Multiply Psi crystals? thru feat> [Archive] - Wizards Community

Multiply Psi crystals? thru feat> [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Screams
02-27-08, 02:32 PM Am I thinking broken here?

Player takes Psicrystal Affinity and gets a psicrystal.
Now assuming your dm will allow feats for psicrystals.
Give your psicrystal the psicrystal affinity feat to gain another psicrystal.

I know this probably is not allowed or there is a different interpitation when a psicrystal takes that feat but,
wouldnt that just make unlimited psicrystals?

I am also going to answer my own question... Psions can only have 1 psicrystal?
Bacris
02-27-08, 02:34 PM Psicrystals don't qualify for the "Psicrystal Affinity" feat, because they don't have a manifester level.

Second, you can't take a feat multiple times unless it says you can. :)
CrimsonDeath
02-27-08, 03:16 PM For a more indirect method, however, you could have the Psicrystal take Leadership and attract a cohort and followers with psicrystals. That method isn't infinite, but it does bring a lot of pet rocks to the table.
Lycanthromancer
02-27-08, 03:24 PM It can be infinite if both you and your followers take Improved Psicrystal.
jbsaff
02-27-08, 05:12 PM I thought leadership didn't work for psicrystals since they gain HD, not character levels.
Lycanthromancer
02-27-08, 05:14 PM HD ARE character levels for all purposes.
jbsaff
02-27-08, 05:19 PM Well I guess that would make everything simpler, wouldn't it?
AntiDjinn
02-27-08, 05:45 PM Now assuming your dm will allow feats for psicrystals.
Give your psicrystal the psicrystal affinity feat to gain another psicrystal.

Your psicrystal would need a manifester level to qualify. Once you get past that hurdle, the feat would mean your psicrystal has a psicrystal; all the benefits for having the feat would accrue to the pet rock, not to you. Check the entire book and look for any text that says any feat possessed by your psicrystal becomes your feat. I will save you time: It isn't in there. The benefits of the feat Psicrystal Affinity only apply to the character who actually has the feat, it can't get more simple than that.
starkreality
02-28-08, 12:05 AM Theres a variant feat in XPH, I forget the name. It works like Wild Talent, but it gives you ML 1 and one 1st level power, plus pp. Give that to your psicrystal, and have it take psicrystal affinity when you hit 3 HD.

Now heres a question: if you have a cognizance psicrystal, can your psicrystal use those pp?
Better yet, can your psicrystal store pp in it's own cognizance psicrystal? Can you say infinite pp? Each psicrystal's psicrystal learns a different power, and you are just surrounded by crystals, each of which knows one power and can use it 3 times.
Bacris
02-28-08, 12:27 AM If memory serves, Hidden Talent, the feat you mention, requires a CHA 13. Psicrystals have CHA 10, so until 12th level, that option is out.
starkreality
02-28-08, 12:41 AM hmm... that is quite disappointing...

...can a psicrystal wear a cloak? :D
InkBlot
02-28-08, 12:58 AM Theres a variant feat in XPH, I forget the name. It works like Wild Talent, but it gives you ML 1 and one 1st level power, plus pp. Give that to your psicrystal, and have it take psicrystal affinity when you hit 3 HD.

Hidden Talent, p67 XPH. It doesn't work. Hidden Talent specifically says "this is not a manifester level."

edit: Ya know what's messed up? Psicrystals are not psionic creatures. They don't have the subtype. Some of their abilities are even spell-like!
starkreality
02-28-08, 02:26 AM I think its time this forum makes a variant psicrystal that ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE!!
CrimsonDeath
02-28-08, 03:12 AM Maybe you could give the Psicrystal one of the Host feats from CPsi?
awaken_D_M_golem
02-28-08, 04:06 PM Maybe you could give the Psicrystal one of the Host feats from CPsi !!
:hides:

Oh, and http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/overview.htm#thePsionicSubtype

http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-811923
http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-856014.html
CrimsonDeath
02-28-08, 04:16 PM Oh, and http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/overview.htm#thePsionicSubtype

Okay, yeah. We know what gives someone the (psionic) subtype. Why are you telling us this?
InkBlot
02-28-08, 06:38 PM Host feats are also Psionic feats. You need to have the psionic subtype to take one. Psicrystals don't have the psionic subtype.
calronmoonflower
02-28-08, 08:12 PM Are right.

1. Hidden Talent, as it is better than Wild Talent.
2. a host feat
3. Psicrystal Affinity, the effects of this are based on your psionic class levels. >.<
4. Improved Psicrystal

So your psicrstal would need four feats to do this putting it off to 9th level. However at that point your psicrystal's psicrstal will qualify for the chain.
InkBlot
02-28-08, 08:23 PM EDIT: Blarg. I are stupid.

EDIT#2: OK, so the psicrystal uses the manifester level from it's host feat to qualify for Psicrystal Affinity. ComPsi itself says that psi-like abilities let you qualify for things that require a manifester level (but not things that require you to be able to manifest a certain level of powers). That entry is a copy/paste find/replace from Complete Arcane, so it's a lot more valid than the rest of ComPsi.

Your psicrystal's psicrystal is a barely sentient chunk of rock. Your psicrystal doesn't have any psionic class levels, so the psicrystal's psicrystal doesn't get anything on the Psicrystal Special Abilities table. It doesn't grant Alertness, it doesn't have Improved Evasion, it can't move, it can't share powers, it doesn't have a telepathic link, it doesn't have a personality. It can't even see.

Your psicrystal's psicrystal also has 0 hit dice. Can a creature even exist with 0 hit dice?

EDIT#3: It's nice to know that Host feats, or any other psi-like ability, allow a single-classed Soulknife to get a Psicrystal.
CrimsonDeath
02-28-08, 10:04 PM Your psicrystal's psicrystal also has 0 hit dice. Can a creature even exist with 0 hit dice?
No, its HD are the same as your Psicrystal's HD, which are the same as your HD.

More problematic is the fact that your Psicrystal's Psicrystal's HP are half your Psicrystal's HP, which are half your HP.
CrimsonDeath
02-28-08, 10:13 PM Stupid slow servers making me double-post...
Bacris
02-28-08, 10:35 PM Again, Hidden Talent only works if you are 12th level and have put all your psicrystal's ability score increases into CHA :)

Below that, it does not qualify.
InkBlot
02-28-08, 11:31 PM No, its HD are the same as your Psicrystal's HD, which are the same as your HD.

It only counts hit dice gained from levels in Psion or Wilder. XPH page 207. Your psicrystal doesn't have any levels in Psion or Wilder, so your psicrystal's psicrystal doesn't have any hit dice.
AntiDjinn
02-29-08, 12:27 AM And all this effort for a 12th level psion would amount to what? Your pet rock gets +3 on its craft checks? Or +2 on the Fortitude checks it almost never has to make? If your psicrystal has a feat all the benefits of the feat that refer to "you" refer to the crystal. So if your pet rock has a pet rock and Psicrystal Containment, then it can store a focus in its own crystal. By 12th level you had better be able to pull off more than parlor tricks. If you are pushing teen levels, are stumped as to how to spend your character resources, and are reaching for CPsi, then you may already be gimped.
InkBlot
02-29-08, 02:41 AM If the limitation of only psion/wilder HD counting is ignored/bypassed/overruled, then you could flood the world with psicrystals. It would be a neat and silly trick, like a lot of things on the Theoretical Optimization board.
CrimsonDeath
02-29-08, 03:39 AM It only counts hit dice gained from levels in Psion or Wilder. XPH page 207. Your psicrystal doesn't have any levels in Psion or Wilder, so your psicrystal's psicrystal doesn't have any hit dice.

Ah, I missed that.

Well, in that case, your psicrystal's psicrystal would automatically die, since it has no HD (or, more precisely, because it has negative levels equal to its HD).

And apparently, the same is true of a single-class Soulknife, Psychic Warrior, Ardent, or Divine Mind who takes Psicrystal Affinity.
InkBlot
02-29-08, 01:48 PM I'm not so sure. How do fractional hit dice work? Could it be said that the psicrystal's psicrystal has 0/0* hit dice?

Also, the Improved Psicrystal feat would give your psicrystal's psicrystal a personality. The rules on psicrystals are so wonky, that I'm not even sure Improved Psicrystal wouldn't let your psicrystal use it's manifester level instead of it's psionic class levels to determine the ability's of it's psicrystal.

*I wish I hadn't slept through calculus.
CrimsonDeath
02-29-08, 01:52 PM I'm not so sure. How do fractional hit dice work? Could it be said that the psicrystal's psicrystal has 0/0* hit dice?

It could be said, but I'm not sure it would be true. (And calculus wouldn't help unless you had a function that let you arrive at that particular number, so you could take a limit. 0/0 is higher math than I've ever had to deal with. In this context, the expression is probably meaningless.)
awaken_D_M_golem
08-12-08, 08:37 PM bump
Lycanthromancer
08-13-08, 09:28 AM You could always try to incarnate the fission power on your psicrystal. Then you'd have two, and permanently until dismissed/dispelled.
Fabius Maximus
08-16-08, 09:05 AM Just allow taking Psicrystal Affinity more than once. Or go buy The Mind Divine by Dreamscarred Press. It has a feat that does just that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Screams 02-27-08, 02:32 PM	Am I thinking broken here? Player takes Psicrystal Affinity and gets a psicrystal. Now assuming your dm will allow feats for psicrystals. Give your psicrystal the psicrystal affinity feat to gain another psicrystal. I know this probably is not allowed or there is a different interpitation when a psicrystal takes that feat but, wouldnt that just make unlimited psicrystals? I am also going to answer my own question... Psions can only have 1 psicrystal?
Bacris 02-27-08, 02:34 PM	Psicrystals don't qualify for the "Psicrystal Affinity" feat, because they don't have a manifester level. Second, you can't take a feat multiple times unless it says you can. :)
CrimsonDeath 02-27-08, 03:16 PM	For a more indirect method, however, you could have the Psicrystal take Leadership and attract a cohort and followers with psicrystals. That method isn't infinite, but it does bring a lot of pet rocks to the table.
Lycanthromancer 02-27-08, 03:24 PM	It can be infinite if both you and your followers take Improved Psicrystal.
jbsaff 02-27-08, 05:12 PM	I thought leadership didn't work for psicrystals since they gain HD, not character levels.
Lycanthromancer 02-27-08, 05:14 PM	HD ARE character levels for all purposes.
jbsaff 02-27-08, 05:19 PM	Well I guess that would make everything simpler, wouldn't it?
AntiDjinn 02-27-08, 05:45 PM	Now assuming your dm will allow feats for psicrystals. Give your psicrystal the psicrystal affinity feat to gain another psicrystal. Your psicrystal would need a manifester level to qualify. Once you get past that hurdle, the feat would mean your psicrystal has a psicrystal; all the benefits for having the feat would accrue to the pet rock, not to you. Check the entire book and look for any text that says any feat possessed by your psicrystal becomes your feat. I will save you time: It isn't in there. The benefits of the feat Psicrystal Affinity only apply to the character who actually has the feat, it can't get more simple than that.
starkreality 02-28-08, 12:05 AM	Theres a variant feat in XPH, I forget the name. It works like Wild Talent, but it gives you ML 1 and one 1st level power, plus pp. Give that to your psicrystal, and have it take psicrystal affinity when you hit 3 HD. Now heres a question: if you have a cognizance psicrystal, can your psicrystal use those pp? Better yet, can your psicrystal store pp in it's own cognizance psicrystal? Can you say infinite pp? Each psicrystal's psicrystal learns a different power, and you are just surrounded by crystals, each of which knows one power and can use it 3 times.
Bacris 02-28-08, 12:27 AM	If memory serves, Hidden Talent, the feat you mention, requires a CHA 13. Psicrystals have CHA 10, so until 12th level, that option is out.
starkreality 02-28-08, 12:41 AM	hmm... that is quite disappointing... ...can a psicrystal wear a cloak? :D
InkBlot 02-28-08, 12:58 AM	Theres a variant feat in XPH, I forget the name. It works like Wild Talent, but it gives you ML 1 and one 1st level power, plus pp. Give that to your psicrystal, and have it take psicrystal affinity when you hit 3 HD. Hidden Talent, p67 XPH. It doesn't work. Hidden Talent specifically says "this is not a manifester level." edit: Ya know what's messed up? Psicrystals are not psionic creatures. They don't have the subtype. Some of their abilities are even spell-like!
starkreality 02-28-08, 02:26 AM	I think its time this forum makes a variant psicrystal that ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE!!
CrimsonDeath 02-28-08, 03:12 AM	Maybe you could give the Psicrystal one of the Host feats from CPsi?
awaken_D_M_golem 02-28-08, 04:06 PM	Maybe you could give the Psicrystal one of the Host feats from CPsi !! :hides: Oh, and http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/overview.htm#thePsionicSubtype http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-811923 http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-856014.html
CrimsonDeath 02-28-08, 04:16 PM	Oh, and http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/overview.htm#thePsionicSubtype Okay, yeah. We know what gives someone the (psionic) subtype. Why are you telling us this?
InkBlot 02-28-08, 06:38 PM	Host feats are also Psionic feats. You need to have the psionic subtype to take one. Psicrystals don't have the psionic subtype.
calronmoonflower 02-28-08, 08:12 PM	Are right. 1. Hidden Talent, as it is better than Wild Talent. 2. a host feat 3. Psicrystal Affinity, the effects of this are based on your psionic class levels. >.< 4. Improved Psicrystal So your psicrstal would need four feats to do this putting it off to 9th level. However at that point your psicrystal's psicrstal will qualify for the chain.
InkBlot 02-28-08, 08:23 PM	EDIT: Blarg. I are stupid. EDIT#2: OK, so the psicrystal uses the manifester level from it's host feat to qualify for Psicrystal Affinity. ComPsi itself says that psi-like abilities let you qualify for things that require a manifester level (but not things that require you to be able to manifest a certain level of powers). That entry is a copy/paste find/replace from Complete Arcane, so it's a lot more valid than the rest of ComPsi. Your psicrystal's psicrystal is a barely sentient chunk of rock. Your psicrystal doesn't have any psionic class levels, so the psicrystal's psicrystal doesn't get anything on the Psicrystal Special Abilities table. It doesn't grant Alertness, it doesn't have Improved Evasion, it can't move, it can't share powers, it doesn't have a telepathic link, it doesn't have a personality. It can't even see. Your psicrystal's psicrystal also has 0 hit dice. Can a creature even exist with 0 hit dice? EDIT#3: It's nice to know that Host feats, or any other psi-like ability, allow a single-classed Soulknife to get a Psicrystal.
CrimsonDeath 02-28-08, 10:04 PM	Your psicrystal's psicrystal also has 0 hit dice. Can a creature even exist with 0 hit dice? No, its HD are the same as your Psicrystal's HD, which are the same as your HD. More problematic is the fact that your Psicrystal's Psicrystal's HP are half your Psicrystal's HP, which are half your HP.
CrimsonDeath 02-28-08, 10:13 PM	Stupid slow servers making me double-post...
Bacris 02-28-08, 10:35 PM	Again, Hidden Talent only works if you are 12th level and have put all your psicrystal's ability score increases into CHA :) Below that, it does not qualify.
InkBlot 02-28-08, 11:31 PM	No, its HD are the same as your Psicrystal's HD, which are the same as your HD. It only counts hit dice gained from levels in Psion or Wilder. XPH page 207. Your psicrystal doesn't have any levels in Psion or Wilder, so your psicrystal's psicrystal doesn't have any hit dice.
AntiDjinn 02-29-08, 12:27 AM	And all this effort for a 12th level psion would amount to what? Your pet rock gets +3 on its craft checks? Or +2 on the Fortitude checks it almost never has to make? If your psicrystal has a feat all the benefits of the feat that refer to "you" refer to the crystal. So if your pet rock has a pet rock and Psicrystal Containment, then it can store a focus in its own crystal. By 12th level you had better be able to pull off more than parlor tricks. If you are pushing teen levels, are stumped as to how to spend your character resources, and are reaching for CPsi, then you may already be gimped.
InkBlot 02-29-08, 02:41 AM	If the limitation of only psion/wilder HD counting is ignored/bypassed/overruled, then you could flood the world with psicrystals. It would be a neat and silly trick, like a lot of things on the Theoretical Optimization board.
CrimsonDeath 02-29-08, 03:39 AM	It only counts hit dice gained from levels in Psion or Wilder. XPH page 207. Your psicrystal doesn't have any levels in Psion or Wilder, so your psicrystal's psicrystal doesn't have any hit dice. Ah, I missed that. Well, in that case, your psicrystal's psicrystal would automatically die, since it has no HD (or, more precisely, because it has negative levels equal to its HD). And apparently, the same is true of a single-class Soulknife, Psychic Warrior, Ardent, or Divine Mind who takes Psicrystal Affinity.
InkBlot 02-29-08, 01:48 PM	I'm not so sure. How do fractional hit dice work? Could it be said that the psicrystal's psicrystal has 0/0* hit dice? Also, the Improved Psicrystal feat would give your psicrystal's psicrystal a personality. The rules on psicrystals are so wonky, that I'm not even sure Improved Psicrystal wouldn't let your psicrystal use it's manifester level instead of it's psionic class levels to determine the ability's of it's psicrystal. *I wish I hadn't slept through calculus.
CrimsonDeath 02-29-08, 01:52 PM	I'm not so sure. How do fractional hit dice work? Could it be said that the psicrystal's psicrystal has 0/0* hit dice? It could be said, but I'm not sure it would be true. (And calculus wouldn't help unless you had a function that let you arrive at that particular number, so you could take a limit. 0/0 is higher math than I've ever had to deal with. In this context, the expression is probably meaningless.)
awaken_D_M_golem 08-12-08, 08:37 PM	bump
Lycanthromancer 08-13-08, 09:28 AM	You could always try to incarnate the fission power on your psicrystal. Then you'd have two, and permanently until dismissed/dispelled.
Fabius Maximus 08-16-08, 09:05 AM	Just allow taking Psicrystal Affinity more than once. Or go buy The Mind Divine by Dreamscarred Press. It has a feat that does just that.