Mindblade, Soul melds and VoP [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mindblade, Soul melds and VoP [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DracoPhoenix
07-11-07, 03:05 PM Hi,

(I've looked in the Psionics FAQ - but could have missed it)

Would the mindblade and or soul melds invalidate the Vow of Poverty feat? (the whole can't own / use magic items)

I've got a Soulknife / Incarnate (with Illumine soul planned) and am thinking in the campaign down time "re-training" so I have VoP & Weapon Finesse. (VoP +attr to dex, then Wis or visa versa.)

While it looks like the VoP abilities would stack / apply to various melds and the mind blade bonuses, if the mind blade is considered a "magic item" for the purposes of wealth, I may be a bit screwed.

I'm thinking (read hoping) they're "natural abilities" so no, but on the other hand, they are also magic "items" in the strictest sense of the word.

edit
Also, whats the name of the feat (&where) that lets you use wisdom for +atk?

Thanks in advance.
MaverickWolf
07-11-07, 03:15 PM Don't worry, you're just fine. Vow of Poverty doesn't permit anything of value, hence the reason druids can still have their divine focuses and similar such things. Soulmelds and mind blades are perfectly valid options with VoP, and indeed, are likely some of the better ones. They are not magic items. They merely mimic them.
SilentOne
07-11-07, 03:17 PM They're not considered magic items, so there's no violation there.

However, doesn't exalted strike provide an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, meaning it would overlap (not stack) with the mindblade enhancement?

I'd recommend putting your second bonus into Constitution instead of Wisdom, as an incarnate, unless you're planning on using a lot of soulmelds that require saves.

Would you DM allow you to retrain your earliest feats into VoP and thus gain all of the bonus feats along the progression of levels that would normally get passed up by taking it later?
DracoPhoenix
07-11-07, 03:45 PM I'd recommend putting your second bonus into Constitution instead of Wisdom, as an incarnate, unless you're planning on using a lot of soulmelds that require saves.

Would you DM allow you to retrain your earliest feats into VoP and thus gain all of the bonus feats along the progression of levels that would normally get passed up by taking it later?

Thanks all, was fairly sure, but thought "If it's too good to be true, it probably is"

@ silent one, good call on Con - especially if I can find that +wis feat.

The DM is pretty liberal and takes the attitude : as long as it doesnt destroy the game, it's ok.

We're only L5 as it is, but I doubt he'd have a problem with a re-work.
InkBlot
07-11-07, 03:47 PM However, doesn't exalted strike provide an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, meaning it would overlap (not stack) with the mindblade enhancement?
That's right. However, it's not necessarily a bad thing. Now he can choose to not ever take another level of soulknife, and he'll still have a +5 mindblade by 20th level.

Mindblades and soulmelds aren't items. They're physical existence is temporary, they can't be removed from you, they can't be sold, and they can't be bought.
DracoPhoenix
07-11-07, 03:56 PM I'm SK 3 / Incarnate 2 (/Illumine soul 5 /Inc +2 planned).

Looking at TWF & dual short sword mind blades. I think the Exalted strike (which will be higher than the MB +atk) and the Incarnate Avatar will have to surfice for my +atk.

:D

Edit
Ok, just found it - Intuitive Strike. It says simple or natural weapons only though - so next question: Is a mindblade considered a natural weapon?
CrimsonDeath
07-11-07, 04:36 PM By the way, your other question: There are two feats I'm aware of that let you add your Wisdom modifier to attack rolls. One if Zen Archery, which requires BAB +1 and only works on ranged attacks. The other is Intuitive Attack, which is Exalted and only applies to simple or natural weapons (neither of which the Mind Blade is). However, if you're going VoP, you might wind up taking that one anyway when you start running out of decent Exalted feats to take.
InkBlot
07-11-07, 05:45 PM Maybe you could convince your DM to let you take a feat to turn your mindblade into a spear or something. Then you could apply Exalted Strike to it.
DracoPhoenix
07-11-07, 06:55 PM Here's what I have so far:

LN Soulknife 3 / Incarnate 2 Human. (Str13,Dex17,Con15,Int14,Wis14,Cha10 - though I could probably move the 17 if needed).

Feats:
L1 Core: Sacred Vow
L1 Human Bonus : Vow of Poverty
L1 Soulknife : Weapon Focus (Mind blade)
L1 Soulknife : Wild Talent
L2 Exalted Bonus (Ex+) : Intuitive Attack (If I'm lucky, I might get it to apply to the mindblade)
L3 Two Weapon Fighting (Not set in stone)
L4 EX+ : Touch of Golden Ice
L4 Campaign reward : Shape Mind Blade ability (we were allowed ~1 feat as a reward. I just don't get it twice if I ever get to SK 5). Looking at dual shortblades.

Thinking Bonus Essentia, Combat Expertise or TWD at L6. Nimbus->Holy Radiance or Subduing strike for L6 Ex+.

Melds:
Incarnate Avatar,
Planar Ward,
Crystal Helm or Mantle of Flame
(Bound lightening Gauntlets around L12)

Misc:
AC 17,
Atk+ : 6 (8 if I can get Intuitive strike to affect mind blades or weapon finesse)
x2 +1 Weapons. Planning on Keen on both
+1d8/blade Mind strike
saves : F6, R5, W9
Init 2

Bear in mind I'm looking at 5 levels of Illumine Soul and a couple more of Incarnate. Ok, a re-roll of Monk / Incarnate would probably be a bit better for optimisation (or at least the L. Gauntlets/Golden Ice), but I think that's really going to be pushing my luck.

It's probably worth mentioning at this point that the last campaign was I am the mortal reincarination of a God of war (custom panthelon, long story) and I have mindblade ability that means I can harm gods.

Unfortunately I'm also the main tank.

He's got the whole Undead hunting thing going for him (Marut Avatar, Illumine Soul etc)

Oh, and were about to start Red Hand of Doom (no spoilers please).

Any advice? Or is the whole VoP a bad idea?

(Side note: A number Totemist melds provide natural weapons. Hmm Monk/Totemist w/ VoP could be quite nasty for melee hand attacks)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DracoPhoenix 07-11-07, 03:05 PM	Hi, (I've looked in the Psionics FAQ - but could have missed it) Would the mindblade and or soul melds invalidate the Vow of Poverty feat? (the whole can't own / use magic items) I've got a Soulknife / Incarnate (with Illumine soul planned) and am thinking in the campaign down time "re-training" so I have VoP & Weapon Finesse. (VoP +attr to dex, then Wis or visa versa.) While it looks like the VoP abilities would stack / apply to various melds and the mind blade bonuses, if the mind blade is considered a "magic item" for the purposes of wealth, I may be a bit screwed. I'm thinking (read hoping) they're "natural abilities" so no, but on the other hand, they are also magic "items" in the strictest sense of the word. edit Also, whats the name of the feat (&where) that lets you use wisdom for +atk? Thanks in advance.
MaverickWolf 07-11-07, 03:15 PM	Don't worry, you're just fine. Vow of Poverty doesn't permit anything of value, hence the reason druids can still have their divine focuses and similar such things. Soulmelds and mind blades are perfectly valid options with VoP, and indeed, are likely some of the better ones. They are not magic items. They merely mimic them.
SilentOne 07-11-07, 03:17 PM	They're not considered magic items, so there's no violation there. However, doesn't exalted strike provide an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, meaning it would overlap (not stack) with the mindblade enhancement? I'd recommend putting your second bonus into Constitution instead of Wisdom, as an incarnate, unless you're planning on using a lot of soulmelds that require saves. Would you DM allow you to retrain your earliest feats into VoP and thus gain all of the bonus feats along the progression of levels that would normally get passed up by taking it later?
DracoPhoenix 07-11-07, 03:45 PM	I'd recommend putting your second bonus into Constitution instead of Wisdom, as an incarnate, unless you're planning on using a lot of soulmelds that require saves. Would you DM allow you to retrain your earliest feats into VoP and thus gain all of the bonus feats along the progression of levels that would normally get passed up by taking it later? Thanks all, was fairly sure, but thought "If it's too good to be true, it probably is" @ silent one, good call on Con - especially if I can find that +wis feat. The DM is pretty liberal and takes the attitude : as long as it doesnt destroy the game, it's ok. We're only L5 as it is, but I doubt he'd have a problem with a re-work.
InkBlot 07-11-07, 03:47 PM	However, doesn't exalted strike provide an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, meaning it would overlap (not stack) with the mindblade enhancement? That's right. However, it's not necessarily a bad thing. Now he can choose to not ever take another level of soulknife, and he'll still have a +5 mindblade by 20th level. Mindblades and soulmelds aren't items. They're physical existence is temporary, they can't be removed from you, they can't be sold, and they can't be bought.
DracoPhoenix 07-11-07, 03:56 PM	I'm SK 3 / Incarnate 2 (/Illumine soul 5 /Inc +2 planned). Looking at TWF & dual short sword mind blades. I think the Exalted strike (which will be higher than the MB +atk) and the Incarnate Avatar will have to surfice for my +atk. :D Edit Ok, just found it - Intuitive Strike. It says simple or natural weapons only though - so next question: Is a mindblade considered a natural weapon?
CrimsonDeath 07-11-07, 04:36 PM	By the way, your other question: There are two feats I'm aware of that let you add your Wisdom modifier to attack rolls. One if Zen Archery, which requires BAB +1 and only works on ranged attacks. The other is Intuitive Attack, which is Exalted and only applies to simple or natural weapons (neither of which the Mind Blade is). However, if you're going VoP, you might wind up taking that one anyway when you start running out of decent Exalted feats to take.
InkBlot 07-11-07, 05:45 PM	Maybe you could convince your DM to let you take a feat to turn your mindblade into a spear or something. Then you could apply Exalted Strike to it.
DracoPhoenix 07-11-07, 06:55 PM	Here's what I have so far: LN Soulknife 3 / Incarnate 2 Human. (Str13,Dex17,Con15,Int14,Wis14,Cha10 - though I could probably move the 17 if needed). Feats: L1 Core: Sacred Vow L1 Human Bonus : Vow of Poverty L1 Soulknife : Weapon Focus (Mind blade) L1 Soulknife : Wild Talent L2 Exalted Bonus (Ex+) : Intuitive Attack (If I'm lucky, I might get it to apply to the mindblade) L3 Two Weapon Fighting (Not set in stone) L4 EX+ : Touch of Golden Ice L4 Campaign reward : Shape Mind Blade ability (we were allowed ~1 feat as a reward. I just don't get it twice if I ever get to SK 5). Looking at dual shortblades. Thinking Bonus Essentia, Combat Expertise or TWD at L6. Nimbus->Holy Radiance or Subduing strike for L6 Ex+. Melds: Incarnate Avatar, Planar Ward, Crystal Helm or Mantle of Flame (Bound lightening Gauntlets around L12) Misc: AC 17, Atk+ : 6 (8 if I can get Intuitive strike to affect mind blades or weapon finesse) x2 +1 Weapons. Planning on Keen on both +1d8/blade Mind strike saves : F6, R5, W9 Init 2 Bear in mind I'm looking at 5 levels of Illumine Soul and a couple more of Incarnate. Ok, a re-roll of Monk / Incarnate would probably be a bit better for optimisation (or at least the L. Gauntlets/Golden Ice), but I think that's really going to be pushing my luck. It's probably worth mentioning at this point that the last campaign was I am the mortal reincarination of a God of war (custom panthelon, long story) and I have mindblade ability that means I can harm gods. Unfortunately I'm also the main tank. He's got the whole Undead hunting thing going for him (Marut Avatar, Illumine Soul etc) Oh, and were about to start Red Hand of Doom (no spoilers please). Any advice? Or is the whole VoP a bad idea? (Side note: A number Totemist melds provide natural weapons. Hmm Monk/Totemist w/ VoP could be quite nasty for melee hand attacks)