Mindblade feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mindblade feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Poison_Dusk
08-16-07, 04:39 AM I am now just putting together my first Soulknife, and my second psionic character, and was looking at the mind blade feats in CPsi(unfortunately the only source). A few I liked, like Mind Cleave. However I the saw the feats for changing the shape. At first I was excited, but then i realized there were only a few... and they all sucked. Hmmm... a dire flail, dwarven ougrash(sp?), two bladed sword, and an orc double axe. In other words a bunch of weapons I have or will never use, and have never seen anyone use. Has anyone else experienced this tragic letdown?
Callix
08-16-07, 06:15 AM Only for the entirety of CPsi. The whole thing was too much "exotic mind blade feats", "improved racial PLA feats" and so many other appalling wastes of space. Soulknives are feat-starved as it is. Are they really going to take TWF, EWP *and* mind blade shape feats for a die increase? No. They'll take Psionic Weapon, Weapon Finesse and Greater Psionic Weapon and actually be able to do something.
Stumpy_the_Tall
08-16-07, 04:25 PM Not sure if you or your DM uses Dragon material but there are some helpful ones in Dragon 341. This issue has my favorite Soulknife feat. Reshape Mind Blade. You can reshape your mindblade into a diffrent weapon you are profecient with. Each new shape needs another use of this feat though. If you wanted a club and a longspear you would need to use two feats. So if you're looking to build something around a certain weapon, use the feat to make your mindblade that weapon.

The issue also has other mindblade feats letting you change the allignment to overcome DR, manifest daggers to throw, manifest a shield, ect.
CrimsonDeath
08-16-07, 04:33 PM If they take Dire Flail Mind Blade, they don't need EWP because they're already proficient with their mind blades.
Callix
08-16-07, 06:19 PM All right, you don't need EWP, and you also don't seem to have to split the enhancement bonus, so there's some good that comes of it. Coupled with Mind Cleave and TWF feats, you can get out a decent number of Psychic Strikes. But it's still a long way down the power list. Swift Mind Strike, now, is a useless feat. 1/day? Make it expend focus at least.
Poison_Dusk
08-16-07, 11:11 PM I still think they are ridiculous weapons. Give me a whip. Or a greatsword. Or greataxe. Something I don't have to spend ANY feat to use. Spending one feat on it is enough, why would I want to spend two?
forsaken1111
08-17-07, 12:00 AM If you have 3 bucks to blow, this (http://dreamscarredpress.com/main/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=16&category_id=1&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=29) might help.
CrimsonDeath
08-17-07, 04:28 PM I still think they are ridiculous weapons. Give me a whip. Or a greatsword. Or greataxe. Something I don't have to spend ANY feat to use. Spending one feat on it is enough, why would I want to spend two?
A Soulknife can't use any of those weapons without multiclassing or spending a feat. In fact, they're not even proficient in the weapons that their mind blades normally mimic.
forsaken1111
08-17-07, 04:35 PM A Soulknife can't use any of those weapons without multiclassing or spending a feat. In fact, they're not even proficient in the weapons that their mind blades normally mimic.

Maybe I misunderstood you, but it sounds like you said a soulknife isn't proficient with his mindblade when its in other forms. A soulknife is ALWAYS proficient with his mindblade, no matter what melee weapon it mimics. And any feats which apply to his mindblade, such as weapon specialization, continue to apply no matter what form the mindblade is in. They don't need to be proficient in longswords to use a mindblade shaped into a longsword.
CrimsonDeath
08-17-07, 08:00 PM Maybe I misunderstood you, but it sounds like you said a soulknife isn't proficient with his mindblade when its in other forms. A soulknife is ALWAYS proficient with his mindblade, no matter what melee weapon it mimics. And any feats which apply to his mindblade, such as weapon specialization, continue to apply no matter what form the mindblade is in. They don't need to be proficient in longswords to use a mindblade shaped into a longsword.
Yes, you misunderstood me completely. I know that the Soulknife is already proficient in his own mind blade. In fact, I already pointed it out. In this thread. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13436555&postcount=4) Poison Dusk, however, said that he wants access to weapons he can use without burning a feat. Then he proceeded to list three weapons that the Soulknife isn't proficient in any more than he's proficient in exotic weapons.
forsaken1111
08-17-07, 08:03 PM Yes, you misunderstood me completely. I know that the Soulknife is already proficient in his own mind blade. In fact, I already pointed it out. In this thread. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13436555&postcount=4) Poison Dusk, however, said that he wants access to weapons he can use without burning a feat. Then he proceeded to list three weapons that the Soulknife isn't proficient in any more than he's proficient in exotic weapons.

Ah okay, my mistake.
Poison_Dusk
08-17-07, 08:14 PM I'm sorry Crimson, but I just don't see your point. You say that the soulblade is always proficent with his mind blade but then ague that he could not take a feat to change it to a greatsword because he is not profecient with it. What am I missing here?
forsaken1111
08-17-07, 08:21 PM I'm sorry Crimson, but I just don't see your point. You say that the soulblade is always proficent with his mind blade but then ague that he could not take a feat to change it to a greatsword because he is not profecient with it. What am I missing here?

There is no feat in the core books which allows him to make his blade into a greatsword. If there were, however, he would be proficient in it. What's the point though? Going from a bastard sword to a greatsword is no great leap. Heck going from a longsword (1d8) to a greatsword (2d6) is only changing your average damage from 4.5 to 7... those extra 2.5 points are not worth a feat. Heck Weapon Specialization isn't worth its extra 2 points of damage either, but its a prerequisite to other feats.

Anyway, if you look into untapped potential or the book I linked above you'll find a lot more options for soulknives, including the ability to shape your blade to new and different weapons.
CrimsonDeath
08-17-07, 09:40 PM I'm sorry Crimson, but I just don't see your point. You say that the soulblade is always proficent with his mind blade but then ague that he could not take a feat to change it to a greatsword because he is not profecient with it. What am I missing here?
I guess I'm missing your point. Why would taking a feat for a greatsword or greataxe mind blade be better than, or even comparable to, the exotic mind-blade feats. If you want a two-handed weapon, just use the bastard sword shape you already get for free. The exotic mind blade feats in CPsi seem intended for two-weapon fighters. I'm particularly puzzled by your desire for a whip-shaped mind blade, since it's probably one of the worst weapons out there for most purposes.
forsaken1111
08-17-07, 09:42 PM I guess I'm missing your point. Why would taking a feat for a greatsword or greataxe mind blade be better than, or even comparable to, the exotic mind-blade feats. If you want a two-handed weapon, just use the bastard sword shape you already get for free. The exotic mind blade feats in CPsi seem intended for two-weapon fighters. I'm particularly puzzled by your desire for a whip-shaped mind blade, since it's probably one of the worst weapons out there for most purposes.

Perhaps, but the 15ft reach combined with some heavy damage enhancements like 1d6 of each elemental type can make it an amazing weapon. You whip them from 15ft away then get attacks of opportunity as they close the distance. On your turn you move away and whip them again, then they close and you get free attacks...
Poison_Dusk
08-17-07, 09:52 PM Actually, you could shape it into whip dagger and deal 1d6 real damage with a 15ft reach. However, I was actually thinking more along the lines of greatswords. Why spend a feat shape it into a greatsword? Flavor for one. I like the idea of seeming unarmed, then creating a great big sword, surpising your enemies. I also kinda like the idea of using a mind scythe.
CrimsonDeath
08-18-07, 01:40 AM OK, Poison, I think we're going in circles largely because I'm not sure what you were talking about when you said this:

I still think they are ridiculous weapons. Give me a whip. Or a greatsword. Or greataxe. Something I don't have to spend ANY feat to use. Spending one feat on it is enough, why would I want to spend two?

Could you please explain?
Poison_Dusk
08-18-07, 03:27 AM I meant a feat other than the onle that lets you use it to begin with, i.e. two weapon fighting and the feats that follow it. I do not want to fight with a double weapon or even two one handed weapons. Therefore I found all those feats to be lacking. The feat in Dragon that lets you reshape it is lacking as well, as you have to be profecient with the weapon. I do not think it would be overpowering to allow you to take ONE feat and turn you mindblade into a better, or more fitting for your character, form. I suppose I could have been clearer with this before.
forsaken1111
08-18-07, 03:47 AM I meant a feat other than the onle that lets you use it to begin with, i.e. two weapon fighting and the feats that follow it. I do not want to fight with a double weapon or even two one handed weapons. Therefore I found all those feats to be lacking. The feat in Dragon that lets you reshape it is lacking as well, as you have to be profecient with the weapon. I do not think it would be overpowering to allow you to take ONE feat and turn you mindblade into a better, or more fitting for your character, form. I suppose I could have been clearer with this before.

Well.. I believe such a feat exists if you're willing to turn to a 3rd party source. : )

In any case, I'm sure you could just work out with your DM a new feat. Since the changing of your mindblade into another weapon is hardly overpowering, in fact it makes little difference other than theme, I don't see why he wouldn't let you blow a feat on it. Its suboptimal, but could fit your concept.
Nightshade
08-20-07, 10:30 PM Go for Psionic Weapon, Greater Psionic Weapon, Psionic Body, Psionic Meditation, and Invest Armor.

Mind Cleave never really appealed to me. You've got to drop someone and all it saves you is a move action. A move action after dropping someone doesn't seem to me to be the equal value of a feat. Just my opinion.

If you're a kalashtar in Eberron, take the above plus Soulblade Warrior. Go into Atavist, take the aggressive spirit and get 10 ft. Reach with your Mindblade. Then take Combat Reflexes and use BladeWind to Kick Some *****!
forsaken1111
08-20-07, 10:31 PM Well if you also have cleave then mind cleave lets you hit the next guy with a charged strike as well...
Poison_Dusk
08-20-07, 10:53 PM Well if you also have cleave then mind cleave lets you hit the next guy with a charged strike as well...
That is what I had in mind. I am making a more heavy hitter type soulknife.
katans
08-22-07, 09:54 AM Cleave isn't worth taking with a Soulknife, you have too few feats for this. Prefer Power attack builds if you're going THW. Mind Cleave will do well with it. Sure, its efficiency decreases at higher levels and it's completely useless against single high-CR monsters, but it's nice. For heavy hitting, go Psionic Weapon and Greater Psionic Weapon or Deep Impact.

The "double weapon" mind blade feats would be pretty nice indeed if the Soulknife had enough feats to go TWF (not having to split enhancements is NICE), but unfortunately he doesn't. Problem is, as often, your medium BAB. You won't hit as good as a full-BAB class and you don't have as many attacks per round anyway. Furthermore, you can use Psychic strike only once per round. In my opinion Soulknives are better off taking the "single hit" road and do thus greatly profitate from Spring Attack.
Example:
lvl 1 Dodge
lvl 3 Mobility
lvl 6 Psi. Wpn.
lvl 9 Spring attack
lvl 12 Psi. meditation (requires 13 Wis!!)
lvl 15 Deep impact

Use Spring attack with Deep Impact and Psychic Strike on one round, reload on the other (Psionic Meditation and imbuing Psychic Strike). Not the uber-melee fighter but worth a shot.
zeddread
08-22-07, 11:51 AM Try the Psychic meditation feats:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827b
The base and the crown are really useful for a soulknife.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Poison_Dusk 08-16-07, 04:39 AM	I am now just putting together my first Soulknife, and my second psionic character, and was looking at the mind blade feats in CPsi(unfortunately the only source). A few I liked, like Mind Cleave. However I the saw the feats for changing the shape. At first I was excited, but then i realized there were only a few... and they all sucked. Hmmm... a dire flail, dwarven ougrash(sp?), two bladed sword, and an orc double axe. In other words a bunch of weapons I have or will never use, and have never seen anyone use. Has anyone else experienced this tragic letdown?
Callix 08-16-07, 06:15 AM	Only for the entirety of CPsi. The whole thing was too much "exotic mind blade feats", "improved racial PLA feats" and so many other appalling wastes of space. Soulknives are feat-starved as it is. Are they really going to take TWF, EWP and mind blade shape feats for a die increase? No. They'll take Psionic Weapon, Weapon Finesse and Greater Psionic Weapon and actually be able to do something.
Stumpy_the_Tall 08-16-07, 04:25 PM	Not sure if you or your DM uses Dragon material but there are some helpful ones in Dragon 341. This issue has my favorite Soulknife feat. Reshape Mind Blade. You can reshape your mindblade into a diffrent weapon you are profecient with. Each new shape needs another use of this feat though. If you wanted a club and a longspear you would need to use two feats. So if you're looking to build something around a certain weapon, use the feat to make your mindblade that weapon. The issue also has other mindblade feats letting you change the allignment to overcome DR, manifest daggers to throw, manifest a shield, ect.
CrimsonDeath 08-16-07, 04:33 PM	If they take Dire Flail Mind Blade, they don't need EWP because they're already proficient with their mind blades.
Callix 08-16-07, 06:19 PM	All right, you don't need EWP, and you also don't seem to have to split the enhancement bonus, so there's some good that comes of it. Coupled with Mind Cleave and TWF feats, you can get out a decent number of Psychic Strikes. But it's still a long way down the power list. Swift Mind Strike, now, is a useless feat. 1/day? Make it expend focus at least.
Poison_Dusk 08-16-07, 11:11 PM	I still think they are ridiculous weapons. Give me a whip. Or a greatsword. Or greataxe. Something I don't have to spend ANY feat to use. Spending one feat on it is enough, why would I want to spend two?
forsaken1111 08-17-07, 12:00 AM	If you have 3 bucks to blow, this (http://dreamscarredpress.com/main/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=16&category_id=1&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=29) might help.
CrimsonDeath 08-17-07, 04:28 PM	I still think they are ridiculous weapons. Give me a whip. Or a greatsword. Or greataxe. Something I don't have to spend ANY feat to use. Spending one feat on it is enough, why would I want to spend two? A Soulknife can't use any of those weapons without multiclassing or spending a feat. In fact, they're not even proficient in the weapons that their mind blades normally mimic.
forsaken1111 08-17-07, 04:35 PM	A Soulknife can't use any of those weapons without multiclassing or spending a feat. In fact, they're not even proficient in the weapons that their mind blades normally mimic. Maybe I misunderstood you, but it sounds like you said a soulknife isn't proficient with his mindblade when its in other forms. A soulknife is ALWAYS proficient with his mindblade, no matter what melee weapon it mimics. And any feats which apply to his mindblade, such as weapon specialization, continue to apply no matter what form the mindblade is in. They don't need to be proficient in longswords to use a mindblade shaped into a longsword.
CrimsonDeath 08-17-07, 08:00 PM	Maybe I misunderstood you, but it sounds like you said a soulknife isn't proficient with his mindblade when its in other forms. A soulknife is ALWAYS proficient with his mindblade, no matter what melee weapon it mimics. And any feats which apply to his mindblade, such as weapon specialization, continue to apply no matter what form the mindblade is in. They don't need to be proficient in longswords to use a mindblade shaped into a longsword. Yes, you misunderstood me completely. I know that the Soulknife is already proficient in his own mind blade. In fact, I already pointed it out. In this thread. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13436555&postcount=4) Poison Dusk, however, said that he wants access to weapons he can use without burning a feat. Then he proceeded to list three weapons that the Soulknife isn't proficient in any more than he's proficient in exotic weapons.
forsaken1111 08-17-07, 08:03 PM	Yes, you misunderstood me completely. I know that the Soulknife is already proficient in his own mind blade. In fact, I already pointed it out. In this thread. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13436555&postcount=4) Poison Dusk, however, said that he wants access to weapons he can use without burning a feat. Then he proceeded to list three weapons that the Soulknife isn't proficient in any more than he's proficient in exotic weapons. Ah okay, my mistake.
Poison_Dusk 08-17-07, 08:14 PM	I'm sorry Crimson, but I just don't see your point. You say that the soulblade is always proficent with his mind blade but then ague that he could not take a feat to change it to a greatsword because he is not profecient with it. What am I missing here?
forsaken1111 08-17-07, 08:21 PM	I'm sorry Crimson, but I just don't see your point. You say that the soulblade is always proficent with his mind blade but then ague that he could not take a feat to change it to a greatsword because he is not profecient with it. What am I missing here? There is no feat in the core books which allows him to make his blade into a greatsword. If there were, however, he would be proficient in it. What's the point though? Going from a bastard sword to a greatsword is no great leap. Heck going from a longsword (1d8) to a greatsword (2d6) is only changing your average damage from 4.5 to 7... those extra 2.5 points are not worth a feat. Heck Weapon Specialization isn't worth its extra 2 points of damage either, but its a prerequisite to other feats. Anyway, if you look into untapped potential or the book I linked above you'll find a lot more options for soulknives, including the ability to shape your blade to new and different weapons.
CrimsonDeath 08-17-07, 09:40 PM	I'm sorry Crimson, but I just don't see your point. You say that the soulblade is always proficent with his mind blade but then ague that he could not take a feat to change it to a greatsword because he is not profecient with it. What am I missing here? I guess I'm missing your point. Why would taking a feat for a greatsword or greataxe mind blade be better than, or even comparable to, the exotic mind-blade feats. If you want a two-handed weapon, just use the bastard sword shape you already get for free. The exotic mind blade feats in CPsi seem intended for two-weapon fighters. I'm particularly puzzled by your desire for a whip-shaped mind blade, since it's probably one of the worst weapons out there for most purposes.
forsaken1111 08-17-07, 09:42 PM	I guess I'm missing your point. Why would taking a feat for a greatsword or greataxe mind blade be better than, or even comparable to, the exotic mind-blade feats. If you want a two-handed weapon, just use the bastard sword shape you already get for free. The exotic mind blade feats in CPsi seem intended for two-weapon fighters. I'm particularly puzzled by your desire for a whip-shaped mind blade, since it's probably one of the worst weapons out there for most purposes. Perhaps, but the 15ft reach combined with some heavy damage enhancements like 1d6 of each elemental type can make it an amazing weapon. You whip them from 15ft away then get attacks of opportunity as they close the distance. On your turn you move away and whip them again, then they close and you get free attacks...
Poison_Dusk 08-17-07, 09:52 PM	Actually, you could shape it into whip dagger and deal 1d6 real damage with a 15ft reach. However, I was actually thinking more along the lines of greatswords. Why spend a feat shape it into a greatsword? Flavor for one. I like the idea of seeming unarmed, then creating a great big sword, surpising your enemies. I also kinda like the idea of using a mind scythe.
CrimsonDeath 08-18-07, 01:40 AM	OK, Poison, I think we're going in circles largely because I'm not sure what you were talking about when you said this: I still think they are ridiculous weapons. Give me a whip. Or a greatsword. Or greataxe. Something I don't have to spend ANY feat to use. Spending one feat on it is enough, why would I want to spend two? Could you please explain?
Poison_Dusk 08-18-07, 03:27 AM	I meant a feat other than the onle that lets you use it to begin with, i.e. two weapon fighting and the feats that follow it. I do not want to fight with a double weapon or even two one handed weapons. Therefore I found all those feats to be lacking. The feat in Dragon that lets you reshape it is lacking as well, as you have to be profecient with the weapon. I do not think it would be overpowering to allow you to take ONE feat and turn you mindblade into a better, or more fitting for your character, form. I suppose I could have been clearer with this before.
forsaken1111 08-18-07, 03:47 AM	I meant a feat other than the onle that lets you use it to begin with, i.e. two weapon fighting and the feats that follow it. I do not want to fight with a double weapon or even two one handed weapons. Therefore I found all those feats to be lacking. The feat in Dragon that lets you reshape it is lacking as well, as you have to be profecient with the weapon. I do not think it would be overpowering to allow you to take ONE feat and turn you mindblade into a better, or more fitting for your character, form. I suppose I could have been clearer with this before. Well.. I believe such a feat exists if you're willing to turn to a 3rd party source. : ) In any case, I'm sure you could just work out with your DM a new feat. Since the changing of your mindblade into another weapon is hardly overpowering, in fact it makes little difference other than theme, I don't see why he wouldn't let you blow a feat on it. Its suboptimal, but could fit your concept.
Nightshade 08-20-07, 10:30 PM	Go for Psionic Weapon, Greater Psionic Weapon, Psionic Body, Psionic Meditation, and Invest Armor. Mind Cleave never really appealed to me. You've got to drop someone and all it saves you is a move action. A move action after dropping someone doesn't seem to me to be the equal value of a feat. Just my opinion. If you're a kalashtar in Eberron, take the above plus Soulblade Warrior. Go into Atavist, take the aggressive spirit and get 10 ft. Reach with your Mindblade. Then take Combat Reflexes and use BladeWind to Kick Some *****!
forsaken1111 08-20-07, 10:31 PM	Well if you also have cleave then mind cleave lets you hit the next guy with a charged strike as well...
Poison_Dusk 08-20-07, 10:53 PM	Well if you also have cleave then mind cleave lets you hit the next guy with a charged strike as well... That is what I had in mind. I am making a more heavy hitter type soulknife.
katans 08-22-07, 09:54 AM	Cleave isn't worth taking with a Soulknife, you have too few feats for this. Prefer Power attack builds if you're going THW. Mind Cleave will do well with it. Sure, its efficiency decreases at higher levels and it's completely useless against single high-CR monsters, but it's nice. For heavy hitting, go Psionic Weapon and Greater Psionic Weapon or Deep Impact. The "double weapon" mind blade feats would be pretty nice indeed if the Soulknife had enough feats to go TWF (not having to split enhancements is NICE), but unfortunately he doesn't. Problem is, as often, your medium BAB. You won't hit as good as a full-BAB class and you don't have as many attacks per round anyway. Furthermore, you can use Psychic strike only once per round. In my opinion Soulknives are better off taking the "single hit" road and do thus greatly profitate from Spring Attack. Example: lvl 1 Dodge lvl 3 Mobility lvl 6 Psi. Wpn. lvl 9 Spring attack lvl 12 Psi. meditation (requires 13 Wis!!) lvl 15 Deep impact Use Spring attack with Deep Impact and Psychic Strike on one round, reload on the other (Psionic Meditation and imbuing Psychic Strike). Not the uber-melee fighter but worth a shot.
zeddread 08-22-07, 11:51 AM	Try the Psychic meditation feats: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827b The base and the crown are really useful for a soulknife.