Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ishal 05-12-07, 03:12 PM	What offensive powers do a lot for relatively few power points? So what I'm talking about here are powers that don't need to be augmented or have a long duration or need you to maintain concentration etc.
InkBlot 05-12-07, 04:02 PM	When you rule out augments, long durations, and concentration you're ruling out most of the power point conservation tricks available. Telekinetic thrust, 3rd level (5pp), instantaneous duration, without augmenting it throws up to 250 pounds of enemies (no more than 15) 10 feet per level. Throw them straight up, and this translates to 1d6 damage per level. Not per powerpoint like other powers, but actualy per level like a freely scalling spell. The damage cap is 20d6, but you get an extra 1d6 if you can slam them into the cieling before dropping them. Energy conversion, 7th level (13 pp), 10 minutes/level. Just light yourself on fire, guzzle some flasks of acid, etc., to charge up. Then just blast away. Each ray deals 3 x ML damage, which is roughly the same as 1d6 per ML. Share the power with your psicrystal, and it can use it's actions to fire rays each round as well. This power is great in combination with energy wall. Energy wall, 3rd level (5pp), 1 round/level, no augment. It could deal infinite damage if you were concentrating on it (and didn't need to eat or sleep), but since you're not concentrating it only does "pretty good" damage. 4d6 + ML for anybody walking through it, 2d6 for anybody too close, 1d6 for anybody not particularly close. It's not a lot, but it adds up over the rounds. Also, a sonic wall will disintegrate any ranged weapons that shot through it. Divert teleport, 7th level (13pp). When you learn this power, travel to a volcano and study it carefully. Whenevery anybody within a couple hundred feet of you attempts to teleport in or out, divert them into the volcano. Lava deals 20d6 damage per round. Alternatively, teleport them at least 200 feet into the air for 20d6 falling damage.
calronmoonflower 05-12-07, 05:00 PM	Matter Agitation
Ishal 05-12-07, 05:16 PM	@inkblot I did not rule out long durations and concentration...
glacialcat 05-12-07, 05:26 PM	What offensive powers do a lot for relatively few power points? So what I'm talking about here are powers that don't need to be augmented or have a long duration or need you to maintain concentration etc. Maybe you meant something different, like powers that don't need to be augmented but the power may have long duration or require you to maintain concentration, but from how you wrote it you did rule them out.
Ishal 05-12-07, 06:40 PM	Maybe you meant something different, like powers that don't need to be augmented but the power may have long duration or require you to maintain concentration, but from how you wrote it you did rule them out. Let me try switching the order and see if that helps you understand So what I'm talking about here are powers that have a long duration or need you to maintain concentration or don't need to be augmented etc
leomunds_assistant 05-12-07, 08:24 PM	In my last campaign, psychic crush powned all. If they fail a will, the go straight to -1 hp, and it is a level 5 power. I would recomend using it on people with a low will, like barb., fighters, etc because they get a +4 bonus to the save. My brother was playing a barbarian, and was bragging he could kill any of us. We did a quick duel, and he hit me for like 40 damage, but I spent 10 pp and took none (enhanced elan resilience), then through a psychic crush. Lol he had to roll a 14 or higher and he failed, and in the same round I quickened crystal shard for 2d6 and one. Just remember, they get a +4 to their save so don't use it on any casters, etc. It will fail. I believe this cost 9 pp.
Tempest Stormwind 05-12-07, 08:38 PM	In my last campaign, psychic crush powned all. If they fail a will, the go straight to -1 hp, and it is a level 5 power. I would recomend using it on people with a low will, like barb., fighters, etc because they get a +4 bonus to the save. My brother was playing a barbarian, and was bragging he could kill any of us. We did a quick duel, and he hit me for like 40 damage, but I spent 10 pp and took none (enhanced elan resilience), then through a psychic crush. Lol he had to roll a 14 or higher and he failed, and in the same round I quickened crystal shard for 2d6 and one. Just remember, they get a +4 to their save so don't use it on any casters, etc. It will fail. I believe this cost 9 pp.Dude, psychic crush sucks. It's a save-or-die that's close-range, mind-affecting, that doesn't actually kill the target and they get a big +4 bonus on the saving throw. On top of this, it doesn't augment for DC at all, but rather to up it's trivial on-save damage. Compare to Slay Living (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/slayLiving.htm). Note that clerics have a higher attack bonus and better AC in general so they can actually get dirty in melee to deliver it.
Nifft 05-12-07, 08:38 PM	My favorite bang-for-buck powers are: Entangling Ectoplasm -- useful even at high level. Crystal Shard + Greater Psionic Shot (10th level bonus feat) -- Sure, it's four feats invested if you include Psionic Meditation so you can do it every round, but 5d6 damage for 1 pp is reasonable, and being able to "surge" for +4d6 damage when you max out Crystal Shard is totally sweet. Works great for a Wilder, too. Control Fire -- similar to matter agitation, but also has some utility value. Cheers, -- N
leomunds_assistant 05-12-07, 08:42 PM	Dude, psychic crush sucks. It's a save-or-die that's close-range, mind-affecting, that doesn't actually kill the target and they get a big +4 bonus on the saving throw. On top of this, it doesn't augment for DC at all, but rather to up it's trivial on-save damage. Compare to Slay Living (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/slayLiving.htm). Note that clerics have a higher attack bonus and better AC in general so they can actually get dirty in melee to deliver it. All right my bad, all I mwas saying is that It worked out well in my last campaign, and by the way, please don't compare it to a spell when we are talking about powers. It is to completely seperate systems, each with their own benifits, and plus he asked about powers..
AntiDjinn 05-12-07, 10:04 PM	Psychic Crush is a 5th level power with a 1st level DC (5 - 4 = 1). It sucks so hard you should get a free Gust of Wind effect when you use it. If your target has such a pathetic Will save that you are confident of taking it down with this, then you could do it with Death Urge or own it with Domination. For power efficiency, look at some non-blasting powers. Claws of the Beast lasts 1 hour per level and can help you dish out lots of damage (if you have the BAB to make use of it). Domination has a reasonable cost considering how much it can accomplish. If you dominate a sorcerer for a few rounds (or splurge and take him over for a day), then all the fireballs, chain lightnings, and horrid wilting he has to dish out are brought under your control. No, it doesn't do damage, but all those charred bodies of your enemies happen courtesy of the points you spend on one manifestation. Some of the oddball powers can also have surprising pp economy. Personality Parasite is rarely used by PCs because it is useless against any target who can't take mental actions to get something done (DMs make wicked use of it against psionic characters). If you manage to overcome the target's Will save (the power has no augmentation options) then for 7 points the target is hosed so long as it can normally use powers of 4th level or higher. Think of it as giving the target a Schism that is trying to kill him, and spending his power points to do so. Except that the secondary mind is not breveted 6 manifester levels (instead, it can only manifest powers up to 3 levels below the max the subject can use). So the secondary mind is attacking the primary or attempting to sabotage its efforts and can augment every power it throws to the subject's full ML; it chews through points faster than a Schism and all in a hostile manner. For 7 of your points (plus focus, because you probably need Greater Psionic Endowment to make it work) you can do many rounds of damage using the subject's points.
hovnarr 05-13-07, 01:15 PM	My favorites have come up already, so I'll just reiterate them pointlessly to waste bandwidth: Matter Agitation: No save, no hit roll or anything makes this incredible at low levels, and you get to do many d6 worth of damage for a single pp! Entangling Ectoplasm: Also only 1 pp. Extend it for 3 pp. Since it's a [no, no] effect, it's useful throughout your career, but especially a bit into the game when the ratio between your ranged attack and opponent's touch AC is more advantageous. Split Energy Conversion Ray: Spend 15 pp and go stand in a fire for a while. Now you have endless energy damage at your disposal, and you can dish out 6*ML in damage each round. Sharing with psicrystal or using Schism makes it even better. Metamorphosis: It costs 7 pp to turn into a hydra and attack 12 times per round. Or become a Cloaker for endless Hold Monster (Ex) effects. Use with Metamorphic transfer for even more pp economy (freebie 36d6 jet, anyone?). Astral Construct: This has the potential to dish out more damage than those pp can typically buy otherwise, albeit a bit slower than typical blasting.
angellis_ater 05-13-07, 02:20 PM	Well, if we are talking purely hypothetically a 20th level character manifesting Claws of the Beast does 1d4 points of damage (+ Strength) which is a medium damage of 2.5 twice per round (5 damage per round). This is active for 20 hours, which means we have 10 rounds per minute (50 damage) x 60 minutes (3000 damage) x 20 hours (60000 damage) for 1 power point. If they have a +2 Strength Bonus (as from Animal Affinity) they do an additional 48000 points of damage for a grand total of 108'000 points of damage for 1 pp. :-)
Psikerlord 05-13-07, 04:54 PM	Grease is a great battlefield control spell for a meagre 1pp, has a very good chance of keeping heavily armoured foes (AP penalty to balance checks) on their butts.
leomunds_assistant 05-13-07, 09:26 PM	As an attempt to redeem myself, I would say that empathic transfer hostile is hella good for only 5pp. If they fail their save, you transfer over up to 50 damage and heal yourself for what ever you transfer over. Even if they make their save you do 25. If you augment it gets even better, at an additional 10 damage transfer per pp I would say it is pretty good. Also If you pay an addtional 6 it is in a 20ft radius around you. The only downside to it is it is on the telepath list ( not necessarily a bad thing) and a lot of psions won't have the health. With expanded knowledge you can get this even though it is on an the teleapth list. So for 5pp you can deal 50, and heal 50 not to shabby.
ravidubey 05-14-07, 07:54 PM	Defensive Precognition, Vigor, Grease, and Entangling Ectoplasm are without question the biggest bang for buck powers out there. Lesser Energy Adaptation is another. Metamorphosis: It costs 7 pp to turn into a hydra and attack 12 times per round. You can't do this. First of all, extra limbs (in this case heads) don't grant you extra attacks. You only gain extraordinary special attacks, and attacking with multiple heads is not listed as an extraordinary special attack. These are always specifically listed, and should never be assumed. If your DM allows you to become a 12 headed hydra and attack 12 times per round, he's crazy generous. That blows game balance many different ways which is undoubtedly why WOTC do not list the hydra's multiple attacks with an (Ex).
hovnarr 05-15-07, 04:57 AM	You can't do this. First of all, extra limbs (in this case heads) don't grant you extra attacks. You only gain extraordinary special attacks, and attacking with multiple heads is not listed as an extraordinary special attack. These are always specifically listed, and should never be assumed. Simply attacking isn't an (Ex) ability, but you do get the creature's attack routine. Here, read this: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040518a A quote for clarification: A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal. Many DMs and players find this rule puzzling. Essentially, it means that if you suddenly find yourself with two extra arms you can't just pick up four weapons and wade into melee, use a four-handed weapon, fire and reload a heavy crossbow (even a repeating heavy crossbow) in the same round, or perform any other combat tricks that come to mind. You can make attacks that are "normal" for you or normal for your assumed form, but you can't combine them. If your DM allows you to become a 12 headed hydra and attack 12 times per round, he's crazy generous. If he allows it, he's simply playing by the rules. Many DMs houserule morph effects one way or the other though. Check out the Cloaker form (Hold Monster at will as an (Ex) ability) or the Roper (6 touch attacks with 2d6 (Ex) Str drain). The true brokenness of the Hydra form isn't 12 attacks/round but the (Su) Jet that you can transfer with Metamorphic Transfer. 36d6 damage, what's up with that?
crizhII 05-15-07, 06:31 AM	or the Roper (6 touch attacks with 2d6 (Ex) Str drain). Dang! Please don't make mistakes like that, I almost choked to death when I read that. I quick visit to the MM later and my Heart attack has been averted. I believe you meant to say Str damage....
SlanderPanic 05-15-07, 10:29 AM	It may not be the most efficient, but death urge[i] is one of my favorites. If you can't kill an enemy, after all, why not make him kill himself? It's especially effective against melee-types with big-crit weapons (axes, scythes, etc.) and low Will saves. I'm also quite fond of [i]decerebrate and baleful teleport, just for the sheer fun of teleporting away someone's internal organs and then getting to describe it. As mentioned before, hostile empathic transfer is a lot of fun when an enemy gets too close. For psychic warriors, it's especially useful in a power storing weapon. Wait for your enemy to lay some pain on you, then give it right back!
ninja1 05-15-07, 10:41 AM	Alternatively, teleport them at least 200 feet into the air for 20d6 falling damage. Does the psionic version of teleport suffer from the same limitations as the conjuration spell teleport where the object needs a firm surface capable of supporting it? If so, then no teleporting into the air....
BalthazarDArgent 05-21-07, 06:10 PM	As an attempt to redeem myself, I would say that empathic transfer hostile is hella good for only 5pp. If they fail their save, you transfer over up to 50 damage and heal yourself for what ever you transfer over. Even if they make their save you do 25. If you augment it gets even better, at an additional 10 damage transfer per pp I would say it is pretty good. Also If you pay an addtional 6 it is in a 20ft radius around you. The only downside to it is it is on the telepath list ( not necessarily a bad thing) and a lot of psions won't have the health. With expanded knowledge you can get this even though it is on an the teleapth list. So for 5pp you can deal 50, and heal 50 not to shabby. Yes awesome. But, they nerfed it in Complete Pshite. It's now 25 PP, save for half (12). Sniff. Still cool and very useful, but not so ubered out as in the past. In addition to the Entangling Ectoplasms, Matter Agi, etc... Vigor + Share Pain (Psicrystal) provides 10 temp hp for min/lvl and costs are mere 1 pp per level + 3. My 9th level Elocater with Prac Mani and 2 Power Shards (MoE) had 238 hit points last night doing this...shazbot! Damp Power (3 pp) is an immediate action that reduces any variable number attacks to the min result. For example, fireball hits for 10d6, you manifest Damp Power and take 10 points of fire damage. Nasty! Time Hop (5 pp) is another life saver. The ultimate in buying yourself time.
Fromost the Grimm 05-21-07, 06:37 PM	I'm gonna come in swinging here, what about good ol' fashioned cheese? At 8th level, a Kineticist with an Overchannelled Metapower Empowered Energy Missile (Fire) is looking at [(8d6+2d6+10)x1.5=] 67.5 damage. Say five targets all oh-so-conweeniently grouped together in a protective huddle, and assuming a damage range for saving throws, you're looking at a total of 168-337 total. Add Privileged Energy into this, and you're looking at 206-412 damage total. Not bad for 8pp's. However, given that all this is theoretical, let's take it even further with an Overchanelled Metapower Empowered Energy Ball (Fire). 20' radius means 44 5ft.-squares. Once again assuming Maximum Economy Of Target Huddling, that's a well-chunky 1485-2970 damage total -- or 1815-3630 with Privileged Energy -- from 8pp's. Not too shabby at all . . .
hovnarr 05-22-07, 07:04 AM	Time Hop (5 pp) is another life saver. The ultimate in buying yourself time. Yup, it's severely undercosted as a 3rd level power. And you can put it so much good use! Remove obstacles, send fallen comrades ahead of time to tend to their injuries later, use it offensively as a maze effect etc. I'm gonna come in swinging here, what about good ol' fashioned cheese? On a similar note, I've always been a fan of Crystal Shard. You need MANY feats to pull this off however (but you can always use Psychic Reformation if you don't want to be a one-trick-pony): Psion level 10: Overchanneled, split, greater psionic shot crystal shard ML 12 -> 24d6 damage for 12 pp (you take 3d8 overchannel damage, but no problem with vigor). 84 damage on average, killing many foes of your CR in a single blow (no save, no pr). Compare with a level 11 wizard casting disintegrate for 22d6 damage (fort save nerfs completely, sr yes).
Nifft 05-22-07, 02:29 PM	Psion level 10: Overchanneled, split, greater psionic shot crystal shard ML 12 -> 24d6 How are you getting this? You know you can only apply Greater Psionic Shot to one attack unless you have two Foci, and that you're already expending your other Focus to get Split Ray, right? (Yeah, it's only -4d6, but still.) I know vigor can compensate for Overchannel, but it still eats a round to manifest... vigor only lasts 1 min/level, unlike false life. Of course, if you have schism up at 10th level, vigor no longer eats a round. :) Cheers, -- N
BalthazarDArgent 05-22-07, 02:56 PM	Psion level 10: Overchanneled, split, greater psionic shot crystal shard ML 12 -> 24d6 damage for 12 pp (you take 3d8 overchannel damage, but no problem with vigor). 84 damage on average, killing many foes of your CR in a single blow (no save, no pr). Compare with a level 11 wizard casting disintegrate for 22d6 damage (fort save nerfs completely, sr yes). I hate being the math police....so forgive me. Check your pp on that one. Power (10pp) + Feat (2pp) = 12pp: Thus the max you could augment the shot is 10d6 or 20d6 split. (Edit: LOL. Nifft and I crossed the streams.) (Edit 2: Missed the Psionic Shot thing.)
hovnarr 05-22-07, 04:28 PM	Gentlemen - overchanneling at level 10 grants you ML 12... 12 pp, 10 for the power, 2 for the feat (expending one focus), then expending the other focus for +4d6 GPS. 10x2+4=24d6. And schism handles vigor for you, as you point out yourself. Plus you can often (but not always) anticipate when you're likely to face an imminent hostile situation.
Psikerlord 05-22-07, 04:57 PM	I didn't think you can use split ray to hit the same target? In the mage version it states you can, but not in the psionic version..?
hovnarr 05-22-07, 05:18 PM	That's true - the psionic version doesn't include the line that clarifies that the target could be the same for both rays. Thus, many opt to use it like the arcane version if Complete Arcane is allowed, while not allowing it if it isn't. But it's really up to each DM.
BleuDarkHeart 05-22-07, 08:15 PM	Telekinetic thrust, 3rd level (5pp), instantaneous duration, without augmenting it throws up to 250 pounds of enemies (no more than 15) 10 feet per level. Throw them straight up, and this translates to 1d6 damage per level. Not per powerpoint like other powers, but actualy per level like a freely scalling spell. The damage cap is 20d6, but you get an extra 1d6 if you can slam them into the cieling before dropping them. The problem i have with this is that it gives the opponent a will save. So i go about it a different way. I carry around a 250 ball in the bag of holding and launch it like a cannon ball. It does 10d6 on a ranged to hit where you use your int instead of dex. I once crit. and hit a Roc out of the sky with the 20d6 of ball to its face.
Boondoggle 05-23-07, 01:09 AM	I've always been fond of telekinetic maneuver. It scales very nicely without augmentation, but still leaves that as an option. Grappling other spell-casters from a safe distance is very useful. If you're playing a or with warforged, psionic repair damage is the most cost effective healing in existence. Ego whip with moderate augmentation can take down fighter types relatively easily. Temporal Acceleration is, of course, a bargain. Dampen Power has saved my current egoist from disintegration, not to mention more than a few area effects.
crizhII 05-23-07, 05:13 AM	The problem i have with this is that it gives the opponent a will save. So i go about it a different way. I carry around a 250 ball in the bag of holding and launch it like a cannon ball. It does 10d6 on a ranged to hit where you use your int instead of dex. I once crit. and hit a Roc out of the sky with the 20d6 of ball to its face. I like Collosal Crossbow bolts. 3D6 damage each and for extra cheese you can tip them with Adamantine, Cold Iron or Alchemical Silver and EK Metaphysical Weapon to really lay down some smack. I have an NPC Illithid using this and I really think I'm going to have to nerf him or the party won't survive... :gah:
Nifft 05-23-07, 11:12 AM	Gentlemen - overchanneling at level 10 grants you ML 12... 12 pp, 10 for the power, 2 for the feat (expending one focus), then expending the other focus for +4d6 GPS. 10x2+4=24d6. And schism handles vigor for you, as you point out yourself. Plus you can often (but not always) anticipate when you're likely to face an imminent hostile situation. Ah, gotcha... that's a legal and valid tactic, but I don't think it belongs in this thread. :) Schism: 7 pp Vigor: 3-4 pp Overchanneled crystal shard: 12 pp TOTAL: 22-23 pp That's a lot for a 10th level Psion -- hardly "minimum pp" :) Feats for a Telepath: Split Psi Ray, Psicrystal Affinity, Psicrystal Retainment, Point-Blank Shot, Psionic Shot, Greater Psionic Shot -- and if you want to do it frequently, Psionic Meditation. For a non-Telepath, Expanded Knowledge (Schism) is your 9th level feat. That's pretty much all of your feats (for a non-human). Cheers, -- N
hovnarr 05-23-07, 12:15 PM	Schism: 7 pp Vigor: 3-4 pp Overchanneled crystal shard: 12 pp TOTAL: 22-23 pp I have something better: Just take the damage. Then, when you've killed the boss with your big crystal, you go to work on the smaller foes with that Hostile Empathic Transfer you just "charged" with the overchannel damage. Then you still have pp economy all the way ;) Feats for a Telepath: Split Psi Ray, Psicrystal Affinity, Psicrystal Retainment, Point-Blank Shot, Psionic Shot, Greater Psionic Shot -- and if you want to do it frequently, Psionic Meditation. For a non-Telepath, Expanded Knowledge (Schism) is your 9th level feat. That's pretty much all of your feats (for a non-human). Yes, that IS the downside to this strategy. But it's a last ditch solution for those cases when it works better than any other strategy. And then you can toggle it with Psychic Reformation for a pretty XP penny, but that's beside the point.