New Power Astral Mount [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTimePost
Jovknee

08-13-07, 03:21 PM
I am thinking about a new power called Astral Mount. I'd make the power a first level and lasting 2 hours per level just like the Mount spell. I'd also like to add these following augments.

If you spend 2 extra power points you can create an additional mount. The duration is split between each of these mounts that are created. ex. 2 mounts at 3rd level for 3 PP's and each mount will last for 3 hours.

If you spend an additional 4 power points you can create a mount that can swim with a speed of 40'.

If you spend an additional 6 power points you can create a mount that has the spider climb ability with a climb speed of 20'

If you spend an additional 8 power points you can create a mount with wings and a fly speed of 90' with average mobility.

These mounts are in fact astral constructs, but do not count towards the limit of constructs you are allowed to have in exsistance at one time. (if you are playing with that rule, which my DM is) Also if you make a Craft: sculpting check DC - 10 you can create the mount with a saddle, DC 15 for a military saddle. Add an addition +5 for mounts with spider climb and flying ability.

Now I have ran this idea with my DM, but he feels that this is over powered. He likes the idea of having the astral mount power, but he feels that each of the augments should in fact be its individual power! I tried to show him that is not how psionics work. Any advice?

I realize that a DM's word is law in game, and even though I may challenge it from time to time I do follow it. If he must have it his way, then I just don't make the power as I feel that weakens the power to much. At 9th level then I'll either tame a pegasus or get a flying carpet or broom. My idea is making a nice utility power that can help the party out in certain situations.

Thank you for your responses.
Lycanthromancer

08-13-07, 03:55 PM
Just add a few augments to astral construct (or some menu abilities) and call it a day. :)
Racinante

08-13-07, 04:18 PM
Convert Phantom Steed, change the flying ability to flight or swim (at half fly speed) at 14th level, and give it a negative 2 augment to reduce its speed to 20 regardless of level.
Thomar_of_Uointer

08-13-07, 11:31 PM
The astral construct power has no restrictions on riding the construct (besides standard endurance limits). However, the first astral construct that can tenatively carry a Medium-sized manifester is level 2, which means you have to be manifester level 3 to use it.

Mount is a level 1 spell, which means that you are vindicated in making a whole new power for this sort of thing. You'd have to create a new astral construct monster for this (taking away most of their combat ability), as a Large-sized construct at level 1 is easily abusable. In this case, you trade duration for combat ability, the constructs shouldn't even get any natural attacks.

I see what your DM is saying, and I'm inclined to agree with him. What I would do is give the astral mount menu abilities, just like astral constructs get, but only one per construct instead of two. You don't need 9 levels of mount, but you should have the three levels of construct menu items like this:

Menu A

Fast: The mount's base land speed improves by +20'.

Beast of Burden: The mount gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength.

Unassuming: Attacks against the mount suffer 50% concealment, and the mount is effectively invisible when it isn't moving.

Menu B

Very Fast: The mount's base land speed improves by +60'.

Combat Mount: The mount has one slam attack, dealing damage as a club for its size.

Flight: The mount can fly at double its base movement speed with a maneuverability of Medium.

Aquatic: The mount can swim at double its base movement speed. It gains a +8 bonus to Swim checks.

Menu C

Extremely Fast: The mount's base land speed improves by 100'.

Great Mount: The mount grants its rider the benefit of one of the following feats, chosen when you manifest the power): Mounted Archer, Ride-By Attack, Trample.

Aerial Mount: The mount can fly at double its base land speed with a maneuverability of Perfect.

Strider: The mount and its rider are treated as incorporeal creature while moving. They still must end their turn in a space that could normally support them, if they cannot they return to the last point in their movement that could.


See how this works?
Jovknee

08-14-07, 01:23 PM
Just add a few augments to astral construct (or some menu abilities) and call it a day. :)

Problem with this is the 1 round per level duration isn't very long to ride a mount from town to town. You'd be out of power points before you get a few minutes away from the city gates.

It also doesn't always have to be rode upon, but could be used to carry loot or injured players.

Thomar, I originally had used the astral construct chart and removed some of the abilities. But my DM did not like the idea of me having a flying mount anytime soon. Originally I had the duration at 1 hour per level, and in no way could be used to harm a living being. In fact if you did use it as such it would dissapate and cause no damage. (I put this in to prevent anyone from using it to create another fighting machine). I also put in that the smallest of sizes was small. However the DM figured out I'd get a flying mount long before anyone else could fly and said no to this. However he did say he'd let me make several powers that would acomplish each mobility type, such as Astral mount 1 - land as a 1st lvl power. Astral mount 2 - water, as a 3rd level power, Astral mount 3 - earth as a 4th level power, and Astral mount 4 - air as a 5th level power.

My problem with this is that I feel this goes against the heart of psionics. Instead of augmenting one power, he wants 4 powers, which I feel can be done with one.

Thormar, at what levels would you open up each menu?

Racinante, where would I find phantom steed?
unusualsuspect

08-14-07, 06:02 PM
The SRD, it is (possibly among other things) a 3rd level Wizard/Sorc spell.
Lycanthromancer

08-14-07, 06:14 PM
Jovknee - note that an increase in duration could easily be an augment, thereby making that whole argument null and void. Right? :)
unusualsuspect

08-14-07, 06:46 PM
Jovknee - note that an increase in duration could easily be an augment, thereby making that whole argument null and void. Right? :)

This seems like it's stepping mightily on the toes of the Constructor PrC's Utility Construct class ability.
Lycanthromancer

08-14-07, 06:51 PM
But constructors get it for free. If you did it right, you could do something rather nice with augments that allow you to play around with the power's duration and so on, and with negative augments, you could still get it for a decent duration at level 1. :)
Jovknee

08-14-07, 08:25 PM
Well unless I made the increased duration augmentation at something like 10+ PP for a duration of one min per level. I highly doubt my DM would allow such a thing with Astral Construct power. He's agreed with the WoTC and kept the Complete Psionics 1 construct limit as he things it is very powerful. I tried to argue this, but unfortunately after compareing even the most basic construct with a similar Summon Natures ally, I agreed with him.

Where is the Constructor PrC? I've seen the Astral Edept (sp?), and will probably take that PrC. He's let me make a feat that allows a second construct to be active but its maximum HD is one lower than my highest. So with that homemade feat and the PrC I should be good to go.
InkBlot

08-14-07, 09:06 PM
The Constructor (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b) prestige class can be found in The Mind's Eye (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/psi).
Thomar_of_Uointer

08-14-07, 09:31 PM
Problem with this is the 1 round per level duration isn't very long to ride a mount from town to town. You'd be out of power points before you get a few minutes away from the city gates.

It also doesn't always have to be rode upon, but could be used to carry loot or injured players.

Thomar, I originally had used the astral construct chart and removed some of the abilities. But my DM did not like the idea of me having a flying mount anytime soon. Originally I had the duration at 1 hour per level, and in no way could be used to harm a living being. In fact if you did use it as such it would dissapate and cause no damage. (I put this in to prevent anyone from using it to create another fighting machine). I also put in that the smallest of sizes was small. However the DM figured out I'd get a flying mount long before anyone else could fly and said no to this. However he did say he'd let me make several powers that would acomplish each mobility type, such as Astral mount 1 - land as a 1st lvl power. Astral mount 2 - water, as a 3rd level power, Astral mount 3 - earth as a 4th level power, and Astral mount 4 - air as a 5th level power.

My problem with this is that I feel this goes against the heart of psionics. Instead of augmenting one power, he wants 4 powers, which I feel can be done with one.

Thormar, at what levels would you open up each menu?

Racinante, where would I find phantom steed?

Around the same levels as the astral construct power, as I would also stat up six astral mount monsters (since 9 seems like overkill, but 3 is too few).
Jaid

08-14-07, 11:52 PM
I tried to argue this, but unfortunately after compareing even the most basic construct with a similar Summon Natures ally, I agreed with him.
compare better.

the porpoise, for example, is fast, has blindsight, and is 2 HD. the wolf is 2 HD, fast, and has improved trip basically. the octopus can hide like crazy and is 2 HD, the owl is also extremely stealthy, the eagle is a very fast flyer and has 3 attacks... a couple of them have the scent ability. the astral construct is just high AC and high HP. yippee. summon nature's ally is vastly superior in mobility and imo, in tactical options at the first level. summon monster has creatures with tremorsense, the ability to entangle enemies as if by a net, all kinds of poison, a critter with rage, a little bit of extra oomph in the water over nature's ally, and spell resistance and elemental resistance. along with a couple other tricks such as those found in summon nature's ally.

at the level 2 lists, you're looking at hippogryphs, area attacks (as a free action!) damage reduction, and a few other cool abilities between those 2 summoning spells (nature's ally, summon monster). astral construct gets a little bigger and a little tougher.

offensively, i would say those other two lists drastically outperform astral construct in a big way, and when we're talking about something that's only going to be around for 1-5 rounds (at the kind of levels you'll be using them), i don't care if it's tough enough to last 10 rounds, because it won't be around in that time. and in any event, summon spells start getting creatures that tough also (either by damage reduction or by the same methods as the astral construct)

seriously, astral construct is useful, don't get me wrong, but as usual magic does better, and as you get higher up in the summon lines, it gets even more like that.
Lycanthromancer

08-15-07, 11:46 AM
Yup. And that's why psionics is overpowered once again, Jaid. *Sigh*
Jovknee

08-16-07, 10:40 AM
Also don't forget that astral constructs are just that... constructs. And get all the goodies for being a construct. No critical hits, sneak attacks.... And with a single feat, boost construct, you essentially get double the menu options (except the 9th level isn't doubled but one extra).

However I would like to see these menu options expanded myself.
Lycanthromancer

08-16-07, 11:15 AM
How would you feel about a list of feats that expands that list? It's something I'll think on, for potential future publication (if someone else doesn't beat me to it first :) ).
Jovknee

08-16-07, 03:07 PM
How would you feel about a list of feats that expands that list? It's something I'll think on, for potential future publication (if someone else doesn't beat me to it first :) ).

That would actually be an interesting thing to see. Something along the lines of such.

Heavy Hitter - menu A = +2 damage, menu B - +4 damage and menu C - +6 damage.
Jaid

08-16-07, 03:11 PM
Also don't forget that astral constructs are just that... constructs. And get all the goodies for being a construct. No critical hits, sneak attacks....
yup. and outsiders get all sorts of goodies from being outsiders, and animals can benefit from a lot of druid buffs that make them good.

as far as feats to improve them, well... you don't want to know what druids can do with summoning feats. really, you're happier not even being aware of what they can do...
Jovknee

08-16-07, 03:15 PM
yup. and outsiders get all sorts of goodies from being outsiders, and animals can benefit from a lot of druid buffs that make them good.

as far as feats to improve them, well... you don't want to know what druids can do with summoning feats. really, you're happier not even being aware of what they can do...

Actually I would really like to know what they can do. This way I can show my DM why the nerf on the Astral Construct is uncalled for. In fact I've told my roomate that when I die (with me it is always when, not if. fate and I are not on good terms) I am going to play a Druid. But I am praying it doesn't come down to this.
Jaid

08-16-07, 03:52 PM
ok, the feat you are looking for is greenbound summoning. seriously, there's a charop thread, if you go to those boards and just do a "ctrl+f" for druid, you should find it... in fact, just to make it easier for you, here it is. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=733400)

now, keep in mind that if you are going to go C.o.D.zilla that your character is likely to become the favored enemy of Pun Pun. it's great for showing that other classes are broken. it's not good for showing that anything is balanced. and it's really not good for changing your DM's opinion on anything, generally speaking.

but if all you want to do is to show your DM that the druid is overpowered in ways that most other classes can't touch, then go ahead. just don't be surprised if it doesn't really accomplish anything you wanted it to.
CrimsonDeath

08-16-07, 03:55 PM
Consider a Druid from the Forgotten Realms with Spell Focus: Conjuration, Augment Summoning, Greenbound Summoning, and Rashemi Elemental Summoning. All their summons get at least +4 Str and +4 Con. Their summoned animals become plants with extra natural armor, even more Strength, even more Constitution, and improved or additional natural weapons. Their Earth elementals gain an Engulf attack, and their Air elementals gain Cone of Cold as a SLA.

Consider an Eberron druid with Ashbound, Spell Focus: Conjuration, and Augment Summoning. Their summons get +4 Strength, +4 Constitution, +3 Luck to attacks, and stick around twice as long. Plus all the standard Druid tricks, such as Animal Growth (great if you summon multiple creatures from a lower-level list).