it's built around the subpar Cloud Mind). I tend to prefer Elocater, which offers better bonus powers and gives more skill points. If you want more psionic powers, just go straight Seer into something. Don't mess with Lurk at all.
AskaniPsion 01-16-08, 11:44 PM	Seer? Ick. You realize your manifester level doesn't improve with that dip, right? So you'll never be able to augment Vigor or Precog (D). Shadowmind's OK, as it boosts your powers and keeps the overall focus (though it's built around the subpar Cloud Mind). I tend to prefer Elocater, which offers better bonus powers and gives more skill points. If you want more psionic powers, just go straight Seer into something. Don't mess with Lurk at all. Yeah the Elocater is very cool and I thought of that but you have to use up 3 feats for the class - Mobilty, Dodge (which is a waste) and Spring Attack. I always prefer the telepath over the Seer. Yeah Cloud Mind is awful and so is the Concealing Ecto power you need for the prestige class. I got a week before I make the character so looking over everything.