Mountain Rage and Expansion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mountain Rage and Expansion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ToastedAmphibian
10-19-07, 07:10 PM Goliaths have a barbarian racial substitution level in races of stone that gives an ability called "Mountain Rage". Basically, when your rageing, instead of having powerfull build, you actually become large. Aka, your character gets a few inches taller and gains reach. None of your items change, because you gained so little in size that they still fit you fine. (You where so close to being large anyways) Being a rage, this is an (Ex) ability. Would this work with expansion?

Also, can you manifest during a rage? Im guessing not, probably takes mental focus or something ( :} ) but just thought I'd ask. (A Goliath PsiWarrior Barbarian could be fun)
Salla
10-19-07, 07:28 PM Goliaths have a barbarian racial substitution level in races of stone that gives an ability called "Mountain Rage". Basically, when your rageing, instead of having powerfull build, you actually become large. Aka, your character gets a few inches taller and gains reach. None of your items change, because you gained so little in size that they still fit you fine. (You where so close to being large anyways) Being a rage, this is an (Ex) ability. Would this work with expansion?

I don't THINK so. To the extent of my knowledge, size effects never stack. I recommend waiting for a more knowledgeable (sp?) poster to swing by, though.

Also, can you manifest during a rage? Im guessing not, probably takes mental focus or something ( :} ) but just thought I'd ask. (A Goliath PsiWarrior Barbarian could be fun)

Nope, it's just like spellcasting. You can, of course, manifest buffs on yourself *then* rage.
CrimsonDeath
10-19-07, 10:03 PM What Salla said. Expansion doesn't stack with other effects that increase size... so if you did manifest Expansion and then Rage, all that would happen is that you'd lose Powerful Build (and probably then be unable to wield your weapon, since it would be sized for a Huge creature at that point).
ToastedAmphibian
10-19-07, 10:37 PM Heh, ya, i was afraid of that. Kinda sucks though, beign an extrodinary ability and all, im notg really doubling my dimensions and such. Ohwell, i guess ill just have to be content with being a huge creature that weighs more than any ohter huge creature in the history of existence....
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi
10-20-07, 10:06 AM Although I don't believe the size increases would stack, I know of a feat - Righteous Fury (BoED?) that allows you to maintain your ability to concentrate (and hence manifest powers) during a rage. So if you like the barbarian/psychic warrior route, there you go. Besides, even if they don't stack, being able to use Mountain Rage saves you one power known, a handful of power points (depending on how often you would manifest expansion), and an action. Decent trade off, if you ask me. Although you do take that hit to manifester level and power points.
PhaedrusXY
10-21-07, 11:57 AM Arguably you could also manifest powers via Schism while raging, but it would require the DM to intepret the wording of Schism a certain (not unreasonable) way. There is a link to an old thread on that in my sig.
Prime32
10-21-07, 12:31 PM Your best bet is to take the Rage Mage PrC (Complete Warrior) and do it magically.
CrimsonDeath
10-21-07, 03:35 PM Your best bet is to take the Rage Mage PrC (Complete Warrior) and do it magically.

I wonder how well the Rage Mage would work if it were adapted into a Barbarian/Wilder combo.
chicgeek
10-22-07, 05:09 PM Ugh. Rage Mage is horrible. Half-caster progression and restricted spell list make that class miserable no matter how cool the concept is.
CrimsonDeath
10-22-07, 06:15 PM I know half spellcasting is generally bad, but where are you seeing a restriction on the spell list?
chicgeek
10-22-07, 08:53 PM Hmmm... I phrased that a bit incoherently.

Spell rage grants Character Level as Caster Level when casting from abjuration, conjuration, evocation, necromancy, or transmutation schools. Otherwise you use your gimped Caster Level. I basically considered that a restricted list.

The other issue would be classifying powers into spell schools. It'd be awesome of manifest Character Level Telepathy/Mind-Affecting Save or Suck powers (which, I guess, would be Illusion equivalent) between greatsword power attacks.
Prime32
10-23-07, 02:12 PM Subtly manipulating an opponent's mind while in a screaming frenzy just... doesn't seem right, chicgeek...
CrimsonDeath
10-23-07, 02:57 PM Hmmm... I phrased that a bit incoherently.

Spell rage grants Character Level as Caster Level when casting from abjuration, conjuration, evocation, necromancy, or transmutation schools. Otherwise you use your gimped Caster Level. I basically considered that a restricted list.

The other issue would be classifying powers into spell schools. It'd be awesome of manifest Character Level Telepathy/Mind-Affecting Save or Suck powers (which, I guess, would be Illusion equivalent) between greatsword power attacks.

According to the XPH, Metacreativity, Psychokinesis, and Psychometabolism are the equivalents of Conjuration, Evocation, and Transmutation, respectively, while Abjuration and Necromancy have no equivalent disciplines.
InkBlot
10-23-07, 03:07 PM Subtly manipulating an opponent's mind while in a screaming frenzy just... doesn't seem right, chicgeek...

Who says your screaming in frenzy? Who says you're being subtle about it? You're channeling vast reserves of mental energy produced by extreme emotion. Haven't you seen Carrie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrie_%28film%29)? Everybody knows that pushing a psychic into an emotionally unstable mental state only makes them more powerful, by removing the subconcious limits they've careful erected around their powers. See also, Jean Grey in X-Men: The Last Stand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmen_3), or Akira (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_%28manga%29).

Although it might be cool the other way around. Where instead of using rage to enhance your powers, you use your powers to enhance your rage, via psychometabolic self-buffs.
chicgeek
10-23-07, 03:35 PM Hear, hear, Inkblot! I was thinking of powers like Psychic Blast/Crush, Hostile Empathic Transfer, Crisis of Breath/Life, Cloud Mind, etc. But you're right, Psychometabolism is built for that kind of thing--it just takes FOREVER to buff.

Right now, I'm playing a Egoist 10 and most of my power points are spent making my powers swift--so I can either tank, attack or manipulate the battlefield on the fly.
Tordak
10-23-07, 03:42 PM If you expand then rage, I agree the effect would not stack because the mountain rage ability state that it make you large. If it was the other way around (rage the expand, through some of the mean you guys described so far), then I think the effect would work, because expansion simply makes you larger, one size category larger. I couldn't find any reason why it wouldn't in the rules.
Eerongal
10-23-07, 04:01 PM If you expand then rage, I agree the effect would not stack because the mountain rage ability state that it make you large. If it was the other way around (rage the expand, through some of the mean you guys described so far), then I think the effect would work, because expansion simply makes you larger, one size category larger. I couldn't find any reason why it wouldn't in the rules.

Both expansion and enlarge person contain a clause about stacking size modifing abilities. Enlarge person says that no two magical effects can be stacked, expansion says that no two effects that increase size category can be stacked
Tordak
10-23-07, 04:25 PM Other psionic or magical properties are not affected by this power. Any affected item that leaves your possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage (projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them). Multiple effects that increase size do not stack, which means (among other things) that you can’t use a second manifestation of this power to further expand yourself.

You're right, I made a mistake, I didn't read the whole thing. I guess this answers the original question.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ToastedAmphibian 10-19-07, 07:10 PM	Goliaths have a barbarian racial substitution level in races of stone that gives an ability called "Mountain Rage". Basically, when your rageing, instead of having powerfull build, you actually become large. Aka, your character gets a few inches taller and gains reach. None of your items change, because you gained so little in size that they still fit you fine. (You where so close to being large anyways) Being a rage, this is an (Ex) ability. Would this work with expansion? Also, can you manifest during a rage? Im guessing not, probably takes mental focus or something ( :} ) but just thought I'd ask. (A Goliath PsiWarrior Barbarian could be fun)
Salla 10-19-07, 07:28 PM	Goliaths have a barbarian racial substitution level in races of stone that gives an ability called "Mountain Rage". Basically, when your rageing, instead of having powerfull build, you actually become large. Aka, your character gets a few inches taller and gains reach. None of your items change, because you gained so little in size that they still fit you fine. (You where so close to being large anyways) Being a rage, this is an (Ex) ability. Would this work with expansion? I don't THINK so. To the extent of my knowledge, size effects never stack. I recommend waiting for a more knowledgeable (sp?) poster to swing by, though. Also, can you manifest during a rage? Im guessing not, probably takes mental focus or something ( :} ) but just thought I'd ask. (A Goliath PsiWarrior Barbarian could be fun) Nope, it's just like spellcasting. You can, of course, manifest buffs on yourself then rage.
CrimsonDeath 10-19-07, 10:03 PM	What Salla said. Expansion doesn't stack with other effects that increase size... so if you did manifest Expansion and then Rage, all that would happen is that you'd lose Powerful Build (and probably then be unable to wield your weapon, since it would be sized for a Huge creature at that point).
ToastedAmphibian 10-19-07, 10:37 PM	Heh, ya, i was afraid of that. Kinda sucks though, beign an extrodinary ability and all, im notg really doubling my dimensions and such. Ohwell, i guess ill just have to be content with being a huge creature that weighs more than any ohter huge creature in the history of existence....
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 10-20-07, 10:06 AM	Although I don't believe the size increases would stack, I know of a feat - Righteous Fury (BoED?) that allows you to maintain your ability to concentrate (and hence manifest powers) during a rage. So if you like the barbarian/psychic warrior route, there you go. Besides, even if they don't stack, being able to use Mountain Rage saves you one power known, a handful of power points (depending on how often you would manifest expansion), and an action. Decent trade off, if you ask me. Although you do take that hit to manifester level and power points.
PhaedrusXY 10-21-07, 11:57 AM	Arguably you could also manifest powers via Schism while raging, but it would require the DM to intepret the wording of Schism a certain (not unreasonable) way. There is a link to an old thread on that in my sig.
Prime32 10-21-07, 12:31 PM	Your best bet is to take the Rage Mage PrC (Complete Warrior) and do it magically.
CrimsonDeath 10-21-07, 03:35 PM	Your best bet is to take the Rage Mage PrC (Complete Warrior) and do it magically. I wonder how well the Rage Mage would work if it were adapted into a Barbarian/Wilder combo.
chicgeek 10-22-07, 05:09 PM	Ugh. Rage Mage is horrible. Half-caster progression and restricted spell list make that class miserable no matter how cool the concept is.
CrimsonDeath 10-22-07, 06:15 PM	I know half spellcasting is generally bad, but where are you seeing a restriction on the spell list?
chicgeek 10-22-07, 08:53 PM	Hmmm... I phrased that a bit incoherently. Spell rage grants Character Level as Caster Level when casting from abjuration, conjuration, evocation, necromancy, or transmutation schools. Otherwise you use your gimped Caster Level. I basically considered that a restricted list. The other issue would be classifying powers into spell schools. It'd be awesome of manifest Character Level Telepathy/Mind-Affecting Save or Suck powers (which, I guess, would be Illusion equivalent) between greatsword power attacks.
Prime32 10-23-07, 02:12 PM	Subtly manipulating an opponent's mind while in a screaming frenzy just... doesn't seem right, chicgeek...
CrimsonDeath 10-23-07, 02:57 PM	Hmmm... I phrased that a bit incoherently. Spell rage grants Character Level as Caster Level when casting from abjuration, conjuration, evocation, necromancy, or transmutation schools. Otherwise you use your gimped Caster Level. I basically considered that a restricted list. The other issue would be classifying powers into spell schools. It'd be awesome of manifest Character Level Telepathy/Mind-Affecting Save or Suck powers (which, I guess, would be Illusion equivalent) between greatsword power attacks. According to the XPH, Metacreativity, Psychokinesis, and Psychometabolism are the equivalents of Conjuration, Evocation, and Transmutation, respectively, while Abjuration and Necromancy have no equivalent disciplines.
InkBlot 10-23-07, 03:07 PM	Subtly manipulating an opponent's mind while in a screaming frenzy just... doesn't seem right, chicgeek... Who says your screaming in frenzy? Who says you're being subtle about it? You're channeling vast reserves of mental energy produced by extreme emotion. Haven't you seen Carrie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrie_%28film%29)? Everybody knows that pushing a psychic into an emotionally unstable mental state only makes them more powerful, by removing the subconcious limits they've careful erected around their powers. See also, Jean Grey in X-Men: The Last Stand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmen_3), or Akira (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_%28manga%29). Although it might be cool the other way around. Where instead of using rage to enhance your powers, you use your powers to enhance your rage, via psychometabolic self-buffs.
chicgeek 10-23-07, 03:35 PM	Hear, hear, Inkblot! I was thinking of powers like Psychic Blast/Crush, Hostile Empathic Transfer, Crisis of Breath/Life, Cloud Mind, etc. But you're right, Psychometabolism is built for that kind of thing--it just takes FOREVER to buff. Right now, I'm playing a Egoist 10 and most of my power points are spent making my powers swift--so I can either tank, attack or manipulate the battlefield on the fly.
Tordak 10-23-07, 03:42 PM	If you expand then rage, I agree the effect would not stack because the mountain rage ability state that it make you large. If it was the other way around (rage the expand, through some of the mean you guys described so far), then I think the effect would work, because expansion simply makes you larger, one size category larger. I couldn't find any reason why it wouldn't in the rules.
Eerongal 10-23-07, 04:01 PM	If you expand then rage, I agree the effect would not stack because the mountain rage ability state that it make you large. If it was the other way around (rage the expand, through some of the mean you guys described so far), then I think the effect would work, because expansion simply makes you larger, one size category larger. I couldn't find any reason why it wouldn't in the rules. Both expansion and enlarge person contain a clause about stacking size modifing abilities. Enlarge person says that no two magical effects can be stacked, expansion says that no two effects that increase size category can be stacked
Tordak 10-23-07, 04:25 PM	Other psionic or magical properties are not affected by this power. Any affected item that leaves your possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage (projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them). Multiple effects that increase size do not stack, which means (among other things) that you can’t use a second manifestation of this power to further expand yourself. You're right, I made a mistake, I didn't read the whole thing. I guess this answers the original question.