Lurk Problems [Archive] - Wizards Community

Lurk Problems [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Agaib
02-16-08, 08:55 PM Hi, I was DMing for a party of several characters one of which is a lurk.

I planned on having them fight a tough battle against a Battletitan from the MMIII but in the first round of combat the lurk augmented a couple of hits to do intelligence damage and defeated the creature easily.

This is starting to become a pattern. Am I missing some rules on how the intelligence damage from the mental assault works or is it just a poorly thought out ability?

I tried to look to see if anyone posted a question like this before but I couldn't find one. Thanks.
CrimsonDeath
02-16-08, 10:46 PM It's not necessarily a poorly thought-out ability. You just shouldn't expect a creature of the Animal type to be a tough battle for a Lurk, since one Mental Assault will knock it unconscious.

Note that using a Lurk Augment requires a Swift action, and Mental Assault only applies to the Lurk's next attack, so if that attack misses, the augment is wasted and can't be used again until the next round; subsequent attacks during that round just do normal damage.
kelvinaw273
02-17-08, 04:46 AM What he said, basically.

The Lurk is a nasty one-shot killer, and if any foe you send against them has an Achilles heel, you can bet they'll hit it if they know it. So ...

1) Try to give creatures unexpected Achille's heels, if any.

2) The Lurk only has 3/4 BAB, so a high AC can stimmy them.

3) Don't rely on single foes for tough battles - use multiple enemies, the Lurk can only take down one at a time. Also, they are limited to a maximum of one good hit per turn. Like a flanking rogue they don't work if you pin them down with multiple foes.
rilem
02-18-08, 04:06 PM This is starting to become a pattern.

If it's becoming a pattern, you're throwing too many dumb monsters at the party.

Mental Assault is the Lurk's one really good trick, and it's powerful. It even works against undead/oozes, because it's not mind-affecting. And there are ways of getting around that AC -- Pyrokineticist or Warblade can give you easy, all-day touch attacks.

But don't blame the player for using what is typically a weak class to the best effect possible. Do, however, punish the heck out of a player who has obviously memorized the monster listings and automatically knows which monsters have poor Int. or Wisdom. (In Eberron, knowing a Battletitan is stupid isn't a stretch, but I thought I'd mention it).
InkBlot
02-18-08, 04:54 PM Warblade can give you easy, all-day touch attacks.
Only every other round, at best, if you're not using any of the classes other principle class features (maneuvers). The psionic feat Deep Impact does the same thing, at the same rate.

Do, however, punish the heck out of a player who has obviously memorized the monster listings and automatically knows which monsters have poor Int. or Wisdom.

Unless, of course, the player gave his character ranks in several knowledge skills and makes the knowledge checks to determine which enemies have low int or wis. If you're playing Complete Scoundrel, she might also take the Collector Of Tales skill trick for a +5 to knowledge checks made to ID a creature.

Anyway, what everyone says is right. You should almost never pit the party against one big creature. Even with a standard adventuring party it's a bad idea; you'd be just asking for the Wizard to end it all in one standard action with a save-or-die.
rilem
02-18-08, 08:16 PM Only every other round, at best, if you're not using any of the classes other principle class features (maneuvers). The psionic feat Deep Impact does the same thing, at the same rate.

Deep impact's a poor choice for lurk, for me anyway. Blowing a focus means giving up psionic sneak attack, and any feats or augments that rely on sneak attack. Better all-day options include dorge of psychic scimitar (thru use psionic device) or a spectral blade.

On the knowledge thing; agreed, though lurks have limited skills. I was just pointing it out.
mod5000
02-18-08, 08:58 PM Try using 4 encounters per day--lurks suffer from low PP, and share the same "problem" as all psionic characters, which is that if they know they're only going against a single encounter per day, they can spend PP like crazy, defeating it with ease. Have a number of encounters every day, forcing them to spend 25% of their resources per encounter, and I think the lurk will rank right there with other characters, if not a little lower.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Agaib 02-16-08, 08:55 PM	Hi, I was DMing for a party of several characters one of which is a lurk. I planned on having them fight a tough battle against a Battletitan from the MMIII but in the first round of combat the lurk augmented a couple of hits to do intelligence damage and defeated the creature easily. This is starting to become a pattern. Am I missing some rules on how the intelligence damage from the mental assault works or is it just a poorly thought out ability? I tried to look to see if anyone posted a question like this before but I couldn't find one. Thanks.
CrimsonDeath 02-16-08, 10:46 PM	It's not necessarily a poorly thought-out ability. You just shouldn't expect a creature of the Animal type to be a tough battle for a Lurk, since one Mental Assault will knock it unconscious. Note that using a Lurk Augment requires a Swift action, and Mental Assault only applies to the Lurk's next attack, so if that attack misses, the augment is wasted and can't be used again until the next round; subsequent attacks during that round just do normal damage.
kelvinaw273 02-17-08, 04:46 AM	What he said, basically. The Lurk is a nasty one-shot killer, and if any foe you send against them has an Achilles heel, you can bet they'll hit it if they know it. So ... 1) Try to give creatures unexpected Achille's heels, if any. 2) The Lurk only has 3/4 BAB, so a high AC can stimmy them. 3) Don't rely on single foes for tough battles - use multiple enemies, the Lurk can only take down one at a time. Also, they are limited to a maximum of one good hit per turn. Like a flanking rogue they don't work if you pin them down with multiple foes.
rilem 02-18-08, 04:06 PM	This is starting to become a pattern. If it's becoming a pattern, you're throwing too many dumb monsters at the party. Mental Assault is the Lurk's one really good trick, and it's powerful. It even works against undead/oozes, because it's not mind-affecting. And there are ways of getting around that AC -- Pyrokineticist or Warblade can give you easy, all-day touch attacks. But don't blame the player for using what is typically a weak class to the best effect possible. Do, however, punish the heck out of a player who has obviously memorized the monster listings and automatically knows which monsters have poor Int. or Wisdom. (In Eberron, knowing a Battletitan is stupid isn't a stretch, but I thought I'd mention it).
InkBlot 02-18-08, 04:54 PM	Warblade can give you easy, all-day touch attacks. Only every other round, at best, if you're not using any of the classes other principle class features (maneuvers). The psionic feat Deep Impact does the same thing, at the same rate. Do, however, punish the heck out of a player who has obviously memorized the monster listings and automatically knows which monsters have poor Int. or Wisdom. Unless, of course, the player gave his character ranks in several knowledge skills and makes the knowledge checks to determine which enemies have low int or wis. If you're playing Complete Scoundrel, she might also take the Collector Of Tales skill trick for a +5 to knowledge checks made to ID a creature. Anyway, what everyone says is right. You should almost never pit the party against one big creature. Even with a standard adventuring party it's a bad idea; you'd be just asking for the Wizard to end it all in one standard action with a save-or-die.
rilem 02-18-08, 08:16 PM	Only every other round, at best, if you're not using any of the classes other principle class features (maneuvers). The psionic feat Deep Impact does the same thing, at the same rate. Deep impact's a poor choice for lurk, for me anyway. Blowing a focus means giving up psionic sneak attack, and any feats or augments that rely on sneak attack. Better all-day options include dorge of psychic scimitar (thru use psionic device) or a spectral blade. On the knowledge thing; agreed, though lurks have limited skills. I was just pointing it out.
mod5000 02-18-08, 08:58 PM	Try using 4 encounters per day--lurks suffer from low PP, and share the same "problem" as all psionic characters, which is that if they know they're only going against a single encounter per day, they can spend PP like crazy, defeating it with ease. Have a number of encounters every day, forcing them to spend 25% of their resources per encounter, and I think the lurk will rank right there with other characters, if not a little lower.