Neo Ripoff Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Neo Ripoff Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Malcaor
10-21-07, 10:50 AM I'm not sure if this belong here or in character optimization, sorry if this is the wrong spot.

I am building a character loosely based on Neo from the Matrix. We're at level 10, so I'm going Monk5/Psion5. The focus of the character will be melee combat upgraded with powers and psionic feats, as well as being really F-ing fast/acrobatic. The campaign settign is Eberron, and I have no idea what the rest of the group will be.

Feats:
Stunning fist Deflect Arrows Unarmed Strike Weapon Finesse Mental Leap Up The Walls Psionic Weapon Psionic Meditation
*two not picked

I am going to ask the DM if I can make up a psionic equivalent of the Practiced Spellcaster feat (complete divine). This would allow me to spend 4 more power points on a power than normal. If I can do this, I may also take the Twin Power feat.

Powers:
1st Thicken Skin Deceleration Defensive Precognition
Offensive Precognition Offensive Prescience 2nd Animal Affinity
Empathatic Transfer Energy Adaptation Chameleon 3rd Hustle
Time Hop

I am yet to buy items. Suggestions for particularly useful items would be appreciated.

I am looking to build as powerful a character as I can, without breaking rules of course. At first I wanted to Twin Power Hustle, but I realized that I will not be able to do that for quite a few levels =(.

UPDATE:

Based on suggestions I have dropped the psion levels and am instead a Monk7/FistofZuoken3

Feats: Stunning Fist ::: Deflect Arrows ::: Imp. Unarmed Strike ::: Imp. Disarm ::: Wild Talent ::: Psionic Weapon :::
Greater Psionic Weapon ::: Up the Walls ::: Psionic Meditation

Powers: Offensive Precognition ::: Defensive Precognition ::: Hustle

I like this build. It lets me act a lot like Neo, and has pretty good damage output as well (1D10 + 4D6 + Str). Hustle will be used on turns when I need to move, and attain Focus. The precognitions will not be as useful, but will aid me when necessary.
JulesCARV
10-21-07, 11:13 AM Instead of monk/psion, have you considered going monk/fist of zuoken? I mean, you'll be better at monk stuff, you'll draw from the awesome psychic warrior power list, etc.

Also, you won't be intelligence-dependent, so you can base everything off of wisdom. This also seems truer to a Neo ripoff, since Neo is portrayed as rather dull-witted but "in-tune" in the Matrix movies, which would probably best be represented with low intelligence and high wisdom.

Also, I think that you want Psionic Fist, not Psionic Weapon.

(If you happen to own Secrets of Sarlona, you might also consider using the Tashalatora feat, and go monk/psychic warrior, monk/warmind, or the like, but I'd guess you don't have Secrets of Sarlona. I know I don't. ;)).
Xaxor
10-21-07, 11:22 AM So you still have two feats left? That's great. Since you're playing in Eberron, check out Secrets of Sarlona for the Tashalatora feat. Your psion levels will stack with your monk levels for AC bonus, flurry, and unarmed strike damage. It also requires Monatic Training, which will allow you to freely multiclass between Monk and Psion. Or, you could take the Ascetic Psion feat from the same book which gives you the AC bonus, allows you to use Intelligence instead of Wisdom for your AC, and allows you to gain psionic focus with a standard action. Both of the will take up your last two feats.
InkBlot
10-21-07, 12:52 PM I am going to ask the DM if I can make up a psionic equivalent of the Practiced Spellcaster feat (complete divine). This would allow me to spend 4 more power points on a power than normal. If I can do this, I may also take the Twin Power feat.

Practiced Manifester already exists. It was printed in Complete Psionics. However, I wouldn't recommend buying Complete Psionics just for Practiced Manifester. It's just a find/replace job on Practiced Spellcaster (complete with a reference to "powers per day").
Malcaor
10-21-07, 03:58 PM I checked out Fist of Zuoken and have changed my mind. It definetly seems like a better choice.

I chose to take psionic weapon becuase a monk's fists count as weapons for the purposes of spells and abilities that affect weapons. Taking psionic weapon gives me more options than taking fist.
carnivore
10-21-07, 07:45 PM dont use fist of Zuoken.... just use the feats: Monastic Training(Psion) and Tashalatora(Psion)...... then Psion progresses Monk abilities:Unarmed Damage,AC bonus, FLURRY of BLOWS

if you did this:

Human
Monk 2/ Psion 8

feats:
Monastic Training(Psion).. (monk bonus feat)
Carmondine Monk.....Int to AC and Monk abilities, and +2monk lvls for Unarmed Damage
Combat Reflexes............ (monk bonus feat)
Psicrystal Affinity........... (Psion bonus feat)
Tashalatora(Psion)
Extend Power
Psicrystal Containment .... (Psion bonus feat)
Psionic Meditation

BAB +5
Unarmed Damage without items= 2d6
AC = Dex mod + Int mod +2 +Psionic powers(Inertial Armor,Force Screen,etc...)
Flurry = +5/+5

Psionics:
PP 58+bonus
Powers Known= 17
max power level 4th

much better than Fist of Zuoken:yuck:
:D
Fafnir
10-22-07, 08:47 AM much better than Fist of Zuoken:yuck:

I disagree. The Psywarrior power list allows superior buffing, even if the Fist of Zuoken itself is slightly subpar.
I'd personally go with Monk/Psywarrior, using a build similar to yours but without Carmendine Monk (or avoid Monk altogether and grab Superior Unarmed Strike).
Malcaor
10-22-07, 05:53 PM Thanx for the suggestion carnivore but I think the fist of zuoken build is a bit more true to Neo.

I have updated the first post witht he new build.
sijigs
10-22-07, 09:23 PM Well.. are you after the beginner Neo.. or Uber-Neo?

I just rewatched it the other day so got interested on this thread. I'm more inclined to Carni's version.. only because doing the psion way gives u the cool utility powers..eg

"Tank, load me skills on flying this dragon.." (psychic reformation - slow version.. hehe)

"Free your minddddddddd..." (temporal acceleration)

.. and all that flying.. sheesh
Malcaor
10-23-07, 09:37 AM I would said the current build is at the level of Neo at the end of the second movie. Once we start to level up, I'll probably be posting in here to find out powers that represent things Neo did in the movie.

The precognitions would represent him seeing the numbers and knowing what's going to happen. Hustle would be when he is doing the crazy slow motion stuff.
Lycanthromancer
10-23-07, 01:31 PM Note that if you're going with Practiced Manifester, it increases your *actual* manifester level (though it doesn't give you additional powers known), which increases your bonus power points from your ability score. See the text in the XPH for details.

This is more than fair, since Practiced Spellcaster gives you free scaling and Practiced Manifester...well...doesn't. Giving you a handful of bonus pp will close the gap a bit and make you more useful without making you significantly more powerful. :)
InkBlot
10-23-07, 02:02 PM On the other hand, Practiced Manifester specifically states that it doesn't increase your powers per day. Since power points are the only thing that increase how many times you can use your powers in a day, Practiced Manifester can't give you more bonus power points.

On the other other hand, augmenting a psionic power can produce the effects of a higher-level spell. For example, augmenting psionic charm can produce the effects of charm monster. Increasing the level of spells you have access to is not one of the benefits of Practiced Spellcaster, so losing a handful of virtual power points is a fine balance against this quirk of Practiced Manifester.

On the other other other hand, Practiced Manifester is rather obviously a dismal example of the find/replace function of the author's word processing application. It's up to each group to interpret Practiced Manifester on their own. Your DM may vary.

Jeeze, how many hands do you have?
Lycanthromancer
10-23-07, 02:15 PM On the last hand (of what appears to be a hecatoncheires), you never get "more powers per day" unless it's with psi-like abilities, or somesuch. I'm voting for the crappy cut/paste theorem.
chicgeek
10-23-07, 03:56 PM Instead of Thicken Skin, I would suggest Inertial Armor (and make it invisible). It provides a greater AC bonus, lasts longer and augments much better. At ML3, IA will give you +5AC for 3 hours, but TS will only give you +1 and last 30min.
RobbyPants
10-24-07, 10:28 AM Feats: Stunning Fist ::: Deflect Arrows ::: Imp. Unarmed Strike ::: Imp. Disarm ::: Wild Talent ::: Psionic Weapon :::
Greater Psionic Weapon ::: Up the Walls ::: Psionic Meditation

Powers: Offensive Precognition ::: Defensive Precognition ::: Hustle

I like this build. It lets me act a lot like Neo, and has pretty good damage output as well (1D10 + 4D6 + Str). Hustle will be used on turns when I need to move, and attain Focus. The precognitions will not be as useful, but will aid me when necessary.
If you're going to do a monk, consider taking Improved Natural Attack from the Monster Manual at 6th level. It increases the damage of your unarmed strike (considered a natual attack for a monk), by one size category. So you can expect returns like:
Med Large
_______________
1d6 1d8
1d8 2d6
1d10 2d8
2d6 3d6
2d8 3d8
2d10 4d8

All in all, it's not a bad use of a feat.
Lycanthromancer
10-24-07, 01:08 PM I'd rather have something that gives a static bonus, rather than an increase in die size. After all, increasing your damage by +2 is better than increasing a 1d6 to a 1d8.

Additional dice of damage is something else, however.
ToastedAmphibian
10-24-07, 10:18 PM Ok, say your unarmed strike deals 1d10 damage

1d10+2=3-12
2d8=2-16

Typically it gives you a minmum damage of 1 lower, but a higher max damage. This benifit only gets bigger as you unarmed damge goes up, like a monks does And if your going to use expansion, its even better. Plus, nothign says you cant add the static bonus on also.
CrimsonDeath
10-25-07, 01:27 AM It may even be more helpful to look at average damage:

1d6+2 (5.5) 1d8 (4.5)
1d8+2 (6.5) 2d6 (7)
1d10+2 (7.5) 2d8 (9)
2d6+2 (9) 3d6 (10.5)
2d8+2 (11) 3d8 (13.5)
2d10+2 (13) 4d8 (18)

On average, Improved Natural Attack comes out ahead of a static +2 bonus on everything but 1d6 vs 1d8, which means that, statistically, you'll be doing more damage over the character's lifetime. The exact static bonus you'd need in order to keep up with INA varies from about +3 to +5, until level 20 when it would apparently need to jump to +9.

Note that, if you're using Expansion, INA gets even better. On the other hand, if you're using Compression, you'll want static bonuses.
Lycanthromancer
10-25-07, 01:51 PM Meh.

:P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Malcaor 10-21-07, 10:50 AM	I'm not sure if this belong here or in character optimization, sorry if this is the wrong spot. I am building a character loosely based on Neo from the Matrix. We're at level 10, so I'm going Monk5/Psion5. The focus of the character will be melee combat upgraded with powers and psionic feats, as well as being really F-ing fast/acrobatic. The campaign settign is Eberron, and I have no idea what the rest of the group will be. Feats: Stunning fist Deflect Arrows Unarmed Strike Weapon Finesse Mental Leap Up The Walls Psionic Weapon Psionic Meditation *two not picked I am going to ask the DM if I can make up a psionic equivalent of the Practiced Spellcaster feat (complete divine). This would allow me to spend 4 more power points on a power than normal. If I can do this, I may also take the Twin Power feat. Powers: 1st Thicken Skin Deceleration Defensive Precognition Offensive Precognition Offensive Prescience 2nd Animal Affinity Empathatic Transfer Energy Adaptation Chameleon 3rd Hustle Time Hop I am yet to buy items. Suggestions for particularly useful items would be appreciated. I am looking to build as powerful a character as I can, without breaking rules of course. At first I wanted to Twin Power Hustle, but I realized that I will not be able to do that for quite a few levels =(. UPDATE: Based on suggestions I have dropped the psion levels and am instead a Monk7/FistofZuoken3 Feats: Stunning Fist ::: Deflect Arrows ::: Imp. Unarmed Strike ::: Imp. Disarm ::: Wild Talent ::: Psionic Weapon ::: Greater Psionic Weapon ::: Up the Walls ::: Psionic Meditation Powers: Offensive Precognition ::: Defensive Precognition ::: Hustle I like this build. It lets me act a lot like Neo, and has pretty good damage output as well (1D10 + 4D6 + Str). Hustle will be used on turns when I need to move, and attain Focus. The precognitions will not be as useful, but will aid me when necessary.
JulesCARV 10-21-07, 11:13 AM	Instead of monk/psion, have you considered going monk/fist of zuoken? I mean, you'll be better at monk stuff, you'll draw from the awesome psychic warrior power list, etc. Also, you won't be intelligence-dependent, so you can base everything off of wisdom. This also seems truer to a Neo ripoff, since Neo is portrayed as rather dull-witted but "in-tune" in the Matrix movies, which would probably best be represented with low intelligence and high wisdom. Also, I think that you want Psionic Fist, not Psionic Weapon. (If you happen to own Secrets of Sarlona, you might also consider using the Tashalatora feat, and go monk/psychic warrior, monk/warmind, or the like, but I'd guess you don't have Secrets of Sarlona. I know I don't. ;)).
Xaxor 10-21-07, 11:22 AM	So you still have two feats left? That's great. Since you're playing in Eberron, check out Secrets of Sarlona for the Tashalatora feat. Your psion levels will stack with your monk levels for AC bonus, flurry, and unarmed strike damage. It also requires Monatic Training, which will allow you to freely multiclass between Monk and Psion. Or, you could take the Ascetic Psion feat from the same book which gives you the AC bonus, allows you to use Intelligence instead of Wisdom for your AC, and allows you to gain psionic focus with a standard action. Both of the will take up your last two feats.
InkBlot 10-21-07, 12:52 PM	I am going to ask the DM if I can make up a psionic equivalent of the Practiced Spellcaster feat (complete divine). This would allow me to spend 4 more power points on a power than normal. If I can do this, I may also take the Twin Power feat. Practiced Manifester already exists. It was printed in Complete Psionics. However, I wouldn't recommend buying Complete Psionics just for Practiced Manifester. It's just a find/replace job on Practiced Spellcaster (complete with a reference to "powers per day").
Malcaor 10-21-07, 03:58 PM	I checked out Fist of Zuoken and have changed my mind. It definetly seems like a better choice. I chose to take psionic weapon becuase a monk's fists count as weapons for the purposes of spells and abilities that affect weapons. Taking psionic weapon gives me more options than taking fist.
carnivore 10-21-07, 07:45 PM	dont use fist of Zuoken.... just use the feats: Monastic Training(Psion) and Tashalatora(Psion)...... then Psion progresses Monk abilities:Unarmed Damage,AC bonus, FLURRY of BLOWS if you did this: Human Monk 2/ Psion 8 feats: Monastic Training(Psion).. (monk bonus feat) Carmondine Monk.....Int to AC and Monk abilities, and +2monk lvls for Unarmed Damage Combat Reflexes............ (monk bonus feat) Psicrystal Affinity........... (Psion bonus feat) Tashalatora(Psion) Extend Power Psicrystal Containment .... (Psion bonus feat) Psionic Meditation BAB +5 Unarmed Damage without items= 2d6 AC = Dex mod + Int mod +2 +Psionic powers(Inertial Armor,Force Screen,etc...) Flurry = +5/+5 Psionics: PP 58+bonus Powers Known= 17 max power level 4th much better than Fist of Zuoken:yuck: :D
Fafnir 10-22-07, 08:47 AM	much better than Fist of Zuoken:yuck: I disagree. The Psywarrior power list allows superior buffing, even if the Fist of Zuoken itself is slightly subpar. I'd personally go with Monk/Psywarrior, using a build similar to yours but without Carmendine Monk (or avoid Monk altogether and grab Superior Unarmed Strike).
Malcaor 10-22-07, 05:53 PM	Thanx for the suggestion carnivore but I think the fist of zuoken build is a bit more true to Neo. I have updated the first post witht he new build.
sijigs 10-22-07, 09:23 PM	Well.. are you after the beginner Neo.. or Uber-Neo? I just rewatched it the other day so got interested on this thread. I'm more inclined to Carni's version.. only because doing the psion way gives u the cool utility powers..eg "Tank, load me skills on flying this dragon.." (psychic reformation - slow version.. hehe) "Free your minddddddddd..." (temporal acceleration) .. and all that flying.. sheesh
Malcaor 10-23-07, 09:37 AM	I would said the current build is at the level of Neo at the end of the second movie. Once we start to level up, I'll probably be posting in here to find out powers that represent things Neo did in the movie. The precognitions would represent him seeing the numbers and knowing what's going to happen. Hustle would be when he is doing the crazy slow motion stuff.
Lycanthromancer 10-23-07, 01:31 PM	Note that if you're going with Practiced Manifester, it increases your actual manifester level (though it doesn't give you additional powers known), which increases your bonus power points from your ability score. See the text in the XPH for details. This is more than fair, since Practiced Spellcaster gives you free scaling and Practiced Manifester...well...doesn't. Giving you a handful of bonus pp will close the gap a bit and make you more useful without making you significantly more powerful. :)
InkBlot 10-23-07, 02:02 PM	On the other hand, Practiced Manifester specifically states that it doesn't increase your powers per day. Since power points are the only thing that increase how many times you can use your powers in a day, Practiced Manifester can't give you more bonus power points. On the other other hand, augmenting a psionic power can produce the effects of a higher-level spell. For example, augmenting psionic charm can produce the effects of charm monster. Increasing the level of spells you have access to is not one of the benefits of Practiced Spellcaster, so losing a handful of virtual power points is a fine balance against this quirk of Practiced Manifester. On the other other other hand, Practiced Manifester is rather obviously a dismal example of the find/replace function of the author's word processing application. It's up to each group to interpret Practiced Manifester on their own. Your DM may vary. Jeeze, how many hands do you have?
Lycanthromancer 10-23-07, 02:15 PM	On the last hand (of what appears to be a hecatoncheires), you never get "more powers per day" unless it's with psi-like abilities, or somesuch. I'm voting for the crappy cut/paste theorem.
chicgeek 10-23-07, 03:56 PM	Instead of Thicken Skin, I would suggest Inertial Armor (and make it invisible). It provides a greater AC bonus, lasts longer and augments much better. At ML3, IA will give you +5AC for 3 hours, but TS will only give you +1 and last 30min.
RobbyPants 10-24-07, 10:28 AM	Feats: Stunning Fist ::: Deflect Arrows ::: Imp. Unarmed Strike ::: Imp. Disarm ::: Wild Talent ::: Psionic Weapon ::: Greater Psionic Weapon ::: Up the Walls ::: Psionic Meditation Powers: Offensive Precognition ::: Defensive Precognition ::: Hustle I like this build. It lets me act a lot like Neo, and has pretty good damage output as well (1D10 + 4D6 + Str). Hustle will be used on turns when I need to move, and attain Focus. The precognitions will not be as useful, but will aid me when necessary. If you're going to do a monk, consider taking Improved Natural Attack from the Monster Manual at 6th level. It increases the damage of your unarmed strike (considered a natual attack for a monk), by one size category. So you can expect returns like: Med Large _______________ 1d6 1d8 1d8 2d6 1d10 2d8 2d6 3d6 2d8 3d8 2d10 4d8 All in all, it's not a bad use of a feat.
Lycanthromancer 10-24-07, 01:08 PM	I'd rather have something that gives a static bonus, rather than an increase in die size. After all, increasing your damage by +2 is better than increasing a 1d6 to a 1d8. Additional dice of damage is something else, however.
ToastedAmphibian 10-24-07, 10:18 PM	Ok, say your unarmed strike deals 1d10 damage 1d10+2=3-12 2d8=2-16 Typically it gives you a minmum damage of 1 lower, but a higher max damage. This benifit only gets bigger as you unarmed damge goes up, like a monks does And if your going to use expansion, its even better. Plus, nothign says you cant add the static bonus on also.
CrimsonDeath 10-25-07, 01:27 AM	It may even be more helpful to look at average damage: 1d6+2 (5.5) 1d8 (4.5) 1d8+2 (6.5) 2d6 (7) 1d10+2 (7.5) 2d8 (9) 2d6+2 (9) 3d6 (10.5) 2d8+2 (11) 3d8 (13.5) 2d10+2 (13) 4d8 (18) On average, Improved Natural Attack comes out ahead of a static +2 bonus on everything but 1d6 vs 1d8, which means that, statistically, you'll be doing more damage over the character's lifetime. The exact static bonus you'd need in order to keep up with INA varies from about +3 to +5, until level 20 when it would apparently need to jump to +9. Note that, if you're using Expansion, INA gets even better. On the other hand, if you're using Compression, you'll want static bonuses.
Lycanthromancer 10-25-07, 01:51 PM	Meh. :P