Post/Author/DateTime	Post
neanter 11-15-07, 05:02 AM	1: I was wondering what the use of mind probe is when one can simply charm whatever it is and then ask it whatever questions. Does it probe memories that it might have forgotten or/and that have been modified by modify memory? 2: I just noticed the mind mage prestige class; what and where are psi-spell feats? Anybody have any links? 3: I want to go from mage/psion/cerebremancer to mind mage. Levels in cerebremancer(and all prestige classes continuing spell/manifester classes) and psion are added to the levels in mind mage right? It's not just one class that gets added right? thanks
RavinRay 11-15-07, 07:57 AM	Psi-spell feats are in the same article in Dragon #313 as the mind mage PrC; they enable spells to be enhanced with power points, or powers to be enhanced by spell slots among other things (it's like metamagic and metapsionic feats cross-enhancing each other's territory).
CrimsonDeath 11-15-07, 03:12 PM	1: I was wondering what the use of mind probe is when one can simply charm whatever it is and then ask it whatever questions. Does it probe memories that it might have forgotten or/and that have been modified by modify memory? The only thing Charm does is change the subject's attitude to "Friendly". Are there things you wouldn't tell your friends? Do you think military officers or CIA agents would give their friends classified information? Do you think people would give their business secrets to their friends? Do you think members of criminal organizations would tell their secrets to their law-abiding friends? That's what Mind Probe is for. It makes people give you information, rather than making you convince them to do it.
neanter 11-17-07, 03:38 AM	ok, but what about a dominated npc?
Fireclave 11-17-07, 04:36 AM	ok, but what about a dominated npc? 1) Depending on how you interpret this line... All the subject’s memories and knowledge are accessible to you, ranging from memories deep below the surface to those still easily called to mind. ...memories "deep below the surface" could be interpreted as memories that the character has forgotten, cannot easily recall or may not interpret as pertinent to your question when asked while dominated. Mind Probe allows you to direct access a creature's memories directly without being filtered or colored, however subtlety while dominated, by the creature's consciousness, personality, past experiences, current knowledge, or personal interpretation. 2) Since the creature's memories are imparted directly into your mind, Mind Probe is potentially much faster than interrogating using Dominate Person. 3) Mind Probe allows you to access the thoughts of creatures that do not share a language with you. 4) Mind Probe allows you to access the memories of any creatures, including animals and non-humanoids. Dominating animals to make them talk requires spells that would not be on your list if you're able to cast Mind Probe (Dominate Animal and Speak With Animals), and speaking with animals would be less reliable than directly accessing their memories anyway. And you need wait until you have access to the 9th level Dominate Monster spell to force non-humanoids to talk to you. 5) Mind Probe allows you to access a creature's memories subtly, possibly without their knowing. Mind Probe can be used in many of the situations where you would use Detect Thoughts, especially social settings where a creature suddenly becoming dominated would arouse suspicion. Where, for example, Mind Probing the king would be risky but rewarding, dominating him would be suicide. 6) Since you are accessing the subject's memories directly, you can tap their mind for sensory information, which is impossible to acquire via dominating.
PhaedrusXY 11-17-07, 09:54 AM	I would think that, for example, asking a CIA agent to give you classified and dangerous information might cause some DMs to give them an extra save, as that would be "against their nature", per this clause: Subjects resist this control, and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus.When your entire job/way of life is devoted to gaining and hiding dangerous secrets, I'd say just giving them away qualifies as "against your nature".
moebius00 11-17-07, 01:13 PM	I would think that, for example, asking a CIA agent to give you classified and dangerous information might cause some DMs to give them an extra save, as that would be "against their nature", per this clause: When your entire job/way of life is devoted to gaining and hiding dangerous secrets, I'd say just giving them away qualifies as "against your nature". This is why you always start a Dominated creature off with a Bluff, probably getting a serious bonus to the check. "You've really been a double agent your entire career. I'm your handler at your true agency. Prepare to be debriefed." I usually tell Dominated humanoids from the start that the "allies" they are fighting are actually foes, masked by an illusion.
PhaedrusXY 11-17-07, 02:38 PM	I think that would actually work better with a "Charmed" creature. Dominate doesn't make them believe you, or trust you. It just forces them to obey you.
CrimsonDeath 11-17-07, 03:33 PM	But then, a secret agent would automatically be suspicious of someone claiming to be their deep-cover handler. In a world where everyone knows magic exists, inexplicable friendly feelings toward that person might make him even more suspicious.
PhaedrusXY 11-17-07, 03:38 PM	But then, a secret agent would automatically be suspicious of someone claiming to be their deep-cover handler. They certainly should be, if they'd never met them. I'm sure they'd have some kind of verification system. In a world where everyone knows magic exists, inexplicable friendly feelings toward that person might make him even more suspicious.From my perspective, that's exactly what the magic of "Charm Person" does. It modifies your memory and thoughts so that it seems like that person is your best friend, and that it makes sense. If someone else started questioning the charmed person about it, pointing out inconsistencies, they'd probably feel confused, but it wouldn't automatically break the spell, and their "charmer" could smooth things over with just a word or two. Dominate just forces them to obey you, against their will, and with them knowing it.
neanter 11-21-07, 02:15 AM	Telepathy (Charm) [Mind-Affecting] Level: Telepath 5 Display: Auditory, material, and visual <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Manifesting Time: 1 minute <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One creature Duration: 1 round/level (D) Saving Throw: Will partial; see text Power Resistance: Yes Power Points: 9 I don't see how you could do this around the dinner table without anybody noticing. I would assume all telepaths have mindlink, in which case one can communicate with anything with a mind(willing). how many cia agents have you met/seen/heard of on faerun? Modify memory+dominate is where i'll be going;)
CrimsonDeath 11-21-07, 03:09 AM	I don't see how you could do this around the dinner table without anybody noticing. A Concentration check will hide the displays. Link Power could take care of the duration, or the Psion could make some other excuse for concentrating for a full minute (using the Bluff skill, if he's a Telepath).
Fireclave 11-21-07, 03:30 AM	I don't see how you could do this around the dinner table without anybody noticing. I would assume all telepaths have mindlink, in which case one can communicate with anything with a mind(willing). Like this: Dispense with Displays Despite the fact that almost every power has a display, a psionic character can always choose to manifest the power without the flashy accompaniment. To manifest a power without any display (no matter how many displays it might have), a manifester must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the level of the power). This check is part of the action of manifesting the power. If the check is unsuccessful, the power manifests normally with its display. Also, a character could just use the spell version of Probe Thoughts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/spells/probeThoughts.htm). Disguising the somatic components would be difficult without Still Spell, but you could bluff to disguise the verbal components amid a heated discussion with your buddy about the magical arts, or something. If there's enough background noise and no one is paying particular attention to you, such as in a crowded tavern while sitting at different table than your target, it could work. Alternatively, you could inviso yourself, walk in, probe the guy's mind, "teleport in" and arrive fashionably late for your dinner date. How many cia agents have you met/seen/heard of on faerun? You don't have proper clearance for that information. Modify memory+dominate is where i'll be going If you're not a bard, that combo might be a bit difficult to pull off often without dropping funds for scrolls. I'd prefer to be able to hide in the shadows and mind-probe everyone to my heart's content for free. :incog:
neanter 11-23-07, 03:45 AM	Modify memory is a telepath power. thatnks for the display info, i had overlooked it. how are you to know I don't have clearance? we'll be watching you.....
Fireclave 11-24-07, 02:33 AM	Modify memory is a telepath power. Well technically, telepaths use Psionic Modify Memory. But I forgot about it anyway, so it's all the same :D we'll be watching you..... No! We will be watching you. Gha ha ha ha ha! :P *casts stealth buffs and flees*
CrimsonDeath 11-24-07, 02:49 AM	No! We will be watching you. Gha ha ha ha ha! :P *casts stealth buffs and flees* Every breath you take Every move you make Every bond you break Every step you take I'll be watching you Every single day Every word you say Every game you play Every night you stay I'll be watching you Oh can't you see You belong to me How my poor heart aches with every step you take Every move you make Every vow you break Every smile you fake Every claim you stake I'll be watching you Since you've gone I been lost without a trace I dream at night I can only see your face I look around but it's you I can't replace I feel so cold and i long for your embrace I keep crying baby, baby please Oh can't you see you belong to me How my poor heart aches with every step you take Every move you make Every vow you break Every smile you fake Every claim you stake I'll be watching you Every move you make Every step you take I'll be watching you I'll be watching you (Every breath you take) (Every move you make) (Every vow you break) (Every step you take) I'll be watching you (Every single day) (Every word you say) (Every claim you stake) I'll be watching you (Every breath you take) (Every move you make) (Every vow you break) (Every step you take) I'll be watching you (Every single day) (Every word you say) (Every claim you stake)