Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BlaineTog 09-21-04, 03:38 AM	SOULKNIFE FIX It's common knowledge that the Soulknife is a bit underpowered. Now, I don’t know what full BaB (a popular choice for a quick fix) would do to it, so my fix here is a bit more conservative. I also wanted a more sneaky kind of class. Enjoy! http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/xph_gallery/80449.jpg Game Rule Information Soulknife have the following game statistics. Base Attack Bonus: Average (as a rogue) Hit Die: d8. Saves: Good Ref and Will / Poor Fort. Class Skills: The soul knife’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are as follows: Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Psionics) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier Class Features All of the following are class features of the Soulknife base class. Weapons and Armor Proficiency: Soulknives are proficient with all simple weapons, with their own mind blades, and with light armor and shields (except tower shields). Mind blade, Weapon Focus (mind blade), Wild Talent Throw mind blade, Bonus Feat Psychic strike +1d8 +1 mind blade Free draw, shape mind blade +2 mind blade, Bonus Feat Psychic strike +2d8 +3 mind blade Bladewind, Greater Weapon Focus (mind blade) +4 mind blade, Bonus Feat Psychic strike +3d8 +5 mind blade Knife to the soul +6 mind blade, Bonus Feat Psychic strike +4d8 +7 mind blade Multiple throw +8 mind blade, Bonus Feat Psychic strike +5d8 +9 mind blade, Last Strike Mind Blade (Su): As a move action, a soulknife can create a semisolid blade composed of psychic energy distilled from his own mind. The blade is identical in all ways (except visually) to a short sword of a size appropriate for its wielder. For instance, a Medium soulknife materializes a Medium mind blade that he can wield as a light weapon, and the blade deals 1d6 points of damage (crit 19–20/x2). Soulknives who are smaller or larger than Medium create mind blades identical to short swords appropriate for their size, with a corresponding change to the blade’s damage. The wielder of a mind blade gains the usual benefits to his attack roll and damage roll from a high Strength bonus. The blade can be broken (it has hardness 10 and 10 hit points); however, a soulknife can simply create another on his next move action. The moment he relinquishes his grip on his blade, it dissipates (unless he intends to throw it; see below). A mind blade is considered a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. A soulknife can use feats such as Power Attack or Combat Expertise in conjunction with the mind blade just as if it were a normal weapon. He can also choose mind blade for feats requiring a specific weapon choice, such as Weapon Specialization. Powers or spells that upgrade weapons can be used on a mind blade. A soulknife’s mind blade improves as the character gains higher levels. At 4th level and every other level thereafter, the mind blade gains a cumulative +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls (+2 at 6th level, +3 at 8th level, +4 at 10th level, +5 at 12th level, and so on). Note that the enhancement bonus of the mind blade cannot exceed +5. The Soulknife may (and, indeed, must, after the enhancement bonus exceeds +6) apply a special ability from the table below instead of an enhancement bonus. A soulknife can choose any combination of weapon special abilities and/or enhancement bonus that does not exceed the total allowed by the soulknife’s level. The weapon ability or abilities remain the same every time the soulknife materializes his mind blade (unless he decides to reassign its abilities; see below). The ability or abilities apply to any form the mind blade takes, including the use of the shape mind blade or bladewind class abilities. Weapon Special Ability Enhancement Bonus Value Bane +1 Defending +1 Distance +1 Flaming +1 Frost +1 Ghost Touch +1 Keen +1 Lucky* +1 Merciful +1 Mighty cleaving +1 Psychokinetic* +1 Shock +1 Sundering* +1 Vicious +1 Anarchic +2 Axiomatic +2 Collision* +2 Flaming Burst +2 Frost Burst +2 Holy +2 Mindcrusher* +2 Psychokinetic burst* +2 Shocking Burst +2 Suppression* +2 Unholy +2 Wounding +2 Bodyfeeder* +3 Mindfeeder* +3 Soulbreaker* +3 Brilliant Energy +4 Coup de Grace* +5 *New special abilities A soulknife can reassign the ability or abilities he has added to his mind blade. To do so, he must first spend 8 hours in concentration. After that period, the mind blade materializes with the new ability or abilities selected by the soulknife. Even in places where psionic effects do not normally function (such as within a null psionics field), a soulknife can attempt to sustain his mind blade by making a DC 20 Will save. On a successful save, the soulknife maintains his mind blade for a number of rounds equal to his class level before he needs to check again. On an unsuccessful attempt, the mind blade vanishes. As a move action on his turn, the soulknife can attempt a new Will save to rematerialize his mind blade while he remains within the psionics negating effect. Weapon Focus (Mind Blade): A soulknife gains Weapon Focus (mind blade) as a bonus feat. Wild Talent: A soulknife gains Wild Talent as a bonus feat. (This class feature provides the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade, if he has no power points otherwise.) Bonus Feat: At 2nd level and every 4 levels thereafter (6th, 10th, 14th, and so one), the soulknife gains a bonus Psionic Feat. Throw Mind Blade (Ex): A soul knife of 2nd level or higher can throw his mind blade as a ranged weapon with a range increment of 30 feet. Whether or not the attack hits, a thrown mind blade then dissipates. A soulknife of 3rd level or higher can make a psychic strike (see below) with a thrown mind blade and can use the blade in conjunction with other special abilities (such as Knife to the Soul; see below). Psychic Strike (Su): As a move action, a soulknife of 3rd level or higher can imbue his mind blade with destructive psychic energy. This effect deals an extra 1d8 points of damage to the next living, nonmindless target he successfully hits with a melee attack (or ranged attack, if he is using the throw mind blade ability). Creatures immune to mind-affecting effects are immune to psychic strike damage. (Unlike the rogue’s sneak attack, the psychic strike is not precision damage and can affect creatures otherwise immune to extra damage from critical hits or more than 30 feet away, provided they are living, nonmindless creatures not immune to mind-affecting effects.) A mind blade deals this extra damage only once when this ability is called upon, but a soulknife can imbue his mind blade with psychic energy again by taking another move action. Once a soulknife has prepared his blade for a psychic strike, it holds the extra energy until it is used. Even if the soulknife drops the mind blade (or it otherwise dissipates, such as when it is thrown and misses), it is still imbued with psychic energy when the soulknife next materializes it. At every four levels beyond 3rd (7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th), the extra damage from a soulknife’s psychic strike increases as shown on the Table above. Free Draw (Su): At 5th level, a soulknife becomes able to materialize his mind blade as a free action instead of a move action. He can make only one attempt to materialize the mind blade per round, however. Shape Mind Blade (Su): At 5th level, a soulknife gains the ability to change the form of his mind blade. As a fullround action, he can change his mind blade to replicate a longsword (damage 1d8 for a Medium weapon wielded as a one-handed weapon) or a bastard sword (damage 1d10 for a Medium weapon, but he must wield it as a two-handed weapon unless he knows the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) feat). If a soulknife shapes his mind blade into the form of a bastard sword and wields it two-handed, he adds 1-1/2 times his Strength bonus to his damage rolls, just like when using any other two-handed weapon. Alternatively, a soulknife can split his mind blade into two identical short swords, suitable for fighting with a weapon in each hand. (The normal penalties for fighting with two weapons apply.) However, both mind blades have an enhancement bonus 1 lower than the soulknife would otherwise create with a single mind blade. The mind blade retains the shape given to it using this class feature every time it is formed until the soulknife reshapes it. If the soulknife loses access to this class feature due to negative levels or level loss due to death, his mind blade regresses to its original shortsword form. Bladewind (Su): At 9th level, a soulknife gains the ability to momentarily fragment his mind blade into numerous identical blades, each of which strikes at a nearby opponent. As a full attack, when wielding his mind blade, a soulknife can give up his regular attacks and instead fragment his mind blade to make one melee attack at his full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. Each fragment functions identically to the soulknife’s regular mind blade. When using bladewind, a soulknife forfeits any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats or abilities (such as the Cleave feat or the haste spell). The mind blade immediately reverts to its previous form after the bladewind attack. Greater Weapon Focus (Mind Blade): A soulknife gains Greater Weapon Focus (mind blade) as a bonus feat at 9th level. Knife to the Soul (Su): Beginning at 13th level, when a soulknife executes a psychic strike, he can choose to substitute Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma damage (his choice) for extra dice of damage. For each die of extra damage he gives up, he deals 1 point of damage to the ability score he chooses. A soulknife can combine extra dice of damage and ability damage in any combination. The soulknife decides which ability score his psychic strike damages and the division of ability damage and extra dice of damage when he imbues his mind blade with the psychic strike energy. Multiple Throw (Ex): At 17th level and higher, a soulknife can throw a number of mind blades per round equal to the number of melee attacks he could make. Last Strike (Su): At 20th level, the soulknife's mindblade can retain the energy needed for a psychic strike longer. When the soulknife makes a successful psychic strike with his mindblade, the next attack he makes will also do psychic strike damage, as long as it is made within 1 round of the first strike (before the beginning of his next turn). Once this second psychic strike is made, the mindblade's extra energy is used up and it will not do extra psychic strike damage unless imbued again. This supernatural ability is compatible with ability damage from Knife to the Soul. NEW FEATS: EXOTIC MINDBLADE SHAPE [PSIONIC] You can shape your mind blade into different types of weapons. Prerequisite: the Shape Mind Blade class feature Benefit: When you take this feat, choose any one simple or martial melee weapon, or any exotic weapon, with which you are already proficient. When you choose the shape of your mind blade, you may form it to have the same statistics as the chosen weapon. Special: You may take this feats multiple times, each time choosing a different weapon. A character who chooses "Dagger" with this feat can split his mind blade into two identical daggers, suitable for fighting with a weapon in each hand, just as he can with a short sword (including the reduction of the weapon's enhancement bonus); this mindblade form can only be thrown a number of times per round equal to the number that any other type of mind blade can be throw. A character who chooses "Shuriken" (or equivalent weapon) can throw a number of mindblades per round equal to the number of melee attacks he could make if the soulknife also has the Free Draw ability, but this mindblade form has a 10 foot range increment when throw multiple times per round until the soulknife gains the Multiple Throw class feature, at which point its range increment increases to 50; a soulknife needn't reshape his mindblade to use this form, although any mindblade he was holding at the time dissipates as if her had dropped it. All double weapons have an enhancement bonus 1 lower than the soulknife would otherwise create with a single mind blade. FILL THE BLADE [PSIONIC] You can more quickly charge up your mindblade. Prerequisite: +4d8 Psychic Strike. Benefit: By expending your Psionic Focus, you can imbue your mindblade with the energy for a psychic strike as a swift action. Normal: You can only imbue your mindblade with the energy for a psychic strike as a move action. Special: If the attack imbued by this ability succesfully deals Psychic Strike damage, you do not gain additional imbued attacks as per the Last Strike ability. HOLD ENERGY [PSIONIC] You can pick and choose when to use your psychic strikes. Prerequisite: Psychic Strike +2d8 Benefit: You may choose to not expend your psychic strike even if you otherwise could. You may choose to use it at any time during your turn, even after you have rolled normal damage or even made your other attacks, provided the attack in question was able to expend your psychic strike at the time. Using your psychic strike after you have made other attacks requires the expenditure of a swift action. Special: A character with Hold Energy may make use of the Psychic Overload feat any time he strikes with two psychic strikes in one round, provided he delays the first psychic strikes to coincide with the second, as detailed in the feat description above. INVISIBLADE [PSIONIC] You can manifest your mindblade as a weapon of pure thought with no visible aspects at all. Prerequisite: Mind Blade class feature, Knowledge (Psionics) 9+ ranks Benefit: As long as you are psionically focused, you can choose to manifest your mindblade with no appearance at all, as if it were invisible. You gain +1 to attacks made with your mindblade when it is invisible, because it is difficult to defend against attacks when you can’t see the weapon. Your mindblade isn’t actually invisible but simple has no visual appearance, so spells such as true seeing do not reveal it. MINDBLADE FINESSE [PSIONIC] You can handle large mindblades with grace rather than savagery. Prerequisites: the "shape mind blade" class feature, Weapon Finesse, Knowledge (Psionics) 4+ ranks, Balance 3+ ranks. Benefit: Choose one mindblade form that cannot normally be the subject of the Weapon Finesse feat. The benefits of your Weapon Finesse feat now extend to the mindblade even when it is in this form. Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, each time applying to a different mindblade form. MINDBLADE KENSAI [PSIONIC] Your mindblade continues to improve despite the following of a different path. Prerequisite: Free Draw soulknife ability. Benefit: Add three to your effective soulknife level when determining your mind blade's enhancement bonus, to a maximum of your character level. This only applies to mind blade enhancement bonus class features, not mindblade techniques (Bladewind, Knife to the Soul, Multiple Throw), bonus feats, or psychic strike progression. Essentially, up to three non-soulknife levels count as soulknife levels when determining enhancement bonuses on your mind blade. Special: If you take levels in a class that provides similar abilities (such as BRC's Blade Manifester with its Student of the Mind Blade ability), the extra levels stack. You can take this feat more than once. Its effects stack. However, the number of effective extra levels of soulknife granted can never be more than half your total true soulknife level. For example, a soulknife 6/ Psychic Warrior 6 can only gain 3 effective extra levels of soulknife, no matter how many times he selects this feat. POISONED BLADE [PSIONIC] You have the ability to absorb poison into your body and deliver it with your mindblade when you wish. Prerequisites: the "Mind Blade" class feature, Autohypnosis 6+ ranks Benefit: As a move action, the character may attempt a DC 15 Autohypnosis check while holding one dose of poison (provoking an Attack of Opportunity). If the check succeeds, the poison is absorbed into his body and any time he hits an enemy with his mind blade, he can choose to unload the poison into them as if he had struck them with poison applied to a normal blade (however, he must decide whether or not to unload the poison before he throws his mindblade). The character may only have up to two doses of poison absorbed at any one time, and using it on the enemy uses it up as usual. If the soulknife has the Exotic Mindblade Shape (Shuriken) feat, he may absorb up to twenty additional doses doses of poison at once which he can only choose to use when throwing mindblades using the shuriken shape. No mortal magic can detect the presence of this poison unless the character allows it to. This is a supernatural ability. Special: If ravages (from the Book of Exalted Deeds) are available to the charcters, a character with this feat may absorb and discharge them exactly as if they were poisons. PSYCHIC OVERLOAD [PSIONIC] Enemies that you strike with two psychic strikes at the same time find the powerful energies too much. Prerequisite: Psychic Strike +2d8 Benefit: If you have your mindblade split into a double form and you successfully hit with a psychic strike from each mindblade, one immediately after the other, your target must make a Will save (DC 10 + psychic strike damage + Cha bonus) or take 1d6 electricity damage and be dazed for a round. If you choose to use Knife to the Soul, roll your full psychic strike damage anyway to use that for the DC. QUICKSHAPER [PSIONIC] You can quickly and easily change the shape of your mindblade. Prerequisites: the Free Draw and Shape Mind Blade class abilities Benefit: You can change the shape of your mindblade as a move action. Normal: You must spend a fullround action to change the shape of your mindblade. And here are some other Psionic feats the Soulknife might be interested in.
RadicalTaoist 09-21-04, 08:56 AM	I like it. The feat is excellent, it can make soulknives a viable class by itself. I would add the high level ability to imbue your mindblade with the energy necessary for psychic strike as a swift action once per round. That would make mobility and hit-n-run tactics much more viable, which is what you want in a sneaky character. It also gives a reason for psychic strike not to be dependent on psionic focus. If you think a swift action is too powerful, make it 'as part of a move action' like drawing a weapon without Quick Draw, or force the soulknife to do a concentration check or will save to imbue that fast.
Yoppen 09-21-04, 10:15 AM	I like this. It still makes multiclassing bad, but not as bad. :mage:
The Livewire 09-21-04, 11:00 AM	Hmm, might I make a trio of suggestions, hopefully not breaking your class? 1) Allow the soulknife levels to count as 'manifester levels' 2) include a feat to imbue powers into a mind blade for discharge 3) Include Hidden Talent in the list of bonus feats. That way you could burn feats to get a collection of low level powers and power points to include them. And I like the class. Not as 'fixed' as the XPH knife
Tempest Stormwind 09-21-04, 11:24 AM	This... is outstanding. Words fail to describe how awesome you are, Blaine. The d8 hit die and change to skill points are wonderful -- they alter how many people will see the class. I kept arguing earlier that yes, it's a combat class, but a sneaky one, relying on suprise and weaving, and yours further suggests this. (Not to mention the slight changes to the skill list with a bunch of rogue skills) The unification of Mind Blade Enhancement helps a lot with flexibility. There could be a slight issue with it, though, if everyone goes for a "+1 Mind Blade of these abilities" and then shapes it into a pair of short swords (do they lose abilities? Does it lose only enhancement bonuses? If it's the second, and the total drops to +0, do the abilities wink out?) -- this was the only advantage to tracking them separately, though, and it can be fixed with one small sentence. My only issues in general, beyond that minor bit of paperwork: 1) Multiple Throw is still a really, really high-level thing. I agree most soulknives will be getting one attack per round anyway most of the time, but 17 is still a tad high. I agree it fits with the progression, but perhaps allowing people to choose one between it and Bladewind at 9th, and then you'd get the other one at a higher level...? 2) Multiclass issues. This is more of a general soulknife problem, though. I propose a new [Psionic] feat that copies Practiced Spellcaster for this, though: Mindblade Kensai [Psionic] Prerequisite: Free Draw soulknife ability. Benefit: Add four to your effective soulknife level when determining soulknife class features, to a maximum of your character level. This only applies to class features pertaining to the mind blade itself (OOC: In BlaineTog's version, this is everything except bonus feats and Greater Weapon Focus.), not base attacks, saves, or the like. Special: This feat can be taken more than once, but only if all four levels have been used up, and you have gained at least one actual Soulknife level as well. Its effects stack. (How does that measure up? SHould I remove the whole "more than once" thing?) Considering how these were problems with nearly every variant soulknife I've seen, and there were more beyond that, you've done wonderful. I'm going to present this one to my DM and hope he'll let me update my soulknife. By the way, Livewire: That almost breaks the new soulknife idea. Why not look up a PrC for that one? There was a conversion of the PsiHB knife a while back that seems to work fine (I think it was called the Mind Knife), or you can use BRC's Hyperconcious' "Blade Manifester."
BlaineTog 09-21-04, 07:21 PM	I like it.Good. Thank you. :D The feat is excellent, it can make soulknives a viable class by itself.Yes, very possibley. I have a potential tweaks: should Whip form be specifically prohibited from being compatible with Bladewind? Should I let the Mind Blade form 2 Daggers (like how he can form 2 shortswords)? ANy other weapons that would be good to add? I would add the high level ability to imbue your mindblade with the energy necessary for psychic strike as a swift action once per round.A) I thought about something like this, but I don't know where to put it. 20th seems a little high (although having a cap ability would be excellent), but not necessarily out of line. Thoughts? The Livewire, I agree with Tempest. What you want sounds like a SoulKnife Prestige Class. This... is outstanding. Words fail to describe how awesome you are, Blaine.:tiphat: (do they lose abilities? Does it lose only enhancement bonuses? If it's the second, and the total drops to +0, do the abilities wink out?)Well, forming it into a pair loses a point of enhancement bonus to play around with, and this includes special abilities. Really, I looked at the seperation of the abilities and thought: if a +1 special ability is balanced with a +1 enhancement bonus, then there's no good reason to seperate the two. My only issues in general, beyond that minor bit of paperwork: 1) Multiple Throw is still a really, really high-level thing. I agree most soulknives will be getting one attack per round anyway most of the time, but 17 is still a tad high. I agree it fits with the progression, but perhaps allowing people to choose one between it and Bladewind at 9th, and then you'd get the other one at a higher level...?Bladewind is deceptive in that (like Whirlwind Attack) it looks a lot more useful than it really is. Seldom is the time that you are surrounded by a number of enemies of equal ability when all of them are threats (which is to say you will generally only be surrounded by many weak enemies who are easy to kill anyway or not surrounded at all). It has its uses, but they ar not a whole lot. Multiple Throw, on the other hand, is a very good ability, especially if you've formed your mindblade into a Greatsword. Now, you're throwing 2d6+5+Strength + special weapon ability missiles every round. This is far better than 9th level. 2) Multiclass issues. This is more of a general soulknife problem, though. I propose a new [Psionic] feat that copies Practiced Spellcaster for this, though: Mindblade Kensai [Psionic] Prerequisite: Free Draw soulknife ability. Benefit: Add four to your effective soulknife level when determining soulknife class features, to a maximum of your character level. This only applies to class features pertaining to the mind blade itself (OOC: In BlaineTog's version, this is everything except bonus feats and Greater Weapon Focus.), not base attacks, saves, or the like. Special: This feat can be taken more than once, but only if all four levels have been used up, and you have gained at least one actual Soulknife level as well. Its effects stack. (How does that measure up? SHould I remove the whole "more than once" thing?)I like the idea, but its a bit too powerful, IMO. First off, it shjould probably only add enhancement boni. Secondly, IMO +4 is too high. Among other things, this means that a Soulknife who doesn't care about throwing or getting the full Psychic Strike can end up with a +16 BaB and full-a strength mind blade (just take 16 levels in SK and 4 in Fighter/ ranger/ barbarian/ paladin/ Ilithid Slayer/ etc). Perhaps just +2, and only chooseable once (mind you, IMO Practiced Spellcaster is also a bit too good).
RadicalTaoist 09-21-04, 09:03 PM	Yes, very possibly. I have a potential tweaks: should Whip form be specifically prohibited from being compatible with Bladewind? Should I let the Mind Blade form 2 Daggers (like how he can form 2 shortswords)? ANy other weapons that would be good to add? A) I thought about something like this, but I don't know where to put it. 20th seems a little high (although having a cap ability would be excellent), but not necessarily out of line. Thoughts? The Whip is fine with Bladewind, remember how little damage whips do, and psychic strike affects only one attack. Two daggers is a good idea. The only other weapons worth adding to the feat are falchion and spiked chain. Falchion I'd say is worth adding for the crit-happy SKs. As for spiked chain...you already have ranseur, and whip for trip, reach, and disarm. You can choose to add spiked chain. If you think spiked chain is too good, add heavy or light flail instead. Make swift imbue a psionic feat requiring +4d8 psychic strike. If you want a good cap ability, here's one: Last Strike (Su): At 20th level, the soulknife's mindblade can retain the energy needed for a psychic strike longer. When the soulknife makes a successful psychic strike with his mindblade, the next attack he makes will also do psychic strike damage, as long as it is made within 1 round of the first strike. This ability is usable with ability damage from Knife to the Soul. Effectively, two psychic strikes in a round if you're lucky enough to hit. This, swift imbue, and exotic mindblade shape make the soulknife's psychic strike on par with the rogue's sneak attack. We have a class worth taking, gentlemen.
BlaineTog 09-22-04, 01:16 AM	The Whip is fine with Bladewind, remember how little damage whips do,Yeah, but its a 15 foot reach, which (if I'm not mistake) increases to 30 feet for a Large soulknife (not hard, considering the low level of Enlarge Person). The only other weapons worth adding to the feat are falchion and spiked chain. Falchion I'd say is worth adding for the crit-happy SKs. As for spiked chain...you already have ranseur, and whip for trip, reach, and disarm. You can choose to add spiked chain. If you think spiked chain is too good, add heavy or light flail instead.My only concern is weapon physics (and balance, in the case of the spiked chain). Judging by the (probably screwy) picture in the PHB, the falcion and flail works mostly off of the momentum of the mass of the weapon (in other words, the flasion hurts becasue its a big fudgin' piece of weighty metal; and the flail kills things because its a ball of steel that, as a bonus, has spikey bits). And since the mindblade is weightless... And the spiked chain is just cazygonuts broken. Make swift imbue a psionic feat requiring +4d8 psychic strike.Good idea. I'll probably get aro8und to writing it up later... when I'm not so tired. If you want a good cap ability, here's one: Last Strike (Su): At 20th level, the soulknife's mindblade can retain the energy needed for a psychic strike longer. When the soulknife makes a successful psychic strike with his mindblade, the next attack he makes will also do psychic strike damage, as long as it is made within 1 round of the first strike. This ability is usable with ability damage from Knife to the Soul.Looks good. Anyone object?
Voldenuit 09-22-04, 01:54 AM	Give your mindblade the Morphing (+1) ability from FR: Underdark. Never want for an exotic weapon again! Or even just turn your mindblade into a longbow, crossbow or other ranged weapon. Metalline (+2) from FR:U is also a neat way to bypass DR for a Soulknife.
Dragos 09-22-04, 09:34 AM	i think the morphing quality would be a little much seeing that it sorta distorts the idea of the class...and the metalline would not work...seeing that it originally needs to be made of metal to begin with...and the mindblade is not.... i happen to like last strike as a capstone ability so thats one vote yay! also here's a vote for the swift embue of psychic strike feat
Tempest Stormwind 09-22-04, 11:22 AM	I just cleared this guy with my DM. By unanimous vote at the table, this is more or less how the Soulknife should have been printed. If you don't get recognition from Wizards for this, Blaine, something is horribly wrong with the universe. Morphing is a good idea, but with Shape Mind Blade as a class feature it sorta defeats the purpose (sort of like giving the blade an enchantment for free quick-draw). I like Last Strike. Plus, the ability to extend it to more attacks would be perfect as an epic feat option for a soulknife. Of course, how will this compare with Swift Imbue, if that's to be written at all? I hadn't thought about greatswords under Multiple Throw. I withdraw my earlier complaints on that one. I was mirroring Practiced Spellcaster, plus a little extra (since the PS caster levels can be used to multiclass further with greater ease than soulknife levels can). I chose four mostly because it matched, but partly because that's a good amount to place on this... but if you want me to hit it with a nerf bat a bit... Mindblade Kensai [Psionic] Prerequisite: Free Draw soulknife ability. Benefit: Add three to your effective soulknife level when determining your mind blade's enhancement bonus, to a maximum of your character level. This only applies to mind blade enhancement bonus class features, not mindblade techniques (Bladewind, Knife to the Soul, Multiple Throw), bonus feats, or psychic strike progression. Essentially, up to three non-soulknife levels count as soulknife levels when determining enhancement bonuses on your mind blade. Special: If you take levels in a class that provides similar abilities (such as BRC's Blade Manifester with its Student of the Mind Blade ability), the extra levels stack. You can take this feat more than once. Its effects stack. However, the number of effective extra levels of soulknife granted can never be more than half your total true soulknife level. For instance, a soulknife 6/whatever X can only gain 3 effective extra levels of soulknife, no matter how many times he selects this feat. If you think that's a bit weak (It might be), consider allowing either the techniques or the psychic strike to be calculated with it. If it's a bit strong, lower the number of free levels to 2. (And probably rename the feat -- "Kensai" is best approximated in English as "genius") Personally, I subscribe to Oberoni's "It's Okay For Feats To Not Suck" school of thought, and if it went to 2, then I don't think it'd be worth a feat. It should never go below 3, IMHO, since if you took it as a character feat, you'll have another feat available when it runs out. If you're willing to invest all your character feats to do this, then go ahead -- reminds me of the 3.0 meditant in that regard. What do you think of the new limitation on it, or do I need to hit it again?
JiobiValen 09-22-04, 12:10 PM	Really nice class blaine! I have to rip the pages out of my book now and replace it with printed pages of this. I do have one suggestion though that I used for soulknives in my campaign. A soulknife of 5th level or higher may create a mindblade version of any slashing or piercing weapon they are proficient with. I have it for slashing or piercing personally to keep in flavor of the class, oh and no weapons that require articulation to function (Removing the whip and spiked chain from the list but I can't think of any others). I rather like the idea of a soulknife wielding a longspear or scyth, really cool indeed... what do you think?
BlaineTog 09-22-04, 07:33 PM	If you don't get recognition from Wizards for this, Blaine, something is horribly wrong with the universe.Thank you, although I didn't really do anything difficult here. Morphing is a good idea, but with Shape Mind Blade as a class feature it sorta defeats the purpose (sort of like giving the blade an enchantment for free quick-draw).Agreed. I like Last Strike. Plus, the ability to extend it to more attacks would be perfect as an epic feat option for a soulknife. Of course, how will this compare with Swift Imbue, if that's to be written at all?I would think that Last Strike would make any such swift action feat irrelevant as either ability would do essentially the same thing. I was mirroring Practiced Spellcaster, plus a little extra (since the PS caster levels can be used to multiclass further with greater ease than soulknife levels can).Yeah, but the PS levels don't let you access more powerful spells, they just make your spells work better (more range, dice of damage, SR penetration, etc). IMO, 4 is a bit much, but not necessarily broken because caster levels, while nice, arn't as important as caster progression (which gives new spell levels). Here, the Soulknife can end up with +16 BaB for no loss to enhancement bonus... although if we were to add Last Strike, it may be less of an issue. Really, its that 4th itinerant attack that I'm worried about (at this level, the effective -4 vs. full BaB isn't really much of an issue since he's probably going to hit most everything anyway). Additionally, a +1 special ability to a weapon is roughly worth a weapon-realted feat, as long as it has decent prerequisites. +4 levels gives you the equivalent of +2 worth of enhancement bonus; that, gentlemen, is potentially problematic in and of itself. So perhaps if we increase the prereqs some, give +3 level, and add Last Strike, it might very well be a balanced feat. Thoughts? Really nice class blaine! I have to rip the pages out of my book now and replace it with printed pages of this.:tiphat: I rather like the idea of a soulknife wielding a longspear or scyth, really cool indeed...Perhaps, perhaps. I'd like to try to keep a flat limit on the number of weapons he can turn his mindblade into, as that particular ability is very very powerful (use a Rapier most of the time and then a Scythe to coup de gras), and IMO worth at least feat a weapon. If you'de like to suggest more weapons to add to the Exotic Weapons Shape feat, I'd certainly be happy to consider them for addition (as I've said, my only reasons for keeping one out would be logic and balance).
The_other 09-22-04, 07:48 PM	it is awesome to see a fix of the soulknife. this is the third out of 3 successful fixes youve made. first it was the sorcerer, then the fighter, now the soulknife. any other fixes you planning on? Though i always wondered why we cant shape the blade into a a handaxe and than a battle axe or waraxe. will you think about including it?
BlaineTog 09-22-04, 07:56 PM	it is awesome to see a fix of the soulknife. this is the third out of 3 successful fixes youve made. first it was the sorcerer, then the fighter, now the soulknife.Thanks, although I wouldn't really call the Comp.Fighter a success per se since he has just barely started. any other fixes you planning on?No specific class fixes that I can think of. I'll probably try to take Transmutation and Conjuration (Summoning/Calling) magic down a notch or two one of these days (assuming I don't just end up using Rich Burlew (http://www.giantitp.com/Func0012.html)'s fix). Though i always wondered why we cant shape the blade into a a handaxe and than a battle axe or waraxe. will you think about including it?I thought about that, but axes really deal their damage from being big and weighty AFAIK. You don't make axes out of mithril, for example (the game doesn't model this, but it probably should. Hey! Next fix: weapon materials ;)).
ElecWolf 09-22-04, 07:58 PM	Just an odd thought... Give him specialization, kind of like the Ranger. Say 1st level the Soul Knife chooses mace. His blade is like a mace and he follows a power attack progression. Weapon gets to larger more damaging mace-type weapons. Say 1st level he chooses Sickle. He'll progress through Improved Critical type progression. Weapon eventually gets to Scyth, etc. Just a thought to bring in other weapons, but keep it in reason.
RadicalTaoist 09-22-04, 11:37 PM	^That would make an excellent "Only at 1st level" kind of feat. School of the Cerebellum Mace/Spinal Scythe. The way I saw Swift Imbue was as usable only once per round, as I originally stated. That way, a straight 20th level mindblade with that feat could swift imbue, then make a full attack, two of those with the possibility of being psychic strikes. Before 20th level, he can imbue and spring attack in one round. Note also that I worded Last Strike to not give a "waitable" imbue. You can't imbue, PS something, then wait for a while to PS them again. You have a round to benefit from the second Psychic Strike.
The_other 09-23-04, 12:32 AM	hmmm how about adding the following weapons to exotic mind blade feat? Scythe Trident and these for sheer uniuqeness Longbow Shortbow and not to be rude but if you dismiss the scythe because the weight makes the blow, I have anime to back up my claim on a energy scythe :P
Hof 09-23-04, 08:40 AM	Warning - lurker joining the discussion. First off: excellent work BlaineTog. As already stated by everyone here, it looks great. I was wondering about the Multiple throw ability though. Would it be unbalanced to allow mind blades with stats based upon weapons with a range increment to be used as such? So as soon as free draw is gained, a thrown-dagger based soulknife would be viable for example. Or are there other balance issues I'm not seeing? Hof.
RadicalTaoist 09-23-04, 09:47 AM	Yeah, but its a 15 foot reach, which (if I'm not mistake) increases to 30 feet for a Large soulknife (not hard, considering the low level of Enlarge Person).No, I think it's only +5 ft. per size increase, or else the Tarrasque could hit you from across a lake. And the spiked chain is just cazygonuts broken. I am personally rather fond of it =] I need to make a rewrite of Last Strike, as well as do this swift imbue feat, so they don't make eachother redundant. Had another idea for a feat, too. Last Strike (Su): At 20th level, the soulknife's mindblade can retain the energy needed for a psychic strike longer. When the soulknife makes a successful psychic strike with his mindblade, the next attack he makes will also do psychic strike damage, as long as it is made within 1 round of the first strike. Once this second psychic strike is made, the mindblade's extra energy is used up and it will not do extra psychic strike damage unless imbued again. This ability is usable with ability damage from Knife to the Soul. Fill the Blade [Psionic] Prerequisite: +4d8 psychic strike. Benefit: You may now imbue your mindblade with the energy for a psychic strike as a swift action once per round. You may imbue the mindblade twice in a round with a swift action and a free action if you so wish, assuming the psychic strike attack has been made between the first imbue and the second. Normal: You can only imbue your mindblade with the energy for a psychic strike as a move action. Mind into Steel [Psionic] Prerequisite: Knife to the Soul soulknife ability, Knowledge [Psionics]: 8 ranks. Benefit: By expending your psionic focus, you can imbue a physical weapon you carry with the energy to perform a psychic strike. The next attack you make with that weapon does psychic strike damage. The mundane weapon can keep this charge for as long as it is held by you. If you sheath the weapon, drop it, give it to another character (even another soulknife with this feat) or let go of it in any way (including being disarmed or sundered) it loses the charge. As with your mindblade, imbuing a mundane weapon is a move action. Normal: Your mindblade is the only weapon you can imbue with the energy for a psychic strike. Special: When you gain this feat, any mundane weapon you use with it is also affected by any other feats or class abilities that affect a soulknife's psychic strike (Knife to the Soul, Fill the Blade, Last Strike, etc.) What do you guys think? I'm glad to offer my little bit to the fixing of what was once such a terrible class (and still is unless WotC takes our version as errata).
mhacdebhandia 09-23-04, 10:37 AM	I think that this "fix" and Last Strike are both very interesting indeed. Kudos.
Tempest Stormwind 09-23-04, 11:40 AM	I'm still thinking a bit on a revision to my Mindblade Kensai feat, but I showed this thread to my DM and he passed along a rather interesting idea -- that of alternate psychic strike feats. I mean, rogues get stuff like Arterial Strike and Hamstring in Song&Silence, which is 3.0 but I bet a lot that at least one of them will show up in Complete Thief. These feats, for those unfamiliar with them, let you trade dice of sneak attack damage to get an alternate effect attached to your sneak attack (in the examples, give up 1d6 to deliver a bleeding wound, or give up 2d6 to reduce land speed by half. Both assume you actually hit and damage them with at least 1d6 sneak attack damage after you give up the extra dice). I did a bit of thinking, and given how psychic strike is based off of (as I see it) royally mucking up people's nervous systems, it wouldn't be too hard to deliver alternate options via feats. A quick look through the DMG for conditions that could relate to nervous system damage (and without overdoing it on the power-o-meter, IMHO) gives me Dazed, Dazzled, Nauseated, Paralyzed, and Stunned. I have to give these a bit of thought (as psychic strike damage has fewer dice than sneak attack), but I like the idea of hitting someone and sending static through their brain, dazing them (or much worse). Any comments? Should I actually try this idea, or is this too houseruly already? On to comments: The spiked chain isn't so much broken as sold with rules pre-bent. In fact, I'd say the rules themselves are bent as much as the chain itself is, and they bend even further every time you swing it. :D I like Fill The Blade on the most part... especially considering where you get it. My only question with it applies to twin-blade soulknives -- can they imbue both blades as a free action, or only one? By the way, what about linking it to focus? Expend your focus, and your blade is imbued with psychic strike damage for its next attack or one round, whichever comes first. Mind Into Steel I'm less enthused with. Why would you want to do this execpt to bypass metal DR? (Even then, a modified Mettaline added to the options list could solve that). The whole class is about using your mind as a weapon -- and with Exotic Mind Blade Shape, you can still pick many common weapon types to form your blade into (Ranseur and Greatsword are ones that seem outstanding right off the bat). One secondary question: For progressing this into epic, do we maintain the current bonus feat progression (every 4 levels) or bump it to every 3? And would it occur starting at 22nd level (as the current bonus feats do) or 21st (if it replaces the additional class feature progression)? Just collecting other opinions on this. The only thing I liked about the epic soulknife in the XPH was the feat every 3 levels, and I don't think this version is sufficiently strong enough to warrant bumping it up to every 4 levels.
BlaineTog 09-23-04, 07:25 PM	Say 1st level the Soul Knife chooses mace. His blade is like a mace and he follows a power attack progression. Weapon gets to larger more damaging mace-type weapons.But this doesn't really make sense, seeing as a mace works off of the theory that hitting people really hard works best when you hit them with stuff thats really heavy (and the mindlbade is massless). Say 1st level he chooses Sickle. He'll progress through Improved Critical type progression. Weapon eventually gets to Scyth, etc.Sickle is probably a good weapon to add to Exotic Mindblade Shape, and Scythe might be too (although it seems as if the blade would have to be far seperate from the Soulknife). I'll have to look them over some more. Whip [/i]It's already there Falchion This is a weighty weapon (judging by the picture). Scythe Again, the Shape of this weapon is very diffierent from what I would think makes sense. Trident Again, I don't think the mind blade makes a whole lot of sense if it shape gets too complicated, and a three-pronged spear at the end of a long haft is getting mildly complex. and these for sheer uniuqeness Longbow Shortbow Thats veeeeeerrrrry interesting. The shape of one of these guys would clearly be too complicated, but perhaps the base physics of it would not be. Such as, you hold up your hand and a thin, arrow-like version of the mindblade shoots out. This would consequently allow the mindblade to take Rapid Shot, Manyshot, etc. Very interesting indeed, although I'd think Shortbow is probably the only one I'd allow in. (Notes added). I was wondering about the Multiple throw ability though. Would it be unbalanced to allow mind blades with stats based upon weapons with a range increment to be used as such? So as soon as free draw is gained, a thrown-dagger based soulknife would be viable for example. Or are there other balance issues I'm not seeing?There are, but thats not to say that its a less-than-awesome idea. Throw builds have one major downside above other types of ranged fitgheres (namely archers): they have to buy many of their weapons. While the greatsword-weilding fighter only needs one sword, you have to buy a whole bunch of [expensive] daggers, because once you throw it, you don't get it back until the end of the battle (unless you get Returning daggers, which not only cost even more but require you to stand in one place, and you still have to have one dagger per attack). This is why the Mindblade makes for a very good thrower (and why the multithrow ability is as high as it is): he can chuck a weapon just about as good as the fighter's greatsword at enemies, deal almost exactly the same amount of damage, and he doesn't have to pay for 3-4 of them. The Soulknife's free weapon is nice for meleeists but positivelly divine for throwers who had to pay up the wazoo to use their fighting style. Now, a Soulknife who could have a shortbow-like version of his mindblade is not anywhere near as uber as the greatsword-thrower that the Soulknife could be. Amunition is cheap as dirt, so all you really need is one weapon: the bow. He also doesn't get to add his Strength bonus to damage. No, I think it's only +5 ft. per size increase, or else the Tarrasque could hit you from across a lake.Good point. Although 20 feet is still a fireball... Last Strike (Su): At 20th level, the soulknife's mindblade can retain the energy needed for a psychic strike longer. When the soulknife makes a successful psychic strike with his mindblade, the next attack he makes will also do psychic strike damage, as long as it is made within 1 round of the first strike (before the beginning of his next turn). Once this second psychic strike is made, the mindblade's extra energy is used up and it will not do extra psychic strike damage unless imbued again. This ability is compatible with ability damage from Knife to the Soul.Good (I editted it a bit). FILL THE BLADE [PSIONIC] Prerequisite: +4d8 Psychic Strike. Benefit: By expending your Psionic Focus, you can imbue your mindblade with the energy for a psychic strike as a swift action. Normal: You can only imbue your mindblade with the energy for a psychic strike as a move action. Special: If the attack imbued by this ability succesfully deals Psychic Strike damage, you do not gain additional imbued attacks as per the Last Strike ability. Mind into Steel [Psionic] Prerequisite: Knife to the Soul soulknife ability, Knowledge [Psionics]: 8 ranks. Benefit: By expending your psionic focus, you can imbue a physical weapon you carry with the energy to perform a psychic strike. The next attack you make with that weapon does psychic strike damage. The mundane weapon can keep this charge for as long as it is held by you. If you sheath the weapon, drop it, give it to another character (even another soulknife with this feat) or let go of it in any way (including being disarmed or sundered) it loses the charge. As with your mindblade, imbuing a mundane weapon is a move action. Normal: Your mindblade is the only weapon you can imbue with the energy for a psychic strike. Special: When you gain this feat, any mundane weapon you use with it is also affected by any other feats or class abilities that affect a soulknife's psychic strike (Knife to the Soul, Fill the Blade, Last Strike, etc.)I'm not so sure I get this one. At best, its broken, and at worst, its useless. I think its probably best to leave it out. I'm still thinking a bit on a revision to my Mindblade Kensai feat, but I showed this thread to my DM and he passed along a rather interesting idea -- that of alternate psychic strike feats.Great idea! If you want to stat out some, I'd be happy to consider them for inclusion to the 1st post. I like Fill The Blade on the most part... especially considering where you get it. My only question with it applies to twin-blade soulknives -- can they imbue both blades as a free action, or only one?Since its a Swift action, I'd say only 1. By the way, what about linking it to focus? Expend your focus, and your blade is imbued with psychic strike damage for its next attack or one round, whichever comes first.I tweaked mine to include this cost, but I don't think limiting it to 1 round is necessary at all. Since you can't ever double-imbue your blade, and if it lasts all day you could just as easily use the move action, I don't think its all that bit a deal. One secondary question: For progressing this into epic, do we maintain the current bonus feat progression (every 4 levels) or bump it to every 3?Do whatever you want. My group doesn't play epic (partially becasue of the tendency of the rules to break down and partially becasue we just don't like that high a power level), so I'm not in a position to have an opinion about this.
Tempest Stormwind 09-23-04, 09:11 PM	I'll think up some rough ideas now, but I don't have enough time to do an analysis on them tonight (fencing classes tend to get in the way). Glad you like the idea. My initial thoughts have to be powered-up some, though, since by the level when rogues can start getting these abilities (6th level, right on cue with your second feat) they have more than one die of sneak attack to play with. This means that I either need to bump them to a later selection (even with the bonus feats!) if I want to keep the "sacrifice a die" mechanic, or I do something like this... Draft 1 Psychic Feedback [Psionic] Prerequisites: Psychic Strike ability, Base Attack Bonus +4. Benefit: When a soulknife with this feat imbues his mind blade with psychic strike energy, he can choose to imbue it with a weaker, more specialized form that interferes with the target's neural pathways. The bonus damage die type becomes d4 instead of d8, but on a successful attack that deals psychic strike damage, the target must make a will save (DC 10+the total damage dealt by the psychic strike's extra dice) or become dazed for one round. Multiple psychic feedback attacks on the same target extend the duration of the daze, but the target gets a separate will saving throw against each attempt. Note that nothing stops the soulknife from imbuing the blade with a normal psychic strike, and if the case arises when they can imbue multiple blades or multiple times, they can mix and match the various types between the blades as they see fit. A psychic feedback attack that does no damage (such as one with the damage potential reduced to 0 extra dice, or one against an opponent immune to mind-affecting effects) has no effect. Normal: The soulknife imbues the blade with d8 dice, and has no extra effect attached to it. (note that this ability averages a DC of 12.5 when you can get it (level 6) and 15 after one level, at 7th. At 20th the DC averages 22.5. These are preliminary ideas only. I wanted the DC to reflect the nature of the attack rather than the ability of the soulknife in question, hence the lack of an ability modifier. To clarify: The DC bonus is the damage rolled on the extra psychic strike dice only, not including the mind blade itself, any enhancement, or bonus dice via sneak attack or psionic weapon. Plus, I liked the feel of the dynamic-saving-throw DC in 3.0, so I attached it here.) Psychic Overload [Psionic] Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +7, Psychic Strike ability. Benefit: As Psychic Feedback, but the modified psychic strike forgoes +1d4 points of damage, and the opponent must save or be stunned for 1 round. The duration stacks from multiple psychic strikes, exactly as it does for Psychic Feedback. Note that nothing stops the soulknife from imbuing the blade with a normal psychic strike, and if the case arises when they can imbue multiple blades or multiple times, they can mix and match the various types between the blades as they see fit. A psychic overload attack that does no damage (such as one with the damage potential reduced to 0 extra dice, or one against an opponent immune to mind-affecting effects) has no effect. Normal: The soulknife imbues the blade with d8 dice, and has no extra effect attached to it. (The loss of damage dice means that the DC sample will be the same as Psychic Feedback, but at a higher level.) Psychic Burnout [Psionic] Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +10, Psychic Strike ability. Benefit: As Psychic Overload, but the modified psychic strike forgoes +2d4 points of damage, and the opponent must save or be paralyzed for one round. The duration stacks from multiple psychic strikes, exactly as it does for Psychic Feedback. Note that nothing stops the soulknife from imbuing the blade with a normal psychic strike, and if the case arises when they can imbue multiple blades or multiple times, they can mix and match the various types between the blades as they see fit. A psychic burnout attack that does no damage (such as one with the damage potential reduced to 0 extra dice, or one against an opponent immune to mind-affecting effects) has no effect. Normal: The soulknife imbues the blade with d8 dice, and has no extra effect attached to it. (Again the DC sample is as Psychic Feedback) Those three covered the three major abilities I wanted for this, and they aren't prereqs for each other. The DCs are all based on a straight-classed soulknife getting these feats at the same level they qualify (as bonus feats). The full range of DCs are 15-30 at level 20 for feedback, 14-26 for overload, and 13-22 for burnout. Considerations: _Modify the DC by an ability modifier, possibly Charisma. _Modify the Base Attack prerequisite so they're all available at the same level. (the clause about the no-effect-if-zero-dice thing makes the more "powerful" ones less desirable at lower levels, and encourages straight-classing in a way, since it'll only work if you've got psychic strike damage to give up). Confirm this because the higher up you go, the easier it is to be immune to mind-affecting, stunning, or paralysis. _Alter the damage dice mechanic. Perhaps assess a per-die damage penalty, or design a feat that bumps these dice to d6s instead of d4s. Or maybe the different feats should each have different dice (d3, d4, d6?)... _Confirm that the whole stacking-duration thingy isn't too strong (perhaps a sentence about "only psychic strikes made within 1 round of the initial strike cause duration stacking" or the like... remember that 1/round is common at all but very high levels). ... That's all I can think of. And I'm going to be late if I stay here and keep typing. I'll come up with Draft 2 when I get a chance. The more feedback I get, the better -- even a complete rewrite (my feats tend to appear numerically balanced, and then someone finds a loophole to shut them down). If someone else wants to take a stab in it, then go ahead.
RadicalTaoist 09-23-04, 09:31 PM	K, I guess Mind into Steel doesn't make the cut. I assume Last Strike and Fill the Blade do? I like your feats, Tempest. An idea: make the save DCs augmentable with power points, expenditure of psionic focus, or Cha mod as you suggested. Them's feats could use the high DC in the higher levels.
BlaineTog 09-24-04, 02:27 AM	Update: added Last Strike, Fill the Blade, and Mindblade Kensai. MK, I feel, is balanced at 3 levels, especially since Last Strike was added as a tasty 20th level ability.
JiobiValen 09-24-04, 03:14 AM	Ok Blaine, you and the others took the time trying to fix this damn class (Which sorely needed it imo) so the only rightful thing to do is use it against my players and see if it kills them ;). Yes you heard me right, i'm going to fill a spot in my campaign with your work. I'll fill a complete story and have my players centered on fighting a bunch of these baddies so I can give you full feedback with any balance suggestions. Hope it turns out well and i'll post up anything I find! Happens i'll be DM'ing tomorrow so its time to start brainstorming if I can put them in that early. :D
Tempest Stormwind 09-24-04, 03:29 AM	I did a second run-through with a few new ideas. I altered the damage progression a bit, and renamed them to all have an "electric" feel. For ease of work, I've grouped them under a new subtype of feat, the [Feedback] feat. All [Feedback] feats are [Psionic] feats that have Psychic Strike as a prerequisite (like [Divine] or [Wild] feats). (Example listing: Psychic Feedback [Psionic, Feedback]). This is to serve as a CLARIFIER, not a new distinguishing characteristic (much as [Regional] was added to a bunch of Faerun feats and they serve as a collection of supplementary rules. This is essentially the same. The following paragraph would probably have a small sidebar or sub-paragraph in a Feats section of a book. Reread it -- I've edited the thing fully; it's not all pulled from the earlier versions. General notes on [Feedback] feats: _Nothing stops the soulknife from imbuing the blade with a normal psychic strike, and if the case arises when they can imbue multiple blades or imbue a blade multiple times, they can mix and match the various types they know between the blades as they see fit. This means that, for example, a soulknife with Psychic Interference and Psychic Feedback can imbue any individual mind blade he manifests with either a normal psychic strike, a dazing attack, or a stunning attack. _A psychic feedback attack that does no extra damage, such as one against an opponent immune to mind-afecting effects, does not trigger the secondary effect either. This works just like Knife to the Soul. _The duration on the condition bestowed is usually 1 round. Multiple feedback attacks do NOT freely stack, they overlap, with one exception -- multiple [Feedback] hits made within one round (count off initiative) of the initial strike, by the same soulknife, do stack. The opponent gets a separate save for each successful attack, as normal. _Knife To The Soul is compatible with these feats (removing d4s or d6s from the total damage as normal) and ability damage is considered normal damage for the purposes of DC. This means that a Knife to the Soul attack combined with one of the feedback feats results in a lower average DC, but does ability damage as well. Resolve damage to ability scores before the target rolls the Will save. _Other features of the class interact with [Feedback] feats exactly the same way they'd interact with Psychic Strike. This includes Last Strike, Bladewind, and Multiple Throw. So, with that in mind, the following are the next version of the feats. Draft 2 PSYCHIC INTERFERENCE [PSIONIC, FEEDBACK] You can charge your mind blade with a weaker, specialized form of energy that interferes with your opponents' neural pathways, dazing them. Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +4, Psychic Strike ability. Benefit: When imbuing your mind blade with a psychic strike, you can choose to imbue a specialized energy type instead. If you do, the bonus damage die type becomes d4 instead of d8, but on a successful attack that deals psychic strike damage, the target must make a Will save (DC 10+the total damage dealt by the extra psychic strike dice+your Charisma modifier) or become dazed for one round. If you expend your psionic focus during the imbuing process, the die type becomes d6 instead of d4. Normal: The soulknife imbues the blade with d8 dice, and has no extra effect attached to it. Special: See the [Feedback] feats "sidebar," above. PSYCHIC FEEDBACK [PSIONIC, FEEDBACK] You can charge your mind blade with a weaker, specialized form of energy that disrupts your opponents' neural pathways, stunning them. Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +7, Psychic Strike ability. Benefit: As Psychic Interference, except that you also forgo one die of damage, deal +1 damage per die, +1 damage total, and the opponent must make a Will save (DC 10+total damage dealt by extra psychic strike dice+your Charisma modifier) or be stunned for one round. Normal: The soulknife imbues the blade with d8 dice, and has no extra effect attached to it. Special: See the [Feedback] feats "sidebar," above. PSYCHIC OVERLOAD [PSIONIC, FEEDBACK] You can charge your mind blade with a weaker, specialized form of energy that overloads your opponents' neural pathways, paralyzing them. Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +10, Psychic Strike ability. Benefit: As Psychic Interference, except that you also forgo one die of damage, deal +2 damage per die, and the opponent must make a Will save (DC 10+total damage dealt by extra psychic strike dice+your Charisma modifier) or be paralyzed for one round. Normal: The soulknife imbues the blade with d8 dice, and has no extra effect attached to it. Special: See the [Feedback] feats "sidebar," above. Example: Xerxes, the 11th level soulknife with the Psychic Feedback feat, is in combat with an enemy bodyguard. He steps back and decides to imbue his mind blade with a psychic strike. He can choose to imbue a +3d8 psychic strike, as normal, or a +2d4+2 psychic feedback attack. He imbues the latter, expending his focus in the process to change the d4s to d6s, and makes a successful Throw Mind Blade attack against his foe. The extra psychic strike d6's roll as a 2 and a 5, so the psychic strike did 9 damage. The enemy fighter now must make a Will saving throw (DC 10 + 9 + 1, for Xerxes' Charisma of 12) or be stunned for one round. (The effect would have triggered regardless of the type of actual attack he chose -- however, the 5-foot-step + Imbue + Throw trick is an easy way to fire it off from nil in one round.) I ran them through the acid test, comparing them to regular psychic strike. I wanted, under an ideal situation, the choice to be like the choice between martial reach weapons -- the plainest one with no bells on to be the most effective at raw damage. Here's the result -- this is in DAMAGE (i.e. 10 lower than the DC). FEAT NAME Level Unfocused Focused Psych.Strike Interference 6 2.5 3.5 4.5 Interference 7 5 7 9 Interference 11 7.5 10.5 13.5 Interference 15 10 14 18 Interference 20 12.5 17.5 22.5 Feedback 10 4.5 5.5 9 Feedback 11 8 10 13.5 Feedback 15 11.5 14.5 18 Feedback 20 15 19 22.5 Overload 14 9 11 13.5 Overload 15 13.5 16.5 18 Overload 20 18 22 22.5 (Some feats at the various levels I looked at did identical damage (due to Psychic Strike's progression). I left them off the table.) As you can see, the damage under this assumption is weaker than psychic strike, sufficiently so that in a damage contest it'd matter, but not by so much that it shoud be discounted, particularily in the case of Overload (a feat available at 14th at EARLIEST deserves a bit of a kick). Plus, if you do imbue your blade this way, you have to refocus if you want to use any of your nifty [Psionic] feats, including the Psionic Weapon/Shot you probably have. If you feel indescision about powering up a [Feedback] feat or engaging one of those abilities, I think it's balanced. [EDIT resolved. I added 1 damage to the total from Psychic Feedback and it doesn't seem quite as bad.] Blaine, I think this is a success. The feats are all ready for final comments, formatted as yours are. And thanks for the Kensai feedback, by the way. (One last thing: With Exotic Shape Mind Blade, I'm wondering if you can mix-and-match weapons. You mentioned dual-weilding daggers (I'm all for adding "any light weapon you form can be dual-weilded, as the short sword above" to it), but what about longsword-shortsword or rapier-dagger?) Taoist: Thanks for the tip, I took it to heart. I wouldn't have thought of that specific method of using focus otherwise. And congratulations on your own addition! ...I just love the thought of one of these guys buddied up with a rogue (psionic or not), who tumbles in the center of the enemy formation and Bladewinds them with one of these feats... particularily if he took Exotic Mindblade Shape in the ranseur... :schemes:
Zarr2k 09-24-04, 06:39 AM	Woa! That is just candy for my eyes! Great job there. Just one thing balancewise. With the new feats and modifications to the class, the bonus feats might just be a tad on the overpowered side. I'd reduce them to at least 1 per 5 levels, instead of the current progression, since feats are the building blocks of especially the fighter and psywar... we don't want to move into their niches, now do we? Besides, in a straight comparison to the rogue, I'd probably deem it balanced without the bonus feats at all... hrm.. Ah well, great work there! :)
Celt 09-24-04, 01:08 PM	Blaine: I think I liked your first version better. The bonus feats are too much. I like the d8 HD, the skill changes, the changes to the enhancement progression, and the addition of more weapon abilities. I think the Last Strike is ok, but I would limit the second attack to within the same attack action (thus requiring the full attack action). I don't think the original soulknife was inherently underpowered, just not very versatile. There is one MAJOR plus they get that I think a lot of people might be overlooking... they will have much more gold than most other characters. Since they don't need to spend cash on magic weapons, they have it available to spend on other items. This increases if it is a low-magic or low-cash game. Therefore increasing their versatility may overpower them a bit. I like the Fill the Blade feat, but might knock the prereq down to +3d8 or even +2d8 (it's not that powerful). [SEE EDIT] The Exotic Mindblade Shape is iffy with me. The point of the mindblade is to be somewhat static, as in not very flexible. I might limit the choices to dagger, greatsword, kama, spear, battleaxe, and maybe one or two other unique choices. I wouldn't let a player min-max it so much that the can choose between a longsword, rapier, or scimitar; one of each fighting style is fine. Also, your reasoning for disallowing axes and blunt weapons is a bit flawed, since you are alowing greatswords. Claymores and other large, two-handed swords are not very sharp compared to a smaller, one-handed sword. The reason being the greatswords mass compensated nicely, and actually the weight of the sword is just as important as the weight of the axe. Don't take this as an insult, it's a perfectly reasonable judgement, just thought you might want to be fully consistent. Overall, I really like what you've done and the ideas you've generated. Very good work. [EDIT] On second thought, I might rather allowing the pychic strike to be charged as a free action at 20th. This would incorporate the last strike ability and the Fill the Blade feat into one, without the confusion of combining the two. [EDIT2] On third thought, that would be too powerful to get every attack with 4 points of ability damage. Doing this, I would amend the ability damage part to limit it to one attack per round, or 1 attack every 1d4 rounds (like a dragon's breath weapon). This starts getting very complicated. honestly, I think the class is fine with the d8, skills, enhancement progression, and new weapon ability choices you suggested.
RadicalTaoist 09-24-04, 01:24 PM	Tempest: Thank you and congratulations on your addition. I like the Feedback feats, but would make some prerequisites of each other, or give them more prerequisites. They're not overpowered but a little too easy to get. Celt: I was thinking that the damage from mindblades came from size. Greatswords are big. They take up space. Regardless of mass, that's a lot of sword, metal or mental, that's going through your body.
MaverickWolf 09-24-04, 01:44 PM	I'd like to make one or two suggestions. I'll probably make more later, but I only had time for a quick scan right now. Exotic Mindblade Shape should allow one to choose any 3 melee weapons one is proficient with. Obviously, double weapons would reduce enhancements just as dual daggers or dual shortswords. I don't think it's unbalancing, and it adds to the flavor. Perhaps a feat that allowed them to combine their choice of weapons for dual-wielding would be viable too....((Longsword/shortsword combo mindblade would be fun....)) Another feat idea could be one that allowed them to expand the list they choose from for enhancements. I'm out for now. -Maverick-
Ranevan 09-24-04, 03:37 PM	Here are a couple of feats I had posted on my PrC thread, but maybe these might apply to your fix, too. While I'm waiting - probably in vain - for some ideas on how to balance this class, how about a couple of new feats? Some of these are only variations of other feats so as to give them a soulknife flavor. Empower psychic strike (psionic) Prerequisite: psychic stike +2d8 Benefit: Three times per day when you use your psychic strike ability, you can deal an extra 50% damage as per the empower meta magic or meta psionic feats. You must choose to empower the strike at the time you charge your mind blade or when you project it with the project psychic strike trick. You may take this feat multiple times, each time gaining 3 more daily uses of empowered psychic strikes. Based on empower spell like ability from savage species. Quicken psychic strike (psionic) Prerequisite: mind blade +2 enhancement class ability Benefit: You may charge your psychic strike once per round as a free action. Based on quicken spell like ability, but without the 3 times a day limit since charging is only a move-equivilent action. Fearsome psychic strike (Psionic) Prerequisite: Psychic strike +1d8 Benefit: You may sacrifice some dice from your psychic strikes to cause fear in your opponents. If you sacrifice one die of damage, victims struck may become shaken for. If you instead sacrifice two dice, your opponents may become frightened. If you instead sacrifice three dice, your opponents may panic. The duration of the effects are 1d6 rounds per die removed. The save DC to resist these effects are 10 + 1/2 your character level + your cha modifier. Based on kiai shout and great kiai shout feats, which are area effects 3 times per day but limited to your HD as the highest amount of hd a creature can have and be effected. This is single target (usually) and not limited by target HD or uses per day. Maximize psychic strike (Psionic) Prerequisite: Psychic Strike +4d8 Benefit: Twice per day you can deal maximum damage with a psychic strike. For instance if you had the ability to deal 5d8 damage with a psychic strike you would automatically deal 40 damage with that strike. You must choose to maximize the strike when you charge your weapon or when you decide to project the psychic strike. You may take this feat more than once. Each time adds two more uses per day. I can't remember if I saw a maximize spell like ability somewhere before, but it seemed to follow with an empower feat there should be a maximize version. Non-lethal psychic strike (psionic) Prerequisite: psychic strike +1d8 Benefit: You may choose to have your psychic strike deal subual damage rather than lethal damage. Special: When charged with non-lethal damage, your mindblade will also deal non-lethal damage on a strike. Any other enhancements however still deal normal damage. Additionally, you add merciful to your list of available enhancements to your mindblade. Merciful counts as a +1 ability. A merciful weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of damage, but the extra d6 and the weapon's base damage are nonlethal.
Tempest Stormwind 09-24-04, 06:08 PM	Tempest: Thank you and congratulations on your addition. I like the Feedback feats, but would make some prerequisites of each other, or give them more prerequisites. They're not overpowered but a little too easy to get. Celt: I was thinking that the damage from mindblades came from size. Greatswords are big. They take up space. Regardless of mass, that's a lot of sword, metal or mental, that's going through your body. Thanks again. I agree they're powerful, but not as "required" as, say, Psychic Mediation or Up The Walls (many soulknives seem to take that one). I think they fall where feats should, on the most part. About the prerequisites, though... the Arterial Strike and Hamstring feats that inspired this have the same type of prerequisites, and they don't allow a saving throw. They also last as long as an average caltrop wound, and only cost one or two dice of damage (instead of lowering the entire damage potential). I staggered the attack bonus progression on the feats because paralyzing attacks are more potent than stunning ones which are more potent than dazing. I think the prereq's are fine, myself. My take on the whole mindblade thing -- nowhere in the class in the XPH does it say the mindblade is massless. In fact, it implies the opposite -- that the mind blade is "identical in all ways (except visually) to a short sword." You apply your strength modifier to damage rolls, even when you throw the weapon (which isn't the case for truly massless things, like the flames created by Produce Flame or touch attacks); if the blade had no mass then there wouldn't be any substance to carry the force of your strength, and you'd effectively have something like the pyro's Bolt of Fire. The bastard sword form requires 2 hands without special training -- and guess what, that's due to weight balance issues in the sword design, which wouldn't be an issue if the mindblade was massless. Therefore, axes, greatswords and even bludgeoning weapons are valid. I wouldn't put bludgeoners in the Exotic feat, myself, but that's a matter of preference. It just clears some stuff up. Zarr: That's a bit of backward logic. I mean, it's not like people said "Oh, my, we've got [Wild] feats now, time to scale back the druid." If the new feats are what's worrying you about the class, let's retool the feats rather than the class. I see the soulknife as between the rogue and the psywar -- and he is. He has fewer skills than the rogue and isn't as versatile, and his psychic strike is slower-progressing than sneak attack, but he's also supposed to be more combat-savvy. With an identical attack bonus, the way you emulate that is with either lots of class features (the soulknife doesn't have that many, actually) or bonus feats. The fighter, the master of this stuff, gets [Fighter] feats every 2 levels. The psywar was meant to be weaker than that but still capable, and gets them from an expanded list ([Psionic] and [Fighter]) every 3 levels. The soulknife is a bit more specialized, and has to choose them from the [Psionic] pool, and gets them at every 4 levels. I see it as okay, on the most part. I figured out a numeric way to handle the issue with Psychic Feedback (add 1 to the final damage). I've updated my post in its entirety, including removing all the OOC stuff in the "sidebar."
Urzza 09-24-04, 10:02 PM	Wow. Just wow. I love it. Here are some of my ideas. The abilty to make it so the knife count as soe sort of special materia when dealing with DR? (cold iron, ect.) Maybe insted of starting with them being short swords, there could be a list? Parhaps making it so if your useing two of them in the shape of a dagger, they get full enchant bouns? Differnt paths? like path one, combat, the enchatment bouns starts at level one and go's up every three levels, and a psionic path where the enchamts start latter, but he gets some psionic spells? well.. thats my imput. inclosing, I truely think you should work at WoTC.
BlaineTog 09-24-04, 10:23 PM	Woa! That is just candy for my eyes! Great job there.Muchos gracias [/badly mangled spanish]. Just one thing balancewise. With the new feats and modifications to the class, the bonus feats might just be a tad on the overpowered side. I'd reduce them to at least 1 per 5 levels, instead of the current progression, since feats are the building blocks of especially the fighter and psywar... we don't want to move into their niches, now do we?For extremely selfish reasons, I cannot switch to 1/5. Whats more, I do not think its really all that necessary. This is a feat-intensive class, and giving it bonus feats is just the thing to invigorate it. 1/5 is too few, IMO. Besides, in a straight comparison to the rogue, I'd probably deem it balanced without the bonus feats at all... hrm..I dunno about that. Sneak Attack is really, really sweet, and the rogue's skill list is much better than the Soul knive's (who also misses out on Evasion and Uncanny Dodge). Blaine: I think I liked your first version better. The bonus feats are too much.This guy has had bonus feats since I first posted it. I think the Last Strike is ok, but I would limit the second attack to within the same attack action (thus requiring the full attack action).A) What would this do to power it down? B) Seeing as its a 20th level ability, it should be good. There is one MAJOR plus they get that I think a lot of people might be overlooking... they will have much more gold than most other characters.Yeah, but thats not that great a plus (unless you're a thrower, in which case you're rolling in the dough. Not that you can make itinerant attacks until 17th level anyway...). This increases if it is a low-magic or low-cash game.True, but those are special cases. It is extremely difficult (read: impossible) to design classes that maintain a constant respective power level across radically campaigns. We should just balance it off the standard setting. The Exotic Mindblade Shape is iffy with me. The point of the mindblade is to be somewhat static, as in not very flexible. I might limit the choices to dagger, greatsword, kama, spear, battleaxe, and maybe one or two other unique choices. I wouldn't let a player min-max it so much that the can choose between a longsword, rapier, or scimitar; one of each fighting style is fine.Well, if they want to spend 2 feats to get the choice, then they should probably get some versatility. Also, your reasoning for disallowing axes and blunt weapons is a bit flawed, since you are alowing greatswords. Claymores and other large, two-handed swords are not very sharp compared to a smaller, one-handed sword. The reason being the greatswords mass compensated nicely, and actually the weight of the sword is just as important as the weight of the axe. Don't take this as an insult, it's a perfectly reasonable judgement, just thought you might want to be fully consistent.I know that the greatsword isn't very weigty, but I've always read it that its damage is more a function of being able to put your strength at the fulcrum of a long lever, that a heavier greatsword isn't necessarily a better idea. My take on the whole mindblade thing -- nowhere in the class in the XPH does it say the mindblade is massless.Well, on page 26, it calls it a "shimmering blade of semisolid phychic energy." Not technically massless, but the blade itself is only partially solid energy. Anyway, I'm starting to get worried that we're accumulating too many feats. Exotic Mindblade Shape is necessary for versatility/style, Fill the Blade [and Last Strike] for making Psychic Strike a better ability, and Mindblade Kensai for lessening the pain of multiclassing. These other feats are nice, of course, but they kinda seem to me to be a bit superfluous (not to knock them or anything). I'd like to try to keep the 1st post rather simple and direct, and as much as I like adding feats, thats not the way to do it. PS: I'm still enamored with the idea of a Soul-Knife thrower at early levels, so I was thinking: what if we let the Dagger be used with itinerant attacks, ranged feats (such as Rapid Shot, etc), and other such things with the following stipulations: its enhancement bonus is decreased by 3 (which stacks with the reduction from fighting with two of them; also, you cannot use it this way if its enhancement bonus would be reduced below +0) and its base range increment is 10 feet (these restrictions could be removed at 17th level)?
Tempest Stormwind 09-24-04, 10:27 PM	Wow. Just wow. I love it. Here are some of my ideas. The abilty to make it so the knife count as soe sort of special materia when dealing with DR? (cold iron, ect.) Maybe insted of starting with them being short swords, there could be a list? Parhaps making it so if your useing two of them in the shape of a dagger, they get full enchant bouns? Differnt paths? like path one, combat, the enchatment bouns starts at level one and go's up every three levels, and a psionic path where the enchamts start latter, but he gets some psionic spells? well.. thats my imput. inclosing, I truely think you should work at WoTC. Thanks! I'm as happy as you are that this seems to be working out. About your suggestions: 1) This is a critical weakness on the soulknife. However, I'm not sure if it should remain a weakness or not. If not, then simply adding Metalline to the list of abilities the blade can carry would solve it. Otherwise, sorry, no go. Still, you're not paying for a weapon, so use the extra money to buy a +1 Mettaline Morningstar of Sure Striking, which can bypass any DR except /Epic and /Slashing. Make it out of a special metal type (Aurorum or ferroplasm) if you want more options (those would respectively add immunity to sunder and inablility to be used by nonpsionic creatures). 2) Many people think this. I'm in the group that thinks it should stay a short sword, but you can customize it with Shape Mind Blade and further customize it with the use of feats. Not every fighter will have his weapon of choice at level 1 (notably those who use strangely exotic weapons), and virtually no combat character has their ideal nonenchanted armor before level 3 or so. I see no reason to give the soulknife extra versatility in this regard, especially since the short sword's a pretty decent weapon at level 1 for classes like this. 3) Hmmm... interesting idea. I'm still trying to figure out a few things about the way the new enchanting system works with this blade (can I get an ability on it without a +1 enhancement? If so, that solves most of the problems). However, since you're using 2 weapons and thus getting more attacks, I'd say the lower enhancement bonus is a valid tradeoff. 4) A +1 weapon at level 1 is overpowering by far. It's enough that your weapon automatically counts as a magic one. As for the psionic powers, you're looking at a PrC -- I'd suggest Blade Manifester from Hyperconcious, which (when combined with the Mindblade Kensai feat) doesn't harm your blade's enhancement bonus and only costs you 3 levels of other class features. Hope that helps clear up a few things.
Celt 09-24-04, 10:45 PM	This guy has had bonus feats since I first posted it. Oops. I must have missed it the first time around. Sorry. A) What would this do to power it down? B) Seeing as its a 20th level ability, it should be good. A) As written, he would be able to use it on AoO before his next turn. B) If the abilities already given at 20th level are already underpowered than I would agree. I think it's fairly balanced as is. Yeah, but thats not that great a plus (unless you're a thrower, in which case you're rolling in the dough. By 20th level you've saved 162,000 gp. That is a lot. It is extremely difficult (read: impossible) to design classes that maintain a constant respective power level across radically campaigns. We should just balance it off the standard setting. Agreed. I wasn't suggesting a change, just using an example to further my point. Well, if they want to spend 2 feats to get the choice, then they should probably get some versatility. Two feats? There's just EXOTIC MINDBLADE SHAPE, is there a prereq feat or something I'm missing somewhere? I know that the greatsword isn't very weigty, but I've always read it that its damage is more a function of being able to put your strength at the fulcrum of a long lever... That's how you swing an axe as well. I think you've done good work. I really do like it. I just don't think it needs as much oomph as you do. :tiphat:
Todd 09-24-04, 11:17 PM	PS: I'm still enamored with the idea of a Soul-Knife thrower at early levels, so I was thinking: what if we let the Dagger be used with itinerant attacks, ranged feats (such as Rapid Shot, etc), and other such things with the following stipulations: its enhancement bonus is decreased by 3 (which stacks with the reduction from fighting with two of them; also, you cannot use it this way if its enhancement bonus would be reduced below +0) and its base range increment is 10 feet (these restrictions could be removed at 17th level)? Not sure about removing restrictions at 17th, but overall this is an interesting idea. Seems to fit smoothly.
BlaineTog 09-25-04, 01:21 AM	By 20th level you've saved 162,000 gp. That is a lot.So he saves 20% of his money. Big deal. The wizard is saving far more. I'm not saying it isn't a good ability; it is. I'm just saying that its not so good that the class can survive off of just it. Two feats? There's just EXOTIC MINDBLADE SHAPE, is there a prereq feat or something I'm missing somewhere?He'd need to take it twice to get both the rapier and the scimitar (you mentioned being able to choose between the two). That's how you swing an axe as well.Except that an axe works more off of its mass than a sword. Oh well. The point isn't really all that important overall. Not sure about removing restrictions at 17th, but overall this is an interesting idea.Well, at 17th level, the feat becomes totally useless (which leads me to think that it should give you something else when you get Multiple Throw).
Urzza 09-25-04, 01:51 AM	well, the logic behind if you make two daggers, you get the full enchant bouns is that daggers arnt as good short swords. The one thing that have up on the, the fact that they can be throwen, if negated at level two.
BlaineTog 09-25-04, 02:09 AM	well, the logic behind if you make two daggers, you get the full enchant bouns is that daggers arnt as good short swords.Don't be so sure. The only real downside is a die drop, but in exchange, you get to pick your damage type on the fly (piercing or slashing).
Urzza 09-25-04, 02:15 AM	for the feat EXOTIC MINDBLADE SHAPE, do you need to be profishent in the weapon you change it to? like if I turned my weapon into a kama.
Tempest Stormwind 09-25-04, 02:51 AM	for the feat EXOTIC MINDBLADE SHAPE, do you need to be profishent in the weapon you change it to? like if I turned my weapon into a kama. Soulknives are automatically proficient with their mind blades, regardless of what form it's in. The feat as written doesn't mention anything about proficiency -- choose a form and off you go.
Dragos 09-25-04, 10:44 AM	I would figure its depending on the weapon form....seeing that when you convert it to bastard sword form...you hafta use it two handed in unless you have the exotic weapon proficiency feat so i figure its depending on on the normal capabliiteis of the weapon...i assume it works with martial weapon proficiencies....so if you could wield it as a martial weapon in any way...then its all good...but for any special rules (although i think the bastard sword it the only one with this special) then you need the appropriate feat
Celt 09-25-04, 11:05 AM	So he saves 20% of his money. Big deal. If you break it down at each level you'll see it's incredibly more of a big deal at the lower to mid levels: "Cost" Total Level of mindblade Char Wealth Percentage 4 2,000 5,400 37 6 8,000 13,000 61 8 18,000 27,000 67 10 32,000 49,000 65 12 50,000 88,000 57 14 72,000 150,000 48 16 98,000 260,000 38 18 128,000 440,000 29 20 162,000 760,000 21 At each level the value of the mindblade changes. It's way overpowered at the low-mid levels (peaking at level 8), then drops off in usefulness at the high end. I'll agree that ideally it should stay static (at a much lower rate than 60%), but 21% is nothing to sneeze at either. Take a 21% reduction from your paycheck and you'll see how much it really is. The wizard is saving far more. How exactly? I'm not saying it isn't a good ability; it is. I'm just saying that its not so good that the class can survive off of just it. There's also Psychic strike, Knife to the soul, Bladewind, Free draw, shape mind blade, etc... He'd need to take it twice to get both the rapier and the scimitar (you mentioned being able to choose between the two). I meant having a choice between the two, not being able to shape the blade into both. No matter. Soulknives are automatically proficient with their mind blades, regardless of what form it's in. They are not automatically proficient with shapes falling with the Exotic type. See the bastard sword example.
Tempest Stormwind 09-25-04, 12:41 PM	How exactly? They are not automatically proficient with shapes falling with the Exotic type. See the bastard sword example. The wizard has next to no need for weapons and no need for armor. Therefore, nearly 100% of her cash can go to magic items. Furthermore, they have Item Creation feats (which are accessable as bonus feats), which gives them all a whopping 50% discount on anything they can make. (Play an Artificer from Eberron to see how big a deal this is) The way I look at it, the Bastard Sword is a weapon people can have two degrees of proficiency in (only a few weapons can, and they all work the same way as the bastard sword -- 2 handed martial, or one-handed exotic). They are proficient with the sword 2-handed even without martial weapon proficiency. Seems to me they're proficient with it because it's their mind blade. Furthermore, I see the blade as actually having mass (see above). The Exotic Weapon (Bastard Sword) feat represents the training needed to handle such a heavy, awkward weapon in one hand (I'd give a precise real-life weight measurement, but I can't find a site that mentions it historically. There are too many replica makers online, you know that?) Since a person can indeed take Martial Weapon (Bastard Sword), I see no reason to see this as an exception -- it's a balance issue. They're already getting a free proficiency with it, but not the ideal one. Personally, I think it should have been greatsword, just because it gives fewer rule headaches (even though it's a stronger weapon, I think most of us agree that shortsword becomes longsword becomes greatsword strictly by sizing rules). But, it's bastard sword. As a result, I think the rule of thumb is "the minimum proficiency needed to properly weild the weapon." Kamas require Exotic by default, so you're emulating Exotic Weapon (Kama) with a mindblade kama (even though you don't actually have the feat). The trump line is "proficient with... their own mind blades." The bastard sword example is no exception -- they're proficient with the exotic weapon as a martial weapon, because that's easiest to emulate.
BetaFlame 09-25-04, 12:47 PM	I love it, and will probably replace my Drow assassin soulknife with this, assuming you dont mind? Also, making the Kukri split-able would be a good idea if you are going to make the dagger split-able. All-in-all, a great class :)
BlaineTog 09-25-04, 02:43 PM	How exactly?As Tempest said, they don't need weapons (or armor, for that matter). They also have item creation feats. There's also Psychic strike, Knife to the soul, Bladewind, Free draw, shape mind blade, etc...All of which are still just mind blade abilities. I meant having a choice between the two, not being able to shape the blade into both. No matter.Aighty. I love it, and will probably replace my Drow assassin soulknife with this, assuming you dont mind?Not at all! I posted this mainly to share it with ya'll. Also, making the Kukri split-able would be a good idea if you are going to make the dagger split-able.I'm not so sure about this. The Kukri is an exotic weapon, with good reason.
BetaFlame 09-25-04, 02:57 PM	Kukri's are also, technically, also not a throwing weapon. If I was going the melee route, I would prefer to use the twin short swords over the single kukri, or even twin daggers over a single kukri. I still probably require the appropriate EWP for Exotic Weapons though. I dont see how forming the image of the weapon mentally gives you the benifit of knowing how to use it. I was thinking of adding a feat that branches off the Exotic Mind Blade shape that allows you to form any one medium and any one small weapon, but with a -2 to the mindblade bonus, instead of the typical -1 split penalty.
RadicalTaoist 09-25-04, 04:06 PM	Items are way more useful to casters/mainfesters or classes with Use Magic Device. If this Soulknife had Use Magic/Psionic Device as a class skill, the extra gold would make it ridiculously powerful. As is, it is a noncaster class that can keep up. It's not the Soulknife's fault that the melee classes don't get as much bang for their buck as casters.
Celt 09-25-04, 08:30 PM	As Tempest said, they don't need weapons (or armor, for that matter). They also have item creation feats. To create an item they need to spend one or more feats as well as xp, it's a pretty even exchange. Though they don't need to buy weapons and armor they'll surely have to spend whatever gold they do save to buy or create wands and/or scrolls, otherwise they'll run out of spells fairly quickly. EDIT: Forgot to mention all of the cash tied up in maintaining a spellbook, buying material components, and scribing new spells into a spellbook.
Ranevan 09-26-04, 10:32 PM	Is kukri exotic or martial? I saw the kama was exotic...
Tempest Stormwind 09-26-04, 10:45 PM	Is kukri exotic or martial? I saw the kama was exotic... (edits in italics, thanks to Celt for clearing that up) In 3.0, it was Exotic, and for good reason (a light weapon with an 18-20/x2? Sign me up!). In 3.5, it's Martial, for reasons unknown to me. A curve on the INSIDE edge is really hard to learn to use, which suggests Exotic to me. However, it seems to work as a weapon on Exotic Mindblade Shape. The only problem? With kukris available, who would ever take dagger as an option? EDIT -- I had the opportunity to playtest my feats from the previous page. Numerically, they seem to work (even the staggered base attack prereqs), with one significant change -- using them over and over. I used a 2WF soulknife, and when I realized that something this simple could cause a nearly perpetual cycle of conditions while getting psychic strikes off all the time, it became necessary to trim the duration thingy. I also realized the whole [Feedback] classification thing was nothing but doubletalk. The only thing that needed clarification (once I changed the duration) was Knife to the Soul, and that was straightforward enough. Thus, the Final Draft of my feats. PSYCHIC INTERFERENCE [PSIONIC] You can charge your mind blade with a weaker, specialized form of energy that interferes with your opponents' neural pathways, dazing them. Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +4, Psychic Strike +1d8. Benefit: When imbuing your mind blade with a psychic strike, you can choose to imbue a specialized energy type instead. If you do, the bonus damage die type becomes d4 instead of d8, but on a successful attack that deals psychic strike damage, the target must make a Will save (DC 10 + the total damage dealt by the extra psychic strike dice + your Charisma modifier) or become dazed for one round. If you expend your psionic focus during the imbuing process, the die type becomes d6 instead of d4. Normal: The soulknife imbues the blade with d8 dice, and has no extra effect attached to it. Special: Knife to the Soul is fully compatible with this feat, reducing the damage dice rolled (and per-die bonus, if any) and adding ability damage as normal. Ability damage is treated as normal damage for the purpose of determining DC. Multiple attacks of this sort do not stack with themselves. PSYCHIC FEEDBACK [PSIONIC] You can charge your mind blade with a weaker, specialized form of energy that disrupts your opponents' neural pathways, stunning them. Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +7, Psychic Strike +2d8. Benefit: As Psychic Interference, except that you also forgo one die of damage, deal +1 damage per die, +1 damage total, and the opponent must make a Will save (DC 10 + total damage dealt by the extra psychic strike dice + your Charisma modifier) or be stunned for one round. Normal: The soulknife imbues the blade with d8 dice, and has no extra effect attached to it. Special: As Psychic Interference, above. PSYCHIC OVERLOAD [PSIONIC] You can charge your mind blade with a weaker, specialized form of energy that overloads your opponents' neural pathways, paralyzing them. Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +10, Psychic Strike +3d8. Benefit: As Psychic Interference, except that you also forgo one die of damage, deal +2 damage per die, and the opponent must make a Will save (DC 10 + total damage dealt by extra psychic strike dice + your Charisma modifier) or be paralyzed for one round. Normal: The soulknife imbues the blade with d8 dice, and has no extra effect attached to it. Special: As Psychic Interference, above. Example: Xerxes, the 11th level soulknife with the Psychic Feedback feat, is in combat with an enemy bodyguard. He steps back and decides to imbue his mind blade with a psychic strike. He can choose to imbue a +3d8 psychic strike, as normal, or a +2d4+3 psychic feedback attack. He imbues the latter, expending his focus in the process to change the d4s to d6s, and makes a successful Throw Mind Blade attack against his foe. The extra psychic strike d6's roll as a 2 and a 4, so the psychic strike did 9 damage. The enemy bodyguard now must make a Will saving throw (DC 10 + 9 + 1, for Xerxes' Charisma of 12) or be stunned for one round. Sorry if it seems like I'm flaunting these feats, this is the last I'll post them. I just wanted to relay that with these modifications, they seemed to work well enough. Furthermore, because they aren't prereqs of each other, you don't need to use all 3 if you don't want to. They make you rethink your Charisma score a bit from what the as-written Soulknife does... but then again, so does Blaine's version (with a few more Charisma-based skills).
Celt 09-26-04, 11:33 PM	Is kukri exotic or martial? I saw the kama was exotic... 3.0 It was Exotic. 3.5 It is Martial.
Ranevan 09-26-04, 11:40 PM	Okay, just checking.
BlaineTog 09-26-04, 11:51 PM	PSYCHIC FEEDBACK [PSIONIC] You can charge your mind blade with a weaker, specialized form of energy that disrupts your opponents' neural pathways, stunning them. Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +7, Psychic Strike +2d8. Benefit: As Psychic Interference, except that you also forgo one die of damage, deal +1 damage per die, +1 damage total, and the opponent must make a Will save (DC 10 + total damage dealt by the extra psychic strike dice + your Charisma modifier) or be stunned for one round. Normal: The soulknife imbues the blade with d8 dice, and has no extra effect attached to it. Special: As Psychic Interference, above.This seems overpowered to me. As I read it, you end up dealing damage as Psychic Interfereance as if you had maximized the die lost and added an extra point of damage ontop of handing out an even sweeter status change (whats more, those extra points can count as extra ability point damage, making this truly broken. 9 points of ability damage with one attack and no save? Sign me up!). [size=+1]PSYCHIC OVERLOAD [PSIONIC] You can charge your mind blade with a weaker, specialized form of energy that overloads your opponents' neural pathways, paralyzing them. Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +10, Psychic Strike +3d8. Benefit: As Psychic Interference, except that you also forgo one die of damage, deal +2 damage per die, and the opponent must make a Will save (DC 10 + total damage dealt by extra psychic strike dice + your Charisma modifier) or be paralyzed for one round. Normal: The soulknife imbues the blade with d8 dice, and has no extra effect attached to it. Special: As Psychic Interference, above.You effectivelly give up one die of damage and then add 2 points in order to paralyze someone for a round (this can also deal 14 points of ability damage).
Tempest Stormwind 09-27-04, 02:55 AM	About the ability damage: You're miscalculating it. Reread how I wrote Knife to the Soul working with these. For example, with Feedback, and a 4d8 base PS: The strike becomes 3d4+4 (it only seems maximized at very high levels, it's available far before that, and by these points mind blank is even more abundant anyway). If you use 1 die with Knife to the Soul, it becomes +2d4+3, +1 ability damage (saves as 2d4+4). If you use 2 dice, it's +1d4+2, +2 ability damage (saves as 1d4+4), and if you use 3, it's +1, +3 ability damage (saves as 4. Yes, 4. As in, 14+cha). And if you don't take damage from the psychic strike (as in you're immune to mind-affecting), it doesn't kick in at all. Plus, look at the DCs. I worked out the numbers on the first page for you. If you think they're a tad high (and for fighter-types, they are -- and mind blank items are quite popular among these guys), I can rework the way they work (again), even though I didn't have a problem with it one way or the other. My initial impression for a big nerf would be 10 + twice the number of damage dice after feat modifications + CHA mod, with a slight adjustment to account for Feedback and Overload using the same number of dice. I'm not going to have a chance to test that one for a while, though. Or I could throw all this work out the window and just do "the psionic Arterial Strike" or "The psionic Hamstring." I've already made it clear, though, that "the psionic X" isn't a direction I like to see any development take.
kasthevampire 09-27-04, 06:42 PM	exelent class i love that feat that lets them shape it into other weapons.
Lord_Anthrax 11-01-04, 06:46 PM	You guys want Soulknife stuff? I've got some of my own, including some nifty stuff for Epic Soulknives. :cool: Aligned Mind Blade[Psionic][Epic] Your mind blade becomes infused with an alignment-based enhancement. Prerequisites: Mind blade enhancement bonus +6, Aligned Attack, Epic Psionic Focus. Benefit: Your mind blade has the traits of an Anarchic, Axiomatic, Holy or Unholy weapon as per the DMG, depending on the alignment chosen with the Aligned Attack feat. Autocharge Mind Blade[Psionic][Epic] You can recharge your mind blade with psychic strike at incredible speed. Prerequisites: Concentration 30 ranks, Epic Psionic Focus, Recharge Mind Blade. Benefit: As long as you maintain your psionic focus, you can recharge your mind blade once per round as a free action with a psychic strike. Normal: It takes a move action to recharge a mind blade, or can be done as a free action once per round by using the Recharge Mind Blade feat. Bladestorm[Psionic][Epic] You can transform your mind blade into a swirling cloud of razor-edged blades. Prerequisites: Concentration 30 ranks, Epic Mind Blade, Improved Bladewind. Benefit: As a full-round action, you can transform your mind blade into a swirling vortex of cutting planes of psychic force. While you do so, you can make a single attack against every target you choose within a radius equal to 1 foot per rank you have in the Concentration skill. After you do so, you are fatigued for the remainder of the encounter. You must expend your psionic focus to use this feat. Epic Mind Blade[Psionic][Epic] The power of your mind blade is legendary. Prerequisites: Mind blade enhancement bonus +6, Concentration 24 ranks, Epic Psionic Focus, Improved Mind Blade. Benefit: Your mind blade damage increases as if it were one size class larger than normal. You may also manifest your mind blade as a pair of Bastard Swords if you have the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat for it. You take no enhancement penalty for doing so. Improved Bladewind[Psionic][Epic] Your bladewind ability can strike down multiple foes. Prerequisites: Mind blade enhancement +5, Epic Psionic Focus. Benefit: If you expend your psionic focus, you may use your bladewind ability as a standard action, which means you may move either before or after making a single attack. At your option, you may make a full attack against every foe in your reach instead. You lose the benefits of feats that grant extra attacks, such as Cleave and Great Cleave, when you use this feat. Improved Mind Blade[Psionic] Your ability to shape your mind blade is more versatile. Prerequisites: Concentration 12 ranks, shape mind blade class ability. Benefit: You may now reshape your mind blade into the equivalent of a Greatsword sized for you. Alternatively, you may also manifest your mind blade as a pair of Long Swords. The enhancement bonus is 1 less than it would normally be. Finally, if you choose to manifest your mind blade as a pair of Short Swords, you take no enhancement penalty for doing so. Incorporeal Mind Blade[Psionic][Epic] Your mind blade strikes incorporeal targets as surely as corporeal ones. Prerequisites: Mind blade enhancement bonus +6, Epic Psionic Focus, Ghost Attack. Benefit: Your mind blade gains the properties of a Ghost Touch weapon, allowing it to strike incorporeal foes without a miss chance. Multicharge Mind Blade[Psionic][Epic] Your mind blade can regain psychic strike charges at even greater speed. Prerequisites: Concentration 30 ranks, Epic Psionic Focus, Autocharge Mind Blade. Benefit: As long as you retain your psionic focus, you can recharge your mind blade with a psychic strike one time per round. This stacks with the Autocharge Mind Blade feat. Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you take it, you can recharge your mind blade one additional time per round. Recharge Mind Blade[Psionic] You can hasten the return of your Psychic Strike charge within your mind blade. Prerequisites: Psionic Meditation, Concentration 15 ranks. Benefit: Once per round as a free action, you can expend your psionic focus to recharge your mind blade with a psychic strike. Normal: You must take a move action to recharge your mind blade with a psychic strike. Reforge Mind Blade[Psionic][Epic] You can change the enhancements upon your mind blade quickly in times of need. Prerequisites: Concentration 27 ranks, Epic Psionic Focus, Improved Mind Blade, Psionic Meditation. Benefit: As a full-round action that provokes an attack of opportunity, you may expend your psionic focus to change the selected enhancements upon your mind blade to others of your choosing. After doing so, you are fatigued for the remainder of the encounter. Wounding Mind Blade[Psionic][Epic] Your mind blade inflicts vicious wounds against your foes. Prerequisites: Mind blade enhancement bonus +6, Epic Psionic Focus, Wounding Attack. Benefit: Your mind blade gains the Wounding enhancement, and deals 1 point of Constitution damage in addition to its normal damage each time it strikes. Creatures immune to critical hits do not take this ability damage.
TwoSix26 11-08-04, 12:50 PM	Just curious...If I wanted to make the soulknife more of a primary combatant, and give the class full BAB, would lowering the skill points to (2+Int) be reasonably balanced?
ElecWolf 11-08-04, 04:05 PM	So far in the "World's Largest Dungeon", I've taken your Soul Knife up to 5th level. Just added PsyWar onto it since the spellcaster won't cast buff spells on me since my damage is way lower than the dwarven fighters... Forgot to take Psychic Meditation... I'm liking it, but the low BAB is really hurting. I'm working my way to Elocator just to get a few more tricks in the bag, the DM agreed to the Soul Knife Kensai feat. So I'm not as hurting as I could be... I think the big help is that "WLD" keeps you low on resources...
saethar 11-15-04, 09:59 PM	Do you think a double-bladed sword would work for Exotic Mindblade Shape? It would need the same penalties as two daggers or two shortswords... Saethar :b:
BlaineTog 11-16-04, 12:17 AM	*sigh* You know, I think I'm going to re-work the feat to just let it allow anything.
saethar 11-16-04, 12:32 AM	*sigh* You know, I think I'm going to re-work the feat to just let it allow anything.Such an air of defeat ;) Personally I would still require EWP for weapons which would normally require them. Still, could you imagine a dwarven soul-knife who wouldn't use a dwarven war-axe (from an RP PoV that is)? Saethar :b:
Tempest Stormwind 11-16-04, 12:46 AM	If you take it, it's like an exotic weapon proficiency already (costs a feat). So, "any weapon" doesn't seem like a bad choice. I'd still say "any weapon that's a single, solid piece" (so things like nunchuku, gyrspikes, and above all else, spiked chains are a no-no), but YMMV. By the way, I redid the whole feedback system a long time ago to something more static, and it seemed to work. The variable-DC thing was their downfall, I think. I won't push them back here unless people seem interested.
MaverickWolf 11-16-04, 08:05 AM	Make it any melee weapon you're proficient with, and give them martial weapon proficiency to make it worth it. If they want anything else, they've got other feats to get them.
al29902 11-27-04, 09:19 PM	Bravo! I was a bit wary at first (I hate powergamers!) but this is an excellent class. Thank you, BlaineTog: you've converted me.
Jell_Moo 11-27-04, 10:54 PM	Wow BlaineTog (spending extra time to make sure the name gets spelled right), I really like this. My first reaction when I saw the Soulknife was much like everybody else's. This needs a full BAB. But I've seen the light, so to speak. As a stealthier, more skill based class, this rocks. Powerwise it's still the slightest bit on the weak side, but it looks to be a riot to play. Two things: 1) Do you think it would break the class to allow it to change it's mind blade abilities? Instead of taking 8 hours, would it be possible to switch from say Frost to Flaming in a much shorter period of time? 2) While I personally think it the mind blade should be restricted to blade like forms (I agree with the idea of it lacking the required mass to be an effective axe, hammer, mace, etc...), wouldn't it be awesome if it could take the form of a bow, and therefore allow me to play that Ranger dude from the old D&D cartoon? That would be hella cool.
BlaineTog 11-27-04, 11:20 PM	Bravo! I was a bit wary at first (I hate powergamers!) but this is an excellent class. Thank you, BlaineTog: you've converted me.and Wow BlaineTog (spending extra time to make sure the name gets spelled right), I really like this. My first reaction when I saw the Soulknife was much like everybody else's. This needs a full BAB. But I've seen the light, so to speak. As a stealthier, more skill based class, this rocks.Thank you both. Glad ya like it! 1) Do you think it would break the class to allow it to change it's mind blade abilities? Instead of taking 8 hours, would it be possible to switch from say Frost to Flaming in a much shorter period of time?My trepidation here is that being able to change the weapon abilities at all is a major boon. Thus, changing it should take so much time that you can't generally modify it for every new day. However, I'd like to hear more about what you specifically had in mind. If you're basically suggesting being able to more freely switch between a smaller number of abilities, then it'll probably be allright. 2) While I personally think it the mind blade should be restricted to blade like forms (I agree with the idea of it lacking the required mass to be an effective axe, hammer, mace, etc...), wouldn't it be awesome if it could take the form of a bow, and therefore allow me to play that Ranger dude from the old D&D cartoon? That would be hella cool.Hmmm.... I don't know. Perhaps it would work as a variant (much of the current abilities are geared towards melee).
saethar 11-27-04, 11:25 PM	2) While I personally think it the mind blade should be restricted to blade like forms (I agree with the idea of it lacking the required mass to be an effective axe, hammer, mace, etc...), wouldn't it be awesome if it could take the form of a bow, and therefore allow me to play that Ranger dude from the old D&D cartoon? That would be hella cool.If it lacks the mass to be an effective axe/hammer/etc... then I would want to be able to apply Weapon Finesse to it, even in the "longsword" or "bastard sword" form. Saethar :b:
saethar 11-27-04, 11:27 PM	My trepidation here is that being able to change the weapon abilities at all is a major boon. Thus, changing it should take so much time that you can't generally modify it for every new day. However, I'd like to hear more about what you specifically had in mind. If you're basically suggesting being able to more freely switch between a smaller number of abilities, then it'll probably be allright.Maybe take an effective -2 on the enhancement for a full action change, once per 24 hours? or something similar :D Saethar :b:
Roxlimn 11-28-04, 12:54 AM	Jell_Moo: I do not believe that allowing the class to change up its mindblade properties will be overpowering. No more so than Energy Substitution or similar spell-altering tricks for Sorcerers and Bards. You just have to factor in the fact that the Soulknife now always has the optimum mindblade for the job, instead of a generically useful magic blade. Since most weapon special abilities are designed and balanced on the predication that they are unchangeable, many of them are generally useful anyway, not specifically powerful. Some abilities, however are more powerful if you can only summon them when you need them, such as Suppressing and Mindcrusher. These special abilities will have to be reevaluated in terms of relative strength when you put them in the hands of a Soulknife who can change up his mindblade at will. Further, I don't think you should be looking at the Mindblade to take over something like Hank's role in the classic D&D cartoon. That is something I'm more partial to give to the Arcane Archer and its Psionic equivalent.
Doomhawk 11-28-04, 12:55 AM	Well, if it were Eberron, I'd say the expenditure of an action point (or maybe two?) would be a fair price for changing the abilities as a full-round action. Of course, if you don't play in Eberron, that's not so helpful. What if rapidly changing the abilities required some kind of mechanic with a very high-DC concentration check (so expending focus, for the "take 15" feature, would be very beneficial - seems kinda fitting) to change the abilities, as a full-round action, and lasts for a small amount of time (say, 1 minute? maybe 10 minutes?). This would allow some flexibility, but without making it too easy to change abilities. Saethar's idea I like, but since it would be unusable until the Soulknife got weapon enhancement +3 it's not so great IMO.
Paedan 11-28-04, 10:55 AM	Here is my suggestion to 'fix' the class (in terms of game mechanics, so that they'd be more fun to play... mostly, more effective in melee): Choice of alternate Mind blade shapes at 2nd level (as opposed to just short swords), and "Mind Blade Styles" with bonus feat progressions similar to the Ranger's fighting style. Allows players who want to play two-weapon fighting or two-handed weapon Soulknives earlier. Also gives benefits for going one-handed melee or as a thrown weapon specialist, instead of the majority playing two-handed bastard sword wielders. The disadvantage of this fix is that the levels at which the Soulknives get bonus feats will have to be reworked, to something similar to how a Ranger gains relevant bonus feats based on his fighting style. The main styles below would would have a progression like this (btw I don't have my PHB with me, so the level progressions below are when I think it would be appropriate for the Soulknife to receive these feats based on BAB and other class features): Twin Mind-blade Style (Damage and size as Short swords. When charging Psychic Strike as a move equivalent action, they can charge both their mind blades at once. Rule of 1 less plus for each mind blade unchanged.) Bonus Feat at 2nd level = Two Weapon Fighting Bonus Feat at 5th level = (Lessen penalty for TWF to -1) Replacement for Bladewind at 9th level = (Negate penalty for TWF) Bonus Feat at 12th level = Improved Two Weapon Fighting Replacement for Multiple Throw at 17th level = (Two Weapon Rend) *Note the above feats don't benefit this style of Soulknife if he tries to throw his mind-blades. Thrown Mind-blade Style (Size and Damage as Shortsword, off hand free for shield or whatever character desires, for spellcasting in multiclass, etc...) Bonus Feat at 2nd level = Point-Blank Shot Bonus Feat at 5th level = Precise Shot Replacement for Bladewind at 9th level = Multiple Throw (btw, shouldn't he be able to do so at 8th level thanks to the Free Draw ability?) Bonus Feat at 12th level = (Increase Range Increment to 60 feet) Replacement for Multiple Throw at 17th level = (Once per day, throw a mind blade at any number of targets within 60 feet, like that Order of the Bow Initiate ability). One-handed Mind blade Style (Size and Damage as Longsword, off hand free for shield or whatever character desires, for spellcasting in multiclass, etc...) Bonus Feat at 2nd level = Bonus Fighter or Psionic Feat Bonus Feat at 5th level = Bonus Fighter or Psionic Feat Keep Bladewind at 9th level Bonus Feat at 12th level = Weapon Specialization - Mind Blade Replacement for Multiple Throw at 17th level = (Speed Weapon Quality, in addition to Mind Blade Enhancements) *Differs from the Thrown Style above by allowing more damage in melee and more room for customization. Two-handed Mind blade Style (Size and Damage as Bastard sword, mind blade has to be wielded two-handed unless character has EWP - Bastard Sword.) Bonus Feat at 2nd level = Power Attack Bonus Feat at 5th level = Deep Impact (Even if the character doesn't have the necessary prerequisites) Keep Bladewind at 9th level Bonus Feat at 12th level = (Improved Power Attack, 3 to 1, with Two-handed Mind blade only.) Replacement for Multiple Throw at 17th level = (Deep Impact Psionic Focus -> You may gain a special Psionic Focus as a move action, which can only be expended for Deep Impact. If you already have Psionic Meditation, you may gain this special Psionic Focus as a swift action). The above is only version 1.0, I'll make changes as new ideas come up... please feel free to make constructive comments **************************************** ********* And a few ideas after reading the previous posts: (1.) How about making Last Strike automatically having a successful Psychic Strike automatically deal the same dice/ability score damage in the following round (like that old Epic Feat for Rogue Sneak Attacks)? (2.) Should make a feat or ability so that a Soulknife can change the special quality enhancements on his mind blade as a move action (or maybe even a standard or full-attack action in case game balance is in question), requiring a Concentration check, DC 25. Without the need for 8 hours of rest and preparation, being able to respond and adapt to threats, this would give the Soulknife a slight boost in power. (3.) I think you may want to consider keeping the original enhancements and pluses progression... 12th level is a little too early to receive a +5 bastard sword...
Jell_Moo 11-28-04, 11:47 AM	I was mostly kidding about the Soul Knife playing the archer/D&D cartoon. I don't actually want a Soul Knife archer, I just wanted to mention the D&D cartoon! :D I personally have no problem with Weapon Finesse going onto the Mind Blade. The only one that I would have a problem with is if the Bastard Sword was used two handed. But I digress... As for the switching of abilities on the mind blade, I'm not sure... My thought was to allow minor switching of abilities. Simple things like Flaming to Frost if you happen to run across a red dragon or some such thing. I've been thinking that maybe a feat could help out with that. Something like: Fast Mind Blade Switching Type Thingy: [Ok, maybe the name needs work] Prereqs: Ability to manifest a Mind Blade with a +2 enhancement bonus. Benefit: The Soul Knife may expend his psionic focus in order to switch one of his lesser mind blade abilities for another as a Full Round action. The Soul Knife is limited to abilities equivalent to +1. For Eaxmple: The Soul Knife during combat encounters a creatures immune to the flaming effect (a +1 ability) his Mind Blade currently has. He decides to expend his psionic focus and spend a full round action changing that bonus to Frost (also a +1 bonus). Normal: It usually takes 8 hours, blah blah blah... What's the thought on this? It gives a little more flexibility to the Mind Blade (since there are a plethora of nice +1 powers), but doesn't exactly overpower him, at least not IMHO. Opinions?
MaverickWolf 11-28-04, 12:50 PM	Some MindBlade Feats Just a few feats. They'd take some adjustment to work with this class, but I figured I'd post them. Maybe they'll give some inspiration for ideas.
Ynshantys 11-28-04, 01:06 PM	For your Mindblade Kensai I would borrow from the Complete Arcane Practiced Spellcaster feat. But I think it should look something like this: MINDBLADE KENSAI [PSIONIC] Your mindblade continues to improve despite the following of a different path. Prerequisite: Free Draw soulknife ability. Benefit: Your effective Soul Knife level for determining mind blade enhancement and enhancement bonuses is increased by 4. This doesn't applies to mind blade techniques (Bladewind, Knife to the Soul, Multiple Throw), nor does it increase psychic strike or add any bonus Soul Knife feats. This benefit can't increase your effective level to higher than your Hit Dice. However, even if you can't benefit from the full bonus immediately, if you later gain Hit Dice in levels of non-Soul Knife classes, you will be able to apply the rest of the bonus. Special: You may only select this feat once. This would help races with LA and still alleviate some of the multi-class problems without having someone take the feat five times and being SK 1/PW 19. Practiced Spellcaster FYI only applies to a single spellcasting class once, each time you take it, it has to apply to a different spellcasting class. Since there is only one SK it can only be taken once.
Grigori 11-29-04, 02:41 AM	:plotting: I definitly like it... My only (slight) reservation is on the number of powers you can imbue your mindblade with... Any number of powers up to your enhancement bonus seems a little extreme to me... Have you considered putting a slight limit on it? A number equal to your Int or Wis modifier perhaps? Just a thought...
Wizardman 11-29-04, 05:08 AM	First of all, the amount of thought and time that you have put into this shows. Good job, and great fix! Just one thing, though. Have you ever thought of allowing soulknife levels to count as manifester levels for certain PrC's? For some PrC's a soulknife just wouldn't work anyway (Cerebemancer, Metamind, Psion Uncarnate, Thrallherd), but there's no reason why there can't be a soulknife/elocator or soulknife/Illithid Slayer (IMO, at least).
Tempest Stormwind 11-29-04, 11:35 AM	For your Mindblade Kensai I would borrow from the Complete Arcane Practiced Spellcaster feat. But I think it should look something like this: *snip* Read the debates on it earlier. We lowered it to three by consensus. Then again, the "take multiple times" line was there from the get-go... If you want to be a soulknife elocator, dip any of the manifesters. A soulknife already can be an illithid slayer, but doesn't gain anything from the extra manifester levels (this is one class that you should have no issues convincing a DM to stack with soulknife for the blade, though).
Boxxie 12-11-04, 02:33 PM	ok this is a very good idea but i think that the Soul-Knife was pretty good and i play with nothing but mid-maxxers. if the Soul-Knife had a fighters attack bonus it would be alot better. just a thought :plotting: :dancin:
MushroomSpore 12-12-04, 11:11 PM	A question that I can't find an answer to, either in your SK text or the EPH's: If you use Shape Mind Blade to create two blades, can you imbue both to Psychic Strike? Obviously, only one per move action, so it would be two move actions to prepare this insanity. Not too useful during combat, but could be a nasty first strike if you're hiding and getting ready. (Especially against enemy spellcasters once you have Knife to the Soul, eh? :P) Maybe do something like the enhancement bonuses for dual blades-each Psychic Strike would do one less die of damage if both are charged up. At any rate, I absolutely adore your Soulknife class. Who would have thought a few relatively minor fixes could turn an inflexible class with a horribly vague role into an awesomely cool stealthy warrior with style out the wazoo? :D I'm begging my DM to adopt this version (ironically enough, for the World's Largest Dungeon. I giggled when the WLD was brought up in this thread). Xeph becomes an even better race to have the SK as a favored class now. Str -2, Dex +2, Darkvision, and a speed-boosting ability...and the Soulknife designers didn't think they should make the class slightly more rogue-like? What WERE they thinking? :confused:
SuperThread 12-13-04, 12:46 AM	Quite nice. I envision the Soulknife as working in an entirely different way (mechanics-wise), but as I don't have time to go into it here I'll simply say: you certainly hit a target, even if it wasn't mine. ;) Really, my problem with it is that it still screws over throwers, multiclassers and anything with LA. My personal solution is to a) let the Soulknife get Multiple Throw the same time he gets Free Draw and b) simply make the Mindblade work the same way as a(n OA) Samurai's Ancestral Daisho– you sacrifice gold to power it up. Much less discrimination and you don't end up with the whole "its primary power is just getting an extra couple hundred thousand gold to spend". Of course, such a change is a major nerf to the class, and requires some powerup to balance out. But I digress. You've done an excellent job here. :)
Save-vs-DM 12-24-04, 12:27 PM	If all goes well, I hope to be using this version in the next game I get to play in (hooray for mulitple DMs, I get to play!). I really like this class - the minor tweaks just help so much. My only wish would be that I could take a few powers (if I can take the kensai feat I might dip a few levels of Psychic Warrior). Cheers, SvD
Katal3 01-19-05, 01:40 AM	(Deleted Due to Double Posting, See Below) | | | V V V
Katal3 01-19-05, 01:40 AM	I too am a Convert, the old Soulknife was slightly underpowered, though much like the 3.0 monk in that regard, but I'm planning on pleeding with my DM to let me use this version instead of the standard becasue it has soooooo much more Mechanics flavor amd ,pre versatility even early on, and though its still hurt by Multi Classing or LA+s its not as bad and the Mind Blade Kensei (sp?) feat seriously helps with the Multiclassing problem :) Oh and By the Way, Mind Blades Do have mass, I base this on two reasons, the text specifically states that the mind blade is identical to the form it takes in all ways, and because you can add The Collision Ability to it... you can't increase the mass of somthing that has no mass to startwith, the description in the XPH where it states that the blade is semisolid does not prove that it has no mass, after all in a way Water could easily be considered at semi-solid, and yet it still has mass. the Semi-solid reference was mearly to ingrain the Mutable nature of hte blade in the minds of the player. still though, Great Class, much better then the origional, and certainly worth taking, BTW Tempest, mind sending me those feats, I have the latest version you posted on the thread but I'm very interested in them and what you changed. :)
Katal3 01-19-05, 04:41 PM	Oh and As far as the Aditional mind blade shapes go I think as writen by BlaineTog it requires the player first be Profecient with the new Shape, thus if they want a Scythe Mind Blade they first must spend a feat to be proficient then another to change thier blade into it, this in my oppinion is perfect because it means if you was a Kurki rather then a Dagger you have to blow another feat.. (Please forgive me if one of you already mentioned this and I'm jsut repeating)
Sir Elton 01-20-05, 02:25 PM	Is this Open Content?
Digitalblueshift 01-21-05, 01:03 AM	I wanted to play a soulknife too. LOVED the Idea of playing what amounts to a jedi. Except the fact that the soulknife couldn't take psionic powers. What I would havbe liked to see was a feat like this... Soulknife power awakening {psionic} Prerequsite: Ability to create and shape a mind blade Benefit: By taking this feat you awaken to previously unknown psionic powers. You gain a Power point reserve of 5, in addition to those provided by other feats and your race) and can choose 3 powers from either the Psychic warrior list or from the Psion list, with a manifester level equal to your wisdom modifier. All powers must be chosen when the feat is taken. For each level you attain after taking this feat you gain one additional Power point. If you do not have enough power points to manifest the powers you choose they simply remain unusable until you do. Special: The second time you take this feat the powers you awaken to drops to 2 - you can choose a different source the second time, this feat cannot be taken a third time. You do not gain the benefit of additional power points when taking this feat a second time, however the number of power point you gain each level increases to 2. It would allow the soulknife class to manifest powers more easily while still limiting you both on how many powers you use and how often you can use them. If taken twice @ lvl4 and 5 it would give you roughly the same amount of pp/day as a psychic warrior, but you would only know 5 powers. Additionally you wouldnt have been able to pump up your wisdom score enough to reach the really high level powers, but you could use telekinetic thrust, etc... I also like the idea of being able to switch the enhancement on the blade for one of the same or lower level as a standard action or a full round action, as another feat. Mind blade substitution Prereq: ability to create and enhance a mind blade. Benefit: By expending you psionic focus you gain the ability to change the enhancement on your mind blade. You can switch the enhancement on the blade for one of an equal or lower level. The effect is identical to the Mind blade enhancement ability except that it manifests as a full round action instead of 8 hours. Special: This feat cannot be used again to alter the mind blade's enhancement until the soulknife has spent eh required 8 hours in concentration as per the Mind Blade enhancement ability. Again the ability to change but not abuse it, Better make a good choice. And finally insofar as the discussion on the exotic weapon shape Ill toss my few cents in as well... Add martial weapon shape and exotic weapon shape as two psionic feats with prerequisites martial weapon proficiency and exotic weapon proficiency respectivley in the same weapon. I think the thing here is that the mind blade must be proficient with his own blade, the way I look at it as long as the Mind blade is a straight blade, dagger, short, long, bastard, great, even a rapier fits there, the "shape mind blade" ability covers it, beyond this anything else but a straight blade requires some serious thought as how to energize it, and a feat to do it. And I think anything goes here, after all we are creating a semi solid "blade" of energy here Arguing over wheteher it articulates or bends is a little... well... I dont quite understand the evolution of a mind whip or a mind spiked chain so...
Xantel 01-21-05, 10:19 PM	this is an awesome build, but, 2 things 1) i personally think the holy and unholy enhancements should be taken out, lawful good gods might not like the possibility of having a unholy power and vicer versa with chaotic evil gods. and i dont think that religious power should be applyed to a psionic class (personally), cuz, i mean, like everyhing else in D&D revolves around it and now there psionics that has NOTHING to do with dieties, and i think thats a nice change (for once). but if yu plan to keep it, then id say make it so only good char's can use holy and only evil char's can use unholy. 2)i think that the shape mind blade should just stay blades (no axes, flails, shurikins, etc.) because that kinda defeats the porpose of a mind blade if its a chain or somehting otherwise, i think this is really good and you should try to send it into the head-cheeses at wizards of the coast/D&D and see if theyll accept it so that soulknifes can be better than just a stronger rouge type-thing ^_^ keep up the good work
BlaineTog 01-21-05, 11:16 PM	this is an awesome buildThank you! 1) i personally think the holy and unholy enhancements should be taken out, lawful good gods might not like the possibility of having a unholy power and vicer versa with chaotic evil gods. and i dont think that religious power should be applyed to a psionic class (personally), cuz, i mean, like everyhing else in D&D revolves around it and now there psionics that has NOTHING to do with dieties, and i think thats a nice change (for once). but if yu plan to keep it, then id say make it so only good char's can use holy and only evil char's can use unholy. Good and Evil have nothing to do with deities in D&D. They are real, tangible forces of their own that many deities align themselves to, but there is no god overseeing one or the other. Nothing religious about it (or, at least, no more so than gravity). Good soulknives with unholy weapons take all the penalties that they would take for holding an unholy weapon. That's incentment enough not to use the opposite enhancement. 2)i think that the shape mind blade should just stay blades (no axes, flails, shurikins, etc.) because that kinda defeats the porpose of a mind blade if its a chain or somehtingIt messes with some of the names, but not the point. The point is to have a mentally projected weapon; whether it must be a sword or not is up to the individual player.
Todd 01-21-05, 11:26 PM	Heck, even with the offical version of the class, most Soulknife characters were running around with and even throwing a bastard sword Mind Blade. That's one mighty big knife.... :rolleyes: :P On the other hand I'm not too keen on the Holy and Unholy options being there either. However I am all for a Cleanse Mind Blade or Purify Mind Blade feat that works like the SLA and spell version from the BOED. The inverses would of course be needed as well.
Katal3 01-21-05, 11:37 PM	BTW, Blaine, Seriously, the "Fixed" Soulknife is awesome, I don't think I've gone more then one post regarding Psionics at a time where I have not sugested use it rather then the XPH version. much much better without being overpowered
Xantel 01-22-05, 12:07 AM	Blaine, ya make a good point. the point of the soulknife IS that the blade is like a tangible extention of the soulknife's personality. but me personally, wil always stay true to the sword ^_^ on the other hand, im still a little agenst the holy and unholy (dispite the penalties that a good char. would suffer from using an unholy wepaon and vice versa), it still just doesnt seem to...ya know...fit? and todd, can you really throw the mind bastard swords?? i didnt know you could throw any of the weapons past the basic mindblade. do they still have the range incrament of 30ft?
Tempest Stormwind 01-22-05, 01:24 AM	The only reason I'm not fond of the holy/unholy enhancements is simply that there are no existing alignment links in the whole of the XPH. No Detect Evil, no Blasphemy, nothing of that sort. There's a total of TWO powers with alignment descriptors (Psionic Revivify and Mind Seed), and only one other I'm aware of that even mentions alignment (Aura Sight). Psionics and alignment have virtually nothing to do with each other, and that's why I would leave them out, despite agreeing with Blaine's points. You can throw any version of the mindblade; it's just in a new form. Remember that bastard swords, without the Exotic Weapon feat, are two-handed, and two-handed throwing weapons always take a full-round action to throw. Other than that, it's identical to the normal thrown mind blade in every regard, including range increment (though, after all this time, I'm STILL unclear if thrown 2-handers get the 1.5 strength bonus damage...).
Nephlite 01-22-05, 10:34 AM	this is an awesome build, but, 2 things 1) i personally think the holy and unholy enhancements should be taken out, lawful good gods might not like the possibility of having a unholy power and vicer versa with chaotic evil gods. and i dont think that religious power should be applyed to a psionic class (personally), cuz, i mean, like everyhing else in D&D revolves around it and now there psionics that has NOTHING to do with dieties, and i think thats a nice change (for once). but if yu plan to keep it, then id say make it so only good char's can use holy and only evil char's can use unholy. 2)i think that the shape mind blade should just stay blades (no axes, flails, shurikins, etc.) because that kinda defeats the porpose of a mind blade if its a chain or somehting otherwise, i think this is really good and you should try to send it into the head-cheeses at wizards of the coast/D&D and see if theyll accept it so that soulknifes can be better than just a stronger rouge type-thing ^_^ keep up the good work Zuoken is a demigod os psionics. Fist of Zouken is following after him. So divine-like ish And a holy weapon weiled by a evil character still functions as nortmaly but you recieve temporary to 1 or 2(unsure) negative levels that don't go away as long as you weild that Holy weapon. Vice versa too. If good hold unholy.
Xantel 01-22-05, 10:38 AM	^_^ *agrees* here here! great points, 'sactly what i wasss thinkin but couldnt get it out right. Blaine, i think you should take that into account (still, i think ill be using your build, just not with the holy and unholy powers) *im talkin about tempest's post* ahh, thats awesome, the whole time i thought you could only throw the most basic for of the mindblade...
Todd 01-22-05, 11:20 AM	ahh, thats awesome, the whole time i thought you could only throw the most basic for of the mindblade... ;) :cool:
Kingrames 01-22-05, 11:00 PM	Just a suggestion for those who don't have much time to read and compare: could you compile a list of everything you changed so that we can compare/contrast? I've bookmarked it and plan to read later, but this would be wonderful.
Todd 01-22-05, 11:29 PM	Good and Evil have nothing to do with deities in D&D. They are real, tangible forces of their own that many deities align themselves to, but there is no god overseeing one or the other. Nothing religious about it (or, at least, no more so than gravity). Good soulknives with unholy weapons take all the penalties that they would take for holding an unholy weapon. That's incentment enough not to use the opposite enhancement. I've thought about this a bit more. I think that another reason that I'm opposed to the Holy/Unholy thing is that Soulknives are described as falling strongly on the Lawful/Chaotic axis. Some are good & some are evil ... but the main thing is that they are either strongly lawful or strongly chaotic. The whole Holy/Unholy thing goes against this IMO. An unrelated thought: In the Soulknife Underpowered thread is the running complaint about BAB and number of attacks. The BAB doesn't bother me so much but the number of attacks argument is. Monks get medium BAB but have flurry and increased damage to compensate. I'm starting to think that the Soulknife should have something too. The idea I had was to add Speed +3 to your list of enhancements. That would grant the extra attack that some folks crave and at +3 it doesn't leave room for much else in the way of enhancements even at high levels. Edit: Clouting +3 from Complete Arcane would also be worth a strong look at adding to your list IMO.
Katal3 01-23-05, 12:37 AM	sounds like a good idea to me, and on the holy unholy thing, I don't see any problems iwth it, but you are sortof right, it dosn't perfectly match thier Concept, though Axiomatic/Archiac does( which they automatically have)
The Commoner 02-24-05, 07:57 PM	Last Strike (Su): At 20th level, the soulknife's mindblade can retain the energy needed for a psychic strike longer. When the soulknife makes a successful psychic strike with his mindblade, the next attack he makes will also do psychic strike damage, as long as it is made within 1 round of the first strike (before the beginning of his next turn). Once this second psychic strike is made, the mindblade's extra energy is used up and it will not do extra psychic strike damage unless imbued again. This supernatural ability is compatible with ability damage from Knife to the Soul. Would this fit better for the energy retention idea: Residual Strike (Su): At 20th level, the soulknife's mindblade can retain the energy needed for a psychic strike longer. When the soulknife makes a successful psychic strike with his mindblade, the next successful attack he makes will also do psychic strike damage at -2d8 than the original psychic strike damage, and then can strke with another successful attack will also do psychic strike damage at -4d8 than the original psychic strike damage. This energy lasts as long as it is made within 1 round of the first strike (before the beginning of his next turn). Once this second psychic strike is made, the mindblade's extra energy is used up and it will not do extra psychic strike damage unless imbued again. This supernatural ability is compatible with ability damage from Knife to the Soul. So a full attack from a Soulknife with a BAB (+15/+10/+5) would preform Psychic Strikes of +5d8/+3d8/+1d8. This isn't as powerful as Last Strike but I think it is more colorful. Another con to it is the extra game mechanics involved.
Rhonin the Big 02-24-05, 10:20 PM	here's an idea to limit the type of weapons it can shape into: They can only be weapons of the same type as your most basic mind blade. So if at 1st level it was slashing it can only be shaped into slashing weapons. And if he chooses a heavy slashing weapon its shaped with 1 enhansement level less, so a +2 mind blade shaped into a greatsword would be +1 to make up for the 1.5 times strength mod. Might be too weak though, but it makes more sense. And for weapons like axes that rely on the mass of the weapon it just increases the total hardness by 10. A few things I would change though, but everything else is perfect. First off, why would a psionic class need an arcane elemental enchantment for his mind blade? Magic is a crutch for the mind! The lowered Hit Dice and lack of full BaB is a personal complaint because of my playing style. They say Soulknives are at equal footing at least with any other fight class, that's not true. For the only true fight class in XPH they should have d10 hit dice and full base attack, despite how sneaky they are. And if they did have full BaB, they could get multiple throw earlier, and other special abilities that rely on BaB would benefit more earlier.
Tempest Stormwind 02-24-05, 10:31 PM	The soulknife doesn't do what you think it does. It behaves best as a harrier, secondary fighter, and psionic stinger -- a psionic assassin, if you will. BlaineTog's version adds scout and covert ops to the mix, placing the soulknife on similar footing to the ranger, monk, or rogue. He doesn't need d10s or a full base attack in this role. For the character you described in the other thread, a psychic warrior with Call Weaponry would be better. Just describe the weapon all nifty-like: Head to the Wizards website and look up Blades of the Quori, an Eberron Dragonshards article. You'll see a few playtips there, and descriptions. (In the battle, a soulknife/psychic warrior calls a flail at one point and disarms the other one -- but visually, it doesn't look any different.)
SilentOne 03-10-05, 07:25 PM	What happens when a full soulknife takes the Mindblade Kensai feat and then reaches 20th level? Is there a table/chart that would give the epic level information needed to translate his +9 level (3 feats, possible under the 1/2 rule) into the correct? This also leads to the 6th level SK with level 9 mindblade, then 12th with +18... all more powerful than they should be. Don't get me wrong, I love the soulknife, but the feat is better than a simple weapon focus by a long shot. Maybe just a simple edit to it saying that you can only take the feat if you have 3 or more levels in a class other than soulknife? (This number would of course increase by 3 every time you took the feat)
BlaineTog 03-10-05, 07:59 PM	What happens when a full soulknife takes the Mindblade Kensai feat and then reaches 20th level? Is there a table/chart that would give the epic level information needed to translate his +9 level (3 feats, possible under the 1/2 rule) into the correct?I'm not touching Epic. I don't play it and I don't know anything about it. This also leads to the 6th level SK with level 9 mindblade, then 12th with +18... all more powerful than they should be.No, because they spent feats. Don't get me wrong, I love the soulknife, but the feat is better than a simple weapon focus by a long shot.It's only better in certain specific situations. And WF sucks anyway.
RadicalTaoist 03-10-05, 10:20 PM	Isn't there an Aligned Strike psionic feat in the XPH? Why waste precious mindblade enhancements on Holy?
SilentOne 03-10-05, 10:57 PM	Blainetog, Can you show me a feat that gives a fighter's favored weapon a +1 bonus to attack and damage or a special ability that stacks with all other bonuses and allows him to get an epic weapon pre-epic?
Nephlite 03-10-05, 11:21 PM	Blainetog, Can you show me a feat that gives a fighter's favored weapon a +1 bonus to attack and damage or a special ability that stacks with all other bonuses and allows him to get an epic weapon pre-epic? +4 weapon with Bane=+6(thus epic) Special ability: from Defenders of the Faith: Puissant fist + N0 Shadow blows with wisdom of 16= at level 8 when Prc gets NSB, fist are +3 weapon from PF + stacks with NSB so+3 from wisdom bonus That means +6 unarmed strike (+3 to hit and +3 to damage), but for overcoming DR it is considered epic.
BlaineTog 03-11-05, 12:04 AM	Blainetog, Can you show me a feat that gives a fighter's favored weapon a +1 bonus to attack and damage or a special ability that stacks with all other bonuses and allows him to get an epic weapon pre-epic?He can't use it to get an epic weapon. This feat does one thing and one thing only: it allowed the Soulknife to consider muticlassing without completelly sucking. I think you might be missing: "Add three to your effective soulknife level when determining your mind blade's enhancement bonus, to a maximum of your character level." PS: +1 attack and damage would not be a broken fighter feat. And the special abilities are, as a rule, worse than that +1 to attack and damage.
SilentOne 03-11-05, 04:07 PM	Alright Blainetog, missed that part of the feat, thank you for pointing it out. But as for Nephlite... A +4 bane weapon is not an epic weapon. It's a +4 bane weapon. Only if either the weapon bonus or the special abilties add up to over 6 can it be considered epic. This one just sums both to 6... Likewise with your monk example. Giving +3 to attack and damage is not epic. It's +3. Again, Blainetog, sorry, just missed that. Excellent class, going to use it.
BlaineTog 03-11-05, 07:51 PM	Alright Blainetog, missed that part of the feat, thank you for pointing it out.No problemo. Thank you for admitting your mistake (so few people do these days). Excellent class, going to use it.A craftsman is always pleased to hear his or her work is appreciated. :D
skippy_the_witch 03-14-05, 04:01 AM	I also love this fix, as will my gnoll soulknife player, who is already on cloud nine after finally finding the perfect prestige class in the blade manifester. That said, I only have one minor tweek, that of the weapon special abilities that have you have added to the list to modify a mind blade. First, I agree with the whole unholy/holy/axiomatic/anarchic debate. A soulknife's mindblade is an extension of himself, thus he should only be able to "energize" it with the energies he can find within his own soul, i.e. matching his alignment in some form. The simplest fix for this is to require that the soul knife have the ALIGNED ATTACK feat, and that he only be able to add the appropriate weapon special ability that matches the Law/Chaos/Good/Evil descriptor he took for that feat. Thus, a soul knife with Alligned Attack (Good) could add Holy to his mindblade, while one with Aligned Attack (Chaos) could only add Anarchic to his. Second, because the mindblade is a weapon of PSIONIC energy, I think it is overkill (at least in flavor, but probably not balance) to allow it to be further modified with any of the energy weapon special abilities (flaming, frost, etc). I will not allow it in my game. Besides, it is really unnessary, as Collision and Vicious already allow added damage to be done by the mindblade, not to mention psychic strike. That said, I do think Merciful is a great addition, as it will allow a Soul Knife to knock people out without killing them, a very useful ability in some situations, especially if you need prisoners, not bodies. Distance is ok, as it does help with the Soul Knife Thrower, and doesn't effect either flavor or balance. And Brilliant Energy is an absolute brilliant suggestion (pun intended), and obvious once you think about it. The last of the new suggested abilities is Bane. I have no problem with it either in balance, but in flavor. Not so much that a soul knife could generate a mind blade designed to kill or "disrupt the nervous systems" of certain types of creatures, but that he could concievably do it without being familiar with said creature or at least creature type. Thus, in my homebrew, I am only going to allow a soul knife to add bane to his mind blade after either having damaged a creature of that type with his mindblade at some previous time (thus gaining a "taste" of that type or subtypes aura) or by making a melee touch attack with his mind blade that does no damage but also gives him the necessary "taste". This does mean slightly more book keeping for my players, but all they really need to do is print out the list of possible bane creatures from the SRD and put a check mark by them as they come accross the various types. Since I DO use the action point system from Eberron (even though my homebrew is NOT eberron), I will also allow the spending of an action point to be able to change the weapon enhancement on the fly, but as a full round action that requires the expenditure of psionic focus along with the action point AND exposes the soul knife to attacks of opportunity. Lastly, I think Ghost Touch (+1) and Coup de Grace (+5) special abilities should be added to the list, as both have the flavor that fits a blade of psionic energy. Thanks again for this wonderful change and ideas, skippy GM of The Cursed Earth Campaign
BlaineTog 03-14-05, 08:17 PM	Glad you like it! Most of your changes are good tweaks -- for your campaign. If an ability A) makes some amount of sense and B) isn't broken, it should be in the class. DMs can always take it out later, should they so choose (as you have done). I will be adding Ghost Touch and Coup de Gras. Can't believe I missed Ghost Touch, though... Post #4,998.
Todd 03-15-05, 11:11 AM	Well there is the Ghost Attack psionic feat that pretty much replicates the Ghost Touch weapon enhancement. Honestly I would rather go with the feat than add then enhancement.
heretic44 03-22-05, 02:18 AM	I don't understand what was wrong with the class that needed fixing. I've played several Soul Knifes as written and found them to perform just as well if not better than the fighters in the group but make up for it with a lower AC. Just curious about what event spawned the need for a "fix."
Tealgorthian 03-25-05, 12:35 PM	I have question for you Soulknife experts. I still use the old Apprentice Level (0) rules for characters that want to start duel classed. What is a fair way to do it with Blaine's Uber Soulknife? I was thinking to just give Wild Talent, and Mind Blade manifestation, with Weapon Focus (Mindblade) coming when first level was hit. Thoughts? And if it wasnt apperent before hand, I really love this Soulknife. I was a bit leery before, but reading it more carefully, yes, tis teh rox, as they say.
Tuneless Bard 03-25-05, 12:46 PM	in my personal opinion...upping the power level of a soul knife doesnt fix it... the problem is that its just plain not broad enough to be a class...it should have stayed a prestige class...your fix makes it nothing more than a 20 level kensai... the class needs some major versitility in order to make it a playable core class...
BlaineTog 03-25-05, 03:40 PM	the problem is that its just plain not broad enough to be a class...it should have stayed a prestige class...your fix makes it nothing more than a 20 level kensai...Ok then. Don't use it. Problem solved.
greatfrito 04-10-05, 12:41 AM	I was just linked over here, and I'd just like to ask if this has been playtested at all - and how it worked out. I'm in the boat too that the feats may be a tad bit excessive, as they almost rival the psychic warrior in quantity.
Tempest Stormwind 04-10-05, 01:35 AM	I was just linked over here, and I'd just like to ask if this has been playtested at all - and how it worked out. I'm in the boat too that the feats may be a tad bit excessive, as they almost rival the psychic warrior in quantity. Note that psychic warriors also have a larger list (all the fighter feats) and they get manifesting prowess to make up for it. I have only had a chance to play one in a one-shot adventure, and found it to be comparable to the other characters of our level (9th), but I do know that if I had been a straight soulknife as written, I'd have been eaten alive while everyone else wouldn't have been. I know others have been playing with this variant for a while, and no complaints as yet.
Talen Lee 04-10-05, 02:28 AM	Just one thing? I'd suggest making the Mind Blade's hardness and hp based on the soulknife's level. Level for hardness and hit points seems like a good rule of thumb for me (if at low levels, your opponent is spending every turn sundering your weapon, they're not hitting you).
BlaineTog 04-10-05, 02:33 AM	I was just linked over here, and I'd just like to ask if this has been playtested at all - and how it worked out.Although I have heard reports of many people using it, and from them nothing negative, I have not personally had the chance to test this out ... at least, not in a normal campaign. I have a Soulknife 15 // Rogue 6 / Psychic Acrobat 9 (my own PrC) 52-point-buy Gestalt in a campaign that barely pays lip service to the rules and it hasn't been a problem there, but that's hardly DMG recomended settings. I'm in the boat too that the feats may be a tad bit excessive, as they almost rival the psychic warrior in quantity.The key things here are that A) Psychic Warriors have decent manifesting ability, and B) Psychic Warrios get to choose from the fighter list as well (whereas this guy just gets to take Psionic feats which are generally just nice little extras that he couldn't afford before, whereas picking from the fighter's list gives you the backbone of your combat style).
Rokku 04-10-05, 02:13 PM	Okay the board ate this post on my first try, so I'm going to try and redo it, but briefer. Wish me luck! Kudos on taking a class that had a lot of style and no substance and making it something that is actually playable. But I still have some issues with it as it stands, mainly focused around the class being a stylized but weakened version of the Rogue. I'll do it point by point. 1) Limiting the bonus feats to Psionic feats only provides a shockingly small list of feats that both do something at all and do something *good* (I mean, psionic weapon? C'mon, who wants to spend a feat on doing 2d6 damge effectively once per encounter?) Adding certain non-psionic feats to the list that stick with the basic theme you're pushing for (ex. Stealthy and Decietful for non-combat, Combat Expertise and Improved Disarm for combat) would open up more options to the class, allowing them to focus on being sneaky or fighting better, rather than just being more psionic. (Speaking of psionic though, can Souknives take the Psicrystal feats? Do you have to have powers to have manifester levels, or just be a psionic class? The EXPH is not really clear on that.) 2) Psychic Strike is weak. Lets just all admit it. Compared to the combat enhancers other classes get (Sneak Attack, Rage, even Smite Evil), I just don't think it ends up comparing. Heck, as I level, if my options are to charge my mindblade or full-attack, I'll probably full attack, if I actually want to do solid damage. There's not a lot we can change about the way Psychic Strike is written, but it could still be snazzed up a bit. My recommendations would be to remove the Fill the Blade feat, and simply make it a class feature. Lower it to level ten or so, and replace "You may expend your psionic focus to..." with "If you are psionically focused you may...". Replace the level 20 ability with an upgrade to Fill the Blade, changing the Swift action to a Free action. Alternately, one go a similar but alternate direction -- at level 10, let the soulknife expend their psionic focus to make a Psychic Strike charge last for a full round. At level 20, let the charge last for a full minute. Level 20 abilities in base classes should blow you away IMO, so that you're actually tempted to stay in the class rather than go to a PrC. Another issue (and a question included): is it necessary for the Psychic Strike to only work on "nonmindless, living creatures" rather than just "nonmindless" creatures? I'm pretty sure that change would only add sentient undead to the list of strikeable targets -- and hell, they've got minds and something resembling a soul, they should be fair game. For that matter, is there a hard definition of "mindless"? I've plowed through books looking for one and I haven't found one yet, and it's just been irking me. Anyway, seriously, good work on the class. Even without the changes I've mentioned here (though I will run 'em by my GM) I plan on making my next character a Soulknife. Bravo!
BlaineTog 04-10-05, 02:31 PM	1) Limiting the bonus feats to Psionic feats only provides a shockingly small list of feats that both do something at all and do something *good* (I mean, psionic weapon? C'mon, who wants to spend a feat on doing 2d6 damge effectively once per encounter?)Well, Psionic Weapon was not what I had in mind when I added the feat (feats such as Psychic Meditation, Psionic Body, Mental Leap, Speed of Thought, and Up the Walls were). Adding certain non-psionic feats to the list that stick with the basic theme you're pushing for (ex. Stealthy and Decietful for non-combat, Combat Expertise and Improved Disarm for combat) would open up more options to the class, allowing them to focus on being sneaky or fighting better, rather than just being more psionic.I'm not sure about this. IMO, this guy is pretty well balanced as-is. He doesn't really need the power-up. (Speaking of psionic though, can Souknives take the Psicrystal feats? Do you have to have powers to have manifester levels, or just be a psionic class? The EXPH is not really clear on that.)You have to have a manifester level. 2) Psychic Strike is weak. Lets just all admit it. Compared to the combat enhancers other classes get (Sneak Attack, Rage, even Smite Evil), I just don't think it ends up comparing.Nor is it supposed to. Another issue (and a question included): is it necessary for the Psychic Strike to only work on "nonmindless, living creatures" rather than just "nonmindless" creatures? I'm pretty sure that change would only add sentient undead to the list of strikeable targets -- and hell, they've got minds and something resembling a soul, they should be fair game.Might be a good idea. Any comments? For that matter, is there a hard definition of "mindless"? I've plowed through books looking for one and I haven't found one yet, and it's just been irking me.I don't think so, but I assume "mindless" means "does not have an intelligence score." Anyway, seriously, good work on the class. Even without the changes I've mentioned here (though I will run 'em by my GM) I plan on making my next character a Soulknife. Bravo!Thank you.
Tempest Stormwind 04-10-05, 03:35 PM	I support the removal of "living" in the psychic strike description. If it can think, it's got something resembling a brain, and that can be blasted. And Mindless means "Nonability Intelligence" or "Not Having an Intelligence Score". For instance, vermin, nearly all constructs (Warforged and the MM2 Nimblewright are notable exceptions), or most undead, with "Int --" in their ability block.
greatfrito 04-10-05, 09:00 PM	Well, that all sounds pretty good - my DM and I are just pushing through the last little bit of this. Psionic feats only sounds like a pretty good plan, though I'm personally adding a handful or so of SK oriented Psionic Feats, so it should work out well. I think I -may- add in some less-than-stupendous normal feats too, like the skill feats, and maybe Dodge. Thanks BlaineTog.
Rokku 04-23-05, 04:31 PM	Something else that hit me today as I was flipping through my newly acquired copy of Races of Eberron, and realized how ridiculously useful a Dorje of Hustle would be to a Soulknife/Atavist: Why shouldn't the Soulknife have Use Psionic Device as a class skill? As the most rogue-ish of the psionic classes, it would certainly seem to fit, and it's kind of disappointing that the Soulknife is the only psionic class that can't use psionic stuff.
Sir Elton 04-23-05, 04:39 PM	Roguish? Well, yeah. I think. Someone thought that they should be assassins. But with the Kalashtar soulknives being the divine warriors of the Kalashtar, it kind of changes the way one thinks of soulknives. :D http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/roe_gallery/88215.jpg
Lycanthromancer 05-02-05, 06:19 PM	Love this thread. Heh. *Bump* [edit] By the way, BlaineTog, why don't you work up a fix for the Wilder, if you haven't already? They have crap for powers, and their Psychic Enervation is completely broken. I have some ideas, but I'd like to see what you have to say about it.
BlaineTog 05-02-05, 07:13 PM	[edit] By the way, BlaineTog, why don't you work up a fix for the Wilder, if you haven't already? They have crap for powers, and their Psychic Enervation is completely broken.*Hint Hint Nudge Nudge* :D
Bane's hand 05-03-05, 06:42 PM	No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the webmaster ??? Btw,could you please tell me how you make these nice tables?
BlaineTog 05-03-05, 06:53 PM	0_o Weird. Try here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5791559#post5791559).
Bane's hand 05-03-05, 07:02 PM	That works :D
Asadeseth 05-10-05, 11:11 PM	Thanks BlaineTog, nice adjustments to the class, a few things i would like to coment on though pluss an idea or 2. One: On the whole holly/unholly thing, sence the blade is esentualy a part of your own soul i wouldnt reconmend the SK being able to manafest blades NOT of there alingment at all. Like others have stated, i see no real balance issues with it, but i just have problems with it flavor wise. Two: PERSONALY i like the bonas feets, they neaded them, and after some conisderation, keeping them in the PSI type sub set of feets is a good idea but i think a few other basic non Psionic ones would also fit the class prity well. Three: As for exotic weapon form, I see no real problem with it, if they want a mace or an ax, sure why not, me personaly i would want claws (not exactly a weapon ive see in the books per se. but i could see them for this 1D6/1D6, 19-20, X3) granted that would meen i would have to split the blade. Four: On the metalurgic idea, make it a feet. I know it sounds a little odd at first but as i think about it i can rationalise it out metaphysicly (metaphysical mumbojumbo warning) as modifying its auric sturcture to hold the auric structure of the desired metal with in its subharmonics (i warned you) Feet: Metalugic mimicry [Psionic] Your mind blade is now considered a specific type of metal for the perpose of damage reduction and or the ablitility to effeft a target. Prerequisite: Able to manafest a +1 mind blade Benifit: chose a metal (adamantine, silver, coldwroght iron, ect) from now on when you manafest your mind blade it is considered to be of that metal type for perposes where that metal might effect something differently, such as damage reduction or vunerablilitys. Special: You may take this feet more than once, however you may not have more than one type of metal be aplyed to your mind blade at a time, you may swich the type when ever you change the effects of your mind blade. Five: Next feet idea. This class realy dose just beg for specialised feets for it realy. Feet: Psychokinetic Strike [PSIONIC] Your Psychic Strike is changed to the Psychokinetic sub type Prerequisite: Psychic Strike +4D8 Benifit: Your Psychic stike is now considered to be Psychokinetic in nature thuse able to effect anything that is caple of being harmed buy a Psychokinetic attack Special: This feet dose not stack with the Psychokinetic effect or the Psychokinetic burst weapon abilitys. Six: Okay one more Feet idea, this time one for a multi classing SK Feet: Empower Strike [PSIONIC] Prerequisiste: Psychic Strike +2D8 the ablitity to manafest a 2nd level Power Benifit: As a standard action you may expend your focas and embue your mind blade with a power, you must pay the powers PP cost +2 as well. The power is activated the next time you make an attack with your mind blade wether the attack was successfull or not. If the power had a saveing thow, then there is a -2 penalty applyed to the save. If the target has Power Resistance then you get a +4 to your role to over come it. Special: You may not have the effects of Empower Stike and Psychic Strike on the same mind blade at the same time. Well thats it, just wanted to add my 3 cents. On a side not, i plan to be useing this version of the SK to my upcomeing campain, i like it alot beter than the old version.
Kalriem 05-11-05, 12:13 AM	Erm... Why does the Soulknife need to be fixed? I run a Gestalt game, and I have a Samuri/Fighter, Monk/Fighter, Wiz/Sorc, and a Soulknife/Rogue. Frankly the Soulknife is overshadowing everyone else, so I was just wondering if I was missing something... :thinks:
BlaineTog 05-11-05, 12:38 AM	I run a Gestalt game, and I have a Samuri/Fighter, Monk/Fighter, Wiz/Sorc, and a Soulknife/Rogue. Frankly the Soulknife is overshadowing everyone else, so I was just wondering if I was missing something... :thinks::rofl: Thanks BlaineTog, nice adjustments to the class,:tiphat: One: On the whole holly/unholly thing, sence the blade is esentualy a part of your own soul i wouldnt reconmend the SK being able to manafest blades NOT of there alingment at all. Like others have stated, i see no real balance issues with it, but i just have problems with it flavor wise.I'd like to leave as much flavor to the group as is reasonable. Two: PERSONALY i like the bonas feets, they neaded them, and after some conisderation, keeping them in the PSI type sub set of feets is a good idea but i think a few other basic non Psionic ones would also fit the class prity well.Got anything in mind? Three: As for exotic weapon form, I see no real problem with it, if they want a mace or an ax, sure why not, me personaly i would want claws (not exactly a weapon ive see in the books per se. but i could see them for this 1D6/1D6, 19-20, X3) granted that would meen i would have to split the blade.Claws? Interesting. I'm intrigued. This would probably have to be its own feat.
BlaineTog 08-15-05, 08:02 PM	I added two new feats, "Poison Blade" and "Mindblade Finesse." I don't know how the mindblade would handle poison anyway, and it makes sense that a blade made from your psychic energies could use your Dex mod anyway even when particularly large.
Neb Rybel 08-19-05, 08:50 PM	What is the bonus feat list for your fix?
BlaineTog 08-19-05, 08:53 PM	Bonus Feat: At 2nd level and every 4 levels thereafter (6th, 10th, 14th, and so one), the soulknife gains a bonus Psionic Feat.
Tempest Stormwind 08-21-05, 12:35 AM	I added two new feats, "Poison Blade" and "Mindblade Finesse." I don't know how the mindblade would handle poison anyway, and it makes sense that a blade made from your psychic energies could use your Dex mod anyway even when particularly large. Your Mindblade Finesse reminds me of the 3.0 weapon finesse, which was clunky. I think that with those prerequisites, it should apply to any light or one-handed form you transform your blade into. Add Improved Mindblade Finesse (add +4 to all the prerequisites, and consider a "focused" requirement) to affect two-handed forms. You already need extra feats to gain access to all the superior two-handed forms anyway (Greatsword, scythe, polearms, etc) -- in order to do the truly odd and, say, finesse a Scythe, you'd need Exotic Weapon (Scythe), Weapon Finesse, Exotic Mindblade (Scythe), AND a lower Strength than Dexterity (which is odd if you go for two-handed weapons anyway). (This might be biased -- my variant on your Exotic Mindblade Shape is based on my use of weapon group rules from UA. ) As for Poison Blade, I think it looks good, although I think it's extra clunky with the shruiken. I'd probably use it just fine. Speaking of, I've had a question for you for a while. Say you're level 7, and you customize your mind blade with Mindcrusher (+2), making it a Mindcrusher mind blade (no enhancement bonus). You now shape your sword into two short swords. What happens? I've been houseruling it that it loses a single +1 ability, at the weilder's choice, if there's no enhancement bonus to lose... but I'm at a loss as to what to do if there's no bonuses of that size. I can probably come up with a houserule of my own, but I'm interested in your take.
BlaineTog 08-21-05, 02:35 AM	As for Poison Blade, I think it looks good, although I think it's extra clunky with the shruiken.Unfortunatelly, I didn't know how else to do it; after all, the best thing shuriken have going for them is that you can throw a lot of them, and they practically have "poison me!" written on them. As for the Mindblade Finnesse, I really don't know what to say. I'd like to hear more opinions about it. Speaking of, I've had a question for you for a while. Say you're level 7, and you customize your mind blade with Mindcrusher (+2), making it a Mindcrusher mind blade (no enhancement bonus). You now shape your sword into two short swords. What happens? I've been houseruling it that it loses a single +1 ability, at the weilder's choice, if there's no enhancement bonus to lose... but I'm at a loss as to what to do if there's no bonuses of that size. I can probably come up with a houserule of my own, but I'm interested in your take.Well, I'd probably rule that the enhancement bonus penalty rounds up, so he'd lose Mindcrusher. Possibly, he could take a -1 penalty to attacks and damage instead, but since he's doing something he's not supposed to be doing, I'd be inclined to make it -2 penalties, biasing towards overkill. I'd also smack the player for not planning better.
Tempest Stormwind 08-21-05, 10:57 AM	Unfortunatelly, I didn't know how else to do it; after all, the best thing shuriken have going for them is that you can throw a lot of them, and they practically have "poison me!" written on them. Granted... Hmm... I can't see another way either. As for the Mindblade Finnesse, I really don't know what to say. I'd like to hear more opinions about it. Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea. However, as written, it's a huge feat sink, similar to the two-weapon feats. Well, I'd probably rule that the enhancement bonus penalty rounds up, so he'd lose Mindcrusher. Possibly, he could take a -1 penalty to attacks and damage instead, but since he's doing something he's not supposed to be doing, I'd be inclined to make it -2 penalties, biasing towards overkill. I'd also smack the player for not planning better. 'not supposed to be doing' meaning splitting, or going abilities over enhancement bonus? (Remember, the mind blade is a magic weapon even without an enhancement bonus, and it's not a "weapon" so much as a class feature, so there's no reason for the "must be +1 before abilties" rule to apply. And your wording doesn't require it, either. I've seen no problems with running it this way for a while.) By the way, this hasn't come up in my games yet except as a hypothetical question. The soulknife I have usually ends up with mostly enhancement bonuses anyway, and arranges it so that when he splits, such problems don't come up. (He HAS done the "all abilities, no bonus" thing before, but the mind blade was already in twin shortsword form.)
BlaineTog 08-21-05, 02:22 PM	Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea. However, as written, it's a huge feat sink, similar to the two-weapon feats.I know, but since it takes the soulknife a feat to get a new form anyway, I assumed he wouldn't ever take this feat more than once. Thus, it would generally require fewer feats than a one-handed-then-two-handed feat chain would. 'not supposed to be doing' meaning splitting, or going abilities over enhancement bonus?Going over. He should have planned better. (Remember, the mind blade is a magic weapon even without an enhancement bonus, and it's not a "weapon" so much as a class feature, so there's no reason for the "must be +1 before abilties" rule to apply. And your wording doesn't require it, either. I've seen no problems with running it this way for a while.)That is indeed what I intended.
Lusden Veharo 09-16-05, 06:43 PM	BlaineTog, I've got a player interested in building a weapon-throwing Soulknife in a gestalt game, pairing it with Fighter, Ranger, and Master Thrower. Do you see any balance issues with switching out Bladewind and adding a weaker version of Multiple Throw in its place? Specifically, I'm thinking of restricting it to the basic shortsword, or if they have it, two daggers.
BlaineTog 09-16-05, 09:10 PM	BlaineTog, I've got a player interested in building a weapon-throwing Soulknife in a gestalt game, pairing it with Fighter, Ranger, and Master Thrower. Do you see any balance issues with switching out Bladewind and adding a weaker version of Multiple Throw in its place? Specifically, I'm thinking of restricting it to the basic shortsword, or if they have it, two daggers.Hmm... As a quick and dirty variant, I'd do this: They lose all shapes for the mindblade other than short sword, even for melee. Possibly give them dagger instead of short sword. They lose access to the following Mind Blade Special Enhancements: Defending, Mighty cleaving, Sundering, Collision, Coup de Grace. Switch "Throw Mind Blade" with "Weapon Focus: Mind Blade." Remove Bladewind, put in it's place Fast Toss: they can make more throws per round, but the number of extra throws beyond the first is limited to one per two points of Wisdom Bonus (which isn't to say that they gain attacks, merely that if they could otherwise make that many attacks in a round, it is limited to no more than that).That might be too strict. I don't know, I haven't really thought it over much. Given that it's gesalt, I might tone that down some.
feartheinvinceblehamster 11-11-05, 10:01 PM	I think you'll be happy to know I just printed this out.
Nivek Loneshadow 11-25-05, 12:48 PM	I possible player of mine wants to use this version so I've been looking it over. May I ask why the HP and Skills were changed from the original? The bonus feats seem a bit much to me (even with the above change) I think my biggest concern is that the weapon can turn into ANYTHING. Need a flaming weapon? no problem. Need a holy weapon? no problem. You can always change the weapon to meet any situation something the other players can't do. This on top of all your extra GP seems to really boost this classes power. What are the newest reveiws on playtesting?
Tempest Stormwind 11-25-05, 01:00 PM	I possible player of mine wants to use this version so I've been looking it over. May I ask why the HP and Skills were changed from the original?To become a more roguelike, assassin-like sneak class instead of the "tank with stealth but in armor" that the core one was. The bonus feats seem a bit much to me (even with the above change)The original soulknife lacked ANY options at all and was horribly feat-starved. Blaine's come in at slow enough frequency that it isn't an issue. I think my biggest concern is that the weapon can turn into ANYTHING. Need a flaming weapon? no problem. Need a holy weapon? no problem. You can always change the weapon to meet any situation something the other players can't do. This on top of all your extra GP seems to really boost this classes power.The core Soulknife is like this too. Note that to change weapons, it takes 8 hours of concentration, for both the fix and the base. Of all the races, only the warforged can do this overnight, due to the need for sleep (I DMed for a gestalt warforged soulknife/warlock and this was one of his big tricks). Everyone else is more or less set for the given adventure they're on, unless they have a scene where they spend it in transit (i.e. "You take the Lightning Rail from Breland into Thrane." "Okay, during this, I reconfigure my mind blade...") As for the bonus GP: Note that, even with the fix, they don't get any class features that are not directly relating to the weapon. Other characters spend GP on the weapon, soulknives spend GP on what the other classes get for free -- notably defense, plus any wonderous item that'd be useful for rogues or rangers. What are the newest reveiws on playtesting?Fine, just fine. This is the only version of the class I'd play (though Cvazi has a "turn the soulknife into a feat tree" fix that looks interesting for a psychic warrior...).
Monkeygod 12-21-05, 12:55 AM	ive been meanin to comment on this fix but never got around to it: this is incredible!!!... the new feats and the other tweaks make the soulknife finally more badass... you've done well Blaine... now go fix all the other broken classes....
BlaineTog 12-21-05, 01:16 AM	ive been meanin to comment on this fix but never got around to it: this is incredible!!!... the new feats and the other tweaks make the soulknife finally more badass... you've done well Blaine...Thank ye, thank ye. now go fix all the other broken classes....If only it was that simple.
Monkeygod 12-21-05, 10:58 PM	of course its that simple, you are the MIGHTY Blaine!!!... in all seriosuness tho, people talk alot about various classes being broken and if you were to first start a thread for fixing one im sure plenty of people who actually help as opposed to bashing and trolling as many love and repsect the work you did with the soulknife....
BlaineTog 02-19-06, 11:44 PM	Added two new feats, Quickflicker and Quickshaper (I'm not sure about Quickflicker; I think it might be prudent to fold it into Exotic Shape (Shuriken)). Also made the Soulknife choose whether or not to apply poison to a thrown mindblade before throwing it, since the alternative really doesn't make any sense.
BlaineTog 03-06-06, 03:04 AM	I simplified "Poisoned Blade" and folded "Quickflipper" into "Exotic Mindblade Shape (Shuriken)." This way seemed easier and more fair.
swordspell_mage 05-05-06, 09:25 PM	Really well done! I think a gestalt warlock/your awesome soulknife fix would word amazingly.
BlaineTog 05-06-06, 12:23 AM	Walock//Soulknife? Hmm.... actually, that might not be all that bad, if you went the Hideous Blow route. If nothing else, you'd have a crazymobile mofo, and no mistake. EDIT: That guy could also have one helluvan opener: standard attack + Psychic Strike + Eldritch Blast damage + Eldritch Blast Essense + poison, potentially. Nice, nice.
Tempest Stormwind 05-06-06, 12:40 AM	He came here after I mentioned that I'd DMed for a BlaineTog Soulknife//Warlock gestalt once. The character (a warforged; excellent race for this concept, especially since he spent the nights (when the party slept) modifying his mind blade mid-adventure) had an invocation emphasis on movement and stealth, and dubbed his combination class "Commando" and reflavored everything to fit into a cohesive whole. It was a blast, definitely. He made an excellent skill-monkey and what he called "counter" -- that is, for any character type, he was able to shut it down. Part of this was due to ingenious backpack gear selection, but most of it was due to tactics and proper use of the abilities. Normally this sort of character is called a "harrier" but the player in question thought that term implied "anti-mage" more than the versatile approach he used. He DID have Hideous Blow, though, along with -- of all things -- Deep Impact and Psionic Weapon (no poison, though; I remember he had an essence as well, though I forget precisely which one it was, seeing as I remember this guy more as a soulknife). Made for one holy hell of a first strike when combined with the warlock's stealthy, mobile invocations and your soulknife's stealth skills, though.
wolfie-kun 07-02-06, 01:53 AM	It works well...but seriously, most of the feats seem virtually useless. Not just virtually. Mind Blade Kensai and Quickshaper, and possibly Exotic Shape Mind Blade, are the only ones I'd use. Even then, Quickshaper is the only one that's likely. Flavor-wise, the Exotic Shape Mind Blade (which isn't really a good name for the feat at all, IMO) feat should be limited to the ability to make slashing or piercing weapons. After all, it's a mind blade, not mind mace, or mind warhammer. The quickened ability to imbue psychic strike damage by expending psionic focus seems redundant...at some point, you're taking a move action one way or the other, whether it's imbuing the energy or gaining psionic focus in the first place (and that's with an extra feat, otherwise it's a full-round action). Even if you gain your focus outside of combat, you can do that for psychic strike anyway, in addition. It's useful, but not really useful enough to be worth wasting a feat on. Sure, the move action is going to help, but you'll have to use another, or a full-round action, without Psionic Meditation, to gain it again...it seriously isn't enough to be worth a feat. You'd rarely, if ever, get a good opportunity to use it in an actual combat situation. The fix is good enough without the feats anyway.
BlaineTog 07-02-06, 02:21 PM	Flavor-wise, the Exotic Shape Mind Blade (which isn't really a good name for the feat at all, IMO) feat should be limited to the ability to make slashing or piercing weapons. After all, it's a mind blade, not mind mace, or mind warhammer.Yeah, I'm not going to let people's weapon choice options be limited when taking a feat just because the base class happens to be themed around blades. The feat explicitelly alters the class. The quickened ability to imbue psychic strike damage by expending psionic focus seems redundant...at some point, you're taking a move action one way or the other, whether it's imbuing the energy or gaining psionic focus in the first place (and that's with an extra feat, otherwise it's a full-round action). Even if you gain your focus outside of combat, you can do that for psychic strike anyway, in addition. It's useful, but not really useful enough to be worth wasting a feat on. Sure, the move action is going to help, but you'll have to use another, or a full-round action, without Psionic Meditation, to gain it again...it seriously isn't enough to be worth a feat. You'd rarely, if ever, get a good opportunity to use it in an actual combat situation.The idea therein is to make for an even better opener. An extra +5d8 damage (potentially +10d8, actually, if the soulknife has Subconscious Containment) in the first round is nothing to scoff at. In any case, what do you suggest? And what was your problem with Poisoned Blade?
wolfie-kun 07-03-06, 12:51 PM	Yeah, I'm not going to let people's weapon choice options be limited when taking a feat just because the base class happens to be themed around blades. The feat explicitelly alters the class. I'd simply change the name. The complaint merely comes from flavor, so re-writing it to get rid of my problem is something I can do myself for my game. I was just mentioning it's mildly inconsistent. The idea therein is to make for an even better opener. An extra +5d8 damage (potentially +10d8, actually, if the soulknife has Subconscious Containment) in the first round is nothing to scoff at. In any case, what do you suggest? And what was your problem with Poisoned Blade? Like I said, it seems that expending your psionic focus is redundant. The problem is, other than just making it 1/day, I can't think of a very good way to do it, as simply making it so you can always do it as a swift action is definitely Epic. Perhaps usable one time during any period in which you have your focus, but not necessarily expending it? That's a bit clunky though... No problems with Poisoned Blade, other than this: As a move action, the character may, as a standard action Actually, reading through it again, it's pretty good. That's one I'd definitely use. Mindblade Finesse is also very useful, now that I think about it. Overall, really good work...just that a couple of the feats aren't so terribly great. Btw, how does Subconcious Containment work?
BlaineTog 07-03-06, 01:02 PM	I'd simply change the name. The complaint merely comes from flavor, so re-writing it to get rid of my problem is something I can do myself for my game. I was just mentioning it's mildly inconsistent.Well, I'm certainly not going to rename the class just because there's a feat that ever-so-slightly changes the flavor, and I'm also not going to make the feat rename the class. Like I said, it seems that expending your psionic focus is redundant.To a certain degree. This feat isn't for everyone. It's for those who want a really killer opening move. Whether that makes it underpowered or not is another issue; perhaps the prereqs should be lowered? No problems with Poisoned Blade, other than this:Ah, thanks, consider it fixed. Actually, reading through it again, it's pretty good. That's one I'd definitely use.This draws a pause. Do you mean to say it's almost too good? Overall, really good work...just that a couple of the feats aren't so terribly great. Btw, how does Subconcious Containment work?It's detailed in the link at the bottom of the feats.
wolfie-kun 07-03-06, 01:37 PM	Well, I'm certainly not going to rename the class just because there's a feat that ever-so-slightly changes the flavor, and I'm also not going to make the feat rename the class. Not the class, the feat... To a certain degree. This feat isn't for everyone. It's for those who want a really killer opening move. Whether that makes it underpowered or not is another issue; perhaps the prereqs should be lowered? The prereqs don't really have enough oomph to make a difference in what power a feat should generally have. Plus, without Subconcious Containment, you can still make that opening move. Remember, the psionic strike stays charged the same way that you stay psionically focused. Ah, thanks, consider it fixed. No prob. :) This draws a pause. Do you mean to say it's almost too good? Not unless the ability to apply poison without poisoning yourself is... Seeing as that's a somewhat common PrC and racial ability, I'd say not. It's detailed in the link at the bottom of the feats. ah...alright then, I suppose I should have a look.
GreyEagle 10-22-06, 10:01 PM	Good job here! I really like what you've done! I was gonna try and do the same thing, but now I dont have to!
WinterPsionic 11-17-06, 06:36 PM	Tempest will probably jump down my throat for posting here but I've been thinking this over for a while now... Why not have a feat that TEMPORARILY allows you to alter your MB Enhancements with less then 8 hours? I realize this creates the potential problem of "Any style, any time" but in some situations it's nice to have a short duration change for an out of place enemy....(Ex. Zombie's in a Golem Factory...) Here's what I've tried to balance out myself. Altered State Pre-Reqs: MindBlade Enchantment Bonus +1 Beneift:You can alter the current enhancement of your Mind Blade for a number of rounds equal to 3+ your Con Modifier after only 2 hours of Meditation, after which time your mind can no longer support the change in the energy flow and self regulates the blade(s). Normal: You must rest 8 hours for a "permenant" change to take effect. Just an idea...probably needs considerable tweaking... Also while I recognize and appreciate the efforst made here, I still don't feel the class as written in XPH is broken, though I did prefer the general feel of the PsiHB's PrC version(namely the minor access to powers). Cheers for your success and great job on the alteration(I'm content calling it a variant, no dis-respect intended I just don't feel the class is "broken", slightly under powered...maybe...but no so much as it needs a fix)
BlaineTog 11-20-06, 06:05 PM	Yeah, I don't know why a feat that lets you change your mindblade enhancements on the fly couldb't be written. The problem is coming up with a way to balance it that doesn't make the feat useless or otherwise bad to use. That one, for example, is weird because it means you have to time your change exactly two hours before you'll need it.
WinterPsionic 11-20-06, 06:23 PM	Yeah, I don't know why a feat that lets you change your mindblade enhancements on the fly couldb't be written. The problem is coming up with a way to balance it that doesn't make the feat useless or otherwise bad to use. That one, for example, is weird because it means you have to time your change exactly two hours before you'll need it. :confused: Perhaps I worded it poorly but it wouldn't need to be exactly 2hrs prior to use...though in theory there would be a normal duration associated with it... The idea is that after only 2 hours meditation the blade can maintain the "alien" charge for X number of uses, at which point the strain forces your mind to "re-balance" the blade. I suppose to make it more realistic it should contain the following: Altered State After a number of rounds equal to 3+ your Con Modifier add "or 4 hours, whichever comes first". This way if your party is sudddenly found fighting some Undead or flat Evil Outsiders you should be able to squeak in 2 hrs of Med time to get the temporary change for Ghosttouch or Holy for at least a few strkes. I'm a relatively poor judge of Feat balance as I'm a creature of habit and rarely stray far from a small group of classes and feats but the concept doesn't seem broken or inbalanced, perhaps the current values I'm using are broken but those should be easily adjusted...or maybe there should just be a feat to reduce the total amount of time needed to "rebuild" your Mindblade...like Psionic Weaponsmith, or Mind Forger...(at least I'm ok with the names...)
Lycanthromancer 11-20-06, 06:46 PM	What about expending your psionic focus as a free-action to immediately alter the enchantments on your mindblade for a number of rounds equal to your soulknife level + 1? Yes, it would require that you spend a round refocusing (which would count against the time for your change), but it would be rather useful, don't you think? Prerequisites: +2 Mindblade, Wis 13.
WinterPsionic 11-20-06, 10:11 PM	What about expending your psionic focus as a free-action to immediately alter the enchantments on your mindblade for a number of rounds equal to your soulknife level + 1? Yes, it would require that you spend a round refocusing (which would count against the time for your change), but it would be rather useful, don't you think? Prerequisites: +2 Mindblade, Wis 13. I actually thought about this approach though I was playing with the idea of SK Lvl/2 then SK Lvl/4, the baseline SK Lvl was a little overpowered in my mind, as was the "/2", but the "/4" was to weak at lower levels. But let's see if anyone else has an opinion on it. EDIT:Just saw this (http://toosigma.com/rpg/workshop/feats/mindblade_feats.php#bladestorm) link in Tempest's Sig, the Reforge Mindblade is what I'm after, I just think his time to meditate is reduced to dramatically.
BlaineTog 11-21-06, 10:16 AM	Allright, here's a quick something that might do the trick: QUICKALTER MINDBLADE [PSIONIC] You can quickly change your mindblade's enhancements, but doing so is very costly. Prerequisites: Mindblade class feature [maybe others as well, don't know] Benefit: You must commit your psionic focus to this feat in order to make use of it. (Committing focus is described below). When you use this feat, you may change your mindblade enhancements instantly to any legal combination. This change lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + your Constitution modifier, at which point your mindblade reverts to its previous form. You must still uncommit your focus as normal. Special: Committing your focus to an ability or feat costs a standard action. Afterwards, you are treated as being without psionic focus for the purposes of feats which either require the holding or expenditure of the focus (for example, Speed of Thought would not increase your speed, and you would be unable to activate Mental Leap) until you have uncommitted your focus, which requires a standard action as well and expends the focus uselessly in the process. If you can hold a second focus (such as through the use of Psicrystal Containment), that focus functions normally.
WinterPsionic 11-21-06, 11:27 AM	Allright, here's a quick something that might do the trick: QUICKALTER MINDBLADE [PSIONIC] You can quickly change your mindblade's enhancements, but doing so is very costly. Prerequisites: Mindblade class feature [maybe others as well, don't know] Benefit: You must commit your psionic focus to this feat in order to make use of it. (Committing focus is described below). When you use this feat, you may change your mindblade enhancements instantly to any legal combination. This change lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + your Constitution modifier, at which point your mindblade reverts to its previous form. You must still uncommit your focus as normal. Special: Committing your focus to an ability or feat costs a standard action. Afterwards, you are treated as being without psionic focus for the purposes of feats which either require the holding or expenditure of the focus (for example, Speed of Thought would not increase your speed, and you would be unable to activate Mental Leap) until you have uncommitted your focus, which requires a standard action as well and expends the focus uselessly in the process. If you can hold a second focus (such as through the use of Psicrystal Containment), that focus functions normally. Hmmmm that sounds alright...I do like maintaining my focus so I may have to take a level dip in Psion and use the feat to start working on my Psicrystal...but that's alright :D
BlaineTog 11-21-06, 02:42 PM	Hmmmm that sounds alright...I do like maintaining my focus so I may have to take a level dip in Psion and use the feat to start working on my Psicrystal...but that's alright :DOr take Subconscious Containment...
WinterPsionic 11-21-06, 03:19 PM	Or take Psycristal Containment... Kinda need a Psicrystal first...or is there still the debate on whether or not a SK can get a PsiCrys?
BlaineTog 11-21-06, 04:45 PM	Kinda need a Psicrystal first...or is there still the debate on whether or not a SK can get a PsiCrys?*shoots self in face with a Beanie Baby* Sorry, screwed up. Meant "Subconscious Containment."
WinterPsionic 11-21-06, 05:09 PM	*shoots self in face with a Beanie Baby* Sorry, screwed up. Meant "Subconscious Containment." Only a Beanie Baby :P That sounds doable...though I aways did want a PsiCrystal, just wasn't to crazy about the "lost" level.
ChubZ 12-06-06, 01:01 AM	Firsta of all, HI! I had an idea, about that exotic weapon mind blade feat! I'm trying to play a SK char in a darksun world who is kind of a weapon master in matters of using different kinds of weapons in defferent cases. When someone is to use a heavy tiring weapon I use a more dextrous one etc... With your version of that feat I'd have to take it like 4-5 times. I'd do this instead: Weapon Inclination [PSIONIC] You can shape your mind blade as a weapon you've studied and fought against Prerequisites: Shape mindblade, freedraw, weapon proficiency [maybe others as well, don't know] Benefit: You gain shapes of mindblades as you pass your levels, take time to study a weapon and gain experience with different sorts of weapon usages. [This part I haven't worked out yet: at what lvl you gain the shapes ai: every level after you take this feat you can choose 3 weapons from weapon proficiency list] Special: Because you are inclined to work any weapon as a mind blade you get -2 on using any "real" weapon from your proficiency list except for simple weapons. This reduction doesn't apply when you shape your mindblade as that weapon. [here I have a problem with SK with this feat multiclassing] Well I'm just a newbie and this is my 2 ceramic pieces so... If anyone more experienced can filter this out or comment please do.
saucercrab 12-06-06, 05:33 PM	BlaineTog, Regarding the ability to change a mind blade's special abilities quicker, I didn't see anything mentioned about Dragon magazine from back in March '06, so... issue #341 has an article composed of additional mind blade feats. Among them are Strategic Reassignment & Tactical Reassignment; the former allows the changing of special abilities after 10 minutes, the latter after a full-round action & DC 25 Concentration check. Other feats from the article are: Adamantine Mind Blade (to overcome DR); Align Mind Blade (to overcome DR); Mind Daggers (to form multiple small blades in a single round to throw); Mind Shield (split your mind blade into the standard mind blade & a light shield); Greater Mind Shield (the above shield can be light or heavy, & can have special abilities); Practiced Mind Blade (like Mind Blade Kensai, but with four virtual levels, not three); Reshape Mind Blade (change the mind blade into any type of melee weapon); & Silver Mind Blade (to overcome DR). Don't know how you feel about Dragon material, plus some of the above may conflict with material from Complete Psionic & Races of Eberron.
WinterPsionic 12-06-06, 10:41 PM	Firsta of all, HI! I had an idea, about that exotic weapon mind blade feat! I'm trying to play a SK char in a darksun world who is kind of a weapon master in matters of using different kinds of weapons in defferent cases. When someone is to use a heavy tiring weapon I use a more dextrous one etc... With your version of that feat I'd have to take it like 4-5 times. I'd do this instead: Well I'm just a newbie and this is my 2 ceramic pieces so... If anyone more experienced can filter this out or comment please do. This is effectively WAY overpowered compared to the current norm for granting shapes, at the very most there should be something other then a proficiency for the shape, like say Weapon Focus. At each level after 5th you may shape your mindblade into 1 additional weapon with which you have a decent level of training(Weapon Focus) This way you don't have to waste feats and you'll be able to get a fair number of shapes, knock the pre-reqs down to just SoulKnife and I think you have what your looking for, throw in a level or 2 of Warblade for training and you could effectively shape any weapon you want after a small amount of training. Or you could even try making it a variant in place of Psychic Strike.
saucercrab 12-14-06, 12:39 PM	And the pelvis goes :bump:, and the pelvis goes :bump:. BlaineTog, Any plans on modifying/revising the illumine soul & soulbow PrCs to better conform with your soulknife? Lowering the HD one step & raising the skill points per level one step seem like the most logical things to do, then possibly increase the class skill lists as well. What about the soulbow's Mind Arrow Enhancement ability? Would it be fair to just fold that into (& let it stack with) your soulknife's mindblade enhancements & weapon special abilities?
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 12-14-06, 02:07 PM	Ok, I've a question or two about Exotic Mindblade Shape (Shuriken). Combined with Poisoned Blade, it says you can store an additional 20 doses. Do you really mean 20 additional or 20 total (as opposed to 22, as written)? I guess it doesn't matter an awful lot, but I just wanted to check. Second question: using the shuriken shape essentially nets you multiple throw when you get free draw, increased range when you get multiple throw. So what about bladewind? Normally it would allow you to throw at multiple targets before you otherwise could. That no longer is the case. Are we fine with this? Compliments on the work. It's essentially the version I'm using in my current campaign. Gotta say I love it. With all those bonus psionic feats, Psionic Body is a very feat choice.
BlaineTog 12-14-06, 05:18 PM	BlaineTog, Any plans on modifying/revising the illumine soul & soulbow PrCs to better conform with your soulknife?If I had access to them, I might, but since I don't own CompPsi, nor do I plan on acquiring it any time soon, the chances of this are very low. Omnirahk, First, yes, 22, second, Bladewind is Whirlwind Attack and has really nothing to do with throwing, so yeah, I'm fine with it.
Fargren 12-14-06, 05:45 PM	Soulbow is included in the CPsi preview, at the site. I don't know if you are allowed to modify it, though, even if you you have free acces toit.
BlaineTog 12-14-06, 06:18 PM	Soulbow is included in the CPsi preview, at the site. I don't know if you are allowed to modify it, though, even if you you have free acces toit.Oo la la. Hmm... well, honestly, the soulbow looks too good to me. I'm having a hard time seeing why one wouldn't go into it if one could. I mean, fighter-level number of bonus feats, plus your soulbow adds your wisdom to damage (helps consolidate ability scores), plus you can take Weapon Specialization (or so it seems to say), plus your soulknife is just as good as it was before, plus Close-Quarters Combat, plus Phase Arrow. Even if you don't want to use a bow, take it for the bonus feats; you lose out on Bladewind, but that's a small price to pay. So, I think what I would do would be to add a Soulbow feat that lets you make one type of bow (your choice) as another mindblade shape, and would allow you to choose between Bladewind and Phase Arrow (you could switch out Bladewind if you take the feat after getting it). As a matter of fact, I might as well do just that: SOULBOW [PSIONIC] You can shape your mindblade so that it can fire arrow-type projectiles. Prerequisite: the Shape Mind Blade class feature Benefit: You gain the ability to shape your mindblade into a longbow or composite longbow of a size appropriate for its wielder; choose which when you change the form of your mindblade. For instance, a Medium-sized soulknife with this feat can shape his mindblade into a longbow that deals 1d8 points of piercing damage (crit x3). You may choose the strength rating of your soulbow if you choose composite longbow whenever you resasign your weapon abilities. This form is identicle in all ways (except visually) to the weapon it is replicating, and you may apply feats that could be applied to the replicated weapon, such as Poing Blank Shot etc. Special: Whether you appear to simply fire arrows from your fingertips, create a luminous bow in your hands out of which you can fire arrows, or whatever else is up to you. Additionally, if you take this feat, you may choose to gain the Phase Arrow ability (described below) instead of Bladewind at 9th level, and you may choose to lose Bladewind for Phase Arrow if you gain this feat after 9th level. Phase Arrow (Ps): At 9th level, you can take a full attack action (in lieu of your regular attacks) to expend your psionic focus and launch a mind arrow at a target known to you within range. The mind arrow travels to the target in a straight path, passing through any nonmagical or nonpsionic barrier or wall on its way. (A wall of force, wall of fire, wall of ectoplasm, or the like stops a mind arrow.) This ability negates cover, concealment, and even armor modifiers, but otherwise the attack is rolled normally.
WinterPsionic 12-15-06, 07:14 PM	If I had access to them, I might, but since I don't own CompPsi, nor do I plan on acquiring it any time soon, the chances of this are very low. ...I've got an extra copy I could send you...
RazielK 01-07-07, 05:28 PM	Bump!
OdinTheGrand 01-30-07, 12:54 AM	I'm not so sure that I agree with the fact that the soulknife is underpowered. First off, the mindblade is essentially a free weapon that, depending on the generosity of the DM, should keep par with (maybe even surpass) everybody else's prime weapon. Which means that instead of buying that +2 Hellbane Greatsword you just can't seem to get in a treasure check, the Soulknife can use that money for something else, be it a better cloak of resistance, ring of protection or the like. Not only is it a free weapon, it is a good base weapon(s). It can be used as a longsword (with a good shield with that extra loot your saving), a two-handed bastard sword for 1.5 strength bonus or dual weapons, hell even a thrown Bastard Sword with a range increment of 30 feet. Secondly, the psychic strike and eventual knife to the soul abilities are quite impressive. Providing the target is not mindless or otherwise immune to the effects of this ability, this ability is quite damaging and the knife to the soul ability is invaluable because the ability damage allows no save. Thirdly, Bladewind is amazing because your psychic strike now affects everyone in reach. Because Bladewind does fragment your psychically imbued mindblade into exact identical fragments, the psychic strike affects everyone Bladewind hits, or at least thats the way I see it. Now, I know what your all thinking... The Soulknife has a lame chance to hit any well armored threatening opponent that deserves that extra psychic strike damage. However, instead of just attacking regularly with a regular chance of hitting, use the Deep Impact Feat to resolve the attack as a melee touch attack. Amazing huh. Wait, resolve your psychically enhanced bladewind with Deep Impact and make a devastating melee touch attack against all within reach. Hell, have your wizard enlarge you and summon some extra wolves just to have fun. I've reviewed the soulknife and assessed a good feat choice progression. I think the human would probably be a good choice because of the extra skill point and feat. Also, I'm assuming that you use the retrain feature presented in Player's Handbook II. Anyways, take Psionic Weapon (expanded Psionics) and Up the walls (expanded psionics) at first level. At 3rd level take dodge, and at 4th retrain dodge into Psionic Meditation (expanded psionics). At 6th take Dodge and at 7th retrain into Deep Impact (Expanded Psionics). At 9th take Acrobatic Strike (Player's Handbook II), assuming you're skilled at tumbling. Then from there, maybe aim for cleave or improved critical if you don't want mighty cleaving and/or keen on your Mindblade, elsewise the rest is up to you. Also, make sure you have at least 13 strength and 13 wisdom. Obviously, tumble and concentration are a must for skill choices. Then, if you don't have a rouge-like ally, Jump and Climb are useful, else consider hide and move silently. Lastly Spot might be a good choice because it is a class skill for the Soulknife. This skill selection is based off of 10 intelligence. With this, I think the Soulknife is one of the most interesting classes to take, if you're the type that likes to tumble past opponents and walk on walls, and resolve deadly attacks as melee touch attacks. On the last note, a d10 hit die, 2 good saves, weapon focus and greater weapon focus, speed of thought, and Wild Talent are nice bonuses. A perfect Base Attack Bonus would indeed make this class overpowered, I think it's fine right where it is.:cool:
BlaineTog 01-30-07, 12:57 AM	I'm not so sure that I agree with the fact that the soulknife is underpowered.Well, that's your perogative. You're just wrong. ;) Or, at least, your points have all already been answered rather definitivelly, by empirical play evidence if nothing else.
WinterPsionic 01-30-07, 12:49 PM	First off, the mindblade is essentially a free weapon that, depending on the generosity of the DM, should keep par with (maybe even surpass) everybody else's prime weapon. Which means that instead of buying that +2 Hellbane Greatsword you just can't seem to get in a treasure check... This has already been covered and while there's a chance for the Mindblade to be superior to the parties weapons it's no less possible to find a better weapon in a chest/hoarde/etc. Also the "generosity of the DM" is really no different in terms of expanding on available enchantments then it is allowing an altered class. Secondly, the psychic strike and eventual knife to the soul abilities are quite impressive. Providing the target is not mindless or otherwise immune to the effects of this ability, this ability is quite damaging and the knife to the soul ability is invaluable because the ability damage allows no save. Ok I agree with this. Thirdly, Bladewind is amazing because your psychic strike now affects everyone in reach. Because Bladewind does fragment your psychically imbued mindblade into exact identical fragments, the psychic strike affects everyone Bladewind hits, or at least thats the way I see it. I believe the consensus was that it does effect each "shard" so again point made but I could be wrong on what the rules/consensus/errata determined. Now, I know what your all thinking... The Soulknife has a lame chance to hit any well armored threatening opponent that deserves that extra psychic strike damage. However, instead of just attacking regularly with a regular chance of hitting, use the Deep Impact Feat to resolve the attack as a melee touch attack. Amazing huh. Wait, resolve your psychically enhanced bladewind with Deep Impact and make a devastating melee touch attack against all within reach. Hell, have your wizard enlarge you and summon some extra wolves just to have fun. Guess you didn't see the part under Bladewind where it says it DOES NOT benefit from other feats, hence this combo would NOT work... I've reviewed the soulknife and assessed a good feat choice progression. I think the human would probably be a good choice because of the extra skill point and feat. Also, I'm assuming that you use the retrain feature presented in Player's Handbook II. Anyways, take Psionic Weapon (expanded Psionics) and Up the walls (expanded psionics) at first level. At 3rd level take dodge, and at 4th retrain dodge into Psionic Meditation (expanded psionics). At 6th take Dodge and at 7th retrain into Deep Impact (Expanded Psionics). At 9th take Acrobatic Strike (Player's Handbook II), assuming you're skilled at tumbling. Then from there, maybe aim for cleave or improved critical if you don't want mighty cleaving and/or keen on your Mindblade, elsewise the rest is up to you. Also, make sure you have at least 13 strength and 13 wisdom. This is one way to go about it, I personally haven't played under may DMs that cared for the retraining idea until higher levels so I guess this is case by case. Obviously, tumble and concentration are a must for skill choices. Then, if you don't have a rouge-like ally, Jump and Climb are useful, else consider hide and move silently. Lastly Spot might be a good choice because it is a class skill for the Soulknife. This skill selection is based off of 10 intelligence. Ok well I'm suprised Autohypnosis isn't on the list as it's one of my favorite skills but that's just me. Also with up the walls Jump and Climb are a little less important, granted you still need to jump chasms but just something to think about. With this, I think the Soulknife is one of the most interesting classes to take, if you're the type that likes to tumble past opponents and walk on walls, and resolve deadly attacks as melee touch attacks. On the last note, a d10 hit die, 2 good saves, weapon focus and greater weapon focus, speed of thought, and Wild Talent are nice bonuses. A perfect Base Attack Bonus would indeed make this class overpowered, I think it's fine right where it is.:cool: Tumble past and walk on walls....Ok "Deadly Attacks" as Touch attacks...sure I suppose a Physic Strike imbued bastard sword strike could be deadly as a touch attack, at least comparatively to a normal bastard sword swing... The HD, Saves and several class feats are nice though the class is still a tad confused no matter how you look at it, though I suppose that's only from a general veiwpoint.
OdinTheGrand 01-30-07, 03:31 PM	Well, winterpsionic, I appreciate that you have some weight and counterpoints to your argument other than just saying I'm wrong... Nice counterpoint on the free weapon subject, I agree that the mindblade could become obsolete just as much as it could become superior. Anyways, aye I did miss that under bladewind, however this is debateable because then that means that weapon focus wouldn't work, psychic strike wouldn't work, among others. I think it just means cleave-like abilites and extra attacks through speed or haste don't work. The feat Deep Impact simply states that you resolve your next weapon attack as a melee touch attack, much like psychic strike makes your next successful hit deal extra damage. If psychic strike would work, and its an ability, then why shouldn't Deep Impact. Again this is debateable and subject to the individual DM's mandate. But a good 'fix' then would be to make this attack stack with such feats as deep impact. As far as the skills go, I myself would probaly switch out spot for autohypnosis, just because autohypnosis is cooler and more useful to the individual character, but I deemed spot to be a bit more useful as a team benefit because many classes don't feature it as a class skill.
WinterPsionic 01-30-07, 05:04 PM	Anyways, aye I did miss that under bladewind, however this is debateable because then that means that weapon focus wouldn't work, psychic strike wouldn't work, among others. I think it just means cleave-like abilites and extra attacks through speed or haste don't work. The feat Deep Impact simply states that you resolve your next weapon attack as a melee touch attack, much like psychic strike makes your next successful hit deal extra damage. This is true, perhaps there isn't any RAW mechanics behind it by I look at it in the way that No "action required" feat enhancement work for it's purposes, in other words passive abilities likes Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, etc would still apply however things like Cleave(which may not be usable due to the amount of time the mindblade takes to reshape) and Power Attack take some form of action(regardless of action type, Free, Swift, Sudden, whatever). If psychic strike would work, and its an ability, then why shouldn't Deep Impact. Again this is debateable and subject to the individual DM's mandate. But a good 'fix' then would be to make this attack stack with such feats as deep impact. Physic Strike is an ability directly imbued into the weapon prior to the attack, in a way "temporarily" "modifying" the weapons abilites in order to use it. Now perhaps if Deep Impact we're worded in the same fashion then this discussion might be going the other way. Perhaps someone else has an opinion on it? I was one of the one's that initially argueed that Psychic Strike didn't work either however the wording of Bladewind was broughtup and eventually it just seemed like it could go either way. As far as the skills go, I myself would probaly switch out spot for autohypnosis, just because autohypnosis is cooler and more useful to the individual character, but I deemed spot to be a bit more useful as a team benefit because many classes don't feature it as a class skill. I've always had a druid in the party who's always had a companion with a good spot so I never worried too much but it's a good point.
OdinTheGrand 01-30-07, 05:13 PM	Yea, like most of DnD, the wording on rules is ambiguous at best (with the exception of a few, like the dodge feat). At first glance of the class a while ago, I deemed it underpowered, but I began to think about some conceptual comboes with it and reviewed the class a bit. Thats when I deemed that bladewind would indeed work with Deep Impact and psychic strike. I do agree that if that is not the case, then the class is underpowered. However, if the DM allows Deep Impact and Psychic strike to function with Bladewind, then the class is fine as is. As far as Deep Impact's mechanics go though, the wording is incomplete, but I imagine it as channelling the psionic focus into the blade as to allow it to bypass armor and the like. However, since it's not explained in detail, everyone's allowed their own rendition of it.
Tempest Stormwind 01-30-07, 05:28 PM	Of course, the issue here is that no tactically-savvy enemies (like most of those you'd fight at level 9) are going to give you opportunities to use Bladewind, and if those opportunities come up, Whirlwind Attack is generally a better option since there's no way a soulknife has (without a fix) to improve his reach. Thus, even with Psychic Strike (which requires a separate action to charge and doesn't work on mind-immune creatures) and Deep Impact (which requires you to spend at least two feats to get and perhaps even a third if you want to merely lose a *move* action instead of your entire next turn to refocusing), it's a weak ability. And that assumes you let them stack. I think psychic strike should, but I don't see how Deep Impact should at all (note how it says one attack against each opponent, which means you make separate attacks against each of them, instead of one attack against every opponent, which is one attack that hits all of them). Purely mechanically speaking, of course. I maintain that if you are remaining competitive with an unfixed soulknife, some combination of the following is true: 1) The DM is going easy on you compared to what he should be by the rules 2) Your party doesn't know how to optimize or deliberately makes weak characters 3) There are no intelligently-played spellcasters or manifesters in your party.
OdinTheGrand 01-30-07, 08:21 PM	Ok, let me explain why I think Deep Impact should work. First off, lets just asume that one imbues his weapon with psychic energy as to create a sort of 'phasing' effect, much like a Soulknife imbues his mindblade with psychic energy as to create a damaging effect. Now lets take the mindblade, apply both deep impact and psychic strike effects to it. In the description of Bladewind it says the following "... As a full attack, when wielding his mind blade, a soulknife can give up his regular attacks and instead fragment his mind blade to make one melee attack at his full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach...." Obviously, he makes his mind blade into many mind blade-lets, as so to speak. As a result, he's not attacking each opponent once with the same weapon, rather he's attacking all opponents at the same with many weapons. Now continuing the ability description; "Each fragment functions identically to the soulknife's regular mind blade. (For example, if the mind blade were in the form of a +1 keen bastard sword, due to the soulknife's mind blade enhancement and shape mind blade abilities, each fragment attacks and deals damage as a +1 keen bastard sword.)" Which means that any effect currently on the unfragmented mind blade is carried over onto the fragments. Purely mechanically speaking, of course. I presume this is how Psychic Strike was deemed stackable with Bladewind. Deep Impact is no different, and should work with Bladewind following the same logic pattern. Granted that Deep Impact is applied to the weapon similarily to Psychic Strike, which is by psionic focusing. Anyways, to get whirlwind you need to take 5 feats. 1 of which is essentially useless to a character that can't provoke attacks of oppurtunity by casting and will rather tumble past units than provoke attacks normally. The world of DnD is vast, and an unfathomable amount of situations are possible. Which means that bladewind doesn't necessarily lose its usefulness at 9th level. If the enemies aren't in position for a good bladewind, thats what the brute force bull rusher is for, he can at least put 2 in position, making the one he pushes provoke attacks as it is pushed, maybe from the invisible sneak attacking rouge, and/or the greataxe wielding barbarian, which is why DnD is majorly a teamwork game of tactic and maximizing good chance to hit attacks per round. I'll give you that some situations are not effecient options for a bladewind, but its not all of them. By the way, before an encounter, the wizard could cast enlarge on the soulknife, increasing his reach one category. Also, please elaborate to why whirlwind is better than bladewind when they are essentially the same thing.:confused:
WinterPsionic 01-30-07, 11:07 PM	By the way, before an encounter, the wizard could cast enlarge on the soulknife, increasing his reach one category. Also, please elaborate to why whirlwind is better than bladewind when they are essentially the same thing.:confused: You baically hit the nail on the head, Whirlwind can be performed with a Reach weapon while bladewind requires the targets to be on top of you. Ideally the only way to really get 100% effect would be to drop in the middle of a crowd and wind away... Also as a follow up to the mechanics presented by TS, Deep Impact does not indicate the weapon holds the charge so when the blade splits that aspect would not be present in each blade/shard. If it were then as I said previously we may be discussing a different topic then this one.
OdinTheGrand 01-30-07, 11:37 PM	I don't disagree that bladewind isn't as effective as whirlwind strike, but I was merely stressing that bladewind is free for the SK whereas Wstrike takes 5 feats. However, I stand by that they both function essentially the same, its just that a reach weapon can be used in conjunction with Wstrike. I never meant to mandate how Deep Impact should work. I was merely proposing a viable mechanic for it and why I think its not dissimilar from Psychic strike in terms of bladewind compatability. But, like I said before, a good fix for the SK would be to clarify that both psychic strike and deep impact (and maybe a few others for that matter) work with bladewind.
The Crystal Mind 02-01-07, 01:29 AM	In Dragon #341, there are some mind blade feats (Strategic Reassignment and Tactical Reassignment) which allow you to change the time it takes you to change enchantments on your mindblade, to a minimum of 1 full round action. Maybe they would be better as class features instead?
Uchiha_Arthas 03-04-07, 02:45 AM	First Grats for a magnificently (modded) class, Second as New.B Psionics player, would changing Wild Talent for Hidden Talent make any difference in your Classe's power? Is it still possible to take Weapon Finesse (MindBlade) and expect it too work for all (mindblade) light weapons? A suggestion I do have for your class is feat allowing the addition of any weapon enchancement ability equalling to +3 enchancement value to the weapon power table. The player could choose three seperate +1 powers by taking this feat or one +1 and one +2 or just one +3 power. This feat could be selected multiple times. The player needs to have experianced this power before he can pick it. Currently if a player wants to shape his mindblade into an exotic weapon, he has to pay twice. One feat for the reguler Proficency and a second for the mindblade version. Another suggestion would be to allow a character to take a Exotic MindBlade Weapon feat even for weapons they are not proficent with and be Proficent only with the Mindblade version of that weapon. If the guy picks up a reguler version of a Greatsword for example and has Exotic Mindblade(Greatsword) he wont be able to use it.
WinterPsionic 03-04-07, 01:52 PM	Second as New.B Psionics player, would changing Wild Talent for Hidden Talent make any difference in your Classe's power? This was a suggested Wizards "fix" for the class, see here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a). Is it still possible to take Weapon Finesse (MindBlade) and expect it too work for all (mindblade) light weapons? If you were to acquire other forms that are light, yes it would work, same base idea as Weapon Focus(MB) Currently if a player wants to shape his mindblade into an exotic weapon, he has to pay twice. One feat for the reguler Proficency and a second for the mindblade version. Another suggestion would be to allow a character to take a Exotic MindBlade Weapon feat even for weapons they are not proficent with and be Proficent only with the Mindblade version of that weapon. If the guy picks up a reguler version of a Greatsword for example and has Exotic Mindblade(Greatsword) he wont be able to use it. EDIT: Opps forogt Blaine had the clause in his feat. I would note that the "official" WotC shape feats for Exotic's didn't require a pre-existing proficiency...just something to consider.
Telemon_Ajax 03-05-07, 08:24 PM	I think making Invisiblade ignore shield bonus would be nice :)
SchematicsNinja 04-09-07, 10:39 AM	Blain, seriously like what you've done. anyway I think that, as stated before, there should be a minor adjustment for people doing exotic weaponry so they dont have to waste two feats, it discourages exotic weapon choices. something I'm not a huge fan of.
SchematicsNinja 04-09-07, 10:54 AM	Flickering Thoughts [PSIONIC] You can change the shape of your mindblade dramatically with hardly a thought. Prerequisites: the Free Draw Shape Mind Blade and quickshaper class abilities Benefit: You can change the shape of your mindblade as a free action. Normal: You must spend a full round action to change the shape of your mindblade. probably overpowered... but this would be nice. >< EDIT >< well, after getting enough yelling out of my friends I want to be more descript: I think the requisits on this should be mindboggling, if at all included. think either high wis and int requirements or a progressive series of different feats. but it is the next logical progression for this class, at some point it needs to be free of the binds of its previous levels, especially since this fix seems to be focused on weapon skill and mastery.