Marksman Questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Marksman Questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Anyr
10-03-07, 10:38 AM Greetings.

This thread was originally posted in the Classes and Prestige Classes forum, but I thought it might get a better response here.

I've been toying with the idea of creating a sniping archer for a campaign, so the Marksman from Untapped Potential seemed a strong choice. Most of the basics can be found by browsing, but a few remain:

1) What actual advantage is there to choosing the Crossbow style over the Bow style, even when making a single shot sniper? The first ability seems useless to anyone who has (Greater) Psionic Shot, which eclipses it and can't be easily combined. The second gives you an extra arrow's worth of damage in very specific circumstances (when the first arrow drops a target and there's someone standing behind them), but only that part of it which would be multiplied on a critical hit (whereas the bow style simply gives you an extra arrow, whether using Manyshot or Rapid Shot). The third and fourth are both quite nice, but only gained at level 15 and 19. Add to that the disadvantages of using a crossbow in the first place and there seems little point...

2) Is there an easier way to expend two psionic focuses (focii?) at once than using a psicrystal or an epic feat? Barring that, is there a way to refocus as a swift action?

3) Is there a signature technique out there that deals with firearms?

Thanks in advance.
Think0028
10-03-07, 10:53 AM Greetings.

This thread was originally posted in the Classes and Prestige Classes forum, but I thought it might get a better response here.

I've been toying with the idea of creating a sniping archer for a campaign, so the Marksman from Untapped Potential seemed a strong choice. Most of the basics can be found by browsing, but a few remain:

1) What actual advantage is there to choosing the Crossbow style over the Bow style, even when making a single shot sniper? The first ability seems useless to anyone who has (Greater) Psionic Shot, which eclipses it and can't be easily combined. The second gives you an extra arrow's worth of damage in very specific circumstances (when the first arrow drops a target and there's someone standing behind them), but only that part of it which would be multiplied on a critical hit (whereas the bow style simply gives you an extra arrow, whether using Manyshot or Rapid Shot). The third and fourth are both quite nice, but only gained at level 15 and 19. Add to that the disadvantages of using a crossbow in the first place and there seems little point...
Sadly, I'm not qualified to answer this...

2) Is there an easier way to expend two psionic focuses (focii?) at once than using a psicrystal or an epic feat? Barring that, is there a way to refocus as a swift action?
... but I can answer this. It's a feat in Untapped Potential, don't recall what it's called. Subconcious Focus or something similar.

3) Is there a signature technique out there that deals with firearms?
As far as I know, no.
Deekin
10-03-07, 11:09 AM 1) What actual advantage is there to choosing the Crossbow style over the Bow style, even when making a single shot sniper? The first ability seems useless to anyone who has (Greater) Psionic Shot, which eclipses it and can't be easily combined. The second gives you an extra arrow's worth of damage in very specific circumstances (when the first arrow drops a target and there's someone standing behind them), but only that part of it which would be multiplied on a critical hit (whereas the bow style simply gives you an extra arrow, whether using Manyshot or Rapid Shot). The third and fourth are both quite nice, but only gained at level 15 and 19. Add to that the disadvantages of using a crossbow in the first place and there seems little point...

The fact that it increases the BASE DAMAGE of the weapon, not just bonus dice, for the first. But yeah, the Second one sucks.

the other questions were answered
Tempest Stormwind
10-03-07, 11:14 AM I'm the marksman's writer (I came up with the concept, wrote the skeleton, most of the basic abilities, and edited the signature styles; the other authors contributed with the styles, the formatting, and endless useful feedback).

The crossbow style was finished first. It's very good if you've got the distance and the time to fire -- in other words, the same situations where a crossbow would already be useful, if D&D didn't shaft you for trying to use one. I'm AFB, so I can't recall names, but the first ability in that style is designed to synergize with your other tier abilities but start out weaker than GPS if you already have GPS (note that unlike all other +dice abilities, this one multiplies in the case of a crit, and your later tier options increase your chances of landing a hit). I like that style the most, but then again, I wrote more of it than I did the other two.

The marksman's free Psionic Meditation helps a lot in using this, but if you want to use it and GPS together, you might consider the Subconscious Containment feat. It has the same feat investment cost as Psicrystal Containment, but Psionic Body (the prereq) is useful to the marksman (with her d6 HD, poor armor, and no AC boosting powers). Alternatively, there's also the Instant Clarity feat, which lets you refocus instantly after using a strike. Unless you're using Falling Star (a style I started developing after I saw an idea from Edea, but later others, notably Magocrat, finished... available here (http://rapidshare.com/files/53609261/Falling_Star.doc.html) with maneuver cards here (http://rapidshare.com/files/53609634/tob10c_fs.pdf.html)), you will have a hard time finding maneuvers worth taking for that, though (since Instant Clarity specifies a strike).

As for firearms, I'm getting a feel for how they work thanks to Saga, but without standardized D&D rules for them (barring those damn renaissance guns...), the best I can do is fudge things. I had every intention of doing a gun style, but lack the resources to ensure it'll be balanced.

Interestingly, I've been considering retouching the marksman to use Falling Star. The ToB wasn't out when UTP was being designed, but Falling Star is a natural choice for the marksman, especially the thrown-weapon stylist. If I were DMing, I'd certainly consider Martial Study (Falling Star) to be related to ranged combat for her bonus feats, and I may even relax the limit on 3 of those feats...
Anyr
10-03-07, 12:38 PM I'm the marksman's writer (I came up with the concept, wrote the skeleton, most of the basic abilities, and edited the signature styles; the other authors contributed with the styles, the formatting, and endless useful feedback).

The crossbow style was finished first. It's very good if you've got the distance and the time to fire -- in other words, the same situations where a crossbow would already be useful, if D&D didn't shaft you for trying to use one. I'm AFB, so I can't recall names, but the first ability in that style is designed to synergize with your other tier abilities but start out weaker than GPS if you already have GPS (note that unlike all other +dice abilities, this one multiplies in the case of a crit, and your later tier options increase your chances of landing a hit). I like that style the most, but then again, I wrote more of it than I did the other two.

The marksman's free Psionic Meditation helps a lot in using this, but if you want to use it and GPS together, you might consider the Subconscious Containment feat. It has the same feat investment cost as Psicrystal Containment, but Psionic Body (the prereq) is useful to the marksman (with her d6 HD, poor armor, and no AC boosting powers). Alternatively, there's also the Instant Clarity feat, which lets you refocus instantly after using a strike. Unless you're using Falling Star (a style I started developing after I saw an idea from Edea, but later others, notably Magocrat, finished... available here (http://rapidshare.com/files/53609261/Falling_Star.doc.html) with maneuver cards here (http://rapidshare.com/files/53609634/tob10c_fs.pdf.html)), you will have a hard time finding maneuvers worth taking for that, though (since Instant Clarity specifies a strike).

As for firearms, I'm getting a feel for how they work thanks to Saga, but without standardized D&D rules for them (barring those damn renaissance guns...), the best I can do is fudge things. I had every intention of doing a gun style, but lack the resources to ensure it'll be balanced.

Interestingly, I've been considering retouching the marksman to use Falling Star. The ToB wasn't out when UTP was being designed, but Falling Star is a natural choice for the marksman, especially the thrown-weapon stylist. If I were DMing, I'd certainly consider Martial Study (Falling Star) to be related to ranged combat for her bonus feats, and I may even relax the limit on 3 of those feats...

Thanks, that helps quite a bit, particularly regarding the bonus damage being multiplied. I can't seem to find Subconscious Containment in my copy of Untapped Potential, though. Are there different versions of the book or am I simply missing it?
Tempest Stormwind
10-03-07, 01:16 PM Thanks, that helps quite a bit, particularly regarding the bonus damage being multiplied. I can't seem to find Subconscious Containment in my copy of Untapped Potential, though. Are there different versions of the book or am I simply missing it?

There are two versions of the book: The original PDF, which existed solely to fund the rest of the project, and the print version/PDF, which has expanded artwork and bonus material (all errata up to that point, two extra prestige classes (Psychic Acrobat and Seidmadr), an expanded appendix with the BlaineTog Soulknife and Wilder (complete with notes on what else changes with these classes), organizational prestige class substitution levels (i.e. if you're in the Cosmic Echoes as presented, you can sub out some levels of Thrallherd to turn it into a bit more of a society-mind-themed class) and a pile of new feats, most from BlaineTog with an editing pass from me).

Subconscious Containment is one of those feats. Basically it requires Psionic Body and lets you focus your subconscious as if it were a psicrystal. If you have it or Psicrystal Containment, though, you can't take the other.
Bacris
10-03-07, 01:48 PM Anyr - feel free to send me a PM if you need to get the updated copy. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Anyr 10-03-07, 10:38 AM	Greetings. This thread was originally posted in the Classes and Prestige Classes forum, but I thought it might get a better response here. I've been toying with the idea of creating a sniping archer for a campaign, so the Marksman from Untapped Potential seemed a strong choice. Most of the basics can be found by browsing, but a few remain: 1) What actual advantage is there to choosing the Crossbow style over the Bow style, even when making a single shot sniper? The first ability seems useless to anyone who has (Greater) Psionic Shot, which eclipses it and can't be easily combined. The second gives you an extra arrow's worth of damage in very specific circumstances (when the first arrow drops a target and there's someone standing behind them), but only that part of it which would be multiplied on a critical hit (whereas the bow style simply gives you an extra arrow, whether using Manyshot or Rapid Shot). The third and fourth are both quite nice, but only gained at level 15 and 19. Add to that the disadvantages of using a crossbow in the first place and there seems little point... 2) Is there an easier way to expend two psionic focuses (focii?) at once than using a psicrystal or an epic feat? Barring that, is there a way to refocus as a swift action? 3) Is there a signature technique out there that deals with firearms? Thanks in advance.
Think0028 10-03-07, 10:53 AM	Greetings. This thread was originally posted in the Classes and Prestige Classes forum, but I thought it might get a better response here. I've been toying with the idea of creating a sniping archer for a campaign, so the Marksman from Untapped Potential seemed a strong choice. Most of the basics can be found by browsing, but a few remain: 1) What actual advantage is there to choosing the Crossbow style over the Bow style, even when making a single shot sniper? The first ability seems useless to anyone who has (Greater) Psionic Shot, which eclipses it and can't be easily combined. The second gives you an extra arrow's worth of damage in very specific circumstances (when the first arrow drops a target and there's someone standing behind them), but only that part of it which would be multiplied on a critical hit (whereas the bow style simply gives you an extra arrow, whether using Manyshot or Rapid Shot). The third and fourth are both quite nice, but only gained at level 15 and 19. Add to that the disadvantages of using a crossbow in the first place and there seems little point... Sadly, I'm not qualified to answer this... 2) Is there an easier way to expend two psionic focuses (focii?) at once than using a psicrystal or an epic feat? Barring that, is there a way to refocus as a swift action? ... but I can answer this. It's a feat in Untapped Potential, don't recall what it's called. Subconcious Focus or something similar. 3) Is there a signature technique out there that deals with firearms? As far as I know, no.
Deekin 10-03-07, 11:09 AM	1) What actual advantage is there to choosing the Crossbow style over the Bow style, even when making a single shot sniper? The first ability seems useless to anyone who has (Greater) Psionic Shot, which eclipses it and can't be easily combined. The second gives you an extra arrow's worth of damage in very specific circumstances (when the first arrow drops a target and there's someone standing behind them), but only that part of it which would be multiplied on a critical hit (whereas the bow style simply gives you an extra arrow, whether using Manyshot or Rapid Shot). The third and fourth are both quite nice, but only gained at level 15 and 19. Add to that the disadvantages of using a crossbow in the first place and there seems little point... The fact that it increases the BASE DAMAGE of the weapon, not just bonus dice, for the first. But yeah, the Second one sucks. the other questions were answered
Tempest Stormwind 10-03-07, 11:14 AM	I'm the marksman's writer (I came up with the concept, wrote the skeleton, most of the basic abilities, and edited the signature styles; the other authors contributed with the styles, the formatting, and endless useful feedback). The crossbow style was finished first. It's very good if you've got the distance and the time to fire -- in other words, the same situations where a crossbow would already be useful, if D&D didn't shaft you for trying to use one. I'm AFB, so I can't recall names, but the first ability in that style is designed to synergize with your other tier abilities but start out weaker than GPS if you already have GPS (note that unlike all other +dice abilities, this one multiplies in the case of a crit, and your later tier options increase your chances of landing a hit). I like that style the most, but then again, I wrote more of it than I did the other two. The marksman's free Psionic Meditation helps a lot in using this, but if you want to use it and GPS together, you might consider the Subconscious Containment feat. It has the same feat investment cost as Psicrystal Containment, but Psionic Body (the prereq) is useful to the marksman (with her d6 HD, poor armor, and no AC boosting powers). Alternatively, there's also the Instant Clarity feat, which lets you refocus instantly after using a strike. Unless you're using Falling Star (a style I started developing after I saw an idea from Edea, but later others, notably Magocrat, finished... available here (http://rapidshare.com/files/53609261/Falling_Star.doc.html) with maneuver cards here (http://rapidshare.com/files/53609634/tob10c_fs.pdf.html)), you will have a hard time finding maneuvers worth taking for that, though (since Instant Clarity specifies a strike). As for firearms, I'm getting a feel for how they work thanks to Saga, but without standardized D&D rules for them (barring those damn renaissance guns...), the best I can do is fudge things. I had every intention of doing a gun style, but lack the resources to ensure it'll be balanced. Interestingly, I've been considering retouching the marksman to use Falling Star. The ToB wasn't out when UTP was being designed, but Falling Star is a natural choice for the marksman, especially the thrown-weapon stylist. If I were DMing, I'd certainly consider Martial Study (Falling Star) to be related to ranged combat for her bonus feats, and I may even relax the limit on 3 of those feats...
Anyr 10-03-07, 12:38 PM	I'm the marksman's writer (I came up with the concept, wrote the skeleton, most of the basic abilities, and edited the signature styles; the other authors contributed with the styles, the formatting, and endless useful feedback). The crossbow style was finished first. It's very good if you've got the distance and the time to fire -- in other words, the same situations where a crossbow would already be useful, if D&D didn't shaft you for trying to use one. I'm AFB, so I can't recall names, but the first ability in that style is designed to synergize with your other tier abilities but start out weaker than GPS if you already have GPS (note that unlike all other +dice abilities, this one multiplies in the case of a crit, and your later tier options increase your chances of landing a hit). I like that style the most, but then again, I wrote more of it than I did the other two. The marksman's free Psionic Meditation helps a lot in using this, but if you want to use it and GPS together, you might consider the Subconscious Containment feat. It has the same feat investment cost as Psicrystal Containment, but Psionic Body (the prereq) is useful to the marksman (with her d6 HD, poor armor, and no AC boosting powers). Alternatively, there's also the Instant Clarity feat, which lets you refocus instantly after using a strike. Unless you're using Falling Star (a style I started developing after I saw an idea from Edea, but later others, notably Magocrat, finished... available here (http://rapidshare.com/files/53609261/Falling_Star.doc.html) with maneuver cards here (http://rapidshare.com/files/53609634/tob10c_fs.pdf.html)), you will have a hard time finding maneuvers worth taking for that, though (since Instant Clarity specifies a strike). As for firearms, I'm getting a feel for how they work thanks to Saga, but without standardized D&D rules for them (barring those damn renaissance guns...), the best I can do is fudge things. I had every intention of doing a gun style, but lack the resources to ensure it'll be balanced. Interestingly, I've been considering retouching the marksman to use Falling Star. The ToB wasn't out when UTP was being designed, but Falling Star is a natural choice for the marksman, especially the thrown-weapon stylist. If I were DMing, I'd certainly consider Martial Study (Falling Star) to be related to ranged combat for her bonus feats, and I may even relax the limit on 3 of those feats... Thanks, that helps quite a bit, particularly regarding the bonus damage being multiplied. I can't seem to find Subconscious Containment in my copy of Untapped Potential, though. Are there different versions of the book or am I simply missing it?
Tempest Stormwind 10-03-07, 01:16 PM	Thanks, that helps quite a bit, particularly regarding the bonus damage being multiplied. I can't seem to find Subconscious Containment in my copy of Untapped Potential, though. Are there different versions of the book or am I simply missing it? There are two versions of the book: The original PDF, which existed solely to fund the rest of the project, and the print version/PDF, which has expanded artwork and bonus material (all errata up to that point, two extra prestige classes (Psychic Acrobat and Seidmadr), an expanded appendix with the BlaineTog Soulknife and Wilder (complete with notes on what else changes with these classes), organizational prestige class substitution levels (i.e. if you're in the Cosmic Echoes as presented, you can sub out some levels of Thrallherd to turn it into a bit more of a society-mind-themed class) and a pile of new feats, most from BlaineTog with an editing pass from me). Subconscious Containment is one of those feats. Basically it requires Psionic Body and lets you focus your subconscious as if it were a psicrystal. If you have it or Psicrystal Containment, though, you can't take the other.
Bacris 10-03-07, 01:48 PM	Anyr - feel free to send me a PM if you need to get the updated copy. :)