Metapsionic feats, Kinda Confused [Archive] - Wizards Community

Metapsionic feats, Kinda Confused [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Adamaro23
09-09-07, 07:26 AM I want to make sure I'm getting this right, You can use a metapsionic feat on any power by spending extra PP and by expending your Psionic Focus. Right, or am I wrong?
Bacris
09-09-07, 07:36 AM Right, so long as the total cost of the power (base cost + metapsionic feat + augmentation) is not higher than your manifester level.
Adamaro23
09-09-07, 07:38 AM Thank you very much, especially for the quick reply.
Psionx
09-09-07, 07:38 AM Correct, but the amount of power points you spend on a single power may not exceed your manifester level.

EDIT: Wow... Ninja'd
AntiDjinn
09-09-07, 10:18 AM Some metapsionics have additional limitations -- see each feat entry. Examples: Chain Power may only be appended to a single-target power that does energy damage (we are searching far and wide for uses that are worth taking this feat), Unconditional Power may only be applied to personal or otherwise self-targeting powers. If you attempt to apply an inappropriate metapsionic, it appears you just waste points but it does not cause the power to fail unless you exceed your manifester cap; it doesn't even increase the DC of a the Concentration check which is figured off the base power level alone.
InkBlot
09-09-07, 12:09 PM Don't forget that you can only expend your psionic focus for one thing at a time! This makes it impossible to apply two or more meta feats to a power, and makes it impossible to use meta feats two or more rounds in a row.

There are ways to get around this limitation. Psicrystal Containment allows you to use your psicrystal's psionic focus, so you can apply two (but not more than two) metapsionics at once. Psionic Meditation allows you to refocus as a move action, instead of a full-round action, leaving you with a standard action you can manifest a power with.

Chain Power may only be appended to a single-target power that does energy damage (we are searching far and wide for uses that are worth taking this feat

Matter agitation, energy flash*, and energy lance* are the only powers which Chain Power can be applied to.

Chain energy flash and chain energy lance aren't worth it. Seven power points for 1d6 damage to seven targets with 30 feet is just bad, and the one-round debuffs don't make up for it. And did I mention that they both give fortitude saves? They're rubbish with Chain Power. You're better of manifesting an actual 4th level power, like energy ball, schism, or fabricate.

Chain matter agitation, on the other hand could be worth using in certain situations. It depends on how long you can concentrate without being attacked, and without the targets moving out of range. If you can hold them for a minute or more, then you've come out ahead on the pp/damage ratio. And then there's energy wall, which does more damage per round, has a better duration, costs fewer power points, and doesn't use a feat.

For some interpretations of Chain Power, it can be used with powers like weapon of energy. This would allow you to energize a greater amount of weapons in one action. Great if you can throw half a dozen daggers every round.
Lycanthromancer
09-09-07, 10:58 PM You can't use Chain Power with matter agitation. Technically, ma doesn't deal fire damage, so it's a wash.
InkBlot
09-09-07, 11:14 PM *smacks forehead* I keep forgetting about that.

OK, if your DM doesn't rule that the power that sets people on fire deals fire damage, then there isn't a single psion/wilder power in the XPH that can be used with Chain Power.

HOWEVER, there are a few Psychic Warrior powers that can be Chained. Weapon of energy, dissolving touch, and dissolving weapon. Chain dissolving weapon is particularly nice for an archer, since you can target a whole handful of arrows in one action for less than it would cost to charge them each individually.
Lycanthromancer
09-09-07, 11:26 PM Should I edit all of the psionic feats along with my XPH powers rewrite?

Chain Power would be useful with any power with Effect: Ray.
InkBlot
09-09-07, 11:45 PM Probably a good idea. I would just remove the energy damage restriction (we already have energy current). There are plenty of powers that only affect one target, but so few that are energy based.
Lycanthromancer
09-09-07, 11:52 PM Technically, ray effects don't have a 'target.' Thus, ray effects couldn't be Chained. Psionic dominate could, though. :evillaugh
AntiDjinn
09-10-07, 02:59 AM Probably a good idea. I would just remove the energy damage restriction (we already have energy current). There are plenty of powers that only affect one target, but so few that are energy based.
That might work, but we would have to scan for broken combos. There are plenty of single-target powers, even touch powers.

The single-target restriction on the base power would prevent combos like Chained Fate Link or weird stuff like Chained True Mind Switch "OK, now as you all adjust to your new bodies, I want you all to get to know the person on your left (the one in your old body). Be nice to that person because if he dies you are dropping a level." Powers that normally specify two targets would be ineligible. What happens if you chain a power with an XP cost? Pay per target or per manifestation?

Let's see where we could go with this:

Chain Bestow Power: Unless you use one of many proposed fixes it is broken even before you make it chained-broken.

Chain Blackstone Hammer: 17 points, but it would affect all melee weapons in the area chosen by you as secondary targets.

Chained Control Body: Hmmmm, concentration is a problem. Would you have to make them all do the some thing (like a fantasy chorus line)? Or concentrate on one at a time? Same for the other targeted controls like Control Object.

Chain Cranial Deluge: Nice mass scanners effect, but simple damage is the most boring effect to chain.

Chain Death Knell: Might as well clear a battlefield of the dying and get a hefty bonus at the same time.

Chain Dimension Twister: "And you go over there, and he goes over here, and that one goes over the lava pit..."

Chain Dimensional Pocket: Filch a whole bunch of objects at once.

Chain Ego Whip: This one will probably be common.

Chain Empower Weapon: 15 points + the cost of the second power: Store that power in your weapon and that of 1 ally per manifester level? Or would the second power have to be manifest multiple times or also chained?

Chain Eyes of the Basilisk: Target 1 creature within 30 feet plus secondary targets up to your manifester level within 30 feet of the primary. Repeat every round.

Chain Feat Leech: So is your limit on number of feats absorbed per target or total per manifestation of the power? Even so, you can choose your allotment form all the creatures targeted.

Chain Identify: If you are going to spend 24 hours at it, might as well simultaneously identify up to 1 additional item per ML within range.

Chain Inflict Pain: 9 points to lay down a group debuff that imposes a -2 penalty on attack rolls even for those who make the Will save.

Chain Mindseed: An adventurer is a lot less likely to be saved by his friends before the seed germinates if you just do the whole party at once. See the XP question above though.

Chain Mind Wipe: A group debuff that could lay 2 negative levels on a whole party plus cohorts. Fully worth 13 points as an opener.

Chain Object Reading: A time and point saver if you need to read several objects; just target them all at once.

Chain Perfect Riposte: Target your melee weapon and up to your ML in secondary weapons belonging to your allies within 30 feet.

Chain Power Leech: Again, is the return per target or per manifestation? Could a 13th level manifester spend 13 points to target his primary plus 13 secondaries for a return of 14 points per round?

Chain Power Thief: Issues similar to Chain Feat Leech.

Chain Psionic Revivify: Recover from a total party wipeout. Again, XP cost?

Chain Psychic Chiurgery: Same XP issue.

Chain Psychic Reformation: Reformat the party and their allied NPCs in one sitting unless the XP cost is per target.

Chain Retrieve: Just imagine the look on the DM's face when you disarm an entire gang of thugs in a single round.

Chain Time Hop: Nifty. Cheaper than Mass Time Hop.
Psionx
09-10-07, 04:33 AM Actually Ink Blot at epic levels you can use quicken power more than once, but as follows:

Automatic Quicken Power (3)
Multipower (X) where X is the number of times+2 that you wish to manifest powers each round.

This combined with infinite power points and high enough manifester level=HUGE NOVA.

Automatic Quicken Power is a 'psionically flavored' version of Automatic Quicken Spell. Multipower is a 'psionically flavored' version of multispell.
carnivore
09-10-07, 09:06 AM you are forgetting the 2 best powers for Chain power:

Energy Claw.... chained = incredible power

Energy Conversion .... chained= Awesome defence and Offence

:D
InkBlot
09-10-07, 09:36 AM Carnivore, neither of those powers have a target! They don't work with Chain Power.

Especially energy claw.
Actually Ink Blot at epic levels you can use quicken power more than once, but as follows:
You're the first person to mention Quicken in this thread.
carnivore
09-10-07, 12:12 PM notice:
CHAIN POWER [METAPSIONIC]
You can manifest powers that arc to hit other targets in addition to the primary target.

Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. You can chain any power that affects a single target and that deals either acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage. After the primary target is struck, the power can arc to a number of secondary targets equal to your manifester level (maximum twenty). The secondary arcs each strike one target and deal half as much damage as the primary one did (round down).

Each target gets to make a saving throw, if one is allowed by the power. You choose secondary targets as you like, but they must all be within 30 feet of the primary target, and no target can be struck more than once. You can choose to affect fewer secondary targets than the maximum (to avoid allies in the area, for example).

Using this feat increases the power point cost of the power by 6. The power’s total cost cannot exceed your manifester level.

and

Energy Conversion
Psychometabolism [see text]
Level: Psion/wilder 7
Display: Mental
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal and close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels); see text
Effect: Ray; see text
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: Yes
Power Points: 13

As energy adaptation, except that instead of radiating away energy as light, you store up the energy and can later discharge it as a ray. To discharge a ray requires a standard action. You can choose to fire any number of rays during the power’s duration. The ray you fire must be of one of the energy types you have stored (if you have stored more than one type, you can choose what kind of energy to use for each ray). If a ray successfully strikes its target (requiring a ranged touch attack), the target takes damage equal to the amount of energy damage of that type you have stored, up to a maximum of three times your manifester level. As long as this power remains in effect, you can continue to absorb energy damage and fire additional rays using the stored damage.

This power’s subtype is the same as the type of energy you discharge in a ray; thus, its subtype can change during the course of the power’s duration.

they dont have to have a "target"... but "affect a single target" ...which both do

:D
Psionx
09-10-07, 01:25 PM I know, its just that I'm specifically making reference to which feat can be used multiple times, maybe not effectively though. Anyway you can also use another feat since focus is not expended, but only on one.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Adamaro23 09-09-07, 07:26 AM	I want to make sure I'm getting this right, You can use a metapsionic feat on any power by spending extra PP and by expending your Psionic Focus. Right, or am I wrong?
Bacris 09-09-07, 07:36 AM	Right, so long as the total cost of the power (base cost + metapsionic feat + augmentation) is not higher than your manifester level.
Adamaro23 09-09-07, 07:38 AM	Thank you very much, especially for the quick reply.
Psionx 09-09-07, 07:38 AM	Correct, but the amount of power points you spend on a single power may not exceed your manifester level. EDIT: Wow... Ninja'd
AntiDjinn 09-09-07, 10:18 AM	Some metapsionics have additional limitations -- see each feat entry. Examples: Chain Power may only be appended to a single-target power that does energy damage (we are searching far and wide for uses that are worth taking this feat), Unconditional Power may only be applied to personal or otherwise self-targeting powers. If you attempt to apply an inappropriate metapsionic, it appears you just waste points but it does not cause the power to fail unless you exceed your manifester cap; it doesn't even increase the DC of a the Concentration check which is figured off the base power level alone.
InkBlot 09-09-07, 12:09 PM	Don't forget that you can only expend your psionic focus for one thing at a time! This makes it impossible to apply two or more meta feats to a power, and makes it impossible to use meta feats two or more rounds in a row. There are ways to get around this limitation. Psicrystal Containment allows you to use your psicrystal's psionic focus, so you can apply two (but not more than two) metapsionics at once. Psionic Meditation allows you to refocus as a move action, instead of a full-round action, leaving you with a standard action you can manifest a power with. Chain Power may only be appended to a single-target power that does energy damage (we are searching far and wide for uses that are worth taking this feat Matter agitation, energy flash, and energy lance are the only powers which Chain Power can be applied to. Chain energy flash and chain energy lance aren't worth it. Seven power points for 1d6 damage to seven targets with 30 feet is just bad, and the one-round debuffs don't make up for it. And did I mention that they both give fortitude saves? They're rubbish with Chain Power. You're better of manifesting an actual 4th level power, like energy ball, schism, or fabricate. Chain matter agitation, on the other hand could be worth using in certain situations. It depends on how long you can concentrate without being attacked, and without the targets moving out of range. If you can hold them for a minute or more, then you've come out ahead on the pp/damage ratio. And then there's energy wall, which does more damage per round, has a better duration, costs fewer power points, and doesn't use a feat. For some interpretations of Chain Power, it can be used with powers like weapon of energy. This would allow you to energize a greater amount of weapons in one action. Great if you can throw half a dozen daggers every round.
Lycanthromancer 09-09-07, 10:58 PM	You can't use Chain Power with matter agitation. Technically, ma doesn't deal fire damage, so it's a wash.
InkBlot 09-09-07, 11:14 PM	smacks forehead I keep forgetting about that. OK, if your DM doesn't rule that the power that sets people on fire deals fire damage, then there isn't a single psion/wilder power in the XPH that can be used with Chain Power. HOWEVER, there are a few Psychic Warrior powers that can be Chained. Weapon of energy, dissolving touch, and dissolving weapon. Chain dissolving weapon is particularly nice for an archer, since you can target a whole handful of arrows in one action for less than it would cost to charge them each individually.
Lycanthromancer 09-09-07, 11:26 PM	Should I edit all of the psionic feats along with my XPH powers rewrite? Chain Power would be useful with any power with Effect: Ray.
InkBlot 09-09-07, 11:45 PM	Probably a good idea. I would just remove the energy damage restriction (we already have energy current). There are plenty of powers that only affect one target, but so few that are energy based.
Lycanthromancer 09-09-07, 11:52 PM	Technically, ray effects don't have a 'target.' Thus, ray effects couldn't be Chained. Psionic dominate could, though. :evillaugh
AntiDjinn 09-10-07, 02:59 AM	Probably a good idea. I would just remove the energy damage restriction (we already have energy current). There are plenty of powers that only affect one target, but so few that are energy based. That might work, but we would have to scan for broken combos. There are plenty of single-target powers, even touch powers. The single-target restriction on the base power would prevent combos like Chained Fate Link or weird stuff like Chained True Mind Switch "OK, now as you all adjust to your new bodies, I want you all to get to know the person on your left (the one in your old body). Be nice to that person because if he dies you are dropping a level." Powers that normally specify two targets would be ineligible. What happens if you chain a power with an XP cost? Pay per target or per manifestation? Let's see where we could go with this: Chain Bestow Power: Unless you use one of many proposed fixes it is broken even before you make it chained-broken. Chain Blackstone Hammer: 17 points, but it would affect all melee weapons in the area chosen by you as secondary targets. Chained Control Body: Hmmmm, concentration is a problem. Would you have to make them all do the some thing (like a fantasy chorus line)? Or concentrate on one at a time? Same for the other targeted controls like Control Object. Chain Cranial Deluge: Nice mass scanners effect, but simple damage is the most boring effect to chain. Chain Death Knell: Might as well clear a battlefield of the dying and get a hefty bonus at the same time. Chain Dimension Twister: "And you go over there, and he goes over here, and that one goes over the lava pit..." Chain Dimensional Pocket: Filch a whole bunch of objects at once. Chain Ego Whip: This one will probably be common. Chain Empower Weapon: 15 points + the cost of the second power: Store that power in your weapon and that of 1 ally per manifester level? Or would the second power have to be manifest multiple times or also chained? Chain Eyes of the Basilisk: Target 1 creature within 30 feet plus secondary targets up to your manifester level within 30 feet of the primary. Repeat every round. Chain Feat Leech: So is your limit on number of feats absorbed per target or total per manifestation of the power? Even so, you can choose your allotment form all the creatures targeted. Chain Identify: If you are going to spend 24 hours at it, might as well simultaneously identify up to 1 additional item per ML within range. Chain Inflict Pain: 9 points to lay down a group debuff that imposes a -2 penalty on attack rolls even for those who make the Will save. Chain Mindseed: An adventurer is a lot less likely to be saved by his friends before the seed germinates if you just do the whole party at once. See the XP question above though. Chain Mind Wipe: A group debuff that could lay 2 negative levels on a whole party plus cohorts. Fully worth 13 points as an opener. Chain Object Reading: A time and point saver if you need to read several objects; just target them all at once. Chain Perfect Riposte: Target your melee weapon and up to your ML in secondary weapons belonging to your allies within 30 feet. Chain Power Leech: Again, is the return per target or per manifestation? Could a 13th level manifester spend 13 points to target his primary plus 13 secondaries for a return of 14 points per round? Chain Power Thief: Issues similar to Chain Feat Leech. Chain Psionic Revivify: Recover from a total party wipeout. Again, XP cost? Chain Psychic Chiurgery: Same XP issue. Chain Psychic Reformation: Reformat the party and their allied NPCs in one sitting unless the XP cost is per target. Chain Retrieve: Just imagine the look on the DM's face when you disarm an entire gang of thugs in a single round. Chain Time Hop: Nifty. Cheaper than Mass Time Hop.
Psionx 09-10-07, 04:33 AM	Actually Ink Blot at epic levels you can use quicken power more than once, but as follows: Automatic Quicken Power (3) Multipower (X) where X is the number of times+2 that you wish to manifest powers each round. This combined with infinite power points and high enough manifester level=HUGE NOVA. Automatic Quicken Power is a 'psionically flavored' version of Automatic Quicken Spell. Multipower is a 'psionically flavored' version of multispell.
carnivore 09-10-07, 09:06 AM	you are forgetting the 2 best powers for Chain power: Energy Claw.... chained = incredible power Energy Conversion .... chained= Awesome defence and Offence :D
InkBlot 09-10-07, 09:36 AM	Carnivore, neither of those powers have a target! They don't work with Chain Power. Especially energy claw. Actually Ink Blot at epic levels you can use quicken power more than once, but as follows: You're the first person to mention Quicken in this thread.
carnivore 09-10-07, 12:12 PM	notice: CHAIN POWER [METAPSIONIC] You can manifest powers that arc to hit other targets in addition to the primary target. Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. You can chain any power that affects a single target and that deals either acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage. After the primary target is struck, the power can arc to a number of secondary targets equal to your manifester level (maximum twenty). The secondary arcs each strike one target and deal half as much damage as the primary one did (round down). Each target gets to make a saving throw, if one is allowed by the power. You choose secondary targets as you like, but they must all be within 30 feet of the primary target, and no target can be struck more than once. You can choose to affect fewer secondary targets than the maximum (to avoid allies in the area, for example). Using this feat increases the power point cost of the power by 6. The power’s total cost cannot exceed your manifester level. and Energy Conversion Psychometabolism [see text] Level: Psion/wilder 7 Display: Mental Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal and close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels); see text Effect: Ray; see text Duration: 10 min./level Saving Throw: None Power Resistance: Yes Power Points: 13 As energy adaptation, except that instead of radiating away energy as light, you store up the energy and can later discharge it as a ray. To discharge a ray requires a standard action. You can choose to fire any number of rays during the power’s duration. The ray you fire must be of one of the energy types you have stored (if you have stored more than one type, you can choose what kind of energy to use for each ray). If a ray successfully strikes its target (requiring a ranged touch attack), the target takes damage equal to the amount of energy damage of that type you have stored, up to a maximum of three times your manifester level. As long as this power remains in effect, you can continue to absorb energy damage and fire additional rays using the stored damage. This power’s subtype is the same as the type of energy you discharge in a ray; thus, its subtype can change during the course of the power’s duration. they dont have to have a "target"... but "affect a single target" ...which both do :D
Psionx 09-10-07, 01:25 PM	I know, its just that I'm specifically making reference to which feat can be used multiple times, maybe not effectively though. Anyway you can also use another feat since focus is not expended, but only on one.