Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RavinRay 03-14-07, 12:58 AM	You just couldn't wait now, could you? :D Yes, it's that time of the month, Mark and Dark Psion have thrown us another treat, this time an expanded classes treatment for three of the psion disciplines: egoist, kineticist, and nomad (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070314a). Thankfully the switch to Daylight Saving Time in the USA three weeks early didn't through off the dynamic duo; the article was posted shortly after midnight EDT. What can I say about the article itself? :cloud9:
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-14-07, 01:05 AM	I can't help but suspect that the Nomad's dimensional pocket was stolen from my Hammerspace entry in the last UnCon... :D
Lokiyn 03-14-07, 01:08 AM	Its Good, Personally i would take kineticist for the Greater Animator ability, mainly for a pupetteer concept. The Nomad ability personal pocket i see having an issue with things like, say a portable hole. Although the removal of all but one nondimensional object has rendered that problem almost moot. #Edit, Actually now that i look at it, i only need to EK Control Object with my shaper and still get it.
runestar 03-14-07, 01:11 AM	Nice. Seems to lack the "oomph" factor that the soulknives and wilders received with their infusion of bonus feats options, but still a respectable variant.:)
Lokiyn 03-14-07, 01:19 AM	Hmm, i'm starting to wonder how much you could do with the personal space if you sneak a creature into it.
Dethro 03-14-07, 01:41 AM	I'm looking at that egoist ability and that looks like it turns you into a half-decent healer.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-14-07, 01:50 AM	Hmm, i'm starting to wonder how much you could do with the personal space if you sneak a creature into it. Gnome-in-a-can! Looks like a fun way to sneak a psicrystal or familiar past guards. Or getting a set of masterwork thieves tools to a friend who's going to be hanged within 24 hours. Not too sure about breathable air, though.
Slagger the Chuul 03-14-07, 02:00 AM	Looks like a fun way to sneak a psicrystal or familiar past guards. Or getting a set of masterwork thieves tools to a friend who's going to be hanged within 24 hours. Not too sure about breathable air, though. Following the usual methods, it should contain as much breathable air as could fit inside.
JulesCARV 03-14-07, 02:09 AM	I was a bit disappointed by the kineticist level 1 substitution. Seemed a bit of a poor substitute for a bonus feat. I liked the others though.
ChinchillaofDoom 03-14-07, 02:30 AM	Yeah, the kineticist gets..... a cantrip. Usable all day long, but still. :weep:
crizhII 03-14-07, 04:59 AM	Just imagine the sort of structural damage the Kineticist could do with that! It might take a while but you could 'burn' through just about any barrier eventually. I reckon you could burrow through 10' of solid stone an hour.
Fatalis_902 03-14-07, 06:18 AM	I love this one. I have been waiting for it for a month, and they got my two favorite disciplines (eoist and kineticist) in one swoop. Great job, guys!:D
Calain80 03-14-07, 07:57 AM	I also really like the new options. Mostly I like the Egoist one, as my main char is an Halfling Egoist / Sangehirn Healer in a world with almost no Halflings. ;) About the 1st Kineticist one: I like the secondary effects. Some good survival options included. ;) In Eberron it would be perfect for an innkeeper to have this abilities: chill drinks heat meals start / stop fire get someone's attention from far away distract someone numb a bruise All this all day long for free. :D
sooperspook 03-14-07, 08:29 AM	Human egoist with "changeling ability" = WIN! That shapechange ability is the most fun ability i can think of from a base race. Being able to use it with a human (my fav race) is a major bonus.
Bacris 03-14-07, 08:33 AM	The next egoist I play is going to use both those options. :) Good times.
cymbolik 03-14-07, 08:48 AM	*does dance of joy - this looks something like the chicken dance, but then no one said anything about it being the cool dance of joy* The flavour writeups of the Egoist are very interesting for character concepts. That was some good, imaginative writing there. I especially like the idea that the Egoist sees his body as a tool that he improves and augments with his force of will and that they are more likely to offer quarter to enemies due to their understanding of the body's ability to change. Says something about their belief in muscle memory, at the very least. That first level Kineticist substitution is pretty good. A pity it doesn't scale with level. ;) I know. Facetious isn't a good thing so early in the morning. It is pretty decent, though, and adds much more blasting utility to the kineticist, and I like that it's unlimited. It has the feel of some old school psionic flavour to it, with free manifestations of low-end powers. Control Object I'm undecided about. I don't know if I'd give up a feat for that, but that's just me not caring as much about whether I can move something big and heavy with the power or if I'll just end up reforming it out for the TK powers. The 1st nomad ability is not half bad. It certainly makes life easier for beginning characters, and saves them some money on buying bags of holding. Imaginative players will find awesome uses for it. I just wonder if you can store unwilling creatures in there. The image of a nomad calmly walking up to his enemy and appearing to split open and engulf him like an amoeba is tres cool, no? For a 5th level ability I'd prefer that to scale to freedom of movement at the upper levels, but that's just me thinking the nomad should have enough control over his own ability to move by level 20. All in all not bad. I can't wait to see what they do for the Seer!
SlanderPanic 03-14-07, 10:12 AM	Lovelovelove! Energy snap is an awesome ability. I can think of a hundred uses for it, right off the bat. I can think of plenty of fun to be had with the new egoist abilities, too. (Doctors without borders, anyone?)
Ichor Spellka 03-14-07, 10:26 AM	Wow. I absolutely love it. The egoist with the changeling abilities is very cool. Possibly a little overpowered, since it is the race's main ability, and essentially a druid's mid-level ability, but I love it anyways. Energy snap for the kineticist is quite fun. It's like a free prestidigitation of the elements. :) The nomad personal space ability is simply awesome. So useful for a thief. No one else can gain access to it, or even detect it. Also, eventually being able to store something bigger than you is quite an amusing idea. Definitely potential to take a straight nomad with that advancement.
HaikenEdge 03-14-07, 10:32 AM	The change shape and energy snap abilities are sweet.
angellis_ater 03-14-07, 10:34 AM	An Egoist Warshaper suddenly became a very frightening potential! I can imagine an Human Egoist with a few levels of Warshaper and Slayer would turn into a fearsome monster (literally). I'm sure someone else is better on making the build itself but I'll give it a whirl here. Egoist 6/Ranger 1/Slayer 10/Warshaper 3 ML15, BAB +16 Huge possibilities.
Qooroo 03-14-07, 10:42 AM	I likes it. It lacks a little bit of the 'wow' factor of the last update, but the classes in the last update needed the 'wow' factor. I'd compare these to the Wizard alternate features from the PHB2. They're not going to revolutionize the class, but they're cool, useful, and provide some flavour for the class that sets them a little more apart from the other types of Psion. Plus, the Egoist 5 sub level makes me excited for the potential of a strong psionic healer type, just as the Mantled Wilder variant did.
Sysane 03-14-07, 11:05 AM	Question about the Egoist healing option. Does it grant the life mantle's special ability as well as access to that mantle's power list or just the ability to select mantled powers?
SlanderPanic 03-14-07, 11:29 AM	You get the granted power, too. That's why they reprinted it.
elondir 03-14-07, 11:42 AM	I only wish now that I could somehow get Personal Space, Energy Snap, and Change Shape on the same character! :)
cymbolik 03-14-07, 12:14 PM	I just wonder if you can store unwilling creatures in there. The image of a nomad calmly walking up to his enemy and appearing to split open and engulf him like an amoeba is tres cool, no? I re-read it. I don't suppose creature = item, does it?
Xaxor 03-14-07, 12:14 PM	Very interesting. It's going to be so hard to wait for the April update. However, it is clear that the Personal Space ability does not allow you to place things like a Bag of Holding into it. You cannot store anything that has extradimensional properties, such as a bag of holding , within your personal space. Any attempt will fail.
Toxic_Shaman 03-14-07, 12:16 PM	I likes it. It lacks a little bit of the 'wow' factor of the last update, but the classes in the last update needed the 'wow' factor. My feelings exactly. The Soulknife and Wilder needed those options to help salvage marginal class design. The Psion is fine the way it is, but the new alternate abilities allow for some interesting character concepts. I really liked the article.
JulesCARV 03-14-07, 12:21 PM	It's not clear to me that an egoist with the change shape ability can do the warshaper trick (without metamorphosis, that is). Changelings certainly qualify because they have the (shapechanger) subtype, which nothing indicates that egoists gain. Whether "minor change shape" qualifies as "change shape" is less certain.
Zumarai 03-14-07, 12:23 PM	I re-read it. I don't suppose creature = item, does it? Maybe constructs…
Lokiyn 03-14-07, 12:58 PM	the trick is to turn the creature into an item, Then let the effect wear off. (ps i hate my self for this) Buu -> Candy Ray -> Poof -> Yum
ssvegeta555 03-14-07, 01:11 PM	Very cool varient class features! An Eqoist healer makes perfect sense, and I'm glad they get that option. It will make psionic only games a little easier to manage in teh fact that only one class was realy good at the healing (Ardant). My favorite by far is the extradimmensional pocket. But that's beause the ability is very similar to one I created for the Yamabushi base class ([shameless plug]link's in my sig for those who are interested[/shameless plug]). Instead of hiding things within another dimension, the Yamabushi can hide thigns within the earth. I'm always a big fan of Bag of Holding-like stuff for some reason.
ck2001wendt 03-14-07, 01:14 PM	I would say that like last month, it's two good additions and one "meh" (the "meh" is the Kineticist). Still, these two Mind's Eyes have been the best Psionic content to come out probably since the EPH.
RadicalTaoist 03-14-07, 01:59 PM	Like very much. Energy Snap is underwhelming, but hey, are we forgetting Energy Conversion? ;) I've noted before that a changeling with the City Slicker feat can be an excellent spy regardless of what class they take. Now, any egoist with City Slicker is an excellent spy.
DarkTouch 03-14-07, 02:24 PM	Here's a question: Early on, someone mentioned storing their psicrystal in their extradimensional space. Can you still access the benefits of your psicrystal when it is hidden like this or do you need to take it out to use it?
awaken_D_M_golem 03-14-07, 03:59 PM	Seems to lack the "oomph" factor that the soulknives and wilders received well ... Soulknives + Wilders needed an upgrade. "Wizards" don't need much help. Here's what I think : Change Shape - angellis_ater , on post #20 , is spot on. Rogue / sneeky builds should be do-able. Very abuseable :D True Healer - might need a specific concept build to use well. Is this your cup of tea? +1 to 3rd level Body Purification de-necessitates ExKn-ing it as a 2nd level power. :) Energy Snap - Am I the only one that sees this as much worse than Hammer ? hmm ... a level zero power with a lite metapsionic built in ... :( , if you've GOT to have it , later retrain it. Greater Animator - if you gave this as an augment , i.e. not a feat , only available to the class , kinda like some of the augments within specific Mantles , it'd be OK ... :( / :) Personal Space - maybe , and then PHB2 retrain it into a meta- something , get a magic item ... iffy Temporal Grace - a Freedom of Movement Reroll-y / evasion-y / mettle-y thing , and good across the board ? Prolly needs a specific build , to get you in position to need to use it , so you can deliver the goods. Yummy ! Over-all , good stuff .
kymaera 03-14-07, 06:43 PM	Here's a question: Early on, someone mentioned storing their psicrystal in their extradimensional space. Can you still access the benefits of your psicrystal when it is hidden like this or do you need to take it out to use it? I would say no. The psicrystal is in another dimension...not within 1 mile of you.
cymbolik 03-15-07, 07:20 AM	(ps i hate my self for this) Buu -> Candy Ray -> Poof -> Yum On some level I hate you too, but it did make me smile, regardless.
Ishindri 03-16-07, 08:35 PM	I am quite pleased with this article. I especially like the Hammerspace ability the Nomad gets, but with the Talent system I use, the Kineticist's Energy Snap variant becomes rather useless. However, everything else is up to snuff. An excellent article.
awaken_D_M_golem 03-18-07, 04:21 PM	I just re-read True Healer , It's a combo of 3 feats , for the price of 1. And it stacks , but for a price. Any reason why I noticed this on a Sunday ?
Lokiyn 03-18-07, 05:26 PM	Actually that reminds me i had two questions about the nomad ability What is the interaction of the nomad with say, a portable hole (can he store it, get in it, etc without an explosion) On Character Death what happens to the extradimensional space, does the material appear on or near the corpse (as in dimensional pocket) or does the material wind up on the astral (as in a breached bag of holding)
DarkTouch 03-18-07, 06:04 PM	Actually that reminds me i had two questions about the nomad ability What is the interaction of the nomad with say, a portable hole (can he store it, get in it, etc without an explosion) On Character Death what happens to the extradimensional space, does the material appear on or near the corpse (as in dimensional pocket) or does the material wind up on the astral (as in a breached bag of holding) 1. Based on my reading of the ability, I'd say that it just fails. You expend your focus and nothing happens. 2. Probably up the the DM, but for fun I'd turn it into a Demi-plane seed.. especially if there was some psionic or magic items in there (or even better, a psicrystal). The area just continues to exist and over time starts to grow and become its own demi-plane of existence. Of course I just happen to think that would be an awesome something o throw at some PCs and have no reason otherwise.
Lokiyn 03-18-07, 06:23 PM	let me clarify, Portable hole is the last remains of an older classification of objects called non dimentional storage spaces. the gist was that non dimentional objects shunted thier contents into the astral while extra dimensionals shunt to the etheral, back when these were separate it was a big deal because in certain locations you would lose acess to one type (due to etheral not being avalible) or the other. Portable holes are nondimensional, as such they have those interaction rules with extradimensional spaces (popping, rifts, etc) My curiosity was Portable hole being placed in a pocket does "x?" and or Nomad placed in portable hole does *blank*.
DarkTouch 03-18-07, 06:32 PM	I understand the reason for your question. I just don't think that it is relavent to the current rules. Especially this quote: You cannot store anything that has extradimensional properties, such as a bag of holding , within your personal space. Any attempt will fail.
Ryuu_Tenshi 03-18-07, 09:26 PM	I also really like the new options. Mostly I like the Egoist one, as my main char is an Halfling Egoist / Sangehirn Healer in a world with almost no Halflings. ;) About the 1st Kineticist one: I like the secondary effects. Some good survival options included. ;) In Eberron it would be perfect for an innkeeper to have this abilities: chill drinks heat meals start / stop fire get someone's attention from far away distract someone numb a bruise All this all day long for free. :D It's like psions -finally- have Prestidigitation/Ghost Sound. Though not quite as versatile and more damaging all around... still. Also? HAMMERSPACE. I've GOT to tell a friend of mine about this - he loves creating anime/game characters in DnD, and I just introduced him to the joys of psionics. So... yes. ^____^
cymbolik 03-19-07, 06:51 AM	I understand the reason for your question. I just don't think that it is relavent to the current rules. Especially this quote: No, you don't understand what he's asking. He doesn't want to know what happens when you put the portable hole inside the nomad, since this is made quite clear by the text you've quoted. He wants to know what happens when you put the nomad inside the portable hole. He's probably asking because of this, emphasis mine: Bag of Holding: This appears to be a common cloth sack about 2 feet by 4 feet in size. The bag of holding opens into a nondimensional space: Its inside is larger than its outside dimensions...If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest.
DarkTouch 03-19-07, 09:33 AM	Ohhhhhhhhh.... Obviously he ceases to exist.
cymbolik 03-19-07, 10:16 AM	Obviously. :rolleyes: I actually remembered this article: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20051101a It would appear, Lokyin, that with this class feature no nomad could ever do what any other creature could do, i.e. safely hide in a portable hole. It could make for some spectacular, albeit expensive, execution scenes, though. "Open The Pit. Drop him!" BLAM!
PrinceCurtis 03-19-07, 03:57 PM	Great, my archer kinetist can be a barmaid on down time......
Lokiyn 03-19-07, 04:00 PM	Actually i was puttering about and i realized that if you supress the portable hole first (making it non magical) you could store it inside the psion, giving you 1d4 rounds before the psion implodes sucking everyone within 10 feet to the astral.
PrinceCurtis 03-19-07, 04:08 PM	Nice! *Laughs evilly*
loki_de_carabas 03-19-07, 04:19 PM	Note: if you are spelljamming through the Phlogiston you will not be able to access the space created by the Nomad ability until you enter a Crystal Sphere. NOw I wil return to doing the extremely embarrassing but unavoidable "New Mind's Eye Dance of Unbridled Joy"
cymbolik 03-20-07, 12:36 PM	Actually i was puttering about and i realized that if you supress the portable hole first (making it non magical) you could store it inside the psion, giving you 1d4 rounds before the psion implodes sucking everyone within 10 feet to the astral. Beware the nomad's retributive strike!
PEBKAC 03-20-07, 05:02 PM	Here is the text of the ability: Personal Space You have an extradimensional storage pocket available. Level: 1st. Replaces: The bonus feat at 1st level. Benefit: You gain an extradimensional storage space within your body. You can access it as a psi-like ability by expending your psionic focus. You may send an item to it or retrieve an item as you wish. The size of the storage space grows with your own power. At 1st level it is equivalent to a belt pouch, at 5th level it equals a sack, at 10th level it is the size of a backpack, at 15th level it is the size of a chest, and at 20th level it is the size of a Medium creature. You cannot store anything that has extradimensional properties, such as a bag of holding , within your personal space. Any attempt will fail. Firstly, nowhere does it state that the ability is a bag of holding, thus you can freely intereact with a portable hole Secondly what exactly is the size of a Medium creature? Afterall, a half-orc is bigger than a dwarf, but both are Medium creatures.
DarkTouch 03-20-07, 05:29 PM	8'x5'x5'.. and 500 lbs max.
cymbolik 03-20-07, 06:09 PM	Firstly, nowhere does it state that the ability is a bag of holding, thus you can freely intereact with a portable hole True enough, but it does state that it's an extradimensional space. If you had followed the link I'd quoted earlier you'll find that extradimensional spaces, brought into a nondimesional space, result in a rift being torn to the Astral, destroying both spaces in the process. Conversely, bringing a nondimensional space into an extradimensional space causes a gate to to open to the Astral, drawing everything within 10ft. to the Astral and destroying both spaces in the process.
Doomed_Penguin 03-20-07, 06:19 PM	I dunno, half-giants are 9' tall and still medium...
Richmud 03-20-07, 07:55 PM	I dunno, half-giants are 9' tall and still medium... Half-giants are a special case, powerful build makes them medium and a half
DarkTouch 03-20-07, 08:29 PM	They have to crouch a bit to fit is all.
PEBKAC 03-21-07, 11:14 AM	True enough, but it does state that it's an extradimensional space. If you had followed the link I'd quoted earlier you'll find that extradimensional spaces, brought into a nondimesional space, result in a rift being torn to the Astral, destroying both spaces in the process. Conversely, bringing a nondimensional space into an extradimensional space causes a gate to to open to the Astral, drawing everything within 10ft. to the Astral and destroying both spaces in the process. I have been thinking about this and the problem is that neither nondimensional nor extradimensional space is adequately defined. The bag of holding is called a nondimensional space, while a portable hole is called first an extradimensional and then a nondimensional space. If you follow the logic that any nondimensional space = bag of holding and any extradimensional space = portable hole, then you can still freely interact with any other extradimensional area as the Nomad ability creates an extradimensional space. And according to the article that you linked, you can place a portable hole in a portable hole. It even goes on to state that: Other interactions between extradimensional spaces are possible. For example, the rope trick and Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion both create extradimensional spaces. The rope trick spell description makes a passing mention of "hazards" associated with placing one extradimensional space inside another, but gives no details. (See the rope trick excerpt.) I recommend that you ignore this reference. Your campaign won't be improved if rope trick effects implode when someone carries a bag of holding or portable hole inside. A Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion should likewise prove benign if someone carries a bag of holding or portable hole inside. Thus the only thing you must truly fear is being put in a bag of holding or equivalent nondimensional space. In that case you would be sucked into the Astral Plane and both your Personal Space and the bag of holding are destroyed.
cymbolik 03-21-07, 12:55 PM	I thought I was going to be clever and point out that the item descriptions themselves define them, but they seem to contradict themselves, as you've pointed out, in both this article and the item description of the portable hole. So, by that reasoning it's safe to assume that the only time there is a risk of an Astral event is in the specific instance of bag of holding meets portable hole. WotC in ambiguity Shocka!
InkBlot 03-21-07, 01:52 PM	I'm building a healing Egoist for an upcomming game that's starting at 5th level. I looked at the variant Egoist, and it just didn't seem all that useful. There were only two powers that I wanted that weren't already on the psion or egoist lists - touch of life and mend wounds. I'd rather use Expanded Knowledge to get Touch of life, so that I could use one of my two 3rd level powers for something more generaly useful. And by the time I could pick up mend wounds I'd be almost halfway through the Sangehirn PrC. I choose to use my 5th level bonus feat for Craft Dorje, so I could save power points on commonly-used powers that don't need to be augmented (like share pain). My 3rd level feat went to Expanded Knowledge (touch of life).
Calain80 03-25-07, 03:29 PM	I'm building a healing Egoist for an upcomming game that's starting at 5th level. I looked at the variant Egoist, and it just didn't seem all that useful. Don't underestimate the power Stygian Ward. It is also really useful. Especially if you are the only healing person of the party.
Wotc_Mark 03-26-07, 01:52 PM	Seer, Shaper, Telepath coming 4/11/2007 MJ
Ryuu_Tenshi 03-27-07, 12:35 AM	Seer, Shaper, Telepath coming 4/11/2007 MJ SHAPERRRRRRRRRR!!! :DDDDDDDDDDDD
TheDarkLord 03-27-07, 12:45 AM	Seer, Shaper, Telepath coming 4/11/2007 MJ Can't wait, I hope the Seer doesn't suck. Lets see if we can make this guy truly Omniscient. :emp: