Post/Author/DateTime	Post
monai75 04-15-08, 04:32 AM	as the heading says he newest member in my long running D+D campaign is a 5th level Elan Psion. I do not have a problem with refreshing my knowledge of the psionic rules. But on the 1st session, this guy was trying to get away with murder. He was basically trying to see how much we did, or did not know about the rules and what we would call him out on. As a DM it put me in a strange situation. Its this guys 1st session with my well established group of 5 others, and I am forced to call out the books and screech the game to a halt. This does not happen normally, cause the rest of us know what we need to know about the rule to keep the game moving smooth. I do not want to be one of those DM's who bans psionics. But I do not want the psionics to become a big red button that slows the game down to a halt. How do I run a game where I do not have to become a rules genius in psionics, and still be able to keep this guy on the up and up with what he is doing with his psionic character.
calronmoonflower 04-15-08, 04:39 AM	Are are free to back up what you say with "Because I say so." Normally this is bad, but if you are willing to go through the rules with him at the end of the game it should be alright. Other that that you can point him at the stickied thread here, as they clarify the most common problems.
Shaggy_Shaggs 04-15-08, 04:42 AM	"You're welcome to play D&D with us. However, if you insist on being an asshat, you can do it somewhere other than my table."
Bacris 04-15-08, 07:14 AM	"You're welcome to play D&D with us. However, if you insist on being an asshat, you can do it somewhere other than my table." What he said. If the player was definitely trying to do things the rules specifically do not allow, give him a warning "Know the rules the next time you try to do something, because cheating is strictly prohibited." The next time he does it, calmly let him know he'll need to roll up a new character. Now, if it's simply he's doing things you didn't realize he could, but is still in the rules, that's a different story. I'd also recommend a 15-minute session just you and him on what his character can do and the rules for his character. That way, you don't have to review EVERYTHING in the XPH, just the rules for his character.
hogarth 04-15-08, 07:16 AM	What illegal shenanigans was the guy trying to get away with? Generally, I don't think there are a huge number of rules that you need to be familiar with; just the general rules on manifesting and the specific rules on the 11 or so powers that the guy might have.
Captain_Kobold 04-15-08, 09:33 AM	I'm with Bacris on this one. Before the next session, inform him that since you don't have such a good understanding of the rules, could he please police the psionics himself, in order to save wasting time in looking stuff up. Therefore could he please make sure that he knows how all of his abilities work. Mention this to the others at the beginning of the next session. Let him get away with anything that he says he can do. If any on the other players quetion something, remind them thay the psion player has given his word that his character can do what he says he can. Just make a note of anything you have misgivings about. After the session, check up on any of the suspicious abilities you made the notes on. If everything checks out, fair enough. If it turns out that he was abusing the psionics rules, you have full justification for dropping the hammer on him in front of all the other players at the next session.
InkBlot 04-15-08, 11:01 AM	What you suggest, Captain Kobold, seems like it would just generate a lot of bad feelings between this person and the OP. Besides the general worth of being good to other people, the only thing worse than an asshat is an asshat who's P.O.ed at you specifically. Don't invite him to cheat, and then kick him out when he does. Just look over the rules yourself, and take 15 minutes with the guy before the game to go over the rules and the few powers his character knows. The rules for psionics are a lot like the rules for spellcasting. The big differences are that you have power points instead of spell slots, and augmentation instead of free scaling. Remember the two Golden Rules below. 1. You can't spend more power points than your manifester level. This cap applies for all power point costs associated with manifesting a power, including metapsionic feats and augmentation. A 5th level psion can only spend 5 power points. So if he wants to manifest a maximized energy ray (fire), it will only do 7 points of damage. Since he spent 4 power points on maximize, he only had room for one more to manifest the power. If he didn't use maximize, then he could have spent 5 points to manifest the power for a total of 5d6 + 5 damage. This limit doesn't apply to things which aren't powers, but still cost points. It doens't apply to an elan's racial abilities, and it doesn't apply to deep crystal weapons. 2. You can only expend your psionic focus on one thing at a time. Since every metapsionic feat requires you to expend your focus, you can only apply one metapsionic feat at a time. You can also only use a metapsionic feat once every other turn, since it takes a full round action to become focused again. There are feats to mitigate these disadvantages; one lets you use your psicrystal's focus instead of yours, and the other lets you become focused as a move action.
Selgard 04-15-08, 11:35 AM	I agree with the rule of "What I say goes at the table, we can discuss it afterwards if you wish". It lets him play what he wants- and doesn't let the game come to a grinding halt every 30 seconds. Not being sure what exactly he was doing (since you didn't elaborate that i could see), i would suggest having him type up each power he knows and have it as a print out (with page numbers listed). Do the same for each psionic "feat" he knows. This should give him a "mini psi book" to look to during the game/combat that will reduce page flipping. Those two things combined should work well towards helping you not have to ban the class entirely. If you are *positive* he's just tryin to see how much he can get away with- do keep in mind that this problem will Not be alleviated simply by banning the psionics. He can try the same thing with wizards, clerics, druids, arcanists, etc... If you are that positive- then go the "no asshats at the table" route, as mentioned by a previous poster. Good luck with him, at any rate :) -S
InkBlot 04-15-08, 12:54 PM	Not being sure what exactly he was doing (since you didn't elaborate that i could see), i would suggest having him type up each power he knows and have it as a print out (with page numbers listed). Do the same for each psionic "feat" he knows. This should give him a "mini psi book" to look to during the game/combat that will reduce page flipping. This is a great idea. I do something like this (sometimes with index cards) with any character I make who uses a large variety of different abilities. It cuts decision-making time down to at least half, and makes honest mistakes honestly rare. To save time, you don't have to type it up yourself. Just go to the System Reference Document (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionic.html) and copy/paste the material you need to a new document. You'll still need the physical books to get the pagenumbers, but darn if the SRD isn't one of the best parts of 3.5e. So handy!
monai75 04-15-08, 12:57 PM	Thank you for the ideas. I DO have a good understanding of the rule of Psionics, that is why I saw so many times his efforts to snow us over. It has been nice to see so many other feeling the same way I do about what toi do. I will pull him aside and go over the rules with him. I will have him type out a mini psi book containing the rules around all of his psi powers, and I will give him enough rope to hang himself. Thank you for the ideas and your time. Case closed.
AntiDjinn 04-15-08, 01:32 PM	It sounds like the problem is not so much that he is playing a psion as that his playstyle doesn't mesh with your group's. You are all playing to have fun, he is playing to win. If it doesn't work out there is no law that says anyone who joins a group must stay there for the rest of his life. Certainly try the suggestions given above to make him follow the rules, but if the goals are at odds it may well be that no amount of enforcing the mechanics is going to fix the underlying problem.
Hihiuloa 04-23-08, 12:35 AM	I would like to add to what AntiDjinn remarked and suggest that you speak with the new player and find out what his motivations as a player are, what he likes/dislikes in a game, what he wants to do with this particular character, what makes a game fun for him, what makes it a challenge, what makes it a drag or low fun, etc. I would also describe for him the what and how of your group: what most like, how they like, what they expect - and is expected from them -, how the group interacts and how their characters interact, player and character goals, etc. Give the new player a chance to understand the new environment. He may be exhibiting poor learned traits from a former group; or even worse: traits learned for survival within a former group; or even worse again: the "norm" playing style of that former group! Scary but could be true. (And, no, that sentence's syntax will not stand up under a Eng Maj scrutiny. ;) ) Give the new player a chance to mesh, and give them some tools/info to help him/her. I would try to "guide" the new player toward a more compatible place that matches your group's style and method of gaming. Then make your decision on stay/go. Just a few ideas for thought. V
DracoPhoenix 04-23-08, 03:53 AM	I'm with the "The player's the problem" camp. He's the one trying to "bend" the rules, not the rules seem outright broken. I'm also supporting the "Tell him to knock it off" camp :). The FAQ on this thread should be able to dismiss most of what he tries - or at least provide supporting counter arguments should he try something. Being new to the game allows him to ask for rule confirmation, not being a cheater. Out of curiosity, any good / funny examples of his "misunderstanding" of the rules?