Moving from 6 to 7 PrC Constructor or Single class? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Moving from 6 to 7 PrC Constructor or Single class? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cravin
03-01-08, 04:18 AM My shaper is to be leveled up from level 6 to level 7. My question: Do I take the PrC Constructor (I bet lycanthromancer [herby known as 'L-man' because I am incredibly lazy] will say PrC : P) or continue foreward as a shaper?

My feat selection so far has been
1: Boost construct
1(bonus):Ectopic form: Alabaster Aerial
3:Metapower: Extend power (My dm overlooked the fact that I have no other metapsionic feats Overlooked as in He pre-okayed it. Asking goes a long way)
5(bonus):Overchannel
6: Psionic meditation

Uhg. How in Ra's name do you make it a spoiler tag?
Now, before we get things going. READ THIS PLEASE I found that Psionic meditation will almost never be used by me. I basically Summon an extended construct then spam summoning constructs after that. I find it pointless to summon a construct every other turn at double the length, than to summon the individuals which I will be sending out twice the amount instead of usining Meditation to refocus and wait til next turn. It DOES give me an option to use one of my few offensive powers in between castings or one of my utility powers. But Really, in battle I feel like I will almost never use Psionic meditation. If anyone has any reason why I should keep this feat please let me know.

BECAUSE - my DM has said If I wish to change it, I can, since i havent used it yet, it has had no input or changed the game in any way, if I desire I can change it.

I was thinking Skin of the construct (Ignoring that bit of errata nonsense, as does my dm) or Ectopic form:Anathamec Carapice.

If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know

Now that that is out of the way. I think I should wait until I can summon LVL 4 Astral constructs in order to take the PrC otherwise I am not gaining my 4th level powers this level and I feel like I will fall a little behind in the power of the party. I think level 9 will be the optimum level to take the PrC.

I would Like L-man's input specifically, but I want to hear everyone else's as well.

Thank you in advance.
Lycanthromancer
03-01-08, 09:38 AM First of all, you are right about my suggestion of the 3.5 Constructor (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b). If you utilize astral construct almost exclusively, this prestige class is a perfect fit for you (especially if you want to forego level 4 constructs, as you lose a Manifester Level upon entering your first level of Constructor).

Since you like 'spamming astral constructs' during a fight, both the Enhanced Construction and Quickened Construction will come into play, as you'll be able to toss out up to 4 constructs with one manifestation, and up to 8 mini-constructs a round (using both abilities in tandem). I know this usually slows down play, but if you use them all more as a swarm (ie, they all move together and use the same actions each round, especially Aid Another for your party's rogue or tank), the other players will love you for it. Be a team player!

As for feats...by all that is holy, get rid of your ectopic feats! Please! They're nice for the first few levels, but after you reach levels 5 or 6, a regular astral construct is better, especially since the ectopic forms benefit neither from menu abilities, nor from the Boost Construct feat (bad,bad,bad,bad,bad!). They get worse and worse compared to a normal construct with normal feat options, and if you actually HAVE Boost Construct, this gulf widens. Hire a psion to manifest psychic reformation or use the retraining rules in the PHB2, replace Ectopic Form with Link Power, and use Psionic Meditation to Link astral constructs together to simulate your soon-to-be Enhanced Construction ability. Link two manifestations of astral construct together, and you can have more Aid Another-y constructs at your beck and call (they'll be slightly weaker than otherwise, but spending 2 pp on 2 Small ACs will make you great as a support character). You'll definitely use Psionic Meditation then!

If you do take Constructor, go all the way. Take all 10 levels. Your constructs will be awesome, and you'll have plenty of uses for really long-lasting constructs. Constructs with a 1 min/lvl duration, or utility constructs, make great mounts, especially when Extended; and, if you're small, you can even use weaker constructs to get the job done.

PS: Spoiler blocks are .

And call me Ly, if you like.
Cravin
03-04-08, 12:26 AM Well, I decided to wait until my constructs can be level 4 before I take levels in the PrC. Also because I wanted access to my 4th level powers. So next time we level (we are playing a fast pace game) I will be taking the PrC. I really like it. Thanks Ly.
AntiDjinn
03-04-08, 03:29 AM In almost every case, if you are shooting for a PrC you are better off entering the PrC as early as possible. The first level abilities of a PrC are generally balanced to be on par with characters just at or above the level where the prereqs can be met. The 1st level abilities that would be impressive and useful at character level 6 might be less so if you first take the class at level 12. To put that another way: if you are looking at going from level 11 to 12 in a base class the first level abilities of a PrC you could have qualified at level 6 are going to look very weak.
Also, taking a PrC early takes advantage of the front-loading effect of the class' good save(s). If you take an added level in your existing class, each of your saves improves by +1 or +0, but with the 1st level of a PrC at least 1 save improves by +2. If you reach 10/10 in both classes your saves will be the same regardless of the order in which you added them, but having the PrC early means you actually enjoy the benefit of the good save boost earlier. From a BAB standpoint, for classes that don't have the fighter progression, it is best to have your levels in multiples of 4 (but you don't have to add them in stacks of 4 in order).

In the case of shaper/constructor it matters little because you can add levels in either class once you get started and they synergize well. If you take Constructor 1 next you are just 1 character level away from adding another level of shaper to get level 4 constructs.
Omen_of_Peace
03-04-08, 04:12 AM Also consider the 5th level alternate class feature for the Shaper (in the Mind's Eye online column) to quicken the creation of a pre-determined AC.
hogarth
03-04-08, 07:17 AM By the way, I like the Astral Zealot and Dream Keeper classes from Hyperconscious more than the Constructor. You might want to check them out.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cravin 03-01-08, 04:18 AM	My shaper is to be leveled up from level 6 to level 7. My question: Do I take the PrC Constructor (I bet lycanthromancer [herby known as 'L-man' because I am incredibly lazy] will say PrC : P) or continue foreward as a shaper? My feat selection so far has been 1: Boost construct 1(bonus):Ectopic form: Alabaster Aerial 3:Metapower: Extend power (My dm overlooked the fact that I have no other metapsionic feats Overlooked as in He pre-okayed it. Asking goes a long way) 5(bonus):Overchannel 6: Psionic meditation Uhg. How in Ra's name do you make it a spoiler tag? Now, before we get things going. READ THIS PLEASE I found that Psionic meditation will almost never be used by me. I basically Summon an extended construct then spam summoning constructs after that. I find it pointless to summon a construct every other turn at double the length, than to summon the individuals which I will be sending out twice the amount instead of usining Meditation to refocus and wait til next turn. It DOES give me an option to use one of my few offensive powers in between castings or one of my utility powers. But Really, in battle I feel like I will almost never use Psionic meditation. If anyone has any reason why I should keep this feat please let me know. BECAUSE - my DM has said If I wish to change it, I can, since i havent used it yet, it has had no input or changed the game in any way, if I desire I can change it. I was thinking Skin of the construct (Ignoring that bit of errata nonsense, as does my dm) or Ectopic form:Anathamec Carapice. If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know Now that that is out of the way. I think I should wait until I can summon LVL 4 Astral constructs in order to take the PrC otherwise I am not gaining my 4th level powers this level and I feel like I will fall a little behind in the power of the party. I think level 9 will be the optimum level to take the PrC. I would Like L-man's input specifically, but I want to hear everyone else's as well. Thank you in advance.
Lycanthromancer 03-01-08, 09:38 AM	First of all, you are right about my suggestion of the 3.5 Constructor (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b). If you utilize astral construct almost exclusively, this prestige class is a perfect fit for you (especially if you want to forego level 4 constructs, as you lose a Manifester Level upon entering your first level of Constructor). Since you like 'spamming astral constructs' during a fight, both the Enhanced Construction and Quickened Construction will come into play, as you'll be able to toss out up to 4 constructs with one manifestation, and up to 8 mini-constructs a round (using both abilities in tandem). I know this usually slows down play, but if you use them all more as a swarm (ie, they all move together and use the same actions each round, especially Aid Another for your party's rogue or tank), the other players will love you for it. Be a team player! As for feats...by all that is holy, get rid of your ectopic feats! Please! They're nice for the first few levels, but after you reach levels 5 or 6, a regular astral construct is better, especially since the ectopic forms benefit neither from menu abilities, nor from the Boost Construct feat (bad,bad,bad,bad,bad!). They get worse and worse compared to a normal construct with normal feat options, and if you actually HAVE Boost Construct, this gulf widens. Hire a psion to manifest psychic reformation or use the retraining rules in the PHB2, replace Ectopic Form with Link Power, and use Psionic Meditation to Link astral constructs together to simulate your soon-to-be Enhanced Construction ability. Link two manifestations of astral construct together, and you can have more Aid Another-y constructs at your beck and call (they'll be slightly weaker than otherwise, but spending 2 pp on 2 Small ACs will make you great as a support character). You'll definitely use Psionic Meditation then! If you do take Constructor, go all the way. Take all 10 levels. Your constructs will be awesome, and you'll have plenty of uses for really long-lasting constructs. Constructs with a 1 min/lvl duration, or utility constructs, make great mounts, especially when Extended; and, if you're small, you can even use weaker constructs to get the job done. PS: Spoiler blocks are . And call me Ly, if you like.
Cravin 03-04-08, 12:26 AM	Well, I decided to wait until my constructs can be level 4 before I take levels in the PrC. Also because I wanted access to my 4th level powers. So next time we level (we are playing a fast pace game) I will be taking the PrC. I really like it. Thanks Ly.
AntiDjinn 03-04-08, 03:29 AM	In almost every case, if you are shooting for a PrC you are better off entering the PrC as early as possible. The first level abilities of a PrC are generally balanced to be on par with characters just at or above the level where the prereqs can be met. The 1st level abilities that would be impressive and useful at character level 6 might be less so if you first take the class at level 12. To put that another way: if you are looking at going from level 11 to 12 in a base class the first level abilities of a PrC you could have qualified at level 6 are going to look very weak. Also, taking a PrC early takes advantage of the front-loading effect of the class' good save(s). If you take an added level in your existing class, each of your saves improves by +1 or +0, but with the 1st level of a PrC at least 1 save improves by +2. If you reach 10/10 in both classes your saves will be the same regardless of the order in which you added them, but having the PrC early means you actually enjoy the benefit of the good save boost earlier. From a BAB standpoint, for classes that don't have the fighter progression, it is best to have your levels in multiples of 4 (but you don't have to add them in stacks of 4 in order). In the case of shaper/constructor it matters little because you can add levels in either class once you get started and they synergize well. If you take Constructor 1 next you are just 1 character level away from adding another level of shaper to get level 4 constructs.
Omen_of_Peace 03-04-08, 04:12 AM	Also consider the 5th level alternate class feature for the Shaper (in the Mind's Eye online column) to quicken the creation of a pre-determined AC.
hogarth 03-04-08, 07:17 AM	By the way, I like the Astral Zealot and Dream Keeper classes from Hyperconscious more than the Constructor. You might want to check them out.