Metapsionic rods [Archive] - Wizards Community

Metapsionic rods [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The_Mess
12-12-07, 07:29 AM Is there anyway to get metapsionic feats into magic items, a la what metamagic rods do for arcanists? I expect not in official material or I'd know about it, but are there any mechanical considerations that would limit just porting a good idea? Should the costs be modified for any reason (I note metashadow rods cost the same as their arcane equivalents)? What about costs for metapsionic feats that don't have official metamagic rod equivalents?

I wrote a much longer, more detailed version of this post, but it doesn't seem to have ever appeared on the forum.
CrimsonDeath
12-12-07, 01:38 PM Once I played with the idea of Metapsionic Crystals, which require the metapsionic feat in question plus the feat Craft Cognizance Crystal to make. I figured the best way to implement it would be that it holds enough PP to use the feat once and you expend your focus to put PP into it. I never mentioned it before because I wasn't sure how powerful it would be...
AntiDjinn
12-12-07, 01:58 PM Mechanically, you run into problems if the device stores points used to pay for a metapsionic enhancement due to the rule that all points used to pay for a given manifestation must come from the same source. If instead the device lowers the point cost by the amount required for the metapsionic, then you don't have this problem. In-game, you could run into balance issues with wilders if the device lowers the point cost to manifest and the wilder can then surge on top of that to get a metapsionic + augmentation + add ML's, but that is the wilder's special and if the device is 3X/day it should not be a real problem.

One other option which would avoid any concerns over point cost would be to have the device stand in for focus expenditure instead. For example, a crystal of Extend Power would allow you to use the feat three times per day without having to expend focus and without having to know the feat. If you want to use this mechanic and make the item very different from metamagic rods, then don't tie it to a specific metapsionic feat: The device lets you apply any metapsionic you know, up to 3X/day without expending focus. If you make the device work off focus instead of point cost then the most popular use will be applying two metapsionics to the same power.

Also note that if the item is an "in hand" rather than slotted, certain metapsionic feats will not be very useful: Unconditional Power: Unless you have the item ready when you get stunned, dazed, nauseated, or whatever, then you really won't be able to reach for it. Opportunity Power: By the time you retrieve an item that serves the same purpose as a rod, the opportunity will be past.
CrimsonDeath
12-12-07, 02:23 PM Also note that if the item is an "in hand" rather than slotted, certain metapsionic feats will not be very useful: Unconditional Power: Unless you have the item ready when you get stunned, dazed, nauseated, or whatever, then you really won't be able to reach for it. Opportunity Power: By the time you retrieve an item that serves the same purpose as a rod, the opportunity will be past.

And you'll need to hold it in a locked gauntlet if you want to use Unconditional Power while Stunned (since a Stunned character normally drops whatever he's holding).
hovnarr
12-12-07, 02:24 PM I really don't see why it needs to be so complicated. Simply state that the item lets the user benefit from the freebee metapsionic effect in question, 3 times per day. For example:

Lesser Crystal of Extend Power (3000 gp, works for powers level 1-3)
This crystal lets a manifester extend a power for free, up to 3 times per day. The manifester need not have the extend power feat, and the use of the crystal does not increase the power point cost.

Could be pretty useful, say, for a 10 round level 3 construct at 5th level. Or does daily augmented buffs (Inertial Armor) that you'd otherwise have to make less effective (-2 pp) to pay for Extend.
AntiDjinn
12-12-07, 03:26 PM It needs specific mechanics because the first thing players will look for is ways to break it. For example: Crystal of Link power lets you use the meta for free three times a day means you get anywhere for 1 to ML-1 points of use. In other words, 3 times per day throw any power you know for free by simply applying it as a meta to another power and waiting that extra round. It should be specified whether or not the total point cost (before making part of it "free") has to come in under your manifesting cap or if the "free" part is simply tacked on at the end. If it simply lets you use a given metapsionic "free" (no restrictions, no concerns for how it is mechanically implemented) then a crystal of Link Power doubles your nova output by allowing you to manifest a topped-out power this round followed by the same power the following round for free.
hovnarr
12-12-07, 03:30 PM Ah, but each needs individual pricing just as the ones in the DMG. The link version could be an epically priced item. Paying 1 round for 0 pp cost isn't unbalancing in an environment where action time is a more important resource than power points.
CrimsonDeath
12-12-07, 03:39 PM It needs specific mechanics because the first thing players will look for is ways to break it. For example: Crystal of Link power lets you use the meta for free three times a day means you get anywhere for 1 to ML-1 points of use. In other words, 3 times per day throw any power you know for free by simply applying it as a meta to another power and waiting that extra round. It should be specified whether or not the total point cost (before making part of it "free") has to come in under your manifesting cap or if the "free" part is simply tacked on at the end. If it simply lets you use a given metapsionic "free" (no restrictions, no concerns for how it is mechanically implemented) then a crystal of Link Power doubles your nova output by allowing you to manifest a topped-out power this round followed by the same power the following round for free.

Remember that metamagic rods are limited by what level spell you can put them on. Metapsionic crystals would probably be limited by how many PP you can spend on the power you use with them. If a Metapsionic Crystal of Link Power is created (a bad idea IMO), it would have perhaps nine versions, to accommodate three levels of base power and three levels of linked power, and about half of those would be Epic items (partly because they'd allow a character to manifest powers costing in excess of 20 PP, and partly because of how expensive they'd wind up being).

The reason I suggested using Craft Cognizance Crystal to craft them would be to provide a plausible reason for someone to take the feat, and the choice of that feat for creating Metapsionic Crystals was the reason I figured they could be "recharged" by expending psionic focus and spending some number of PP-- to mirror the way normal cognizance crystals work. Naturally, the function of the crystal would be to apply a metapsionic feat without expending focus or paying extra PP, dodging the rule that PP for manifesting a power must all come from the same source.
hovnarr
12-12-07, 06:16 PM Yeah, it would be better to just change it so that power level changed with augmentation. That would make everything work more smoothly together IMO. Bah, but who cares. 4.0 soon comes to save the day and then we'll have a brand NEW set of kinks to worry about.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Mess 12-12-07, 07:29 AM	Is there anyway to get metapsionic feats into magic items, a la what metamagic rods do for arcanists? I expect not in official material or I'd know about it, but are there any mechanical considerations that would limit just porting a good idea? Should the costs be modified for any reason (I note metashadow rods cost the same as their arcane equivalents)? What about costs for metapsionic feats that don't have official metamagic rod equivalents? I wrote a much longer, more detailed version of this post, but it doesn't seem to have ever appeared on the forum.
CrimsonDeath 12-12-07, 01:38 PM	Once I played with the idea of Metapsionic Crystals, which require the metapsionic feat in question plus the feat Craft Cognizance Crystal to make. I figured the best way to implement it would be that it holds enough PP to use the feat once and you expend your focus to put PP into it. I never mentioned it before because I wasn't sure how powerful it would be...
AntiDjinn 12-12-07, 01:58 PM	Mechanically, you run into problems if the device stores points used to pay for a metapsionic enhancement due to the rule that all points used to pay for a given manifestation must come from the same source. If instead the device lowers the point cost by the amount required for the metapsionic, then you don't have this problem. In-game, you could run into balance issues with wilders if the device lowers the point cost to manifest and the wilder can then surge on top of that to get a metapsionic + augmentation + add ML's, but that is the wilder's special and if the device is 3X/day it should not be a real problem. One other option which would avoid any concerns over point cost would be to have the device stand in for focus expenditure instead. For example, a crystal of Extend Power would allow you to use the feat three times per day without having to expend focus and without having to know the feat. If you want to use this mechanic and make the item very different from metamagic rods, then don't tie it to a specific metapsionic feat: The device lets you apply any metapsionic you know, up to 3X/day without expending focus. If you make the device work off focus instead of point cost then the most popular use will be applying two metapsionics to the same power. Also note that if the item is an "in hand" rather than slotted, certain metapsionic feats will not be very useful: Unconditional Power: Unless you have the item ready when you get stunned, dazed, nauseated, or whatever, then you really won't be able to reach for it. Opportunity Power: By the time you retrieve an item that serves the same purpose as a rod, the opportunity will be past.
CrimsonDeath 12-12-07, 02:23 PM	Also note that if the item is an "in hand" rather than slotted, certain metapsionic feats will not be very useful: Unconditional Power: Unless you have the item ready when you get stunned, dazed, nauseated, or whatever, then you really won't be able to reach for it. Opportunity Power: By the time you retrieve an item that serves the same purpose as a rod, the opportunity will be past. And you'll need to hold it in a locked gauntlet if you want to use Unconditional Power while Stunned (since a Stunned character normally drops whatever he's holding).
hovnarr 12-12-07, 02:24 PM	I really don't see why it needs to be so complicated. Simply state that the item lets the user benefit from the freebee metapsionic effect in question, 3 times per day. For example: Lesser Crystal of Extend Power (3000 gp, works for powers level 1-3) This crystal lets a manifester extend a power for free, up to 3 times per day. The manifester need not have the extend power feat, and the use of the crystal does not increase the power point cost. Could be pretty useful, say, for a 10 round level 3 construct at 5th level. Or does daily augmented buffs (Inertial Armor) that you'd otherwise have to make less effective (-2 pp) to pay for Extend.
AntiDjinn 12-12-07, 03:26 PM	It needs specific mechanics because the first thing players will look for is ways to break it. For example: Crystal of Link power lets you use the meta for free three times a day means you get anywhere for 1 to ML-1 points of use. In other words, 3 times per day throw any power you know for free by simply applying it as a meta to another power and waiting that extra round. It should be specified whether or not the total point cost (before making part of it "free") has to come in under your manifesting cap or if the "free" part is simply tacked on at the end. If it simply lets you use a given metapsionic "free" (no restrictions, no concerns for how it is mechanically implemented) then a crystal of Link Power doubles your nova output by allowing you to manifest a topped-out power this round followed by the same power the following round for free.
hovnarr 12-12-07, 03:30 PM	Ah, but each needs individual pricing just as the ones in the DMG. The link version could be an epically priced item. Paying 1 round for 0 pp cost isn't unbalancing in an environment where action time is a more important resource than power points.
CrimsonDeath 12-12-07, 03:39 PM	It needs specific mechanics because the first thing players will look for is ways to break it. For example: Crystal of Link power lets you use the meta for free three times a day means you get anywhere for 1 to ML-1 points of use. In other words, 3 times per day throw any power you know for free by simply applying it as a meta to another power and waiting that extra round. It should be specified whether or not the total point cost (before making part of it "free") has to come in under your manifesting cap or if the "free" part is simply tacked on at the end. If it simply lets you use a given metapsionic "free" (no restrictions, no concerns for how it is mechanically implemented) then a crystal of Link Power doubles your nova output by allowing you to manifest a topped-out power this round followed by the same power the following round for free. Remember that metamagic rods are limited by what level spell you can put them on. Metapsionic crystals would probably be limited by how many PP you can spend on the power you use with them. If a Metapsionic Crystal of Link Power is created (a bad idea IMO), it would have perhaps nine versions, to accommodate three levels of base power and three levels of linked power, and about half of those would be Epic items (partly because they'd allow a character to manifest powers costing in excess of 20 PP, and partly because of how expensive they'd wind up being). The reason I suggested using Craft Cognizance Crystal to craft them would be to provide a plausible reason for someone to take the feat, and the choice of that feat for creating Metapsionic Crystals was the reason I figured they could be "recharged" by expending psionic focus and spending some number of PP-- to mirror the way normal cognizance crystals work. Naturally, the function of the crystal would be to apply a metapsionic feat without expending focus or paying extra PP, dodging the rule that PP for manifesting a power must all come from the same source.
hovnarr 12-12-07, 06:16 PM	Yeah, it would be better to just change it so that power level changed with augmentation. That would make everything work more smoothly together IMO. Bah, but who cares. 4.0 soon comes to save the day and then we'll have a brand NEW set of kinks to worry about.