Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JimProfit 01-11-08, 09:55 PM	I want to try and use quantamn phyiscs with psionics to be /33t. How's this for example... Okay, I put someone in a bag of holding right? (Note, I'm gonna need atleast two people to make this work) I then put myself in the bag of holding so I can target my foe with time hop. I then yell for him to turn the bag inside out. I ofcourse comeout while the person I targeted remains locked somewhere outside of space and time. How can he reappear? Technichaly the space inside the bag does not exsist anymore, it's inside out, when the duration ends, there's nowhere left for him to reappear. The subject reappears in exactly the same orientation and condition as before If that space is gone, there's nowhere he can trigger it. So he's stuck. I'd assume. This would require GM's approval I guess. I'll try to thinkup something more legit later. But for a level 3 power and a bag of holding IV i'd say that's mighty impressive instant-kill, no ressurections, and no saving throw.
JimProfit 01-11-08, 10:05 PM	Another one that might be a good tactic is the immovable rod serving as a more realiable feather fall tool. I could fall from any height and if i press the button when im close to the ground, i'll "stop". I worried about that making me make a strength check or something or my arm breaking lol! But I don't think gravity works that way. I'm being pulled down, so the immovable rod prevents me from being pulled. As such, there's no more gravitational force against me as there would be hanging from a monkey bar. Rod of Holding=5000gold Boots of Levitation=7500
The_Mess 01-11-08, 11:42 PM	Actually, by real physics (if that concept even has any place in the game), the rod of immovability won't save you, at least unless you use it very quickly. Triggering it just before you hit the ground will cause you to hit the rod at full speed. If you're moving at any speed at all, it will tear through your flesh like a large, blunt bullet. And then you'll hit the ground only slightly slowed. In comic books, Superman always catches Lois right before she hits. Too late. She'd be snapped into pieces instead of crushed. Not much of an improvement. The rod would act much the same way, only be even worse since once it's immobile, it *stops*. Superman can at least try and ease her fall by lowering his arms as she falls. And don't you cease awareness when you go into a bag of holding? I thought things stopped. Candles come out still lit and at the same size they went in, etc. Or was that just a house rule for our game?
InkBlot 01-11-08, 11:55 PM	1. Depending on how you look at bags of holding, the time-hop victim would either appear where the bag of holding was on the material plane when he got time-hoped, or would appear on the astral plane. Use the first option if the bag of holding is merely bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. Use the second if the bag of holding is a kind of miniature demiplane. 2. Momentum would break your arms, not just gravity. When you're falling, you're moving at up to 200 miles per hour. What happens when a car moving at 200 miles per hour hits a telephone pole? Something similar would happen to your arms. However, this is D&D, so what would happen is that you roll a Climb check to catch yourself from a fall (Player's Handbook page 69). The DC should be about 30; +20 for catching yourself while falling, +15 for "pulling yourself up when dangling by your hands," and a -5 for the fact that you already had the Immovable Rod in your hands when you activated it. If you make the Climb check, then you take falling damage for the distance you fell before you activated the Immovable Rod. I would also have you roll a Reflex save to see how quickly you could activate the rod. If you fail the Climb check, then the rod is yanked from your hands by your own momentum, and you go splat. Of course, the above is assuming that you weren't expecting to fall. If you jump off a ledge, then at the zenith of your jump you could easily hit the button on the Immovable Rod and just hang there. No check required, IMO (although your DM may vary).
Everdreaming 01-11-08, 11:56 PM	I think the bag of holding thing was just a houserule of your game, because as far as I know, time continues normally in a bag of holding. The problem with the bag of holding trick is that bags of holding are rather ambiguous as to where exactly they are. It says they are an extradimensional space. Thats all. I think that the space would not go away when you turned the bag inside out, it would remain, but be inaccessable. So, each bag of holding acesses its own space, and it uses that and only that space. When you tried to use the bag again, you would have a very annoyed enemy waiting for you. Of course, the above paragraph is mostly my opinion, of how I think things should work out, in an attempt to make sense of how it is written. I am not saying this is the way it is, just how I think it is.
InkBlot 01-12-08, 12:05 AM	It's spelled "quantum strategies." I'm just glad nobody has come in here with misconceptions about the Schroedinger's Cat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schroedinger%27s_cat) thought experiment yet. In comic books, Superman always catches Lois right before she hits. Too late. She'd be snapped into pieces instead of crushed. Example A: Gwen Stacy. And don't you cease awareness when you go into a bag of holding? I thought things stopped. Candles come out still lit and at the same size they went in, etc. Or was that just a house rule for our game? Either just a houserule for your game, or a leftover rule from a previous edition. 3.5 Bags Of Holding don't put things in stasis; it even has rules for how long a creature can live in one before it suffocates. Gloves Of Storing, however, do hold things in stasis because they're based on the shrink item spell.
DracoPhoenix 01-12-08, 04:55 PM	Another one that might be a good tactic is the immovable rod serving as a more realiable feather fall tool. Rod of Holding=5000gold Boots of Levitation=7500 Ring of feather falling = 2200g.
MindFlayerZoidberg 01-13-08, 01:23 AM	"I'm just glad nobody has come in here with misconceptions about the Schroedinger's Cat thought experiment yet." Was thinking about that, but instead I will come in with misconceptions about String Theory: Elongate Universe Psychoportation Level: Psion/Wilder 10th (Epic) Display: Visual, Auditory Manifesting Time: One day Range: Extra-dimensional Target: One plane Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: Will partial; see text Cost: 20 pp The very strands of time and space become warped and skewed as an unimaginable spacial or temporal vicissitude materializes throughout the universe. You can expand 1 curled up dimension onto your current plane of existence to either a 4th space dimension or a 2nd time dimension. If you choose a spacial dimensional expansion, all sentient creatures on your particular plane of existence must make a will save or suffer from insanity for 2d4 hours as their consciousness fails to comprehend this extra dimensional expansion. If you choose a temporal dimensional expansion, you can access any point in time within the powers duration with a DC 35 wisdom check. Augment:For every 20 additional power points you spend, you can expand one additional curled up dimension on a different plane of existence (to a maximum of 9 curled up dimensions at 100th manifester level). If you spend 8 additional power points, you can manifest this powers as a full round action. For every 4 power points you spend, this power's DC increases by 2.
sijigs 01-13-08, 09:35 PM	It's spelled "quantum strategies." He means "tactics that involve convoluted physics that will probably end up in your demise.. after your DM vetoes it." (Damn tragedy + quantum strategy) - Quantamn Stradegy To the OP - PEACE! :D
Prime32 01-16-08, 10:10 AM	I think that the space would not go away when you turned the bag inside out, it would remain, but be inaccessable. So, each bag of holding acesses its own space, and it uses that and only that space. When you tried to use the bag again, you would have a very annoyed enemy waiting for you. What if you destroy the bag? I recall the strategy of having NPCs form a circle around the world, passing a stick between them as a move action. Since all actions in a round are supposed to take place within 6 seconds, the stick could move faster than the speed of light. Create a demiplane and fill it with quintessence. Cast gate above an enemy. :D
The_Mess 01-16-08, 12:58 PM	My first thought on the stick example was that you'd have to worry about initiatives being in the right order... but you don't, do you? You just have to get all the NPCs whose initiatives go off early to hold action (Wait: for stick to be passed; React: Pass stick). We must try this! Where can I get a lot of NPCs? He he, one of my campaigns takes place on a world shaped like an infinite plane, generally flat. You'd need an infinite number of NPCs, but the stick would travel infinitely fast!
Lycanthromancer 01-16-08, 01:04 PM	T H R A L L H E R D
The_Mess 01-16-08, 01:21 PM	Epic Thrallherd, maybe. And I'll need a staff of artificers making boots of water walking!
Prime32 01-16-08, 01:35 PM	I believe one person ruled that if a PC pulled the stick thing off, at the end of the line the stick would turn into Cthuulhu :D :coolcthul
AtsuiShoto 01-20-08, 02:26 AM	I'm not sure why you'd need a line of NPCs stretching around the world. After all, if the item travels enough distance in a short enough time, the direction of travel is irrelevant to the speed, and the total displacement can even be zero. If you are attempting to achieve a specific effect with your superluminal item, then of course your direction of travel should be tailored to your needs, but the item will b superluminal regardless. As for the thrallherd being epic level... I'd say so! You'll need 589,248,000 NPCs at the very least. This is assuming the NPCs pass the item along twice (each gets two move actions, after all), reaching almost exactly the speed of light. To push it superluminal, the last NPC doesn't pass the item the second time; he throws it more than 5' as a standard action. Double the NPCs if you want maximum distance displaced for minimum superluminal velocity. Add 2 extra NPCs if you believe your last NPC can't throw the item as fast as he can pass it. For a thrallherd to control 589,248,000 NPCs, he'll need to be... SHOOT, I've forgotten how to use my TI-89 :confused: I WAS going to graph the thrallherd thrall chart to find a line of best fit, then extrapolate out to 589,248,000 thralls... but I have forgotten how. I... am ashamed. Edit: I've done a little estimating, and I think a thrallherd with about a 3 million thrall score could pull it off. Mind you, that would require being about 1.325 millionth level, unless in his vast greatness the thrallherd can boost his Charisma by means other than the +1 every 4 levels. I think any character of such a high level need not worry about silly tricks to break the speed of light. Heck, his psionic might could likely break the entire physics law book with a whim.
Prime32 01-20-08, 02:07 PM	Just have thrallherds as thralls :P
AtsuiShoto 01-21-08, 03:17 AM	Just have thrallherds as thralls :P:evillaugh I forgot! Your thralls can do more than just pass the item along, they can bring along their own thralls! That's just EVIL. I love it.
CrimsonDeath 01-21-08, 04:08 AM	Couldn't a Large thrall/believer pass the item farther than a Medium one? (Ogres, Minotaurs, and Centaurs are all ECL 6-- perfect for your top-tier Believers, and your Thrallherd Thralls could manifest Expansion to become as big as Huge.)
MnemonicSV 01-21-08, 04:14 AM	"I'm just glad nobody has come in here with misconceptions about the Schroedinger's Cat thought experiment yet." Was thinking about that, but instead I will come in with misconceptions about String Theory: Elongate Universe Psychoportation Level: Psion/Wilder 10th (Epic) Display: Visual, Auditory Manifesting Time: One day Range: Extra-dimensional Target: One plane Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: Will partial; see text Cost: 20 pp The very strands of time and space become warped and skewed as an unimaginable spacial or temporal vicissitude materializes throughout the universe. You can expand 1 curled up dimension onto your current plane of existence to either a 4th space dimension or a 2nd time dimension. If you choose a spacial dimensional expansion, all sentient creatures on your particular plane of existence must make a will save or suffer from insanity for 2d4 hours as their consciousness fails to comprehend this extra dimensional expansion. If you choose a temporal dimensional expansion, you can access any point in time within the powers duration with a DC 35 wisdom check. Augment:For every 20 additional power points you spend, you can expand one additional curled up dimension on a different plane of existence (to a maximum of 9 curled up dimensions at 100th manifester level). If you spend 8 additional power points, you can manifest this powers as a full round action. For every 4 power points you spend, this power's DC increases by 2. So, in a nutshell, you basically turn the plane you're on into the far realm instead. Interesting. I once came up with a 9th-level psychoportation-based power with wish-like effects. It operated on the many worlds theory of quantum physics: The nomad would basically visualize his desired effect, and then transport himself to the particular reality (out of all possible realities) in which the precise effect he desired had actually already occured, possibly without his input at all. He also avoided any beneficial/detrimental effects to his person, since he was never previously a part of that particular reality (ie: his history wasn't altered... he's just now "something extra" in this "more favourable" world). (Edit: I wonder... perhaps a Chaos Beast is actually just a big quasi-sentient quantum superposition! Hmmmm.....)
CrimsonDeath 01-21-08, 01:00 PM	(Edit: I wonder... perhaps a Chaos Beast is actually just a big quasi-sentient quantum superposition! Hmmmm.....) Or could it be a cross-section of a higher-dimensional entity? And when it bites you, it imparts angular momentum in a direction in which you're not accustomed to rotating (because that directon doesn't normally exist for you)?
Prime32 01-21-08, 01:35 PM	I once had an idea to reimagine modrons as beings which exist in more than three dimensions - they could appear as a collection of geometric shapes randomly growing, shrinking, merging, splitting, and passing through solid objects. Mainly because that would be infinitely cooler than this: http://www.deathstar.org/~krlipka/ps/sense/3erules/race_modron.jpg
InkBlot 01-21-08, 02:03 PM	Like the Krawlni (http://www.unicornjelly.com/gorbald6.htm)? The Krawlni are hyperdimensional beings, and all we can see of them are hyperspace cross-sections poking into three-dimensional space. Their native home is a hyper-hyper Kleinbottle of layered pocket universes, or planes of reality, and they shift between them as easily as we walk from room to room in a house. A Krawlni is used as an antagonist in To Save Her. (http://www.pasteldefender.com/to%20save%20her%20224.html) Probably best to start at the begining (http://www.pasteldefender.com/to%20save%20her%20000.html), but the Krawlni doesn't show up until relatively recently. A Krawlni shows up in Pastel Defender Heliotrope as well. (http://pasteldefender.com/038.html) There are some more notes about the Krawlni, and other fictional-higher-dimensional-oddities, scattered about the website and the forums (probably more-so on the old forums (http://www.unicornjelly.com/oldforums/)). Personally, I find the modrons endearing.
MnemonicSV 01-21-08, 02:14 PM	I once had an idea to reimagine modrons as beings which exist in more than three dimensions - they could appear as a collection of geometric shapes randomly growing, shrinking, merging, splitting, and passing through solid objects. Mainly because that would be infinitely cooler than this: That planescape image reminds me... I once had a 2e psychoportationist who tried to leave Sigil (not via a gate) by jumping into an extra-dimensional space while carrying a bag of holding, under the theory that the standard "ejected into deep ethereal" rule would supercede the "only leave via a gate" rule. I was wrong (the DM didn't let it fly). Didn't go anywhere... just destroyed my bag of holding and the contents ended up all over the street (to be promptly stolen by passersby). Maybe that's what happens with the OP's situation. You just appear in the last place the bag of holding was instead, not necessarily where you were.
MnemonicSV 01-21-08, 02:27 PM	Snip... There are some more notes about the Krawlni, and other fictional-higher-dimensional-oddities, scattered about the website and the forums (probably more-so on the old forums (http://www.unicornjelly.com/oldforums/)). Even on the wizards website, you could find a multi-dimensional being I think. Remember the "you craft the creature" article by design and development a ways back? IIRC it was given the "blasphemous geometries" ability, as a result that it doesn't quite translate well into our reality. Wish I could remember more than that though.
Saiyamantis 01-21-08, 07:00 PM	My first thought on the stick example was that you'd have to worry about initiatives being in the right order... but you don't, do you? You just have to get all the NPCs whose initiatives go off early to hold action (Wait: for stick to be passed; React: Pass stick). Actually, it's even weirder than that. Since the readied action takes place just before the triggered action, each NPC except the first (who is not passed to) and the last (who has nobody to pass to) will pass the stick on, then immediately receive the stick from the previous NPC. This will happen all the way down your line, leaving everyone in your line except the first NPC holding an identical stick. If you arrange your NPCs in a circle so that the last NPC passes to the first, then everyone will end up holding a stick, and the first NPC will receive stick before he's begun passing. Got all that? Good. Now try it again with a Staff of Power. Of course, this all assumes that the readied action doesn't interrupt the trigger action in this case (by grabbing the stick before it's passed to you), in which case you're only breaking space and not time. I'm sure there's a way around that problem with careful wording, though.