Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nephallim 06-20-07, 01:34 PM	I understand there's a lot of negative sentiment concerning Complete Psionic. I'm wondering what different people use from it? What's to broke to use, what errata makes sense, what doesn't? I've already decided not to use the Astral Construct errata, and I'm considering banning Synchronicity.
Ralp 06-20-07, 02:29 PM	The Ardent and Lurk are cool. There are some ok new powers too, because hey, how often do you get new powers?
RealSorceror 06-20-07, 02:40 PM	I've played all the new Soul Knife prcs and used several of the Mind Blade feats. I'm also currently playing a Sybillac Guardian (sp?) aka Psionic Archon. And I've just started playing a Lurk. All in all I've got my money's worth. Sure, theres stuff in there I'm never gonna use, but thats true of any book.
Millenia 06-20-07, 03:55 PM	I'm also currently playing a Sybillac Guardian (sp?) aka Psionic Archon. How's the Sybillic Guardian in terms of power, LA, and all that jazz?
DrowBattlemind 06-20-07, 04:15 PM	I've played all the new Soul Knife prcs and used several of the Mind Blade feats. All in all I've got my money's worth. Sure, theres stuff in there I'm never gonna use, but thats true of any book. Yeah, but it'd would've been better if they had included the feat from D20 Modern: Dark*Matter (I think it was called enhanced mind-blade, or something like that, jumped your mind blade damage up 1 die type everytime the feat was taken, 1D6 to 1D8, 1D8 to 2D6, etc,). Besides that, other than the Lurk class, I didn't have much use for it, except for new powers. Unless your game world lacks clerics and druids, I saw no real use for the Ardent or Divine Mind. (Mantles? Mantles? We don't need no steenking mantles!)
RealSorceror 06-20-07, 04:16 PM	How's the Sybillic Guardian in terms of power, LA, and all that jazz? I used an LA of 6. It plays like a Psychic Warrior, and comes packaged with a greatsword and Greater Psionic Weapon, plus the abiltiy to get back your psi focus as a move action. Lots of damage, but not overly powerful for the ECL. Unfortunately, I only got to go into comabt very briefly, as I stupidly attacked two of the Four Horsemen of the Apocolypse.....by myself :blush:
lint trap 06-20-07, 04:20 PM	What's that power that makes your enemy's head explode? I love that one.
RealSorceror 06-20-07, 04:24 PM	Yeah, but it'd would've been better if they had included the feat from D20 Modern: Dark*Matter (I think it was called enhanced mind-blade, or something like that, jumped your mind blade damage up 1 die type everytime the feat was taken, 1D6 to 1D8, 1D8 to 2D6, etc,). Wait, they made Soul Knife a d20 Modern class? OMG, thats awsome! Uh, I mean, thats mildly nice to hear. :shifty: Besides that, other than the Lurk class, I didn't have much use for it, except for new powers. Unless your game world lacks clerics and druids, I saw no real use for the Ardent or Divine Mind. (Mantles? Mantles? We don't need no steenking mantles!) I've toyed with the idea of playing a dragonblood Divine Mind and taking a few of those feats that grant Dragon Shaman auras for stackable aura fun. But yes, the classes are redundant and are really there for some extra flavor and fluff purposes. But really, all of D&D can be narrowed down to just four classes, so theres nothing wrong with a little fluff here and there.
Millenia 06-20-07, 04:54 PM	Personally, I kinda like the Energy Lance power... too bad its save DC doesn't increase with augmentation. I used an LA of 6. It plays like a Psychic Warrior, and comes packaged with a greatsword and Greater Psionic Weapon, plus the abiltiy to get back your psi focus as a move action. Lots of damage, but not overly powerful for the ECL. Unfortunately, I only got to go into comabt very briefly, as I stupidly attacked two of the Four Horsemen of the Apocolypse.....by myself :blush: I see, thanks. XD What's that power that makes your enemy's head explode? I love that one. It's called Cranial Deluge.
RadicalTaoist 06-20-07, 04:57 PM	There are two, actually. Cranial Deluge and Intellect Bomb.
Draz74 06-20-07, 05:10 PM	But really, all of D&D can be narrowed down to just four classes, so theres nothing wrong with a little fluff here and there. Artificer, Wizard, Archivist, and Druid? ;)
Psionx 06-20-07, 05:16 PM	What about cleric?
Antendren 06-20-07, 06:15 PM	Honestly, Wizard could be dropped from that list. Replace it with Cleric.
Draz74 06-20-07, 07:06 PM	What about cleric? Some people claim Archivist renders Cleric obsolete by surpassing it. I don't know if it's true, not having tried one, but that's what I was going off of. Artificer, Wizard, Cleric, Druid is a pretty impressive choice of 4 too.
Bacris 06-20-07, 07:17 PM	I've personally use the Ardent and Erudite in my own games. I would not allow the following (without major house rules): Divine Mind Storm Disciple Anarchic Initiate Flayerspawn & all the flayer feats Most of the rest I'd likely allow, but not necessarily use.
angellis_ater 06-20-07, 08:00 PM	I've DM'd several campaigns with psionic characters and played in one - not even ONCE has the book come up. My players have looked through it and discarded it, I as a DM ignore most of what's in there (Stygian powers, nerfed AC, anything flayer-ish, almost all the PrC's and the monsters in general). UTP though...
DrowBattlemind 06-21-07, 01:24 AM	Wait, they made Soul Knife a d20 Modern class? OMG, thats awsome! Uh, I mean, thats mildly nice to hear. Better, they merged it with the Psychic Warrior, it's called the Battlemind. best of both squirells, er, worlds. :) It's called Cranial Deluge. There are two, actually. Cranial Deluge and Intellect Bomb. AHHHH!!!! 80's FLASHBACK! SCANNERS!!!!!!!!! RUN!!!!!!!
Ken of Ghastria 07-15-07, 12:07 PM	From a role-playing perspective, I like the idea of a Divine Mind as a sort of psi-paladin (since a paldadin can't multiclass as a psion and still advance in that first class). He's just underpowered right now, IMO. The divine mind needs better saves, earlier access to psionic powers, or more effective mantle-granted abilities for proper balance. --Ken
red_scare87 07-15-07, 12:13 PM	Honestly, most of the stuff in Complete Psionic is really terrible. However, I find myself using the Lurk, Ardent, new powers, a few feats, and a handful of PrCs a lot. I'd say it's worth buying if you want a few more options.
Istarion 07-15-07, 12:38 PM	In my campaign, it's being used mostly for the Soulbow, some feats (Enervation endurance and postpone enervation among others), some powers (Damp Power for example), Synads, and... Illithid heritage feats (I know they are wrong... but linking them to people who dwell near Xoriat manifest zones or something plays nicely). On classes, the lurk sees major play, and the Ardent also has seen the light of day, but not much as the lurk.
Ken of Ghastria 07-15-07, 12:52 PM	The lurk is a good class. In one of the rotating campaigns in my group (we take turns as DMs every few months), I play a fighter/psychic rogue, but if I had to start the character from scratch, I'd probably make him a lurk. Good combo of powers, fighting, and sneaking stuff. --Ken
InkBlot 07-15-07, 03:23 PM	Currently, I've seen a shifter barbarian1/ardent5 being played. He's a buff-up and run-in kind of character, and he's doing very well.
Thakowsaizmu 07-15-07, 05:08 PM	I personally like the Lurk. I think the Ardent is alright, but I don't plan on ever playing as one. I think the Divine Mind is an interesting idea but that is about it. I was very disappointed with the PrCs, but have found some of the new powers useful. I also like the Erudite, but mostly for villinous NPCs. Oh, and there are some really good feats too, and some feats that really could've all been one feat (all of the psi-blade feats could've just been one feat that allowed you to choose which weapon the blade could emulate. I fixed that for my group already though). All in all, I don't think that it was as bad as many people make it out to be. Great? No, but definately not the worst book WotC has put out.
Manyfist 07-15-07, 05:24 PM	Ardent, Synad, 3.5 Erudite, Lurk and the new powers are the only saving graces. I think its stupid to pay $30 for a errata that didn't even answer the main questions that need to be answered. Like what happens when your Psi crystal dies?...etc.
TheDarkLord 07-15-07, 05:35 PM	My group had of a Synad Erudite in it for a while, awesome character. I would like to take a look at the original erudite to compare the two, but I'm not going to buy that magazine to look at it because the 3.5 erudite is fine as is.
InkBlot 07-15-07, 06:24 PM	The original erudite was 3.5 as well. It was just like the ComPsi erudite, except for it's unique powers per day. It got a different amount of unique powers for each level; about as many unique powers of each level as a wizard has spell slots. So, for example, a 5th level erudite could know two unique 3rd level powers, three unique second level powers, and four unique 1st level powers per day. I forget exactly what the numbers were. I just remember It added up so that an erudite had more unique powers per day than a psion has ever.
Celsun 07-16-07, 01:45 PM	I understand there's a lot of negative sentiment concerning Complete Psionic. CPsi has some gems, but you have to pick them out of mud and polish them: the ardent, the lurk (especially with the Mind's Eye class variants), the stygian powers, celestial conduit, infernal conduit, the divine mind, the synad, the psywar archery powers, the elan resistance and resilience feats, etc.
Jhaelen 07-16-07, 03:23 PM	CPsi has some gems, but you have to pick them out of mud and polish them: the ardent, the lurk (especially with the Mind's Eye class variants), the stygian powers, celestial conduit, infernal conduit, the divine mind, the synad, the psywar archery powers, the elan resistance and resilience feats, etc.Of course a lot of these are only gems if you are comfortable with the concept of 'divine' psionics. I for one could have done without.
Celsun 07-17-07, 02:28 PM	The divine flavor in CPsi can just be ignored. I don't like the concept of psionics being gifts of the divine, either, but I like the concept of psionics creating a connection to the divine (such as a Universal Consciousness or a divine mind).
Tempest Stormwind 07-17-07, 02:39 PM	The divine flavor in CPsi can just be ignored. I don't like the concept of psionics being gifts of the divine, either, but I like the concept of psionics creating a connection to the divine (such as a Universal Consciousness or a divine mind). Which is done significantly better with the society mind or the myriad works in The Mind Divine. There are some things I like in CPsi -- the ardent, the lurk, the erudite (if you iron out a few kinks that remained from Dragon), a small handful of powers (and even then, some are "fun but useless"; Cranial Deluge, for instance, is a power I'd only choose if I were a Mental Power ardent who couldn't pick anything better due to primary mantles), and one or two items (which show up in the MIC, on the most part, except that's a better book BY FAR). As for the rest, it's ALMOST pure garbage. See the Lycanthromancer link in my sig. In fact, part of the reason Untapped Potential happened so quickly is because Complete Psionic was so bad (except for a few gems) and we knew the boards could do better. (Some of UTP's material existed pre-CPsi on the boards and was used by permission from the original authors, who retain the copyright on it. This is even true on powers that were revised for clarity -- Ectoskeleton, for instance, got a rather heavy revision mechanically when compared to the original (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6876543&postcount=149), but that was mostly for clarity and ease of use).
myusernameis 07-17-07, 02:52 PM	Well, with the release of that ability in the Mind Eye article that lets psychic warriors take a single mantle I've found much use in the energy mantle as a way to get all them funky blasty type powers (combined with expanded knowledge for a other funky tidbits) for a ki blasting, flying, "WHAT'S THE SCOUTER SAY ABOUT HIS POWER LEVEL?" (I'll give you a hint, it's under 10,000 but still rather high) style of psychic warrior to mess with my anti-DBZ DM (I'm not a fan either, but I take a certain glee in making effective concepts that make the players raise their eyebrows and say "wtf?") .
Fafnir 07-17-07, 04:21 PM	Well, with the release of that ability in the Mind Eye article that lets psychic warriors take a single mantle I've found much use in the energy mantle as a way to get all them funky blasty type powers (combined with expanded knowledge for a other funky tidbits) for a ki blasting, flying, "WHAT'S THE SCOUTER SAY ABOUT HIS POWER LEVEL?" (I'll give you a hint, it's under 10,000 but still rather high) style of psychic warrior to mess with my anti-DBZ DM (I'm not a fan either, but I take a certain glee in making effective concepts that make the players raise their eyebrows and say "wtf?") . IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAND! :eek:
myusernameis 07-17-07, 04:22 PM	IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAND! :eek:If only there was an emote for crushing one's scouter.
Lycanthromancer 07-17-07, 04:33 PM	Ye gods. That's...that's awesome.
DisposableHero_ 07-17-07, 06:09 PM	Complete Psionic was quite simply a few diamonds in a vast rough. Most of the distaste for the book is born of disappointment more so than the quality of the book, because the bad parts of the book aren't awful as much as they are misplaced. It was most eloquently described on this board shortly after the book's release as a departure from what made the XPH a success. Unlike any other complete book CPsi did not expand on what it's source material already did, and instead took it in completely different direction. In essence, everyone looking forward to the book wanted "The Expanded Psionics Handbook Expansion" and we got "The Planar Psionics Handbook". I like many others waited with baited breath for the release of this book expecting to Jazz up my existing psionic character concepts with cool new stuff. Instead I got a book that is much more suited to making completely new psionic character concepts (some of which are pretty cool mind). I'm pretty sure that was the reaction of most Psi fans too, and that disappointment was the driving force for the wave of terrible reviews. The best parts of the book are the Lurk, the Ardent, the Soulbow, and a few of the feats, and for my money the book is worth it for the first two as they are quite well done. In unrelated news: I CAN FINALLY REACH THE BOARDS AGAIN! :dancin:
carnivore 07-18-07, 12:21 PM	i agree ..... things i like about Complete Psi: classes and PrC: Ardent Anarchic initiate Soulbow Illumine Soul Erudite Races: Synad Feats: Link Power Metapower Transdimensional Power Powers: Adrenaline Boost Animate Plants Celestial Conduit Crystal Storm Energy Barrage Energy Claw Eyes of the Basilisk Planar Apothesis Sensory Gloom Stygian Bane Stygian Disruption Stygian Erasure Zone of Alertness :D
myusernameis 07-18-07, 02:24 PM	Am I the only one who actually liked the Divine Mind? Sure, mechanics wise, it sucked, but it actually did something with psionics besides "lol, mind powers" I don't think it's that far fetched that the psionic power of some could be divine gifts.
Racinante 07-18-07, 02:54 PM	Am I the only one who actually liked the Divine Mind? Sure, mechanics wise, it sucked, but it actually did something with psionics besides "lol, mind powers" I don't think it's that far fetched that the psionic power of some could be divine gifts. You are not alone. At first I was reticent, but the more I've read and thought about it, I actually like the concept.
Bacris 07-18-07, 03:26 PM	Personally, I prefer more of a spirituel way of doing it...
InkBlot 07-18-07, 03:53 PM	I liked the idea of mantles, auras, and ranger-like manifesting of the divine mind. I hate the flavor and the mechanical weakness of the divine mind.
Jhaelen 07-19-07, 04:18 AM	Am I the only one who actually liked the Divine Mind? Sure, mechanics wise, it sucked, but it actually did something with psionics besides "lol, mind powers" I don't think it's that far fetched that the psionic power of some could be divine gifts.I think it is. Deities grant divine magic, not psionics. Psionics are powered from within not from some outside force. That's _the_ decisive difference between magic and psionics. If you're removing it, you can just go ahead and call it 'mental magic' or something like that (which incidentally would solve lots of odd problems, so it might actually be a good idea for a new edition of the game, but I digress...). I DO like the flavour of the ardent. It's just that the mantles and the way you have to choose powers from them is overly restrictive. I've given up on trying to create a decent ardent. If all mantles offered (at least) one power per level, things would be different. What I'd like to see, though, is the original class (as intended by the class's designer) which combined the abilities of the ardent and the divine mind. That would probably _really_ have been a decent one.
Sargeras 07-19-07, 06:29 AM	Whatever feat it is that lets Elans trade 1 power point to reduce ANY damage by 4 is way overpowered. Of course, I think that being able to trade in 1 PP to reduce damage by 2 is pretty powerful, anyway. 'Cause, I mean, think about it- Say you have a psion with 35 HP and 100 Power Points. In reality, if he really needed to, he could have 235 HP by reducing all damage he takes with PP. Granted, he couldn't manifest any powers that day, but say he only used 50 or so...that's still 135 HP and 50 PP...rather overpowered, I think. And I think the Lurk was a pretty cool idea. Those are my 2 cents. :)
anarchy1973 07-19-07, 08:59 AM	Classes: Lurk = Good stuff, didn't like the feel of the Ardent or Divine Mind, I felt they took away from what I feel Psionics is about. Prestige Classes = Loved the Anarchic Initiate, I am sick of always having to read people posting about Psionics being overpowered when it isn't, I for one want more classes that actually offer the Psion something. (Bring on a Psionic Incantrix). I thought the Flayerspawn Psychuc sucked immensely, what were they thinking ? Same as the Illithid Heritage Feats, shows a massive lack of continuity from Lords of Madness & even further back to the 2e Illithiad. Besides that I liked the reprinted Erudite & the Synad Race, also loved the Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor. Besides that not to much else has made it into our games. My DM has not taken the Errata for Energy Missile & Astral Construct into account, he feels that Arcane already pawns Psionics so sees no need to hamstring an already balanced system with errata that makes the Psion even more underpowered in comparison to Arcane Casters.
myusernameis 07-19-07, 01:37 PM	I think it is. Deities grant divine magic, not psionics. Psionics are powered from within not from some outside force.How so? They're deities, they're supposed to be able to mess with reality, they just the divine mind the correct nudge needed to use his own inner strength to serve the cause of the deity.
carnivore 07-19-07, 03:44 PM	How so? They're deities, they're supposed to be able to mess with reality, they just the divine mind the correct nudge needed to use his own inner strength to serve the cause of the deity. notice: Psionics and the Weave Unlike Spells, which derive thier power from Faeruns Weave(or the Shadow Weave), Psionic ability taps only the Inner resevoirs of the manifester. In a sense, each psionic creature is its own Weave, using the magic of its own Lifeforce and Mind to create Psionic effects. Mystra and Shar have no ability to deny Psionic creatures access to powers, and they do not control the promulgation of Psionic Lore and ability throughout the populace of Faerun. While Psionic does not require the Weave to function, Psionic Power are magical in nature. Spells such as Detect Magic can also detect Psionic abilities at work, and spells such as Dispel Magic or Antimagic Shell can Negate, suppress, or completely cancel Psionic Manifestations. :D
TheDarkLord 07-19-07, 04:36 PM	What does Faerun have to do with generic DnD?
CrimsonDeath 07-19-07, 04:40 PM	Whatever feat it is that lets Elans trade 1 power point to reduce ANY damage by 4 is way overpowered. Of course, I think that being able to trade in 1 PP to reduce damage by 2 is pretty powerful, anyway. 'Cause, I mean, think about it- Say you have a psion with 35 HP and 100 Power Points. In reality, if he really needed to, he could have 235 HP by reducing all damage he takes with PP. Granted, he couldn't manifest any powers that day, but say he only used 50 or so...that's still 135 HP and 50 PP...rather overpowered, I think. In terms of PP cost and action cost, it's not as good as Vigor.
InkBlot 07-19-07, 04:43 PM	It's also not as good as cure light wounds, inertial armor, protection from evil, or biofeedback.
Oregwath 07-19-07, 05:10 PM	I like the elemental envoy feat. I mean really, starting a level one psion with a cr 2 buddy who is completely devoted to making you happy? Who wouldn't want one?
Tempest Stormwind 07-19-07, 05:35 PM	I like the elemental envoy feat. I mean really, starting a level one psion with a cr 2 buddy who is completely devoted to making you happy? Who wouldn't want one? Someone who plans to gain a level or two? Elemental Envoy doesn't scale. Ever.
Sargeras 07-19-07, 07:35 PM	In terms of PP cost and action cost, it's not as good as Vigor. Right, and any psionic character can get Vigor. Including an Elan Psion with the Resilience ability. But you do make a good point, and that does balance it out a bit. Still a big advantage, though. Which is balanced out by the +1 LA.... Nevermind, good point CrimsonDeath. :rolleyes:
CrimsonDeath 07-19-07, 09:42 PM	+1 LA and the feat you spend to double it? A feat you could've spent on Expanded Knowledge, for example?
Legdiwena 07-20-07, 01:49 PM	Is Zerth Cerobite any good?
Tempest Stormwind 07-20-07, 01:56 PM	Is Zerth Cerobite any good? Once per day.