Mechanics of Charging a Cognizance Crystal [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mechanics of Charging a Cognizance Crystal [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MnemonicSV
07-28-07, 04:24 AM This is a question that occured to me in another thread. I could not find the answer in the XPH or FAQ, thus I'll put it to the psionics community to answer:

How exactly does one charge a cognizance crystal? Specifically, what action is required to do so?

Is it a standard action? Move action? Swift action? Full-round? 10 minutes?

Is it like manifesting a power? Do you provoke attacks of opportunity while charging? Is concentration required? Are you limited to your manifester level when determining how many PPs you can charge it with at one time?

Don't get me wrong... I am aware that 99.9% of the time a psionic character won't be doing any cognizance crystal charging during moments of duress. But let's face it, if you're in a battle involving a foe who is intentionally depleting your reserve, you may find it worth your while to dump some power points into your empty cognizance crystal just before you run out of options (an unlikely scenario to be sure, but possible).

Before I formulate my own houserule, I'd like some opinions on the matter first.
Megido
07-28-07, 06:03 AM I would say its a standard action and the recharge limit per round is equal to your manifester level.

p. 65 XPH, under recharging it basically states recharging a crystal is done on a 1 for 1 basis as if he had manifested a power(emphasis mine).

So lets treat it just like manifesting a power.
my :twocents:
MnemonicSV
07-29-07, 01:42 AM Sounds good to me. "As if he had manifested a power" is still sort of vague on the details, so I'm going to assume this action is treated as standard action (like many powers are), and the number of pp charged at a time is limited by manifester level.

I'm going to treat this action as manifesting a "level 0" power (for purposes of concentration checks, and other effects) with no display, that provokes an attack of opportunity. I will also assume that charging a cognizance crystal is a class ability of any manifesting class: I don't think it makes sense that non-manifesting creatures with a pp reserve (such as elans) should be able charge something they can't actually use.

Even though the text states you must charge the crystal with your own power points, I am willing to allow a character to charge a cognizance crystal using another cognizance crystal (or any other single discreet source, as though manifesting a power). I can't personally see any abuses to this (not yet anyway).
Moosh Nailo
07-29-07, 02:47 PM I'm going to treat this action as manifesting a "level 0" power (for purposes of concentration checks, and other effects) with no display, that provokes an attack of opportunity. I will also assume that charging a cognizance crystal is a class ability of any manifesting class: I don't think it makes sense that non-manifesting creatures with a pp reserve (such as elans) should be able charge something they can't actually use.

Why would it be a class ability? And what is stopping an elan, or whatever else, from using a cog crystal?

Your example, the elan, has a racial pp reserve; on this we agree. Nowhere does it say that you must use pp gained from class levels to charge a cog crystal. Nowhere does it even say you need to have psionic class levels to use power points from a cog crystal. Racial pp count as part of a psionic character's power pool. And it does not say you cannot charge racial abilities with a cognizance crystal. Hell, an elan's racial abilities give an elan without any psionic levels at all a reason to carry one around!

And an elan's abilities that require pp to activate say "...an elan can spend 1 power point to..." I'm pretty sure they can get that power point from anywhere they want to.

They should full well be able to use them.
Antendren
07-29-07, 05:16 PM Nowhere does it say that you must use pp gained from class levels to charge a cog crystal. Agreed. An elan without psionic levels should be able to charge a cog crystal, if they're so inclined.

Nowhere does it even say you need to have psionic class levels to use power points from a cog crystal. Both Cognizance Crystals and Using Stored Power Points say that the points in cog crystals can be used to manifest powers. No other use for them is given.
Zarreth_Nessad
07-29-07, 07:18 PM Interesting point.
For my part, I'll be houseruling that an Elan can use pp from cog. crystals to power their racial abilities, and any other race that might have a similar issue can as well. Might not be RAW, but it doesn't make sense for them to not be able to use it.
Moosh Nailo
07-29-07, 08:24 PM Both Cognizance Crystals and Using Stored Power Points say that the points in cog crystals can be used to manifest powers. No other use for them is given.

That was the hole I found in my argument. But while it says they are to be used to manifest powers, I do not think it is a stretch at all to allow them to be used any differently than the character's own pool of powerpoints.
MnemonicSV
07-30-07, 01:36 AM Moosh:
My stance on barring non-manifesting races from charging a cognizance crystal is just my opinion, a houserule. Of course, since there is no specific documentation given either way on whether this is permissable or not, allowing non-manifesting races to charge a crystal is also a houserule. It's up to the DM to houserule one way or the other, at least until such time as an "official" answer comes our way.

I feel that non-manifesting races should not be able to charge a cognizance crystal for two reasons:
1) The rules state that charging a cognizance crystal is "like manifesting a power." It stands to reason that if one does not have knowledge of how to manifest a power, one cannot charge a crystal (short of a UPD check, see below).
2) It seems thematically flawed that any psionic creature can use a device for one purpose (charging), but not for another (discharging). Yes, that is a judgement call.. but I stick by it.

Even if one were to rule (as I have) that an elan or any other race with pps (or a creature with the Wild Talent feat) is not automatically able to charge a cognizance crystal, a Use Psionic Device check made to emulate a class ability would suffice to allow one to charge the crystal despite lacking a manifesting class. To be honest, I like that idea because it encourages UPD use (albeit in a limited circumstance).

However, the rules as written are quite clear that power points from a cognizance crystal may only be used for manifesting a power.

Allowing a non-manifesting race to withdraw pps from a cognizance crystal is most definitely a houserule. It doesn't seem broken to allow it, but I personally wouldn't do so (again, just an opinion). You will also need to determine how many pps such a creature could draw out at a time. A limit is necessary, since it's hardly fair that a manifester would be limited to his manifester level to how many pps he could draw out at once, whereas a non-manifesting psionic creature would not have such a limit. I suggest only 1 pp at a time for non-manifesters.

Edit: And before anyone jumps all over that second-last statement, I am aware that there is no limit to how many pps an elan may use for his racial abilities. I am referring specifically to cognizance crystal use here.
AntiDjinn
07-30-07, 04:27 AM There are no stated restrictions on who can recharge a cog crystal, other than the stipulation that your personal pool is depleted (which implies that you can't bleed one crystal into another; you can't drain 17 one-point crystals to recharge a single 17 point crystal). The type of action involved in recharging is not explicitly stated. It appears the 10 minute attunement period is required for someone to recharge the item (which means it is essentially out of combat in all cases) if they are not already attuned to it. There does not appear to be a Concentration roll involved; you pay the points and the item charges up automatically. It appears you never need to make a Use Psionic Device roll to use or recharge a cog crystal as there is no DC listed for either action on page 38. It does not say you need to be able to manifest powers to recharge one, but you do need to manifest to use one.

Page 44: "a cognizance crystal that stores 5 power points could be used to manifest a power as high as third level."

Page 167: "Cognizance Crystals store power points that psionic characters can use to pay for manifesting their powers." Also: "Thereafter, the owner can use power points stored in the crystals to manifest powers she knows."

That is 3 instances where the text spells out that a cog crystal can be used to manifest powers, none of them mention other uses (qualifying for psionic focus, activating racial abilities, paying for lame feats like Illithid Mind Blast).

The text also states that you can't recharge your personal pool from a cog crystal, why would it do so if points in a crystal are equivalent in all ways to your personal pool?

If you are out of points you can't achieve psionic focus, even if you have a full cog crystal. If you are out of points and want to use elan Resilience, then you are out of luck even if you have a cog crystal because using a racial ability is not manifesting a power and the XPH states 3 times that paying for manifestation is what the item does.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MnemonicSV 07-28-07, 04:24 AM	This is a question that occured to me in another thread. I could not find the answer in the XPH or FAQ, thus I'll put it to the psionics community to answer: How exactly does one charge a cognizance crystal? Specifically, what action is required to do so? Is it a standard action? Move action? Swift action? Full-round? 10 minutes? Is it like manifesting a power? Do you provoke attacks of opportunity while charging? Is concentration required? Are you limited to your manifester level when determining how many PPs you can charge it with at one time? Don't get me wrong... I am aware that 99.9% of the time a psionic character won't be doing any cognizance crystal charging during moments of duress. But let's face it, if you're in a battle involving a foe who is intentionally depleting your reserve, you may find it worth your while to dump some power points into your empty cognizance crystal just before you run out of options (an unlikely scenario to be sure, but possible). Before I formulate my own houserule, I'd like some opinions on the matter first.
Megido 07-28-07, 06:03 AM	I would say its a standard action and the recharge limit per round is equal to your manifester level. p. 65 XPH, under recharging it basically states recharging a crystal is done on a 1 for 1 basis as if he had manifested a power(emphasis mine). So lets treat it just like manifesting a power. my :twocents:
MnemonicSV 07-29-07, 01:42 AM	Sounds good to me. "As if he had manifested a power" is still sort of vague on the details, so I'm going to assume this action is treated as standard action (like many powers are), and the number of pp charged at a time is limited by manifester level. I'm going to treat this action as manifesting a "level 0" power (for purposes of concentration checks, and other effects) with no display, that provokes an attack of opportunity. I will also assume that charging a cognizance crystal is a class ability of any manifesting class: I don't think it makes sense that non-manifesting creatures with a pp reserve (such as elans) should be able charge something they can't actually use. Even though the text states you must charge the crystal with your own power points, I am willing to allow a character to charge a cognizance crystal using another cognizance crystal (or any other single discreet source, as though manifesting a power). I can't personally see any abuses to this (not yet anyway).
Moosh Nailo 07-29-07, 02:47 PM	I'm going to treat this action as manifesting a "level 0" power (for purposes of concentration checks, and other effects) with no display, that provokes an attack of opportunity. I will also assume that charging a cognizance crystal is a class ability of any manifesting class: I don't think it makes sense that non-manifesting creatures with a pp reserve (such as elans) should be able charge something they can't actually use. Why would it be a class ability? And what is stopping an elan, or whatever else, from using a cog crystal? Your example, the elan, has a racial pp reserve; on this we agree. Nowhere does it say that you must use pp gained from class levels to charge a cog crystal. Nowhere does it even say you need to have psionic class levels to use power points from a cog crystal. Racial pp count as part of a psionic character's power pool. And it does not say you cannot charge racial abilities with a cognizance crystal. Hell, an elan's racial abilities give an elan without any psionic levels at all a reason to carry one around! And an elan's abilities that require pp to activate say "...an elan can spend 1 power point to..." I'm pretty sure they can get that power point from anywhere they want to. They should full well be able to use them.
Antendren 07-29-07, 05:16 PM	Nowhere does it say that you must use pp gained from class levels to charge a cog crystal. Agreed. An elan without psionic levels should be able to charge a cog crystal, if they're so inclined. Nowhere does it even say you need to have psionic class levels to use power points from a cog crystal. Both Cognizance Crystals and Using Stored Power Points say that the points in cog crystals can be used to manifest powers. No other use for them is given.
Zarreth_Nessad 07-29-07, 07:18 PM	Interesting point. For my part, I'll be houseruling that an Elan can use pp from cog. crystals to power their racial abilities, and any other race that might have a similar issue can as well. Might not be RAW, but it doesn't make sense for them to not be able to use it.
Moosh Nailo 07-29-07, 08:24 PM	Both Cognizance Crystals and Using Stored Power Points say that the points in cog crystals can be used to manifest powers. No other use for them is given. That was the hole I found in my argument. But while it says they are to be used to manifest powers, I do not think it is a stretch at all to allow them to be used any differently than the character's own pool of powerpoints.
MnemonicSV 07-30-07, 01:36 AM	Moosh: My stance on barring non-manifesting races from charging a cognizance crystal is just my opinion, a houserule. Of course, since there is no specific documentation given either way on whether this is permissable or not, allowing non-manifesting races to charge a crystal is also a houserule. It's up to the DM to houserule one way or the other, at least until such time as an "official" answer comes our way. I feel that non-manifesting races should not be able to charge a cognizance crystal for two reasons: 1) The rules state that charging a cognizance crystal is "like manifesting a power." It stands to reason that if one does not have knowledge of how to manifest a power, one cannot charge a crystal (short of a UPD check, see below). 2) It seems thematically flawed that any psionic creature can use a device for one purpose (charging), but not for another (discharging). Yes, that is a judgement call.. but I stick by it. Even if one were to rule (as I have) that an elan or any other race with pps (or a creature with the Wild Talent feat) is not automatically able to charge a cognizance crystal, a Use Psionic Device check made to emulate a class ability would suffice to allow one to charge the crystal despite lacking a manifesting class. To be honest, I like that idea because it encourages UPD use (albeit in a limited circumstance). However, the rules as written are quite clear that power points from a cognizance crystal may only be used for manifesting a power. Allowing a non-manifesting race to withdraw pps from a cognizance crystal is most definitely a houserule. It doesn't seem broken to allow it, but I personally wouldn't do so (again, just an opinion). You will also need to determine how many pps such a creature could draw out at a time. A limit is necessary, since it's hardly fair that a manifester would be limited to his manifester level to how many pps he could draw out at once, whereas a non-manifesting psionic creature would not have such a limit. I suggest only 1 pp at a time for non-manifesters. Edit: And before anyone jumps all over that second-last statement, I am aware that there is no limit to how many pps an elan may use for his racial abilities. I am referring specifically to cognizance crystal use here.
AntiDjinn 07-30-07, 04:27 AM	There are no stated restrictions on who can recharge a cog crystal, other than the stipulation that your personal pool is depleted (which implies that you can't bleed one crystal into another; you can't drain 17 one-point crystals to recharge a single 17 point crystal). The type of action involved in recharging is not explicitly stated. It appears the 10 minute attunement period is required for someone to recharge the item (which means it is essentially out of combat in all cases) if they are not already attuned to it. There does not appear to be a Concentration roll involved; you pay the points and the item charges up automatically. It appears you never need to make a Use Psionic Device roll to use or recharge a cog crystal as there is no DC listed for either action on page 38. It does not say you need to be able to manifest powers to recharge one, but you do need to manifest to use one. Page 44: "a cognizance crystal that stores 5 power points could be used to manifest a power as high as third level." Page 167: "Cognizance Crystals store power points that psionic characters can use to pay for manifesting their powers." Also: "Thereafter, the owner can use power points stored in the crystals to manifest powers she knows." That is 3 instances where the text spells out that a cog crystal can be used to manifest powers, none of them mention other uses (qualifying for psionic focus, activating racial abilities, paying for lame feats like Illithid Mind Blast). The text also states that you can't recharge your personal pool from a cog crystal, why would it do so if points in a crystal are equivalent in all ways to your personal pool? If you are out of points you can't achieve psionic focus, even if you have a full cog crystal. If you are out of points and want to use elan Resilience, then you are out of luck even if you have a cog crystal because using a racial ability is not manifesting a power and the XPH states 3 times that paying for manifestation is what the item does.