No love for the Erudite? [Archive] - Wizards Community

No love for the Erudite? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
OzyBurrfoot
03-16-08, 07:09 PM I've noticed that the Erudite has gotten little to no attention on the boards, which disappoints me, because it is one of my favorite classes, thematically-wise. I really like the idea of a psionic character that is driven to learn new powers like a wizard might be.

On a more crunchy note, would a feat to grant an additional Unique Power per Day be overbalanced? I suspect it might, but wanted some outside opinion.
CrimsonDeath
03-16-08, 08:12 PM There's been an Erudite thread almost weekly for the past couple of months.
OzyBurrfoot
03-16-08, 09:49 PM Really? Because I looked back over the forum a ways back and found only a few threads that were about the Erudite.
heavenisme
03-16-08, 10:42 PM There is no love for the erudite.

I personally would like some more done on it as well as a revision done on the classes unique powers.

I think it's an awesome class, but it is hated on due to it's freedom of power selection, as well as disputes about how many unique powers a day it gets.

The minds eye convert spell to power gave the erudite arcane spells, which got the mosts gasps from the community.

DM's hate on the erudite quite often, erudite is often on the banned list for many campaigns I see because they can have an unlimited amount of powers.

To sum up my words I think it's the coolest psionic/arcane class because it has the great flexibility, it would be nice if it wasn't hated on so much. I do feel it needs clarification or revision, to spells or powers per day similar to a wizard.
OzyBurrfoot
03-16-08, 10:46 PM Nice to see I'm not alone.

Now what about my feat idea?

Extra Unique Power
Benefit: Your limit on unique powers per day is increased by 1.
CrimsonDeath
03-17-08, 03:17 AM Really? Because I looked back over the forum a ways back and found only a few threads that were about the Erudite.

Really? I did a Search of the Psionics board for threads with Erudite in the title, and got several pages of hits. (Although I did slightly exaggerate the frequency; it lookes like there's only about one thread a month.)
hogarth
03-17-08, 06:43 AM I've noticed that the Erudite has gotten little to no attention on the boards, which disappoints me, because it is one of my favorite classes, thematically-wise. I really like the idea of a psionic character that is driven to learn new powers like a wizard might be.
If the number of unique powers per day were increased by 2, or even 1, I'd be all over that class. But 1 power at level 1 and 2 powers at level 3 is not enough for me.
forrestfire15
03-17-08, 02:10 PM In dragon #319 (where the 3.5 erudite was originally published) there is a feat like that.

It goes like this

Extra Unique Power per day

requirements: Unique power per day class ability
Benifit: one extra unique power per day at any level you can manifest. cannot be changed.
Special: this feat can be taken more than once.

An erudite can select6 this feat as one of his bonus feats
OzyBurrfoot
03-17-08, 02:42 PM But that feat was designed with the Dragon version of the Erudite in mind, not the CPsi version.
Fabius Maximus
03-17-08, 06:43 PM But that feat was designed with the Dragon version of the Erudite in mind, not the CPsi version.
I consider the CPsi version as non-existent.
Jaid
03-17-08, 07:42 PM I consider the CPsi version as non-existent.

ah. well then. in that case, the feat in dragon magazine is pretty near worthless, because you get so many unique powers per day anyways.
CrimsonDeath
03-17-08, 07:43 PM I consider the CPsi version as non-existent.

This applies to so much stuff...
Legdiwena
03-17-08, 08:04 PM How is the Dragon version different?
InkBlot
03-17-08, 08:22 PM The Dragon version got about as many unique powers per level per day as a Wizard has spell slots. The Dragon Erudite had more unique powers per day than a Psion knows ever.
Lycanthromancer
03-17-08, 08:22 PM Many more unique powers per day.

And that's mostly it.
CrimsonDeath
03-17-08, 08:26 PM Not any better at level 1 or 2, though.
AntiDjinn
03-18-08, 12:28 AM The erudite will receive no lovin because of its mechanics. Not the mechanics of the class, but the mechanics by which it was published. The class is not in the SRD and not covered by the OGL. This makes even mentioning the class verboten to 3rd party developers. So unless this changes, any support and dev will have to come from WotC, and we all know how likely it is they will release any additional material for Psi 3.5. Homebrew feats, alternate class variants, and character build advice on this board is about the best you can hope for, and is as close to official support as you are going to get.
OzyBurrfoot
03-18-08, 06:23 AM Homebrew feats, alternate class variants, and character build advice on this board is about the best you can hope for, and is as close to official support as you are going to get.

And thats exactly the kind of attention I want. Heck, a CO handbook for the class doesn't even exist, as far as I can tell. Now, I know that a lot about playing an Erudite is similar to playing a Psion, but there is definitely enough differences to warrant its own attention. I'd write up one myself if I felt confident enough in my own CO skills.
TazendrasGhost
03-18-08, 07:43 AM I'm about to start playing an Erudite. I am using the Psicrystal Imprinter prestige class from Untapped Potential. Its third party, but very nice and fills in a bit of the Erudite's weaknesses in terms of unique powers per day at the cost of one manifester level at the first level of the prestige class.

Without that class, I would play an Erudite kind of like an Artificer and craft a heck of a lot of items. Unlike the Artificer, I'd save most of my unique Erudite powers/day slots for Combat, while using Dorjes and power stones for utility work. As I went up in level, I'd have more slots for utility. At mid levels, the Master Dorje Feat makes cheap Dorjes a good bit more powerful. At high levels, I'd start making Psicrowns.
OzyBurrfoot
03-18-08, 04:14 PM Good advice.

Btw, who puts out that Untapped Potential book? I seem to remember hearing about it before.
Lycanthromancer
03-18-08, 04:15 PM www.dreamscarredpress.com
Zappy
03-18-08, 04:50 PM Personnaly I don't see myself playing one anytime soon. I am the only person in my group who plays Psionics in a Psionic lite world. Granted my DM is getting into it and let my last character found an academy. Still it just seems like the class is week with the number of powers know and only so many unique powers per day.
I was kinda of wondering about that. It seems kind of wasteful when you can be a regular Pison and get free powers every level. Am I missing something basic to the class or am I right that it's a bad idea in a Psionic-lite world?
Jaid
03-19-08, 07:12 PM Personnaly I don't see myself playing one anytime soon. I am the only person in my group who plays Psionics in a Psionic lite world. Granted my DM is getting into it and let my last character found an academy. Still it just seems like the class is week with the number of powers know and only so many unique powers per day.
I was kinda of wondering about that. It seems kind of wasteful when you can be a regular Pison and get free powers every level. Am I missing something basic to the class or am I right that it's a bad idea in a Psionic-lite world?

unless your GM is insane and lets you use a thought bottle as written, you wouldn't want to be an erudite in such a campaign.

of course, if you *can* use a thought bottle as written, i suppose you should still be a psion, provided you're ever going to be able to know both psychic chirurgery and psychic reformation.
awaken_D_M_golem
03-21-08, 03:42 PM Thought Bottle + Erudite + Psychic Reformation = Know all powers slowly, and expensively.

Good.
1. Learn power as one of the 2 per level.
2. Make a power stone of it.
3. PsyRef the power into something else.
4. Learn power as the XP burn version.
5. Repeat with PsyRef power(s).
Result: learn all psion/wilder powers

Better.
1. Take the Mantled variant.
2. Take a Don/Tap (i'm not recalling which - it's the list one) Mantle of whatever list.
3. Learn power as the XP burn version.
4. PsyRef the power, and the "list" Mantle feat, into others.
5. repeat
Result: learn all powers, via whatever the DM will Substitute Powers

Still can't use them all.
Ardent with ML boosts, as Cohort, can Psicraft check all powers the Erudite knows.
Still can't use them all in combat.
11/40-something'iths an Archivist.

Fun.
Guroth the Forsaken
03-22-08, 12:51 PM Perhaps it's a foreshdowing of experiental mechanics (re: 4th ed?), much like the ToB or ToM.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
OzyBurrfoot 03-16-08, 07:09 PM	I've noticed that the Erudite has gotten little to no attention on the boards, which disappoints me, because it is one of my favorite classes, thematically-wise. I really like the idea of a psionic character that is driven to learn new powers like a wizard might be. On a more crunchy note, would a feat to grant an additional Unique Power per Day be overbalanced? I suspect it might, but wanted some outside opinion.
CrimsonDeath 03-16-08, 08:12 PM	There's been an Erudite thread almost weekly for the past couple of months.
OzyBurrfoot 03-16-08, 09:49 PM	Really? Because I looked back over the forum a ways back and found only a few threads that were about the Erudite.
heavenisme 03-16-08, 10:42 PM	There is no love for the erudite. I personally would like some more done on it as well as a revision done on the classes unique powers. I think it's an awesome class, but it is hated on due to it's freedom of power selection, as well as disputes about how many unique powers a day it gets. The minds eye convert spell to power gave the erudite arcane spells, which got the mosts gasps from the community. DM's hate on the erudite quite often, erudite is often on the banned list for many campaigns I see because they can have an unlimited amount of powers. To sum up my words I think it's the coolest psionic/arcane class because it has the great flexibility, it would be nice if it wasn't hated on so much. I do feel it needs clarification or revision, to spells or powers per day similar to a wizard.
OzyBurrfoot 03-16-08, 10:46 PM	Nice to see I'm not alone. Now what about my feat idea? Extra Unique Power Benefit: Your limit on unique powers per day is increased by 1.
CrimsonDeath 03-17-08, 03:17 AM	Really? Because I looked back over the forum a ways back and found only a few threads that were about the Erudite. Really? I did a Search of the Psionics board for threads with Erudite in the title, and got several pages of hits. (Although I did slightly exaggerate the frequency; it lookes like there's only about one thread a month.)
hogarth 03-17-08, 06:43 AM	I've noticed that the Erudite has gotten little to no attention on the boards, which disappoints me, because it is one of my favorite classes, thematically-wise. I really like the idea of a psionic character that is driven to learn new powers like a wizard might be. If the number of unique powers per day were increased by 2, or even 1, I'd be all over that class. But 1 power at level 1 and 2 powers at level 3 is not enough for me.
forrestfire15 03-17-08, 02:10 PM	In dragon #319 (where the 3.5 erudite was originally published) there is a feat like that. It goes like this Extra Unique Power per day requirements: Unique power per day class ability Benifit: one extra unique power per day at any level you can manifest. cannot be changed. Special: this feat can be taken more than once. An erudite can select6 this feat as one of his bonus feats
OzyBurrfoot 03-17-08, 02:42 PM	But that feat was designed with the Dragon version of the Erudite in mind, not the CPsi version.
Fabius Maximus 03-17-08, 06:43 PM	But that feat was designed with the Dragon version of the Erudite in mind, not the CPsi version. I consider the CPsi version as non-existent.
Jaid 03-17-08, 07:42 PM	I consider the CPsi version as non-existent. ah. well then. in that case, the feat in dragon magazine is pretty near worthless, because you get so many unique powers per day anyways.
CrimsonDeath 03-17-08, 07:43 PM	I consider the CPsi version as non-existent. This applies to so much stuff...
Legdiwena 03-17-08, 08:04 PM	How is the Dragon version different?
InkBlot 03-17-08, 08:22 PM	The Dragon version got about as many unique powers per level per day as a Wizard has spell slots. The Dragon Erudite had more unique powers per day than a Psion knows ever.
Lycanthromancer 03-17-08, 08:22 PM	Many more unique powers per day. And that's mostly it.
CrimsonDeath 03-17-08, 08:26 PM	Not any better at level 1 or 2, though.
AntiDjinn 03-18-08, 12:28 AM	The erudite will receive no lovin because of its mechanics. Not the mechanics of the class, but the mechanics by which it was published. The class is not in the SRD and not covered by the OGL. This makes even mentioning the class verboten to 3rd party developers. So unless this changes, any support and dev will have to come from WotC, and we all know how likely it is they will release any additional material for Psi 3.5. Homebrew feats, alternate class variants, and character build advice on this board is about the best you can hope for, and is as close to official support as you are going to get.
OzyBurrfoot 03-18-08, 06:23 AM	Homebrew feats, alternate class variants, and character build advice on this board is about the best you can hope for, and is as close to official support as you are going to get. And thats exactly the kind of attention I want. Heck, a CO handbook for the class doesn't even exist, as far as I can tell. Now, I know that a lot about playing an Erudite is similar to playing a Psion, but there is definitely enough differences to warrant its own attention. I'd write up one myself if I felt confident enough in my own CO skills.
TazendrasGhost 03-18-08, 07:43 AM	I'm about to start playing an Erudite. I am using the Psicrystal Imprinter prestige class from Untapped Potential. Its third party, but very nice and fills in a bit of the Erudite's weaknesses in terms of unique powers per day at the cost of one manifester level at the first level of the prestige class. Without that class, I would play an Erudite kind of like an Artificer and craft a heck of a lot of items. Unlike the Artificer, I'd save most of my unique Erudite powers/day slots for Combat, while using Dorjes and power stones for utility work. As I went up in level, I'd have more slots for utility. At mid levels, the Master Dorje Feat makes cheap Dorjes a good bit more powerful. At high levels, I'd start making Psicrowns.
OzyBurrfoot 03-18-08, 04:14 PM	Good advice. Btw, who puts out that Untapped Potential book? I seem to remember hearing about it before.
Lycanthromancer 03-18-08, 04:15 PM	www.dreamscarredpress.com
Zappy 03-18-08, 04:50 PM	Personnaly I don't see myself playing one anytime soon. I am the only person in my group who plays Psionics in a Psionic lite world. Granted my DM is getting into it and let my last character found an academy. Still it just seems like the class is week with the number of powers know and only so many unique powers per day. I was kinda of wondering about that. It seems kind of wasteful when you can be a regular Pison and get free powers every level. Am I missing something basic to the class or am I right that it's a bad idea in a Psionic-lite world?
Jaid 03-19-08, 07:12 PM	Personnaly I don't see myself playing one anytime soon. I am the only person in my group who plays Psionics in a Psionic lite world. Granted my DM is getting into it and let my last character found an academy. Still it just seems like the class is week with the number of powers know and only so many unique powers per day. I was kinda of wondering about that. It seems kind of wasteful when you can be a regular Pison and get free powers every level. Am I missing something basic to the class or am I right that it's a bad idea in a Psionic-lite world? unless your GM is insane and lets you use a thought bottle as written, you wouldn't want to be an erudite in such a campaign. of course, if you can use a thought bottle as written, i suppose you should still be a psion, provided you're ever going to be able to know both psychic chirurgery and psychic reformation.
awaken_D_M_golem 03-21-08, 03:42 PM	Thought Bottle + Erudite + Psychic Reformation = Know all powers slowly, and expensively. Good. 1. Learn power as one of the 2 per level. 2. Make a power stone of it. 3. PsyRef the power into something else. 4. Learn power as the XP burn version. 5. Repeat with PsyRef power(s). Result: learn all psion/wilder powers Better. 1. Take the Mantled variant. 2. Take a Don/Tap (i'm not recalling which - it's the list one) Mantle of whatever list. 3. Learn power as the XP burn version. 4. PsyRef the power, and the "list" Mantle feat, into others. 5. repeat Result: learn all powers, via whatever the DM will Substitute Powers Still can't use them all. Ardent with ML boosts, as Cohort, can Psicraft check all powers the Erudite knows. Still can't use them all in combat. 11/40-something'iths an Archivist. Fun.
Guroth the Forsaken 03-22-08, 12:51 PM	Perhaps it's a foreshdowing of experiental mechanics (re: 4th ed?), much like the ToB or ToM.