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| carnivore04-04-07, 01:05 PM | Due to the many times this type of thread is posted.....why not just provide a single thread to answer this question. Monks and Psionics: Although there is a Natural affinity for each other.....the way they are combined can greatly effect the overall performance of the character. In general one starts with at least 1 level of Monk to start(many times more levels), and then adds Psionic Classes or PrCs to it. Which Classes or PrCs is very important. For the sake of discussion we will always assume 10 levels of Psionic classes(as many Psionic PrCs are that long and we can also compare them to 10 levels of Base Classes). Monks also have a tendency to MAD(Multiple Attribute Dependancy)..but for the most part are Wisdom Based,so.... Since Monk is Wisdom Based it is normal to look first at :NOTE assume main attribute = 16: Wisdom Based Psionic Classes: Psychic Warrior 10..................... 27 PP / 10 powers known (PW list) 4th lvl Ardent 10................................. 88 PP / 11 powers Known/ 5 mantles (6th lvl with Practiced Manifester) Divine Mind 10........................... 14 PP / 4 powers known...2 mantles 2nd lvl Fist of Zuoken(Psionic Fist) 10...... 71 PP / 10 powers known (PW list) 5th lvl Warmind 10 .............................. 70 PP / 6 powers known (PW list) 5th lvl Zerth Cenobite 10 ..................... 27 PP / 5 powers known (PW List) 4th lvl Intelligence Based Classes: Psion 10 .................................. 88 PP / 21 Powers Known 5th lvl Erudite 10 ................................ 88 PP / 6 unique(23 Powers Known) 5th lvl Lurk 10 .................................... 27 PP / 10 powers known (Lurk List) 4th lvl Charisma Based Classes: Wilder 10 ................................. 88 PP / 6 powers Known 5th lvl Prestige Classes that advance Previous Classes: Cerebremancer Elocator Slayer Thrallherd Psychic Weapon Master Cognition Thief Constructor under construction |
| carnivore04-04-07, 01:07 PM | Feats of Note: feats from Core/XPH: IMPROVED NATURAL ATTACK [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Natural weapon, base attack bonus +4. Benefit: Choose one of the creature’s natural attack forms. The damage for this natural weapon increases by one step, as if the creature’s size had increased by one category: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6. A weapon or attack that deals 1d10 points of damage increases as follows: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8. Special: A creature can gain this feat multiple times. Each time it applies to a different natural attack. Feats from Secrets of Sarlona: Ascetic Psion...............req:Narrow Mind....allows you to freely multiclass with Psion and Monk, also use Int to AC instead of Wis, and lets you re-Focus as a Standard action, as well as progresses unarmed Damage Tashalatora..............req:Monastic Training(psionic class)(ECS)....progresses AC, Unarmed Damage, Flurry of Blows feats from Champions of Valor: Carmondine Monk.........req:Int 13, member of special organization(which allows you to freely multiclass with Cleric and Monk) gives: Int to AC and the DC for Stunning fist and Quivering Palm are based on Int instead of Wis, also +2 monk lvls for one of the following(each day you pick one): 1)Unarmed Damage 2)Speed 3)AC Silver Fang................Base fort save +4, member or ally of special organization Natural Weapon or Unarmed Strike considered Silver vs DR Sun Soul Monk............ Monk 6, member of special order patron= Selune= +1 point cold damage with unarmed strike and considered Silver vs DR, also +3 monk lvl for Speed bonus Feats from Tome of Battle Superior Unarmed Strike.........+5 monk lvls for Unarmed Damage Feats from Eberron Campaign setting book: Double Steel Strike...Req: Exotic Weapon Prof(2 bladed Sword), Weapon Focus(2 Bladed Sword), Flurry Allows you to treat 2 Bladed Sword as Special Monk Weapon and can Flurry with it Whirling Steel Strike...Req: Martial Weapon Prof(Long Sword), Weapon Focus(Long Sword), Flurry Allows you to treat Long Sword as Special Monk Weapon and can Flurry with it Serpent Strike...Req: Simple Weapon Prof(Long Spear), Weapon Focus(Long Spear), Flurry Allows you to treat Long Spear as Special Monk Weapon and can Flurry with it Flensing Strike ....... Req: Exotic Weapon(Kama), Weapon Focus(Kama) as a Full round action,..1 attack..if hits do normal damage and enemy must save(Fort DC 10+1/2 Character lvl+Wis mod(+2 if using Kama)) or -4 penalty to Attacks, Saves, Checks for 1 min Powerful Charge ....... Medium or Larger, BAB+1 when charging....do extra damage....+1d8 Med,+2d6 Large, +3d6 Huge, +4d6 Gargantuan, +6d6 Colossal Greater Powerful Charge ......Powerful Charge, BAB+4 considered +1 size larger Feats from Dracominicon Endure Blows ..... Req: Con 19, Dragon Type, Toughness gives DR 2/- stacks with existing Rapid Strike .......req: Dex 9, pair of Natural weapons, Type=Aberation,Dragon,Magical Beats,Plant,BAB+10 gain 1 extra attack with natural weapon @ -5 Imp Rapid Strike .......req: Dex 9, pair of Natural weapons, Type=Aberation,Dragon,Magical Beats,Plant,BAB+15,Rapidstrike gain 1 extra attack with natural weapon @ -10 Sense Weakness ......req:Int 13, Combat Expertise, Weapon focus(type of weapon) Ignore 5 points of DR or Hardness Feats from Complete Warrior: Flying Kick ........ req: Str 13, Jump 4 ranks, Imp Unarmed Strike, Power Attack +1d12 damage on charge(with unarmed strike) Improved Toughness ...... req: +2 Base Fort save +1 hp/ HD Combat Brute(tactical feat) Elusive Target(tactical feat) Giant Bane(tactical feat) Raptor School(tactical feat) Shock Trooper(tactical feat) Sun School(tactical feat) ....req: Flurry, BAB+4 1)Hit foe with first 2 unarmed attacks in Flurry..and move foe 5'(you can also move 5') 2)stun foe 2 rounds in row....they are Confused 1d4 rounds also 3)Make attack after instantaneous move(Dimension Door,Teleport,etc) Other feats: KNOCK-DOWN [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +2, Improved Trip, Str 15. Benefit: Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee, you make a trip attack as a free action against the same target. HOLD THE LINE [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, base attack bonus +2. Benefit: You may make an attack of opportunity against a charging opponent who enters an area you threaten. Your attack of opportunity happens immediately before the charge attack is resolved. Normal: You only get an attack of opportunity against a character that exits a square you threaten. FLEET OF FOOT [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Dex 15, Run. Benefit: When running or charging, you can make a single direction change of 90 degrees or less. You can’t use this feat while wearing medium or heavy armor, or when carrying a medium or heavy load. If you are charging, you must move in a straight line for 10 feet after the turn to maintain the charge. Normal: Without this feat, you can run or charge only in a straight line. Feats from Races of Stone: Earth Sense .........req: Con 13,Wis 13 while you touch the ground....you can sense # creatures in 20' rad also touching ground Earth Fist(racial) .......... Req: Dwarf, Gnome, Goliath, Earth sense, Imp Unarmed Strike while you touch ground...Unarmed Strike = Cold Iron vs DR Feats from Mini Handbook: Double Hit Deft Opportunist :D |
| carnivore04-04-07, 01:07 PM | Build Combos: Core+XPH: Monk 11/ Warmind 9 BAB +17 9th lvl Manifester 4th lvl powers(5 powers known) 58 Power points benifits: Greater Flurry...can be combined with 2 weapon fighting to get even more and with Sweeping strike, to further boost effectiveness Monk 11/ Psion 1/ Slayer 8 BAB +16 8th lvl Manifester 4th lvl Powers(17 powers known) 58 Power points benifits: Greater Flurry drawbacks: requires more feats Any WoTC material: |
| Syrkres04-04-07, 05:44 PM | Often you want (think) to go Monk, but since Monks are WIS based and Psionics are INT based, they really don't match up as well anymore. Also the fact that since Armor doesn't effect manifestors where it does effect Monks, again another reason they don't match up as well. I use to always try and match up the two, but always ran into those two problems. not high enough stats and the armor need/want problem. The one thing I do like is the Monks unarmed attacks and I think that it does work towards a manifestor, in that they can use touch power, enchant their hands, etc. But I think wizards has done a poor job in coming up with classes that plays this with a armored fighter type. Or a "Natural" weapon fighter type. |
| Tempest Stormwind04-04-07, 05:49 PM | There's a LOT more to psionics than just the psion. Carnivore: Do you have access to Secrets of Sarlona? There's a feat there, Talashatora, that completely redefines the psionic monk. It requires Eberron's Monastic Training feat (targeting any psionic class) and has a few other trivial skill requirements (Concentration, Autohypnosis)... but it lets levels in the chosen psionic class stack for purposes relating to unarmed damage, flurry of blows, and unarmored AC. |
| Perseus_Stoned04-04-07, 06:02 PM | Subscribed; it seems like in this thread you are looking at ways to include a monk in a potent psionic combination. Does this mean you won't be addressing non-psionic improving prestige classes that synergize well with the monk? Is this thread more about optimizing your psionic monk or your monk with psionic levels? |
| dnddreamer04-05-07, 01:18 AM | Maybe this isn't the best place for this...but it comes to my mind while reading. Multi-classing Monk with a Psionic class has a problem because of the multi-class restrictions based on a monk. I can only think of one method to continue down the monk path to recieve their class features with a psionic class...which would be the Elan Monk Racial Class out of UP. Is there another? |
| AdventChild04-05-07, 01:34 AM | Maybe this isn't the best place for this...but it comes to my mind while reading. Multi-classing Monk with a Psionic class has a problem because of the multi-class restrictions based on a monk. I can only think of one method to continue down the monk path to recieve their class features with a psionic class...which would be the Elan Monk Racial Class out of UP. Is there another? You can use monastic training from eberron or diverse background from races of destiny. |
| Tempest Stormwind04-05-07, 01:57 AM | Maybe this isn't the best place for this...but it comes to my mind while reading. Multi-classing Monk with a Psionic class has a problem because of the multi-class restrictions based on a monk. I can only think of one method to continue down the monk path to recieve their class features with a psionic class...which would be the Elan Monk Racial Class out of UP. Is there another? Did you read my post? Carnivore: Do you have access to Secrets of Sarlona? There's a feat there, Talashatora, that completely redefines the psionic monk. It requires Eberron's Monastic Training feat (targeting any psionic class) and has a few other trivial skill requirements (Concentration, Autohypnosis)... but it lets levels in the chosen psionic class stack for purposes relating to unarmed damage, flurry of blows, and unarmored AC.Bolded part summary: Cool feat that redefines how we do psionic monk... requires the feat that removes the monk's multiclass restrictions. |
| Ocom04-05-07, 03:33 AM | Wasn't there a feat that lets you use Int instead of Wis for the AC bonus? But it would be nice to see psionic monks, very Zouken :) |
| Nexis04-05-07, 04:35 AM | Wasn't there a feat that lets you use Int instead of Wis for the AC bonus? But it would be nice to see psionic monks, very Zouken :) I think Kung Fu Genius and some other one from Miniatures handbook both do that. Also, I think in the Mind Unvieled there's some Psionic Monk stuff, if your into third party material. ( Like me :incog: ) |
| Zumarai04-05-07, 06:19 AM | I think Kung Fu Genius Yep, that and Cardemine Monk, though that is FR specific, let you substitute your Int instead of Wis for all monk abilities that rely on Wis (AC, Stunning Fist, Quivering Palm etc). |
| Ocom04-05-07, 06:30 AM | Kung Fu Genius, lol :P Awakened monkey with a quarterstaff? |
| Zumarai04-05-07, 06:46 AM | Kung Fu Genius, lol :P Awakened monkey with a quarterstaff? Or Anthropomorphic Monkey. |
| dnddreamer04-05-07, 11:06 AM | Did you read my post? Bolded part summary: Cool feat that redefines how we do psionic monk... requires the feat that removes the monk's multiclass restrictions. Not having that book...my only exposure to those feats in Eberron is on here. My interpertation of what you said was that it let the flurry of blows, unarmered AC, and unarmed damage continues to go up but didn't say anything about class features like still mind or purity of body. Sorry if my perception of what you said was different than what you meant. |
| carnivore04-05-07, 11:46 AM | yes i do have access to Secrets of Sarlona....and Yes you are correct , it does indeed redefine the Psionic Monk Concept...i have already used it in several builds. Feats from Secrets of Sarlona: Ascetic Psion...............req:Narrow Mind....allows you to freely multiclass with Psion and Monk, also use Int to AC instead of Wis, and lets you re-Focus as a Standard action, as well as progresses unarmed Damage Tashalatora..............req:Monastic Training(psionic class)(ECS)....progresses AC, Unarmed Damage, Flurry of Blows feats from Champions of Valor: Carmondine Monk.........req:Int 13, member of special organization(which allows you to freely multiclass with Cleric and Monk) gives: Int to AC and the DC for Stunning fist and Quivering Palm are based on Int instead of Wis, also +2 monk lvls for one of the following(each day you pick one): 1)Unarmed Damage 2)Speed 3)AC Silver Fang................Base fort save +4, member or ally of special organization Natural Weapon or Unarmed Strike considered Silver vs DR Sun Soul Monk............ Monk 6, member of special order patron= Selune= +1 point cold damage with unarmed strike and considered Silver vs DR, also +3 monk lvl for Speed bonus :D |
| dnddreamer04-05-07, 11:50 AM | Feats from Secrets of Sarlona: Ascetic Psion............... Tashalatora.............. feats from Champions of Valor: Carmondine Monk......... Sun Soul Monk............ :D Thanks for an accurate defination of these feats. |
| carnivore04-05-07, 12:04 PM | as you will see as this thread is completed: Ardent is the best class to multiclass with Monk unless you are playing Core + XPH only....then it is: a toss-up between: Warmind and Psion+Slayer but when considering using Monk and a Psionic Class.....with all WoTC material.....things change greatly!! the best Features of Monk: Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes. Usually a monk’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling. A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons. A monk also deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on Table: The Monk. The unarmed damage on Table: The Monk is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with her unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Table: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage. Flurry of Blows (Ex): When unarmored, a monk may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a –2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. The resulting modified base attack bonuses are shown in the Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus column on Table: The Monk. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the monk might make before her next action. When a monk reaches 5th level, the penalty lessens to –1, and at 9th level it disappears. A monk must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows. When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired. When using weapons as part of a flurry of blows, a monk applies her Strength bonus (not Str bonus x 1-1/2 or x 1/2) to her damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether she wields a weapon in one or both hands. The monk can’t use any weapon other than a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. In the case of the quarterstaff, each end counts as a separate weapon for the purpose of using the flurry of blows ability. Even though the quarterstaff requires two hands to use, a monk may still intersperse unarmed strikes with quarterstaff strikes, assuming that she has enough attacks in her flurry of blows routine to do so. When a monk reaches 11th level, her flurry of blows ability improves. In addition to the standard single extra attack she gets from flurry of blows, she gets a second extra attack at her full base attack bonus. AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load. Ki Strike (Su): At 4th level, a monk’s unarmed attacks are empowered with ki. Her unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. Ki strike improves with the character’s monk level. At 10th level, her unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. At 16th level, her unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction and bypassing hardness. Evasion and Imp Evasion Purity of Body (Ex): At 5th level, a monk gains immunity to all diseases except for supernatural and magical diseases. Diamond Body (Su): At 11th level, a monk gains immunity to poisons of all kinds. Diamond Soul (Ex): At 13th level, a monk gains spell resistance equal to her current monk level + 10. In order to affect the monk with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the monk’s spell resistance. Timeless Body (Ex): Upon attaining 17th level, a monk no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the monk still dies of old age when her time is up. Tongue of the Sun and Moon (Ex): A monk of 17th level or higher can speak with any living creature. Perfect Self: At 20th level, a monk becomes a magical creature. She is forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the monk’s creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, the monk gains damage reduction 10/magic, which allows her to ignore the first 10 points of damage from any attack made by a nonmagical weapon or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn’t have similar damage reduction. Unlike other outsiders, the monk can still be brought back from the dead as if she were a member of her previous creature type. the problem is that you need to take Monk levels or classes that progress these features to get them......................unless you can get some of them by other means(Feats, Magic/psionic items,etc...) With the new feats that are available now you can have some of the best features with virtually no loss of Psionic Power: EXA: MONK 1/ Psion 19.....with the following feats: Monastic Training(psion) Tashalatora(psion) Carmondine Monk Sun Soul Monk(seleune) gives the abilities of a 20th lvl monk for: Unarmed Damage Flurry of Blows AC with a Monks Belt also have the Speed of a 11th lvl Monk while at the same time all the powers of a 19th level Psion :D |
| NthDegree25604-05-07, 01:24 PM | This is from the "Blades of the Quori" (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050110a) Dragonshard article... it has the "at the discretion of the DM" caveat, but I see no reason why a DM who would allow the Talashatora feat should disallow this. The most common martial path among the quori is that of the jilashtora, in which the discipline of monk and soulknife are woven together. At the discretion of the DM, the following feat can be used to represent this tradition. Flowing Blade (General) Your mind blade is an extension of your body and soul, and you wield it with the same grace as your foot or fist. Prerequisite: Ability to generate a mind blade, Weapon Focus (mind blade), flurry of blows class feature. Benefit: You can treat your mind blade as a special monk weapon so that you can perform a flurry of blows with it. Special: A kalashtar or Inspired monk can select this as a bonus feat at 2nd or 6th level, in addition to the normal options available at those levels. They must still meet all prerequisites for the feat. |
| carnivore04-06-07, 10:30 AM | very nice...will add it to the above posts.......here are some more Feats: Feats from Eberron Campaign setting book: Double Steel Strike...Req: Exotic Weapon Prof(2 bladed Sword), Weapon Focus(2 Bladed Sword), Flurry Allows you to treat 2 Bladed Sword as Special Monk Weapon and can Flurry with it Whirling Steel Strike...Req: Martial Weapon Prof(Long Sword), Weapon Focus(Long Sword), Flurry Allows you to treat Long Sword as Special Monk Weapon and can Flurry with it Serpent Strike...Req: Simple Weapon Prof(Long Spear), Weapon Focus(Long Spear), Flurry Allows you to treat Long Spear as Special Monk Weapon and can Flurry with it Flensing Strike ....... Req: Exotic Weapon(Kama), Weapon Focus(Kama) as a Full round action,..1 attack..if hits do normal damage and enemy must save(Fort DC 10+1/2 Character lvl+Wis mod(+2 if using Kama)) or -4 penalty to Attacks, Saves, Checks for 1 min Powerful Charge ....... Medium or Larger, BAB+1 when charging....do extra damage....+1d8 Med,+2d6 Large, +3d6 Huge, +4d6 Gargantuan, +6d6 Colossal Greater Powerful Charge ......Powerful Charge, BAB+4 considered +1 size larger Feats from Dracominicon Endure Blows ..... Req: Con 19, Dragon Type, Toughness gives DR 2/- stacks with existing Rapid Strike .......req: Dex 9, pair of Natural weapons, Type=Aberation,Dragon,Magical Beats,Plant,BAB+10 gain 1 extra attack with natural weapon @ -5 Imp Rapid Strike .......req: Dex 9, pair of Natural weapons, Type=Aberation,Dragon,Magical Beats,Plant,BAB+15,Rapidstrike gain 1 extra attack with natural weapon @ -10 Sense Weakness ......req:Int 13, Combat Expertise, Weapon focus(type of weapon) Ignore 5 points of DR or Hardness Feats from Complete Warrior: Flying Kick ........ req: Str 13, Jump 4 ranks, Imp Unarmed Strike, Power Attack +1d12 damage on charge(with unarmed strike) Improved Toughness ...... req: +2 Base Fort save +1 hp/ HD Combat Brute(tactical feat) Elusive Target(tactical feat) Giant Bane(tactical feat) Raptor School(tactical feat) Shock Trooper(tactical feat) Sun School(tactical feat) ....req: Flurry, BAB+4 1)Hit foe with first 2 unarmed attacks in Flurry..and move foe 5'(you can also move 5') 2)stun foe 2 rounds in row....they are Confused 1d4 rounds also 3)Make attack after instantaneous move(Dimension Door,Teleport,etc) :D |
| kelvinaw27304-06-07, 09:24 PM | Generally, I think the best bet is Monk/Fist of Zuoken. There is a Kalashtar varient on FoZ that basically waives the Wild Talent requirement (most psionic races will get it via DM Fiat of any reasonable DM IMHO), and the class offers excelent power and ability progression. |
| angellis_ater04-06-07, 10:53 PM | Also, I think in the Mind Unvieled there's some Psionic Monk stuff, if your into third party material. ( Like me :incog: ) Indeed - the Mind Unveiled will feature a Psionic Monk together with a bunch of "Schools" which utilize the psionic version (called the "Enlightened Monk") as well as new feats and items for the psionic monk. |
| carnivore04-07-07, 12:47 PM | Generally, I think the best bet is Monk/Fist of Zuoken. There is a Kalashtar varient on FoZ that basically waives the Wild Talent requirement (most psionic races will get it via DM Fiat of any reasonable DM IMHO), and the class offers excelent power and ability progression. actually this is a common Misconception...... Fist of Zuoken does not offer enough to make it worth it...here are some examples: Core+XPH Monk 4/ Psion 2/ Slayer 8 BAB +12 ML 9th 5th lvl powers(Psion/Wilder list and 1 Discipline List) 19 Powers Known 2@5th, 4@4th, 4@ 3rd, 4@2nd, 5@1st 72 PP(not including bonus) 9th lvl Monk abilities: 1d10 unarmed Damage Wis +1 to AC +30 Speed Req:Feat: Track Equipment: Belt, Monk’s: This simple rope belt, when wrapped around a character’s waist, confers great ability in unarmed combat. The wearer’s AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the belt lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus. Moderate transmutation; CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, righteous might or transformation; Price 13,000 gp; Weight 1 lb. compared to : Monk 5/ Fist of Zuoken 9 BAB +9 ML 9th 5th lvl Powers(PW list) 9 powers known 1@5th, 2@4th, 2@ 3rd, 2@2nd, 2@1st 55 PP(not including bonus PP) 14th lvl Monk Ablilites: 2d6 unarmed damage Wis + 2 to AC +40 Speed Req:Feat:Wild Talent even if he had a monks belt...it only gives a total of 2d8 unarmed damage,Wis +3 to AC, +60 Speed the Base attack combined with the Psionic Powers is far stronger when using monk/Psion/Slayer combo, in addition you get the class abilities of Slayer on top of everything. Fist of Zuoken is far better than Zerth Cenobite or any combination of Lurk or Divine Mind,....but it is a poor choice when compared with almost anything else........ Monk 5/ Warmind 9...is even better in almost all aspects than the above example(except: # of powers known), and it requires no feats |
| InkBlot04-07-07, 03:32 PM | First of all, Monk 5 won't qualify you for Fist of Zuoken (FoZ). You need BAB +4 (monk 5 only gives you +3) and 9 ranks in Concentration (6th level max ranks). Second, 3/4 BAB classes should be taken in multiples of 4 to maximize your BAB. So Monk 5/FoZ 9 should be Monk 8/FoZ 8 or Monk 4/Full BAB Class 2/FoZ 8. The later will get you BAB +11, +2d8 unarmed damage, Wis + 3 to AC, and +50 move speed (with the Monk's Belt), 43 base pp/day, and 8 powers known of up to 4th level. It also doesn't have as much MAD as a Monk/Psion, as you only need to boost Wis to cover all your class features. Third, the psychic warrior list is so much better for monks that even the psion's 29 extra pp and 11 extra powers known can't make up for lacking it. Psions don't get weapon of energy, truevenom weapon, vampiric blade, evade burst (at 3rd level), strength of my enemy, psionic lion's charge, painful strike, dissolving weapon, prevenom weapon, metaphysical weapon, grip of iron, or expansion. And feats are too few and too far imbetween to use Expanded Knowledge to compensate. P.S.; yeah, the warmind is pretty ace. |
| calronmoonflower04-07-07, 04:49 PM | A slight rewrite of the Enlightened Fist from the Complete Arcane and you get a good monk/psionic prestige class. It would seems a better fit that a wizard/monk. |
| carnivore04-09-07, 10:45 AM | First of all, Monk 5 won't qualify you for Fist of Zuoken (FoZ). You need BAB +4 (monk 5 only gives you +3) and 9 ranks in Concentration (6th level max ranks). very true...however i was not giving a complete build...only a partial build with bare minimums, but should have made it : Monk 6/ Fist of Zuoken 8 Second, 3/4 BAB classes should be taken in multiples of 4 to maximize your BAB. So Monk 5/FoZ 9 should be Monk 8/FoZ 8 or Monk 4/Full BAB Class 2/FoZ 8. The later will get you BAB +11, +2d8 unarmed damage, Wis + 3 to AC, and +50 move speed (with the Monk's Belt), 43 base pp/day, and 8 powers known of up to 4th level. It also doesn't have as much MAD as a Monk/Psion, as you only need to boost Wis to cover all your class features. ideally,you are correct...and if i was making a complete build i possibly would have(these both are 14 level builds,but should be 15-16 level builds......) as for MAD.....the Psion build can easily overcome that : Wis is nice, but with Psionic Powers(i.e. Inertial Armor,metamorphosis) you can overcome that problem with little difficulty. i would focus on Int and Wis then Dex...like this: Core+XPH only 32 point buy: 10 Str 14 Dex 12 Con 18 Int(+2 levels) 17 Wis(+1 level) 8 Cha Human Monk 4/ Psion 2/ Slayer 8 BAB +12 ML 9th 5th lvl powers(Psion/Wilder list and 1 Discipline List) 72 PP(not including bonus) 9th lvl Monk abilities: 1d10 unarmed Damage Wis +1 to AC +30 Speed Feats: Dodge(human Bonus) Imp grapple(bonus) Combat Reflexes(bonus) Extend Power(psion bonus) 1st..Track 3rd..Psicrystal Affinity 6th..Improved Natural Attack(unarmed strike) 9th..EK(Expansion) 12th..EK(Vampiric Weapon) with the following powers: 19 Powers Known 2@5th, 4@4th, 4@ 3rd, 4@2nd, 5@1st 1st Inertial Armor Vigor Precog(offensive) Entangling Ecto Grease EK: Expansion 2nd Ego Whip Share Pain Detect Hostile Intent Energy Stun 3rd Energy Retort Dispel Psionics Time hop Touchsight EK:Vampiric Weapon 4th Freedom of Movement Dimension Door Divination Metamorphosis 5th Plane Shift Adapt Body items: +4 Headband of intellect +4 amulet of Wisdom +4 Gloves of Dexterity Monks Belt Boots of Speed fully buffed....in ANNI HAG form(with equipment)....his stats are: buffs: 5 pp: Extended Expansion 7 pp: Metamorphosis 9 pp: extended Inertial Armor(+8 armor) 27 Str(+2 size) 14 Dex(-2 size+4 gloves) 14 Con 22 Int 21 Wis 8 Cha unarmed Damage = 1d10 size large (annis Hag form) = 2d8 imp nat att changes to = 3d8 Expansion changes to = 4d8 4d8 + 8(str) damage to all attacks (if needed also can heal 1/2 base unarmed damage(4d8) if Vampiric Weapon is used) Attacks: +12 BAB +8 Str +1 Haste -2 Size= +19 full attack: without flurry: +19/+14/+9 with Flurry: +17/+17/+12/+9 can boost this even higher if needed....precog(offensive) AC: 10 base 10 Natural armor 5 wis 2 Dex 8 Inertial Armor -2 size ........... total AC = 35 and this has a lot of PP to spend still for other encounters.....his buff time is about the same as a Fist of Zuoken would have Third, the psychic warrior list is so much better for monks that even the psion's 29 extra pp and 11 extra powers known can't make up for lacking it. Psions don't get weapon of energy, truevenom weapon, vampiric blade, evade burst (at 3rd level), strength of my enemy, psionic lion's charge, painful strike, dissolving weapon, prevenom weapon, metaphysical weapon, grip of iron, or expansion. And feats are too few and too far imbetween to use Expanded Knowledge to compensate. build one that can beat the build i just made above then....if you can |
| kelvinaw27304-09-07, 06:51 PM | It all depends what you are building for. I'm building a psionic enhanced monk, not a psionic with a few monk powers, which is what you get with the monk/psion option. I would go Monk 8/Foz 6. Less power points, but better melee ability. I would use the powers largely as AC and damage buffs, rather than as stand alones. Feats would include the Psionic Fist feat tree, because Unavoidable Attack with a dissolving touch wrapped up in it is pretty deadly and gets around the monk's major issue of only having 3/4 BAB. There's tendency to try to use monk gish builds as a way of improving the combat survivability of the magic/psionic side of the character, rather than as a magically or psionically enhanced monk. That said, the Illithid Slayer option is interesting - is there any reason a Monk/FoZ could not qualify? |
| carnivore04-10-07, 01:22 PM | that is the Point........Fist of Zuoken cannot do anything Better than a Monk/Psion/Slayer build can do....and Monk/Psion/Slayer can get stronger as it gets more experiance.....any build with Fist of Zuoken reaches a peak, after which point it losses power in comparison to other builds. that is just Considering Core+XPH, when you ADD Complete Psionics things remain the same except that now Monk/Ardent/Slayer becomes the New Powerhouse....and for this type of Build it would be Foolish to try anything else. with the Addition of Secrets of Sarlona and Tome of Battle to the mix......now you have a case of needing Minimal Monk levels to achive the same or greater results...EXA:build to compare to is the following: Human Monk 6/ Fist of Zuoken 10 BAB+11 Feats: Wild Talent Superior Unarmed strike Monastic Training(Fist of Zuoken)(monk bonus) Combat Reflexes(monk bonus) Practiced Manifester overchannel Tashalatora(Fist of Zuoken) Improved Natural Attack feat of choice with monks Belt.......he has the following Monk abilities..Without Buffing: 1) Unarmed Strike=4d8 damage+Str(as if he were a large size) 2) speed as 11th lvl Monk 3) Flurry as 16th lvl monk(greater Flurry: gains 2 extra attacks without any penalty) for Psionic Powers he gets: 14th lvl Manifester(17th with Overchannel) 5th lvl powers(from PW list)...10 powers known 71 PP + Bonus PP based on Wis 2 bonus feats Compared to: Human Monk 2/ Ardent 4/ Slayer 10 BAB+14 feats: Track Superior Unarmed strike Monastic Training(Slayer)(monk bonus) Combat Reflexes(monk bonus) Practiced Manifester overchannel Tashalatora(slayer) Robilars Gambit Improved Natural Attack with monks Belt.......he has the following Monk abilities..Without Buffing: 1) Unarmed Strike=4d8 damage+Str(as if he were a large size) 2) speed as 6th lvl Monk 3) Flurry as 12th lvl monk(greater Flurry: gains 2 extra attacks without any penalty) 4) gets an AoO for every attack that someone attempts even if they miss him for Psionic Powers he gets: 17th lvl Manifester(20th with Overchannel) 9th lvl Powers....3 Mantles: Conflict, Destruction, Natural World..would work great for this...gives Power and Versatility.....12 powers Known 106 PP + Bonus based on Wisdom 2 bonus feats: Weapon focus, Imp Sunder Wild Empathy: 1d20 + ML + Cha to improve attitude of Animals and other creatures Powers i would suggest: 1st: Metaphysical Weapon Prescience, Offensive 2nd: Psi Lions Charge 3rd: Dispel Psionics Dimension Slide 4th: Metamorphosis 5th: oak Body 6th: Disintegrate 7th: Animate Plants 8th: Spirit of War 9th: Intellect Bomb Conclusion: the Fist of Zuoken losess in every way possible(except it does get 1 more feat), how can it be considered better.....as i said before...even using Warmind is better....but for the sake of argument, even if you added Slayer to the build...it cant improve FoZ enough to make it worth taking....unless you want the challenge of playing an Underpowered sub-optimal build(that will cause many difficluties in trying to survive) Remember...this is only a 16th lvl build.....the monk/Ardent/Slayer can only get STRONGER as for comparing it to Monk 8/Foz 6:...it losses even worse....compared to Monk 2/ Ardent 4/ Slayer 8...in every way....even Monk 4/ Psion 2/ Slayer 8...Still is far stronger...in most EVERY WAY :D |
| The_Shaman04-11-07, 05:47 PM | Just to clarify - according to a CustServ ruling, any form of PP reserve suffices for Fist of Zuoken, incl. being a member of a psionic race. So if your DM does not allow you to get Kung Fu Genius, Carmendine Monk or Ascetic Psion, and you have a good wisdom score, there's a reason to go for Fist of Zuoken right there (I don't know what the Ardent uses for manifesting, I only have XPH). Sure, it could be made a bit better, but it doesn't mean it's so bad as it is. If we are to compare it to, say, the Tattooed monk, I'd say the FoZ is better. So what does FoZ give you? Casting attribute that coincides with a monk's typical attribute, simple requirements and - with the CServ clarification - availability to any psionic monk character. Not much, but not exactly useless either. I do wish the FoB improved, though - psionic lion's charge offers for a lot of opportunities. Here are some other feats a monk might be interested in, coming from Oriental Adventures (some have since been reprinted). I must note that some of them allow for some good synergy with psiwarriors/Zuoken monks. - Choke hold (req. IUS, SF, IGrapple): if you pin for 1 round, the enemy must make a save at 10+1/2 level+Wis or fall unconscious for 1d3 rounds. Now, psi-warriors do have something to help their grappling iirc - Defensive throw: free AoO trip when the enemy whom you're dodging from misses you. - Earth's Embrace: double damage when grappling (see choke hold), iirc was decreased in the update. - Falling Star Strike - supposedly requires a SF attempt in 3.5, in 3.0 was at will - with an unarmed attack you could force a hit enemy to save at 10+1/2 level+wis or be blinded for 1round/level. - Fists of Iron - 1d4 (1d6 in 3.5) extra damage several times/day (at the cost of a SF attempt in 3.5 iirc) - Freezing the Lifeblood - updated, use SF attempt to paralyze - Pain touch - when you use SF, the opponents are nauseated in the round after they're stunned - Roundabout kick - extra unarmed attack at every unarmed critical - Unbalancing strike - can deal double damage and your enemy is off-balanced for a round if he fails a 10+1/2level+wis DC reflex save. I suppose it would take a SF attempt. - any of the martial art feats (Empty Hand, Mighty Works, Foot and Fist, Meditations of War, Gentle Way). IMO Empty Hand and Gentle way are the most useful. |
| carnivore04-13-07, 03:23 PM | why go into FoZ ever when you can go into Warmind??? even Psion 1/ Slayer 9 gives more than FoZ :D |
| kelvinaw27304-14-07, 12:56 PM | as for comparing it to Monk 8/Foz 6:...it losses even worse....compared to Monk 2/ Ardent 4/ Slayer 8...in every way....even Monk 4/ Psion 2/ Slayer 8...Still is far stronger...in most EVERY WAY :D But again, you are trying to make a psionic character with a few monk abilities, I am trying to make a monk with some psionic abilities. There's a big difference. Also, the options are limited by the fact that Monk is a MAD class. All well and good your class levels giving you up to X-level powers, but what if your manifesting attribute is too low to allow them? The only options you have that avoid this are psychic warrior (which has great power-synergy with monk abilities, but gains power points and powers at a slower rate than FoZ), FoZ, and Ardent. BUT the Ardent has another problem - in fact it has two. One is you need a feat to cross back and forth between Ardent and Monk. Not important in your example because you have just dipped your first two levels in monk and then walked away. Great for your psionic manifesting levels, but you have lost out on a lot of Monk abilities there. The other issue, you have missed on Ardent Mantles. The increase in manifesting levels does not include the Ardent's additional mantles gained at higher levels, leaving you with a very restrictive and not very synergic set of powers. The FoZ powers are a better list and more synergic. I can see you goal, that you have created a great manifestor with some good monk fighting ability, hats off to you. But I don't want that, I want a monk with some manifesting ability to buff himself and then hit hard as a monk. This at level 20 I might be looking rather more at Monk 13 / FoZ 7. I don't care that my manifestor level is low, because I'm buffing, not blasting. My feats are oriented around manifesting more, they are on the Psionic Fist tree and others to get me in with surprise, deliver an almighty Psionic Lion's Charge flurry of buffed damage and get out again with my Force Shield and Psychometabolism soaking any damage. Any caster hitting me with a Dispel has to deal with my Stunning Fist before he can open his mouth to spit out his teeth to cast his next spell. Yes, this is not a build that will beat every caster at 20th level because at that level pure casters and manifestors rule the roost anyway, but it's the concept that I like, thank you. |
| carnivore04-14-07, 01:32 PM | what resources are you allowed? then i can show you why you can get even more Monk stuff without FoZ . :D |
| kelvinaw27304-15-07, 03:48 AM | what resources are you allowed? then i can show you why you can get even more Monk stuff without FoZ . :D Hm, well, I was originally looking at going for a Monk/FoZ with a kalashtar (psionic race from Eberron) character I had originally built as a pure monk. On 26 point buy my stats at 3rd level were: Str 12, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 10 Feats were Stunning Fist, Deflect Arrows, Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse. Available resources were: Eberron Campaign Setting, Races of Eberron, XPH and Complete Psionic/Adventurer/Arcane/Divine/Warrior. My character concept is more that of "Mystic Monk", rather than "Manifestor with Monk abilities". |
| The_Shaman04-15-07, 07:25 AM | IMO the psychic warrior can be valuable as a way to enter the FoZ. I've seen a CustServ ruling that any PP reserve can be sufficient to enter the PrC (which would make some sense for all the psionic races, who had to take wild talent), so a level or two of psychic warrior could allow you to get in, learn 1-2 powers (ideally those that don't need augmentation to be effective) and save you a feat or two to boot. The problem is that, unfortunately, this will come with a small BAB cost included, unless you use fractional BAB rules. Still, you could definitely find some use for one or two extra powers known. Edit: I just checked something... Do the temporary HP from Vigor get subtracted first? |
| kelvinaw27304-15-07, 09:52 AM | Edit: I just checked something... Do the temporary HP from Vigor get subtracted first? All temporary HP get subtracted first, from whatever source. I think in theory at least the FoZ and Psychic Warrior levels should be stackable (maybe with a specialised feat), as FoZ pretty much is a monk-style psychic warrior, on the manifesting side there is no difference. If you have the opportunity to go FoZ or Psychic Warrior, the latter is only good for the bonus feats and the open-ended progression - FoZ gains power points and power levels faster. |
| carnivore04-15-07, 04:36 PM | Hm, well, I was originally looking at going for a Monk/FoZ with a kalashtar (psionic race from Eberron) character I had originally built as a pure monk. On 26 point buy my stats at 3rd level were: Str 12, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 10 Feats were Stunning Fist, Deflect Arrows, Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse. Available resources were: Eberron Campaign Setting, Races of Eberron, XPH and Complete Psionic/Adventurer/Arcane/Divine/Warrior. My character concept is more that of "Mystic Monk", rather than "Manifestor with Monk abilities". ok...then try this: first adjust the stats: 10 Str 16 Dex 14 Con 10 Int 15 Wis 8 Cha Str is not really that important for this type of Character.....Dex and Wis are most important...since it is a Finnesse fighter type then Con is next, both for Saves and Hit Points Int is next, just enough to avoid a penalty to skills Cha is a Dump stat for this type of character...even with Kalashtars racial bonuses to some Cha based skills as for the actual Build...try this: Kalashtar Monk 11/ Warmind 9 this gives more than any Monk build gives .... notice: BAB +17....thus without Flurry you get 4 attacks/ round.....with Flurry(Greater)...your full attack would be: +17/+17/+17/+12/+7/+2......far better than FoZ can give without loosing something....since Unarmed Combat is supposed to be the forte' of the Monk...this one kicks Hard..even without any buffs next defense.....everything is basically the same....except the AC is less(maximum -2,but the class abilitie "Chain of Defensive Posture" makes up for it).....but it has DR 3/- which more than makes up for it.... the only thing that FoZ actually gives is this: Monk Abilities: A Psionic Fist’s class levels stack with his monk levels for the purpose of determining his unarmed damage and bonuses to Armor Class and unarmored speed. His class levels do not apply to other monk abilities such as flurry of blows, slow fall, and so on. but you can get most of that with this: Monk’s Belt: This simple rope belt, when wrapped around a character’s waist, confers great ability in unarmed combat. The wearer’s AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the belt lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus. Moderate transmutation; CL 10th; Craft Wondrous Item, righteous might or transformation; Price 13,000 gp; Weight 1 lb. all other things being equal..with a Monks Belt....even a Psion 5 is about the same as FoZ 5, for Monk abilities....but Psion 5 is a far better Psionic character still Warmind will give better abilities over the long run...... than FoZ as for feats: Combat reflexes will help more than Deflect arrows...especially combined with Karmic Strike(CW) and Elusive target(CW) seeing as you are going with Weapon finnesse....any Dex based Feat is good...Imp Initiative is actually not worth it....Psycrystal Affinity(Nimble +2: bonus on Initiative checks) is better as you also get Alertness(+2 Listen and +2 Spot) for free...and you can use Share pain with Psicrystal and Vigor for Combat Survival AoO feats are also useful....Sidestep Charge is very nice as is Hold the Line and Close quarters Fighting i choose Monk 11 to get Greater Flurry.....if you had access to Secrets of Sarlona....you need even less Monk Levels to achieve the same results then you could do this: Kalashtar Monk 2/ Psion 4/ Warmind 10/ Slayer 4 10 Str 16 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 15 Wis 8 Cha BAB +17 10th lvl Warmind ML(14th with Practiced Manifester) 6 known powers 5th lvl Powers max 70 PP+ bonus PP(Wis based) 7th lvl Psion ML(11th with PM) 15 known powers 4th lvl Powers max 46 PP + Bonus(Int based) total PP = 116 + bonus from Wis and Int with the feats: Monastic Training(Warmind) Tashalatora(Warmind) Practiced Manifester(Warmind) Practiced Manifester(Psion) Superior Unarmed Strike you get the Greater Flurry as 12th lvl monk, unarmed Damage as 17th lvl Monk(20th with monks belt), AC as 12th lvl Monk(17th with monks belt) most of the other Monk abilities can be duplicated with items or Powers....but it doesnt make any difference..FoZ does not progress them anyways :D |
| ShaRd200004-15-07, 04:53 PM | Anyone have the Hyperconscious book? I'm looking at Lucid Cenobite, and it seems pretty solid... I've thought of some of my own builds for it, but I always come out with around 13th level manifester powers, and level 16th monk abilities, when I use 3 Monk/10 Lucid Cenobite/7 Psion. The student class feature of the LC includes alot of monk abilities that rise with all your levels, it's very nice. I'd like to see how the class adds up in all this number crunching. Anyone else got it? |
| kelvinaw27304-16-07, 12:25 PM | ok...then try this: first adjust the stats: 10 Str 16 Dex 14 Con 10 Int 15 Wis 8 Cha Str is not really that important for this type of Character.....Dex and Wis are most important...since it is a Finnesse fighter type then Con is next, both for Saves and Hit Points Int is next, just enough to avoid a penalty to skills Cha is a Dump stat for this type of character...even with Kalashtars racial bonuses to some Cha based skills as for the actual Build...try this: Kalashtar Monk 11/ Warmind 9 this gives more than any Monk build gives .... notice: BAB +17....thus without Flurry you get 4 attacks/ round.....with Flurry(Greater)...your full attack would be: +17/+17/+17/+12/+7/+2......far better than FoZ can give without loosing something....since Unarmed Combat is supposed to be the forte' of the Monk...this one kicks Hard..even without any buffs next defense.....everything is basically the same....except the AC is less(maximum -2,but the class abilitie "Chain of Defensive Posture" makes up for it).....but it has DR 3/- which more than makes up for it.... the only thing that FoZ actually gives is this: but you can get most of that with this: all other things being equal..with a Monks Belt....even a Psion 5 is about the same as FoZ 5, for Monk abilities....but Psion 5 is a far better Psionic character still Warmind will give better abilities over the long run...... than FoZ as for feats: Combat reflexes will help more than Deflect arrows...especially combined with Karmic Strike(CW) and Elusive target(CW) seeing as you are going with Weapon finnesse....any Dex based Feat is good...Imp Initiative is actually not worth it....Psycrystal Affinity(Nimble +2: bonus on Initiative checks) is better as you also get Alertness(+2 Listen and +2 Spot) for free...and you can use Share pain with Psicrystal and Vigor for Combat Survival AoO feats are also useful....Sidestep Charge is very nice as is Hold the Line and Close quarters Fighting i choose Monk 11 to get Greater Flurry.....if you had access to Secrets of Sarlona....you need even less Monk Levels to achieve the same results then you could do this: Kalashtar Monk 2/ Psion 4/ Warmind 10/ Slayer 4 10 Str 16 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 15 Wis 8 Cha BAB +17 10th lvl Warmind ML(14th with Practiced Manifester) 6 known powers 5th lvl Powers max 70 PP+ bonus PP(Wis based) 7th lvl Psion ML(11th with PM) 15 known powers 4th lvl Powers max 46 PP + Bonus(Int based) total PP = 116 + bonus from Wis and Int with the feats: Monastic Training(Warmind) Tashalatora(Warmind) Practiced Manifester(Warmind) Practiced Manifester(Psion) Superior Unarmed Strike you get the Greater Flurry as 12th lvl monk, unarmed Damage as 17th lvl Monk(20th with monks belt), AC as 12th lvl Monk(17th with monks belt) most of the other Monk abilities can be duplicated with items or Powers....but it doesnt make any difference..FoZ does not progress them anyways :D Interesting build, I'll bear it in mind. Unfortunately changing the stats wasn't optional, but I was going to bump Wis at 4th level and Str at 8th level - strength 13 gets me the psionic fist feat tree, and Unavoidable Strike is just too useful to a monk to do without against high AC opponents. Otherwise interesting - I'll look up the Warmind, I didn't study it that closely because I was under the impression it needed a psionic class to get into. |
| Zemyla04-16-07, 06:05 PM | Combat reflexes will help more than Deflect arrows...especially combined with Karmic Strike(CW) and Elusive target(CW) You don't even need to get Combat Reflexes. You can take Monastic Training instead of your 2nd level feat to get into Tashalatora earlier. |
| Guroth the Forsaken04-17-07, 12:44 PM | Subscribed. :cool: |
| carnivore04-17-07, 01:12 PM | You don't even need to get Combat Reflexes. You can take Monastic Training instead of your 2nd level feat to get into Tashalatora earlier. very true......but Secrets of Sarlona was not among the books he listed he had access to...notice: On 26 point buy my stats at 3rd level were: Str 12, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 10 Feats were Stunning Fist, Deflect Arrows, Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse. Available resources were: Eberron Campaign Setting, Races of Eberron, XPH and Complete Psionic/Adventurer/Arcane/Divine/Warrior. given those constraints....Monastic training would be useful...possibly like this: Kalashtar Monk 1...................... Monastic Training(Warmind)(bonus), Dodge Monk 2...................... Combat Reflexes(bonus) Monk 3...................... Weapon Finnesse Monk 4 Monk 5 Warmind 1................. feat Warmind 2 Warmind 3 Warmind 4................. feat Warmind 5 Warmind 6 Warmind 7................. feat Warmind 8 Warmind 9 Monk 6....................... Imp Trip(bonus),feat Monk 7 Monk 8 Monk 9....................... feat Monk 10 Monk 11 :D |
| Batshido04-22-07, 03:46 PM | It looks like this thread may have died already, but I dug out some of my old notes and I've got some builds that could be used as inspiration for those new to the whole Psionic Monk thing. Psionic Charger Build Required Stats: Strength 13. High Wis extremely useful. Books Required: PHB, Complete Warrior, Complete Adventurer, XHB, Eberron Campaign Setting, Secrets of Sarlona Build: Human 1.Monk 1- Stunning Fist(b), Power Attack, Flying Kick 2.Monk 2- Monastic Training: Psychic Warrior(b) 3.Monk 3- Powerful Charge 4.Monk 4 5.Psychic Warrior 1- Improved Bull Rush(b) 6.Psychic Warrior 2- Greater Powerful Charge, Tashalatora: Psychic Warrior 7.Psychic Warrior 3 8.Psychic Warrior 4- Psionic Lion's Charge 9.Psychic Warrior 5- Shock Trooper(b), Leap Attack 10.Psychic Warrior 6 11.Psychic Warrior 7 12.Psychic Warrior 8- Speed of Thought(b), Psionic Charge This build is pretty simple. It is based on the concept of building aggregate damage from multiple attacks on a successful charge. It doesn't hit as hard as the traditional Uber-Charger builds, but it has powers left over to be more than a one trick pony and it has a better skill selection than might otherwise be the case, thanks to the monk levels in the beginning. This build only goes to 12 because that's when I was forced to stop playing it. My DM was tired of the BBEG being just a speed bump between me and the loot. ;) One possible addition to this build could be an Expanded Knowledge: Dimension Hop. The ability to, as a swift action, get back out to charge range would definitely increase the combat staying power of the build. You wouldn't be able to manifest both Dimension Hop and Psionic Lion's Charge in the same turn, but you can't have everything. Disciple of Battle Required Stats: Dex 13, Strength 13, Intelligence 10.High Wisdom is always nice. Books Required: PHB, XHB, Complete Warrior, Complete Psionics, PHB2, Races of Eberron, Eberron Campaign Setting, Secrets of Sarlona, Unearthed Arcana Build: Kalashtar 1.Monk (Sleeping Tiger School) 1- Weapon Finesse(b), Dodge 2.Kalashtar Monk 2- Psionic Weapon(b) 3.Monk 3- Monastic Training: Elocator 4.Fighter 1- Mobility 5.Fighter 2- Spring Attack 6.War Mind 1- Elusive Target 7.Elocator 1- Sidestep Charge(b) 8.Elocator 2 9.Elocator 3- Talashatora: Elocator 10.Elocator 4 11.Elocator 5 12.Elocator 6- Combat Reflexes 13.Elocator 7 14.Elocator 8 15.Fist of Dal Quor 1- Bounding Assault 16.Elocator 9 17.Fist of Dal Quor 2 18.Fist of Dal Quor 3- Greater Psionic Weapon 19.Fist of Dal Quor 4 20.Fist of Dal Quor 5 This was a build for a lower powered campaign. I wanted to play what I thought of as a Kalashtar warrior, complete with psionic abilities and ridiculous mobility, all complimented by a psychically charged weapon. It's not the most optimized build, but it can easily be used as a chassis for a tighter build. Master of the Death Touch Required Stats: Dexterity 15. High Wisdom is Crucial. Books Required: PHB, XHB, Complete Psionics, Complete Warrior, PHB2, Races of Eberron, Eberron Campaign Setting, Secrets of Sarlona, Tome of Battle, Sandstorm Build: Kalashtar 1. Kalashtar Monk 1- Stunning Fist(b), Ability Focus: Stunning Fist 2.Kalashtar Monk 2- Any Psionic Feat(b) 3.Monk 3- Extra Stunning 4.Monk 4 5.Fighter 1- Improved Initiative(b) 6.Fist of Dal Quor 1- Rattlesnake Strike 7.Fighter 2- Rapid Stunning 8.Feat Rogue 1- Two Weapon Fighting 9.Sword Sage 1- Discipline Focus: Tiger Claw Weapons(b), Flensing Strike 10.Sword Sage 2 11.Shadow Sun Ninja 1 12.Shadow Sun Ninja 2- Ascetic Rogue 13.Feat Rogue 2- Weapon Finesse 14.Fist of Dal Quor 2 15.Fist of Dal Quor 3- Hazing Strike 16.Fist of Dal Quor 4 17.Fist of Dal Quor 5 18.Sword Sage 3- Rapid Stunning 19.Blood Claw Master 1 20.Blood Claw Master 2 Manuevers Known: Wolf Fang Strike, Flesh Ripper, Dancing Mongoose, Cloak of Deception, Strength Draining Strike, Assassin's Stance, Baffling Defense, Devastating Throw, Hand of Death BAB: 15, Stuns per day: 15. Plus a lot of ways to debuff opponents. This build was a result of a friend of mine telling me that Stunning Fist was a “waste of precious space on a character sheet.” It is designed to get the most for every Stunning attack, and be able to captalize once they are stunned. There's no feeling quite like engaging an opponent, full attacking and then going invisible and hiding to let their Con hit 0 and kill them. The build itself does include a bit of a DM fiat: Tashalatora increases your Flurry of Blows ability as you level in a Psionic Class, but a Kalashtar Monk doesn't have Flurry of Blows. Since they have an ability that replaces Flurry of Blows, it doesn't technically increase due to Tashalatora. Any reasonable DM will probably allow the replacement ability to increase whenever Flurry would have, though. Even if they don't it's not crucial to the build. It's just nice to be able to nearly ensure your Stunning Attacks are going to hit. Yoda Required Stats: Dex 13. The higher your Wisdom the better. Books Required: PHB, XHB, Complete Psionics, PHB2, Races of the Wild, Eberron Campaign Setting, Secrets of Sarlona, Unearthed Arcana, PHB2, Improved Scoundrel Build: Halfling 1.Halfling Monk (Cobra Strike School) 1- Dodge(b), Monastic Training: Slayer 2.Halfling Monk 2- Weapon Finesse(b) 3.Monk 3- Mobility 4.Ranger 1- Track 5.Ardent 1- Force and Freedom Mantles 6.Ardent 2- Conflict Mantle, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus: Any finessable Monk Weapon(b) 7.Slayer 1 8.Slayer 2 9.Slayer 3- Tashalatora: Slayer 10.Slayer 4 11.Slayer 5 12.Slayer 6- Elusive Target 13.Slayer 7 14.Slayer 8 15.Slayer 9- Bounding Assault 16.Fighter 1- Einhander(b) 17.Slayer 10 18.Fighter 2- Improved Skirmish, Combat Reflexes(b) 19.Ardent 3 20.Ranger 2- Rapid Shot(b) Powers Known: Dimension Hop, Force Screen, Hustle, Offensive Prescience, Psionic Lion's Charge, Ethereal Volley, Telekinetic Force, Psionic Fly, Telekinetic Manuever, Psionic Teleport, Psychic Crush, Concussive Detonation, Evade Burst This build is the culmination (so far) of my experience playing Psionic Monks. I have never enjoyed playing a character from 1 to 20 quite as much as this one. The build is sound, I have answers for almost anything I come across and it's just a blast to play. One thing I really like about this build is how modular it really is. Very little of it's power depends on the order in which you take specific levels or feats. If you wanted to concentrate on being a mobile shuriken chucker early, take your second Ranger level at 5. If you want to put more emphasis on your mobile fighting style, take one or even both levels of fighter to get those all important feats. Even the Mantles you select can be altered significantly, though these three dovetail almost perfectly in terms of when they get useful powers and the fact that they are front loaded to the point where another level of Ardent in the build would be a little silly. This build requires the same fiat as the last one; your DM letting you advance the Skirmish you get in place of Flurry for your racial sub levels. I have a hard time believing that any half way reasonable DM would deny you it, but if it's not possible the build will suffer big time. There are some ways around that, though. First, You could actually take a level of scout at some point. It will hurt your BAB in the end, but the extra Skirmish damage to qualify for Improved Skirmish is probably worth it. Second, You could take Swift Hunter in place of another feat. If your DM is a stickler for RAW and won't let you advance Skirmish through Tashalatora, then Swift Hunter will take care of it. By Raw, your one level of Ranger could stack with your 0 levels of Scout to give you 1 level of Skirmish ability. Like I said, hopefully it won't come to that, but the build could be salvaged anyway. |
| carnivore04-23-07, 04:45 PM | will coment later :D |