Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GrandNagusEli 06-02-07, 03:29 PM	Well-met, I’m relatively new to the psionic rules and I am trying to help a player of mine create a psionic character. I’m helping one of my players create a character. His concept is a little vague; he wants to be a psionic character that can change shape. He is mostly interested in gain animal like traits or actually transforming into an animal. Obiviously the Egoist springs to mind, but I think he’d also be satisfied with a psychic warrior with powers like “claws of the beast” and “animal affinity.” The problem is that I’m not really familiar enough with these rules to know how best to advise him. Heck, I don’t even have any experience dealing with druids or wizards using polymorph to help me out. Thus I have many questions. The character is going to be tenth level and we’re leaning towards Elan as a race (human is our fallback). Alright here are some of the ideas I’ve come up with and the questions I’ve had. 10th level Egoist seems like a natural, using metamorphosis and metamorphic transfer (though the Elan’s CHA penalty gives me a moment’s passing pause here). Here are my problems/questions for this option: 1) As I mentioned above, I don’t have any real experience with powers like metamorphosis. I’m not worried about my player abusing metamorphosis and ruining my campaign. I’m worried that he won’t know what to do with the power. What kind of creatures should he turn into? It seems that I should help him choose a few preferred “combat” forms and some “utility” forms that he uses most often. Then we could stat his character out in those forms in advance and save time. What are some the problems I could run into with this power? 2) I’m a little confused on metamorphic transfer. Let’s say he turned into a dragon and used its breath weapon twice before the power ended. If, at a later point in the day, he transformed into a dragon again would he only get one use of the breath weapon or would it reset to three. My reading of the feat favors the latter scenario. 3) Are there any other feats or powers I should be looking at for this character? What kind of advancement/multiclass options should I be looking at? 4) (This is a big one.) What kind of gear would be best for this character. Wild armour seems like a no-brainer, but I don’t know beyond that. If his main tactic is changing shape with metamorphosis, then wouldn’t most standard gear be useless? Perhaps some dorjes and one use items to help him conserve PP for his shapechanging? Alright, option two is psychic warrior. I’m leaning towards this as it seems easier, but I still have some questions: 1) I’m thinking “claws of the beast” combined with “expansion” as him main attack, but is this really sustainable? Unless I’m mistaken (which I could be) you don’t get your iterative attacks with natural weapons. True, he only has two iterative attacks at 10th level and multi-attack (which I’m more than willing to let him take) would give him two attacks (I think), but what about higher levels. Is he going to lag behind not having multiple attacks. 2) What kind of feats would be best to amplify this tactic or, alternatively, add versatility? Psionic fist and psionic meditation seem like an obvious choice, but I’m not sure if being able to do one attack per round (at most) with an extra 2d6 is really worth two feats. Perhaps speed of thought combined with mobility to allow him to do some crowd control? Hmm… Up the Walls would help here as well. Perhaps stand still while using expanded. I generally don’t know. Alright, that’s all I can think to bring up at the moment. Anybody who can provide answers, suggestions, or links to more information earns my undying gratitude. Thank you in advance. Oh, btw, I have read the FAQ and the beginers guide to psionics found here on the board, though I may have missed information contained therein.
Millenia 06-02-07, 05:08 PM	10th level Egoist seems like a natural, using metamorphosis and metamorphic transfer (though the Elan’s CHA penalty gives me a moment’s passing pause here). Here are my problems/questions for this option: The charisma penalty might not be such a problem if your player focuses on using it for defensive/constant abilities instead of offensive abilities. 1) As I mentioned above, I don’t have any real experience with powers like metamorphosis. I’m not worried about my player abusing metamorphosis and ruining my campaign. I’m worried that he won’t know what to do with the power. What kind of creatures should he turn into? It seems that I should help him choose a few preferred “combat” forms and some “utility” forms that he uses most often. Then we could stat his character out in those forms in advance and save time. What are some the problems I could run into with this power? Well, I would recommend using Untapped Potential's system for shapechanging, as it seems to be potentially less abusive than just plain using Metamorphosis, as it limits how many forms the character can turn into, just what they can get, and requires a prestige class in order to focus on being a melee monster. ^^;a Though I dunno how willing you are to spend a few dollars just to get shapeshifting... >>a 2) I’m a little confused on metamorphic transfer. Let’s say he turned into a dragon and used its breath weapon twice before the power ended. If, at a later point in the day, he transformed into a dragon again would he only get one use of the breath weapon or would it reset to three. My reading of the feat favors the latter scenario. I would agree with your reading, in that the uses are three per metamorphosis, up to three metamorphoses per day. 3) Are there any other feats or powers I should be looking at for this character? What kind of advancement/multiclass options should I be looking at? For powers, I recommend stuff like Vigor and Inertial Armor. For advancement, I don't really have anything to add beyond "use the Anyform Savant if you're using Untapped Potential". ^_^;; 4) (This is a big one.) What kind of gear would be best for this character. Wild armour seems like a no-brainer, but I don’t know beyond that. If his main tactic is changing shape with metamorphosis, then wouldn’t most standard gear be useless? Perhaps some dorjes and one use items to help him conserve PP for his shapechanging? Equipment may or may not be useless, depending on which form the egoist takes. For instance, transforming into a giant would let the egoist use all of his magic items, but transforming into a dog wouldn't. Armor itself is not that necessary unless you want stuff like Fortification, as the Inertial Armor power is the best AC-buffing power in the game in my opinion. Other powers (Defensive Precognition, Thicken Skin) are also great for bumping AC up. As for dorjes, sure, they'll be great as long as you only use them for defensive/supportive powers instead of offense. Alright, option two is psychic warrior. I’m leaning towards this as it seems easier, but I still have some questions: 1) I’m thinking “claws of the beast” combined with “expansion” as him main attack, but is this really sustainable? Unless I’m mistaken (which I could be) you don’t get your iterative attacks with natural weapons. True, he only has two iterative attacks at 10th level and multi-attack (which I’m more than willing to let him take) would give him two attacks (I think), but what about higher levels. Is he going to lag behind not having multiple attacks. Though the PsiWar will lag behind in total attacks, do note that the Claws of the Beast power can be augmented to deal more damage, so doing 2d6+str per attack isn't THAT bad at level 10. Especially with Expansion, since that could increase the damage to 3d6 at large size, and up again to 4d6 at huge size. Also note the increase to reach, and you'll be having quite a fun time with attacks of opportunity. 2) What kind of feats would be best to amplify this tactic or, alternatively, add versatility? Psionic fist and psionic meditation seem like an obvious choice, but I’m not sure if being able to do one attack per round (at most) with an extra 2d6 is really worth two feats. Perhaps speed of thought combined with mobility to allow him to do some crowd control? Hmm… Up the Walls would help here as well. Perhaps stand still while using expanded. I generally don’t know. Those are certainly good feats to add versatility to a PsiWar. Also note that the PsiWar can grab Expanded Knowledge to add in some psion powers to its repertoire. It also wouldn't hurt to look at the PHB's list of feats. Improved Initative is always good, and Weapon Focus (Claws) isn't bad either. I hope my advice helps you.
GrandNagusEli 06-02-07, 05:26 PM	Well, I would recommend using Untapped Potential's system for shapechanging, as it seems to be potentially less abusive than just plain using Metamorphosis, as it limits how many forms the character can turn into, just what they can get, and requires a prestige class in order to focus on being a melee monster. ^^;a Though I dunno how willing you are to spend a few dollars just to get shapeshifting... >>a First and foremost, thanks for the reply. I'm not to worried about limiting my player. I play with a group of people who are both friends and adults and don't tend to abuse the system in ways that detract from fun. We run a fairly optimized/high-powered campaign, so if he wants to beome a melee monster that's fine with me. What really concerns me about metamorphasis is its potential to slow down the game and cause mass confusion. I don't want to have to consult the rulebook every time a combat starts. I don't want to have to spend twenty minutes figuring out what the stat changes are and what powers carry over and what equipment carries over everytime my player uses metamorphasis. That's why I'm leaning towards psywar. Just seems easier all around.
Lalkin 06-02-07, 05:46 PM	Just require the player to have up to date statblocks for all forms he will use via metamorphasis ready before the game.
hovnarr 06-02-07, 07:46 PM	What kind of creatures should he turn into? It seems that I should help him choose a few preferred “combat” forms and some “utility” forms that he uses most often. At level 10, for a non-outsider psion using SRD/core only, these are what I would have on my "top ten list", previously statted out for easy game access: Melee Combat Forms (in order of typical effectiveness) 1) Roper: 6 touch attacks that deal 2d6 strength damage each with 50' threat range, very good natural armor. 2) Pyro/cryohydro: (Su) Jet (fire or cold) for lots of damage, many attacks and AoOs. 3) Behir: Grappler - constrict, improved grab, rake and swallow whole. Ranged/Aerial Combat/Defensive Forms *Pixie: (Su) greater invisibility, good dex bonus. *Will-o'-Wisp: Good dex and deflection. Multipurpose Forms *Aboleth: (Su) Enslave for dominate person, decent underwater combat form. *Cloaker: My personal favorite. Moan (Ex) has the amazing Stupor (infinite (Ex) Hold Monster) and many other nifty things. Shadow Shift (Su) has lots of utility, such as Silent Image. Even if you could only metamorph to a cloaker, I'd still take the power... Additional Metamorphic Transfer Toolbox *Choker: (Su) Quickness. *Destrachan: (Su) Destructive Harmonics. *Doppleganger: (Su) Detect Thoughts.
Yadot 06-02-07, 09:52 PM	If your player decides to go with Egoist, then this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070314a) variant may be right up his alley.
Lycanthromancer 06-03-07, 11:06 PM	I'd also suggest beholder as a form, especially if you have Metamorphic Transfer. Of course, if his race is warforged, he could transform into constructs (including animated objects - hint-hint). This is nice for a high-undead game. Also, check my version of metamorphosis. It's a lot less hassle, I think. And if he wanted to play from level 1, he could. My revamp is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=838457).
hovnarr 06-04-07, 02:44 AM	Six pages of text to describe one power is less hassle? I'd say it's more hassle, but it might be more balanced :D A simple nerf I enforce myself as a DM and recommend to other DMs if I play morph effects in their games is the following: You are limited in what forms you can assume. To assume a form, you must have mastered it. You can master any number of forms as long as their HD total do not exceed your ML. You can also assume the form of creatures that you can touch or observe directly at the time of manifestation. At any time when you select a new known power (for instance, on level up or when using psychic reformation), you can change which forms you have mastered. This limits the versatility of the morph effects, which is really the problem with them. You can either choose to master a powerful combat form like roper or hydra, or a few lesser utility forms like cloaker and pixie - but not all of them at the same time. Also greatly speeds up game play and makes player response more predictable.
Lycanthromancer 06-04-07, 03:57 PM	That's misleading, actually. The "six pages" are mostly for specific abilities. How many pages would you have to read to get all of the abilities for a psion using metamorphosis? A lot more than six, I should think, so it's pretty much far less reading material than you otherwise have.
hovnarr 06-04-07, 06:38 PM	Yeah, I concede that as a new player, you would have to read up on monster a lot to make the most of morph effects. But there are already compilations done to facilitate the process. One could simply summarize that the WotC d20-system is inperfect in certain aspects, but mastering these aspects as written is easier than rewriting comprehensive rules mechanics, so subpar wins anyway, by virtue of being the standard. It's a lot like Microsoft in that respect.
GrandNagusEli 06-06-07, 08:08 PM	Well-met, Thanks for all the suggestions. I’ve been reading and experimenting and talking to my player. We’ve decided straight egoist isn’t worth the hassle. I’ve come up with the bare bones of a psywar that fulfills his desire to use psychometablism powers, serves a function in the group, and looks fun to play. Let me share what I have so far and you can tell me what you think and correct any mistakes I might have made. Race: Elan Class/Level: Psychic Warrior 10 STR—18 DEX – 16 (originally 15, +1 from level 4) CON – 15 INT – 14 WIS – 18 (originally 17. +1 from level 8) CHA – 9 Power Points: 49 (27 from Psywar lvl 10, 20 from 18 Wis, and 2 from elan) Powers: 1st: Claws of the Beats (main form of attack, manifests it as soon as the action starts augments for 7 points to 2d6 damage) Expansion (manifests in most combats, if not all. Gives claws an extra d6 damage and reach) Inertial Armor (manifests before the actions starts, augmented all the way for a +8 bonus) 2nd: Animal Affinity (multi-purpose buff, good for so many occasions) Hustle (allows greater mobility, can also be used to manifest powers that are move actions) Body Equilibrium (more mobility, also allows him to overcome environmental obsticles) 3rd: Dimensional Slide (have I given him too much mobility? We’re aiming for crowd control as his combat role, so I’ve tried to give him plenty of options for reaching threats) Empathic Transfer Hostile (healing and damage rolled into one, seemed obvious) Mental Barrier (emergency protection when he runs into big hitters) 4th: Energy Adaptation (also seems like an obvious protective option) Feats 1st: Dodge (added AC and a prerequisite for…) Bonus: Mobility (so that he can move around the battlefield with less fear of AoOs) Bonus: Power Attack (both his claws use his highest BAB (if I’m reading the rules correctly) so it seemed natural and it’s a prerequisite for…) 3rd: Cleave (because he’ll be low on attacks) Bonus: Combat Reflexes (to make better use of the reach gained from Expansion) 6th: Weapon Focus: Claws (obviously) Bonus: Speed of Thought (for more mobility and he you can take psionic charge next level which combines with psionic lion’s charge from the PsiCrown) 9th: Align Attack (to allow him to overcome DR) Equipment: Psicrown of the Beast (because it’s loaded with juicy powers to buff his natural attacks and it draws from its own PP reserve) Amulet of Might Fists +1 (so that his natural attacks always overcome DR/magic) This leaves 9,00 lever over that I haven’t spent yet. Are there any changes anyone would make? Any idea on how best to spend his remaining gold? I was thinking a dorje of Body Adjustment. Thanks in advance.
hovnarr 06-07-07, 03:46 AM	Most of it looks good - PsyWars can be built in a number of ways and be pretty effective. I'd probably shy away from dodge/mobility for something more useful. Claws have just as long duration as Inertial Armor, so have it "always on". Definetely take Extend Power to make your 1 h/lvl buffs last all day for only 2 more pp. As for the in combat buffs, expansion is very good but also consider Claws of the Vampire. Take Inertial Barrier instead of Energy Adaptation, and take Specified Energy Adaptation instead of Body Equilibrium. Inertial Barrier cuts down on all melee damage, and the damage that gets through can be quickly healed back using his vampiric claws! Level 3 powers look very solid, but HET has been updated (this means nerfed) in Complete Psionics. My only other comment would be to consider expend focus feats and psionic meditation if you want to make more use of Hustle. Psionic Fist -> Unavoidable Strike + Power Attack is very powerful. You hit with your claw as a touch attack and get to add lots of damage.
Racinante 06-07-07, 10:40 AM	Here are my problems/questions for this option: 2) I’m a little confused on metamorphic transfer. Let’s say he turned into a dragon and used its breath weapon twice before the power ended. If, at a later point in the day, he transformed into a dragon again would he only get one use of the breath weapon or would it reset to three. My reading of the feat favors the latter scenario. According to the errata, on the second use of metamorphosis, he would get one use of the breath weapon and no further benefit from MT for that day.
Racinante 06-07-07, 10:43 AM	Well, I would recommend using Untapped Potential's system for shapechanging, as it seems to be potentially less abusive than just plain using Metamorphosis, as it limits how many forms the character can turn into, just what they can get, and requires a prestige class in order to focus on being a melee monster. I, however, would not recommend it. Tempest, Bacris, and team have put together a strong product, but their shapechanging replacement adds complexity and has gaps from an implementation standpoint.
GrandNagusEli 06-07-07, 09:14 PM	Most of it looks good - PsyWars can be built in a number of ways and be pretty effective. I'd probably shy away from dodge/mobility for something more useful. Claws have just as long duration as Inertial Armor, so have it "always on". Definetely take Extend Power to make your 1 h/lvl buffs last all day for only 2 more pp. Yeah, I meant for the claws to be always on. Extend power is a good recomendation, but I'd have to give him overchannel for him to extend his claws and still get the max damage out of it. It is my recomendation for his next feat. Why not dodge/mobility? We're expecting him to be moving about the battlefield alot, which means he's going to be open to many AoOs. Of course, he's got enough movement powers to prevent this, so maybe you're right. As for the in combat buffs, expansion is very good but also consider Claws of the Vampire. Take Inertial Barrier instead of Energy Adaptation, and take Specified Energy Adaptation instead of Body Equilibrium. Inertial Barrier cuts down on all melee damage, and the damage that gets through can be quickly healed back using his vampiric claws! I like expansion for this character better than claws of the vampire. I like the reach it gives him in addition to the bonus damage. I can see your point on Inertial Barrier / Energy Adaptation. I think I will change that. Thanks. Level 3 powers look very solid, but HET has been updated (this means nerfed) in Complete Psionics. My only other comment would be to consider expend focus feats and psionic meditation if you want to make more use of Hustle. Psionic Fist -> Unavoidable Strike + Power Attack is very powerful. You hit with your claw as a touch attack and get to add lots of damage. I've heard about HET being nerfed, but I don't own CPsi and don't intend to buy it. So A) I don't know how its been nerfed and B) don't really care. The power looks solid as it is and I think I'll let him use it as it is. I don't understand how you can get Psionic fist and unavoidable strike on the same attack. I didn't think you could expend your focus for psionic fist, then manifest hustle, take a move action to re-focus, then expend your focus for unavoidable stike. I would have thought you'd have lost your psionic fist if you didn't attack immediatly. Do I need to read the rules more carefully? Thanks for all the advice. Racinate, thanks for your imput too.
hovnarr 06-08-07, 03:32 AM	I don't understand how you can get Psionic fist and unavoidable strike on the same attack. I didn't think you could expend your focus for psionic fist, then manifest hustle, take a move action to re-focus, then expend your focus for unavoidable stike. I would have thought you'd have lost your psionic fist if you didn't attack immediatly. Do I need to read the rules more carefully? Not sure about that really, but that's not what I meant. I just listed Psionic Fist because it's a prereq to Unavoidable Strike. The "combo" as it were is to use Power Attack with any of the psionic feats that let you do a touch attack. Works even better with two handed weapons though. And sure, if you go with unnerfed HET as a healing strategy you can shy away from claws of the vampire. I'd still recommend dropping dodge+mobility in favor of more psionic feats and Psionic Body in that case. Remember, with HET you want to take damage (in a controlled fashion) so you can dish it out to your enemies.