Making a Psion Uncarnate and need help!!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Making a Psion Uncarnate and need help!!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bullvinne
10-24-07, 03:54 PM Hello all you wonderful people!!!

I am doing a Psionic character in an upcomming campaign and this is what I have decided to do. But I need help fleshing out the details. The campaign has 5 PCs

Pally-Tank
Ranger-Physical DPS
Wizard-Magic DPS
Cleric-Healer
and me

with our current setup we have to trap finder so I have to take that role, but I dont like playing rogue-ish classes so this is what I was planning on doing

Level 1- Factotem or other class with the trapfinding class feature at level 1 with Able learner because I need to fill the role of trapfinder/disabler but dont really want to play a rogue character.

Levels 2-6- Psion, Disipline undecided (need help with synergy with Psion Uncarnate) and need help with feats.

Levels 7-16- Psion Uncarnate, Need help with feats that have synergy with the Incorporial aspect of the Psion Uncarnate and the manifesting of powers

Levels 17-20-Psion for better manifesting

I also need advice on power selection
Please do what you can to help me, Thanks
chicgeek
10-24-07, 05:46 PM Psion Uncarnate is not that great a prestige class, offering manifesting for a meager (but eventually strong) class feature. But if you're dead set on it, more (er, or less) power to you. You should definitely get Psicrystal Affinity, so that when you are incarnate, you still have a way to manipulate (minutely) the physical world.

I think really good synergy would come with a Shaper--creating matter from pure thought. You can even use Astral Constructs to trigger traps--and you should also get the Cleric to make wands of Find Traps.
DracoPhoenix
10-25-07, 06:04 AM As far as uncarnate goes,

I'm partial to Expanded knowledge(energy missiles) as my standard munitions. Up to 5 targets, nearly always some damage.

Also, for those times when incorporeality gets to you, Skin of Proteus. Just don't use assume equipment on it, shape into a humanoid and job done. (would also allow you to constantly use TK Force while "corporeal" :))

Assume your Handy haversack - and keep everything in it. Technically, the items are stored in a pocket dimension, so you're not assuming those. Just the portal.

That leaves you with 6-7 body slots at Uncarnate 10 - depending on if you want a weapon incorporeal too.

Inertial AC is a skin tight force effect - so it'll change shape with you. no need for shaping AC.

Dorje of Force Screen, for that lil AC boost. (+4 shield AC for 1 charge, better that spending a known power for a (hopefully) emergency use power)

Pearls of Power, if you play they auto regen PP.
Bullvinne
10-25-07, 11:21 AM ah nice Ideas mates, thanks and keep em coming!!!
DracoPhoenix
10-25-07, 11:29 AM See if you can sweet talk your DM into allowing you to take a feat for trap finding (&search as a class skill).

Failing that, a level of psionic artificer might be worth it.
Bullvinne
10-25-07, 12:53 PM what book is the psionic artificer in?
SlanderPanic
10-25-07, 01:11 PM I'd go for lurk (with the True Thief alternative class feature (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a).) You'll probably want to go straight lurk/psion uncarnate. You'll be delaying your entry into psion uncarnate until 8th level, but I think you'll find it worth the wait. Being able to become incorporeal is incredibly useful to an assassin-type character and you'll be able to act in a roguelike capacity for your party both before and afterwards.

Better yet, go straight lurk (with True Thief) or psychic rogue (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b). You'll find much love for the psychic rogue here.
Bullvinne
10-25-07, 02:35 PM Quote:
I'd go for lurk (with the True Thief alternative class feature.) You'll probably want to go straight lurk/psion uncarnate. You'll be delaying your entry into psion uncarnate until 8th level, but I think you'll find it worth the wait. Being able to become incorporeal is incredibly useful to an assassin-type character and you'll be able to act in a roguelike capacity for your party both before and afterwards.

Better yet, go straight lurk (with True Thief) or psychic rogue. You'll find much love for the psychic rogue here.

Nice ideas but Im not looking to play a thief like character, I just have to cover the role of the trapfinder/disabler. besides that my goal for this character is to be a Psionic entity without body which is why the psion uncarnate calls to me
CrimsonDeath
10-25-07, 02:56 PM what book is the psionic artificer in?

Magic of Eberron, I believe.
SlanderPanic
10-25-07, 04:57 PM What level are you starting out as? If you're starting off at relatively high level, you could just play an unbodied.
Bullvinne
10-25-07, 05:00 PM we are starting out at level 1
Lycanthromancer
10-25-07, 05:18 PM Unbodied wouldn't be quite so good then (though it's still better than an uncarnate, all-in-all). Hmm. If you want to try something interesting, go egoist, play with The Big Guy is With Me build, use your psicrystal as a scout while following it as an uncarnate, all while grabbing Expanded Knowledge: astral construct for early-level trapfinding.

Much love there, for certain. You can work as scout, front-liner, skill-monkey, spellcaster, etc. :)

The best part is, if you do it correctly, it's useable at all levels.

If you don't know what TBGiWM is, you're basically using your psicrystal as your main character, with your psion (or wilder, or psychic warrior) as a buffing machine. You can use Improved Psicrystal to give your crystalline buddy lots of hit dice, a high BAB, and once you get the Channel Power ability (several levels earlier than you'd expect), you can buff from afar.

Once you start hitting uncarnate levels (or the DM allows you a savage progression as an unbodied, or you change race later on somehow), you can remain fairly safe while your psicrystal does the dirty work for you.
Novem
10-25-07, 10:27 PM ARRRGH! Double Post.
Novem
10-25-07, 10:28 PM (Could you post a link to the build?)
Psion Uncarnate's a fun concept- but- 16 manifester levels- the power- Genesis- calling to me- urggh, I hate making decisions.

As others have said, it's not the strongest, but then; even the Fighter can be optimized and made playable.
Lycanthromancer's idea sounds awesome.
DracoPhoenix
10-26-07, 03:55 AM @ novem : A powerstone of Genesis is ~8.3k, just over 2k each if your party members want to visit. Might be worth reforming for, but probably not as a known power - unless you're planning on a really huge demi plane (I tend to reserve their use as a base of ops / luxury resting resort, so only one or two should be needed)

@Lycanthromancer : I would have thought that as both have an effective +4LA, alterself variants (the 4 levels of telepath on the the unbodied is mute), that the Uncarnates assume armour & equipment would, in the long run, give it the advantage?

Yes the stat boosts are pretty tasty, but the only one that really matters is the manifester one. Which beyond 20, just bumps save DCs (ok "small point")

Also, you could pick say, a Dragon born for breath weapon, or Human for the bonus feat as your starting race and still get the whole "can't touch me" deal.

Hmm, as an Unbodied, would you have to take telepath? Or could you take a 2nd discipline and get two discipline lists (at least for stones)?
Lycanthromancer
10-26-07, 01:35 PM Novem: The Big Guy is with Me (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=463152) is actually a really simple build. You basically take a character with Psicrystal Affinity and a lot of buffing powers, lots of Improved Psicrystal feats, and then stand behind your crystal buddy while it does everything for you. If you like pet-buffing, it's an extraordinarily effective (and fun) build. I had one planned as having a human child (small-sized human) egoist with a psicrystal that was fanatically devoted to protecting him. He acted as the party's melee-type, but was geared to be FAR more effective than any fighter ever thought of being, and could buff, heal, and blast through his metamorphosis'd psicrystal, all while he hid in the back in a Heward's Handy Haversack belonging to the party's warforged kineticist (who was far more of a battlefield-control type than a blaster). With the right buffs, this particular build could take over virtually any role in the party with a quick contingencied psychic reformation. :)

Dracophoenix: With access to Complete Psionic and the Practiced Manifester feat, the two are pretty much even in terms of power; this only applies after you're a level 10 uncarnate, however. Before then, all of the unbodied ability scores are better (especially since with just a bit of finagling, an unbodied can get a full complement of equipment as well).

As far as the necessity of taking levels in telepath goes, I'd say it could go either way, but the manifesting ability would only stack if you actually took levels in telepath; otherwise, the manifester levels don't stack, and neither would powers known, etc (kind of like if you took 4 levels in telepath, then continued as a psychic warrior). This would be up to the DM, though.

[edit] Also, as a DM I'd just rule that you could choose your 'racial' discipline upon character creation, then those levels would only stack with psion levels of the same discipline.
DracoPhoenix
10-26-07, 06:58 PM Dracophoenix: With access to Complete Psionic and the Practiced Manifester feat, the two are pretty much even in terms of power; this only applies after you're a level 10 uncarnate, however. Before then, all of the unbodied ability scores are better (especially since with just a bit of finagling, an unbodied can get a full complement of equipment as well).

Ah, a difference of opinion on preferred strengths then - I find the ability to take my equipment with me (to incoporeal form) more useful than having (admittedly quite tasty) higher stats.

But that may be because I tend to get smacked quite heavily by one of our groups DM if I try anything above his percieved level of acceptable power

Sorry, but it's late at night and a sblock is a good place to vent :)

Well, I've managed to:

Get Incarnum nearly banned*1
The Psion Uncarnate PrC, unbodied as a PC banned ("Incorporeal PCs are nearly impossible to deal with")
Jumped on for multiclassing*2
Above DM bordering on Psionic is broken. (Energy missile amongst others)

*1: Incarnum 4 / Fighter 4 TWF w/ Gtr Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Imp TWF & Bonus Essentia - and a silvered +1/+1 quarterstaff (I have a sense of humor)). All because they laughed about my "glass cannon" Incarnate / Soul Knife / Illumine Soul did a load of damage (initially they accused me of munchining until above DM had to run it for a session), but only when it hit (which was rare) - so I decided to point out, they want accuracy, they got it.

Otherwise, I want my fluffy character.

Initially I got a L8 Inc4/Ftr4 up to +15/+11 x2 Using Core + Incarnum (1 Class + 2 feats). Had something like a max AC of 24, but switching Expanded meld capacity could boost that by +1-5 (Cost +1 atk). Damage was 7+1d6 x max(4).
(Melds: Flame Mantle, Crystal Helm (Bound), Lucky Gloves, Incarnate Avatar (LN)).

But that was me aiming for Accuracy over damage.
The "nerfed" version of that was +11/6 x2, 1d6+6 x max(4) dmg, AC 24-26
(Melds: Flame Mantle, Crystal Helm (Bound), Spellward Shirt, Incarnate Avatar (LN))

*2 : For silmultaneously weakening my character and to using it to munchkin. Apparently trying to make up for your characters shortcomings is a Bad Thing (TM).

:rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant:

Ok, that's me done...Sorry.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bullvinne 10-24-07, 03:54 PM	Hello all you wonderful people!!! I am doing a Psionic character in an upcomming campaign and this is what I have decided to do. But I need help fleshing out the details. The campaign has 5 PCs Pally-Tank Ranger-Physical DPS Wizard-Magic DPS Cleric-Healer and me with our current setup we have to trap finder so I have to take that role, but I dont like playing rogue-ish classes so this is what I was planning on doing Level 1- Factotem or other class with the trapfinding class feature at level 1 with Able learner because I need to fill the role of trapfinder/disabler but dont really want to play a rogue character. Levels 2-6- Psion, Disipline undecided (need help with synergy with Psion Uncarnate) and need help with feats. Levels 7-16- Psion Uncarnate, Need help with feats that have synergy with the Incorporial aspect of the Psion Uncarnate and the manifesting of powers Levels 17-20-Psion for better manifesting I also need advice on power selection Please do what you can to help me, Thanks
chicgeek 10-24-07, 05:46 PM	Psion Uncarnate is not that great a prestige class, offering manifesting for a meager (but eventually strong) class feature. But if you're dead set on it, more (er, or less) power to you. You should definitely get Psicrystal Affinity, so that when you are incarnate, you still have a way to manipulate (minutely) the physical world. I think really good synergy would come with a Shaper--creating matter from pure thought. You can even use Astral Constructs to trigger traps--and you should also get the Cleric to make wands of Find Traps.
DracoPhoenix 10-25-07, 06:04 AM	As far as uncarnate goes, I'm partial to Expanded knowledge(energy missiles) as my standard munitions. Up to 5 targets, nearly always some damage. Also, for those times when incorporeality gets to you, Skin of Proteus. Just don't use assume equipment on it, shape into a humanoid and job done. (would also allow you to constantly use TK Force while "corporeal" :)) Assume your Handy haversack - and keep everything in it. Technically, the items are stored in a pocket dimension, so you're not assuming those. Just the portal. That leaves you with 6-7 body slots at Uncarnate 10 - depending on if you want a weapon incorporeal too. Inertial AC is a skin tight force effect - so it'll change shape with you. no need for shaping AC. Dorje of Force Screen, for that lil AC boost. (+4 shield AC for 1 charge, better that spending a known power for a (hopefully) emergency use power) Pearls of Power, if you play they auto regen PP.
Bullvinne 10-25-07, 11:21 AM	ah nice Ideas mates, thanks and keep em coming!!!
DracoPhoenix 10-25-07, 11:29 AM	See if you can sweet talk your DM into allowing you to take a feat for trap finding (&search as a class skill). Failing that, a level of psionic artificer might be worth it.
Bullvinne 10-25-07, 12:53 PM	what book is the psionic artificer in?
SlanderPanic 10-25-07, 01:11 PM	I'd go for lurk (with the True Thief alternative class feature (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a).) You'll probably want to go straight lurk/psion uncarnate. You'll be delaying your entry into psion uncarnate until 8th level, but I think you'll find it worth the wait. Being able to become incorporeal is incredibly useful to an assassin-type character and you'll be able to act in a roguelike capacity for your party both before and afterwards. Better yet, go straight lurk (with True Thief) or psychic rogue (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b). You'll find much love for the psychic rogue here.
Bullvinne 10-25-07, 02:35 PM	Quote: I'd go for lurk (with the True Thief alternative class feature.) You'll probably want to go straight lurk/psion uncarnate. You'll be delaying your entry into psion uncarnate until 8th level, but I think you'll find it worth the wait. Being able to become incorporeal is incredibly useful to an assassin-type character and you'll be able to act in a roguelike capacity for your party both before and afterwards. Better yet, go straight lurk (with True Thief) or psychic rogue. You'll find much love for the psychic rogue here. Nice ideas but Im not looking to play a thief like character, I just have to cover the role of the trapfinder/disabler. besides that my goal for this character is to be a Psionic entity without body which is why the psion uncarnate calls to me
CrimsonDeath 10-25-07, 02:56 PM	what book is the psionic artificer in? Magic of Eberron, I believe.
SlanderPanic 10-25-07, 04:57 PM	What level are you starting out as? If you're starting off at relatively high level, you could just play an unbodied.
Bullvinne 10-25-07, 05:00 PM	we are starting out at level 1
Lycanthromancer 10-25-07, 05:18 PM	Unbodied wouldn't be quite so good then (though it's still better than an uncarnate, all-in-all). Hmm. If you want to try something interesting, go egoist, play with The Big Guy is With Me build, use your psicrystal as a scout while following it as an uncarnate, all while grabbing Expanded Knowledge: astral construct for early-level trapfinding. Much love there, for certain. You can work as scout, front-liner, skill-monkey, spellcaster, etc. :) The best part is, if you do it correctly, it's useable at all levels. If you don't know what TBGiWM is, you're basically using your psicrystal as your main character, with your psion (or wilder, or psychic warrior) as a buffing machine. You can use Improved Psicrystal to give your crystalline buddy lots of hit dice, a high BAB, and once you get the Channel Power ability (several levels earlier than you'd expect), you can buff from afar. Once you start hitting uncarnate levels (or the DM allows you a savage progression as an unbodied, or you change race later on somehow), you can remain fairly safe while your psicrystal does the dirty work for you.
Novem 10-25-07, 10:27 PM	ARRRGH! Double Post.
Novem 10-25-07, 10:28 PM	(Could you post a link to the build?) Psion Uncarnate's a fun concept- but- 16 manifester levels- the power- Genesis- calling to me- urggh, I hate making decisions. As others have said, it's not the strongest, but then; even the Fighter can be optimized and made playable. Lycanthromancer's idea sounds awesome.
DracoPhoenix 10-26-07, 03:55 AM	@ novem : A powerstone of Genesis is ~8.3k, just over 2k each if your party members want to visit. Might be worth reforming for, but probably not as a known power - unless you're planning on a really huge demi plane (I tend to reserve their use as a base of ops / luxury resting resort, so only one or two should be needed) @Lycanthromancer : I would have thought that as both have an effective +4LA, alterself variants (the 4 levels of telepath on the the unbodied is mute), that the Uncarnates assume armour & equipment would, in the long run, give it the advantage? Yes the stat boosts are pretty tasty, but the only one that really matters is the manifester one. Which beyond 20, just bumps save DCs (ok "small point") Also, you could pick say, a Dragon born for breath weapon, or Human for the bonus feat as your starting race and still get the whole "can't touch me" deal. Hmm, as an Unbodied, would you have to take telepath? Or could you take a 2nd discipline and get two discipline lists (at least for stones)?
Lycanthromancer 10-26-07, 01:35 PM	Novem: The Big Guy is with Me (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=463152) is actually a really simple build. You basically take a character with Psicrystal Affinity and a lot of buffing powers, lots of Improved Psicrystal feats, and then stand behind your crystal buddy while it does everything for you. If you like pet-buffing, it's an extraordinarily effective (and fun) build. I had one planned as having a human child (small-sized human) egoist with a psicrystal that was fanatically devoted to protecting him. He acted as the party's melee-type, but was geared to be FAR more effective than any fighter ever thought of being, and could buff, heal, and blast through his metamorphosis'd psicrystal, all while he hid in the back in a Heward's Handy Haversack belonging to the party's warforged kineticist (who was far more of a battlefield-control type than a blaster). With the right buffs, this particular build could take over virtually any role in the party with a quick contingencied psychic reformation. :) Dracophoenix: With access to Complete Psionic and the Practiced Manifester feat, the two are pretty much even in terms of power; this only applies after you're a level 10 uncarnate, however. Before then, all of the unbodied ability scores are better (especially since with just a bit of finagling, an unbodied can get a full complement of equipment as well). As far as the necessity of taking levels in telepath goes, I'd say it could go either way, but the manifesting ability would only stack if you actually took levels in telepath; otherwise, the manifester levels don't stack, and neither would powers known, etc (kind of like if you took 4 levels in telepath, then continued as a psychic warrior). This would be up to the DM, though. [edit] Also, as a DM I'd just rule that you could choose your 'racial' discipline upon character creation, then those levels would only stack with psion levels of the same discipline.
DracoPhoenix 10-26-07, 06:58 PM	Dracophoenix: With access to Complete Psionic and the Practiced Manifester feat, the two are pretty much even in terms of power; this only applies after you're a level 10 uncarnate, however. Before then, all of the unbodied ability scores are better (especially since with just a bit of finagling, an unbodied can get a full complement of equipment as well). Ah, a difference of opinion on preferred strengths then - I find the ability to take my equipment with me (to incoporeal form) more useful than having (admittedly quite tasty) higher stats. But that may be because I tend to get smacked quite heavily by one of our groups DM if I try anything above his percieved level of acceptable power Sorry, but it's late at night and a sblock is a good place to vent :) Well, I've managed to: Get Incarnum nearly banned1 The Psion Uncarnate PrC, unbodied as a PC banned ("Incorporeal PCs are nearly impossible to deal with") Jumped on for multiclassing2 Above DM bordering on Psionic is broken. (Energy missile amongst others) 1: Incarnum 4 / Fighter 4 TWF w/ Gtr Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Imp TWF & Bonus Essentia - and a silvered +1/+1 quarterstaff (I have a sense of humor)). All because they laughed about my "glass cannon" Incarnate / Soul Knife / Illumine Soul did a load of damage (initially they accused me of munchining until above DM had to run it for a session), but only when it hit (which was rare) - so I decided to point out, they want accuracy, they got it. Otherwise, I want my fluffy character. Initially I got a L8 Inc4/Ftr4 up to +15/+11 x2 Using Core + Incarnum (1 Class + 2 feats). Had something like a max AC of 24, but switching Expanded meld capacity could boost that by +1-5 (Cost +1 atk). Damage was 7+1d6 x max(4). (Melds: Flame Mantle, Crystal Helm (Bound), Lucky Gloves, Incarnate Avatar (LN)). But that was me aiming for Accuracy over damage. The "nerfed" version of that was +11/6 x2, 1d6+6 x max(4) dmg, AC 24-26 (Melds: Flame Mantle, Crystal Helm (Bound), Spellward Shirt, Incarnate Avatar (LN)) 2 : For silmultaneously weakening my character and to using it to munchkin. Apparently trying to make up for your characters shortcomings is a Bad Thing (TM). :rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant: Ok, that's me done...Sorry.