Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DM_Dracophile 06-28-07, 09:02 AM	I've been dabbling with a Warmage-style 'Force Mage' core class variant for a good while, and ran across an idea that I wanted to get some opinions on. I was considering adding a 'Force Construct' spell at levels 1 through 9, based totally on the psionic Astral Construct power, including the menus...but prolly not the 'only one at a time' new rule :P Can you think of any balance issues, 'fluff' issues, or the like?
vahju 06-28-07, 10:54 AM	Most of the spells for the core Warmage are damaging (area affect or direct). To me it does not fit the Warmage schtick. Creating creature made of force would that give them the ability to bypass DR as force spells. Seems a bit powerful especially if you get this at level one. Can't break down a door or weapon just use your force creature to bypass the DR. I like the force mage concept just not the force astral construct concept.
SlanderPanic 06-28-07, 11:05 AM	Hijack one of the exotic effects that make psionics unique and flavorful to add yet more power to an already-overpowered arcane subclass? Sure, why not? That's a great idea. You should give them glossolalia and mental pinnacle as class spells, while you're at it, just to really stick it to all the poor psions this class will bulldoze.
Rageheart 06-28-07, 11:15 AM	Wouldn't a "force" construct be effective against incorperal and ethereal creatures. sure beats summons of a similar level.
munin 06-28-07, 12:50 PM	Creating creature made of force would that give them the ability to bypass DR as force spells...Can't break down a door or weapon just use your force creature to bypass the DR. Force spells bypass DR because they are spells, not because they are force. Force damage has no special ability to bypass DR (or hardness, which is what doors and weapons have). This isn't explicitly mentioned in the rules (except in that force is not listed as an exception), but the FAQ explicitly mentions that hardness applies to force, and that force does normal damage to creatures and objects (normal meaning you subtract hardness or DR). 5th-level+ astral constructs' natural weapons are "magic" for the purposes of overcoming DR (because 5th-level+ ACs have DR/magic). Force does not necessarily grant an ability to withstand damage either -- a wall of force is immune to damage, but an interposing hand takes damage normally. I'd stick with the astral construct's DR. Force creatures would be able to do full damage to incorporeal and ethereal creatures. They might also be invisible. That combination is probably worth at least a spell level increase (2nd-level spell summons a 1st-level force construct, etc.). Personally, I'd simply say that the force creature is not invisible (for some excellent reason), in which case a 1st-level force construct is simply a strong 1st-level summoning spell, but not overpowered (astral constructs can dominate mid-level games when they can be overchanneled or wild surged, but that shouldn't be a problem for force constructs even with Augment Summoning). disintegrate would have the same effect on a force creature as on any other creature -- only force objects are destroyed outright by disintegrate. Force creatures would also be blocked by walls and other obstacles on the ethereal plane (fortunately, the ethereal plane is very sparsely occupied by matter).
DM_Dracophile 06-28-07, 08:15 PM	Thank you munin. The fully-explained opinion is worth a dozen sarcastic replies. You've brought up some excellent points for consideration. Thanks again
Tiarn 06-29-07, 12:03 AM	For information on why this doesn't fit flavor-wise, do a little research on the idea of a "tulpa," It's a being created purely by thought and meditation. Pure psionic flavor. I've never considered a warmage-type class to do anything by thought and meditation. They seem more the scream-and-throw-fire types.
DM_Dracophile 06-29-07, 12:14 AM	I think I also skewed the results of my question by using the phrase 'Warmage-style'. I didn't mean that the class I was building had anything in common with the Warmage, except for the mechanics and general stat end of things. A spontaneous caster with a focused spell list, and a very streamlined list of bonus feats, might have been a better way of putting it. To clarify, the class I'm imagining has naught to do with the fluff of the Warmage. If anything, it'd have more in common (again, Fluff-wise) with some of the more scientific or contemplative classes, as this is someone who manages to wrap their head around one of the least-understood aspects of the magical universe. But, I was really just looking for insight into the idea of using the Astral Construct mechanics to simulate 'force creations' as non-sentient, Green Lantern-style 'summons'. Das all
Tiarn 06-29-07, 12:18 AM	...A spontaneous caster with a focused spell list, and a very streamlined list of bonus feats, might have been a better way of putting it.... Why not just play a psion or wilder? Aside from the bold word, everything you said above fits either of them. (Well, not so much the bonus feat and wilder, but they get other stuff)
DM_Dracophile 06-29-07, 07:24 PM	Cuz a Psion or Wilder doesn't have Force Spells lol Seriously, I think I got my answer ;-) Thanks guys
turalisj 06-29-07, 08:17 PM	A sonic ray is just as effective as a ray that deals magic missile when dealing with objects.