OK seriously is this true and why... [Archive] - Wizards Community

OK seriously is this true and why... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Liquid_Technique
02-12-08, 06:30 PM Another person made following claim on another thread:

"Furthermore, read the Player's Guide to Faerun. Psionics is not independent of the weave at all. (Neither is divine magic, for that matter.)"

Now I want to know if there is any base for this claim.

1. Is Psionics independent of the weave or not?

2. Provided that Psionics depends from the weave then how excatly does it depend from the weave?

3. Provided that the whole weave would malfunktio or something like during Times of Trouble would Psions lose their Psionic powers or not or would they be fine? (referring to question niumber 1).

Thanks in advace,

Liquid_Techniqu
deadkoo
02-12-08, 06:42 PM the time of troubles didn't effect psions.

or at least, thats what Salvatore said in his books..

the Drow psions pretended that their powers were boned also.

Part of the reason that house was destroyed.

as for the weave.. I don't really play faerfun so sry

EDIT: yes I know I put faerfun.. it was a typo, but it actually sounds cool and funny, so I will leave it.
jbsaff
02-12-08, 06:43 PM Another person made following claim on another thread:

"Furthermore, read the Player's Guide to Faerun. Psionics is not independent of the weave at all. (Neither is divine magic, for that matter.)"

Now I want to know if there is any base for this claim.

1. Is Psionics independent of the weave or not?

Ask and ye shall receive (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040305a&page=3). Looks like psionics uses a personal weave, seperate and unique. Your DM may vary, but that's what the book says.

Ironic that the very book this person tried to use as evidence against you refutes him.
Jaxgaret
02-12-08, 06:48 PM Ask and ye shall receive (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040305a&page=3). Looks like psionics uses a personal weave, seperate and unique. Your DM may vary, but that's what the book says.

Ironic that the very book this person tried to use as evidence against you refutes him.

Does there being a dead magic zone mean the same thing as the Weave not being present in the area?

I'm not 100% famiiliar with the Realms' idiosyncracies.

If not, then this quote:

While psionics does not require the Weave to function, psionic powers are magical in nature.

would lead me to believe that Psionics would not work in a dead magic zone.
Crimson_Concerto
02-12-08, 06:49 PM Given what little I know of the weave and Faerun, I highly doubt Psionics are in any way connected to the weave. I was always under the impression the weave was just the source Faerun made up for its world's arcane magic. I always thought divine magic was separate from it as well, and so I see no reason any kind of transparency should apply here.

...Don't quote me on that, though...
Legdiwena
02-12-08, 06:53 PM Dead magic is a tear in the Weave and magic can't be used there. Shadow weave users can use magic freely in dead magic zones and so can psionics.
jbsaff
02-12-08, 06:54 PM Transparency rules should cover anti-magic areas. I'll admit to finding the sentence on transparency in the Realms in the linked article somewhat confusing, so I'll leave off for someone with a higher Knowledge(Faerun) check.

EDIT: Ninja'd by said more knowledgeable person.
deadkoo
02-12-08, 06:54 PM Ironic that the very book this person tried to use as evidence against you refutes him.

Ironic, or just normal humanity?

I know as a boyfriend I have selective hearing during an arguement, nagging, or generally whenever I am in trouble(which seems to be quite often now that I think about it...)

Probably the same thing... only without the sex...
Liquid_Technique
02-12-08, 07:04 PM Huge thanks. So whole concept of Psionics is supreme to concept of magic and divine.
CrimsonDeath
02-12-08, 07:06 PM I know as a boyfriend I have selective hearing during an arguement, nagging, or generally whenever I am in trouble(which seems to be quite often now that I think about it...)

Or maybe your girlfriend just keeps making stuff up and pretending you forgot it? (Not that she'd necessarily do it on purpose; it's very easy to do that sort of thing accidentally.)
Legdiwena
02-12-08, 07:08 PM Huge thanks. So whole concept of Psionics is supreme to concept of magic and divine.

There are some things psionics can not do as well as normal magic. Healing is one of them, it can be done just not as well.
Liquid_Technique
02-12-08, 07:10 PM "There are some things psionics can not do as well as normal magic. Healing is one of them, it can be done just not as well."

I am interested to know what are these other things than healing. Please tell me and educate me!
Legdiwena
02-12-08, 07:17 PM I'll have to dig into my sourcebooks and research that topic a bit, will get back to you later.
Liquid_Technique
02-12-08, 07:40 PM Ok.
deadkoo
02-12-08, 07:42 PM Or maybe your girlfriend just keeps making stuff up and pretending you forgot it? (Not that she'd necessarily do it on purpose; it's very easy to do that sort of thing accidentally.)

LOL

I am totally going to use that as my next argument...

hehe
The_Ditto
02-12-08, 08:02 PM "There are some things psionics can not do as well as normal magic. Healing is one of them, it can be done just not as well."

I am interested to know what are these other things than healing. Please tell me and educate me!

(mind control, telepathy, enchantment) -type effects ...

It also seems to be pretty good at dimensional travel/teleport/temporal effects ...

Self-buffs .. it seems to do better as well, with more versatility ...
(ie Expansion > Enlarge Person ... for self only)
(ie Claws powers, bite powers, etc)
CrimsonDeath
02-12-08, 08:16 PM (mind control, telepathy, enchantment) -type effects ...

It also seems to be pretty good at dimensional travel/teleport/temporal effects ...

Self-buffs .. it seems to do better as well, with more versatility ...
(ie Expansion > Enlarge Person ... for self only)
(ie Claws powers, bite powers, etc)

Those are all things that Psionics does better.

Things that Psionics doesn't do as well-- wards, non-self buffs, and the entire schools of Illusion and Necromancy.
AntiDjinn
02-12-08, 08:36 PM Manifesters are not quite as good at:

- Healing others.
- Buffing others.
- Wide area effects. They have many, but not as many as mages. They don't have a fraction of the mage's option for Long range combat.
- Affecting things beyond their perception or immediate area. You won't find powers the duplicate spells like Guards and Wards which can lock doors and web staircases in the area even if the caster doesn't know they are there. For that matter, you won't find powers that combine many dissimilar effects the way that spell does.

Manifesters are better at:

- Buffing themselves.
- Using powers under adverse conditions such as silence, while being grappled, after being stripped buck naked, or even while stunned (that last one takes a feat). The option to expend focus to take 15 on a Concentration check means it is fairly difficult to break a manifester's concentration.
- Using powers without drawing attention to themselves. Obviously, if you shoot a ray and blow someone up it will be noticed, but they can charm someone without gibberish or finger wiggling.
Tempest Stormwind
02-12-08, 09:02 PM Ask and ye shall receive (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040305a&page=3). Looks like psionics uses a personal weave, seperate and unique. Your DM may vary, but that's what the book says.

Ironic that the very book this person tried to use as evidence against you refutes him.

That was me.

The argument I was responding to was NOT that "psionics can't be denied by Mystra or Shar". I was responding to "psionics don't use the Weave", which was used by the argumentor to argue that psionics function where magic does not. Correct premise, incorrect conclusion.

Specifically, my exact quote was "Look at the rules -- where magic doesn't function, psionics doesn't function. (This is true of all alternate magic systems, and it's known as transparency.)"

And his response?

"Well franky said that is extremely illogical. It makes no sense whatsoever."

He then goes on in the same thread to accuse me -- ME, mind you -- of not understanding psionics-magic transparency. (This isn't arrogance; it's honesty. In addition to maintaining the FAQ and understanding the exploits in transparency (i.e. feats are nontransparent), during the CO focus group on the Rules Compendium, I was the chief voice for getting transparency text in there.)

Look for yourself. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=990736)

I stand by my conclusion: This issue isn't about psionics, it's about Faerun having gods that, at the DM's whim, can take away magic. That's the COMPLETE basis for his argument on psionics -- he evidently hadn't even read the rules on them, just the FR fluff.
jbsaff
02-12-08, 11:01 PM WHOA! This changes everything! ;)

Okay, I've got to let rip with a heary belly laugh reading that thread. "[L]etting experts to clarify this." I realize that some people may have, by some stroke of (ill-)luck, been reading the psionics forum when Temptest wasn't particularly active, but for someone who's been reading for a couple years, it struck me as outright hilarious.

More to the point, the OP looked like a fluff question about a campaign setting I don't play in (outside of NWN, that is). So I did a quick google search and was done with it.

Liquid, make sure you ask your real question next time. You'll get a better answer instead of the unfortunate response I provided earlier.
hogarth
02-13-08, 07:36 AM Another person made following claim on another thread:

"Furthermore, read the Player's Guide to Faerun. Psionics is not independent of the weave at all. (Neither is divine magic, for that matter.)"

Now I want to know if there is any base for this claim.
To recap:

The Player's Guide to Faerun specifically says that a psion acts as his own "weave".
But the Expanded Psionics Handbook specifically says that dead magic areas are dead psionics areas, too. Why? It doesn't say, so make something up or ask your DM. Or ask some guy on the internet, if you prefer.
McPoyo
02-13-08, 08:38 AM Technically, campaign setting specific fluff overrides original sourcebook fluff by nature of it being different from the normal ruling in that setting, so it could technically be both of those at the same time, you know :)
Lycanthromancer
02-13-08, 08:43 AM Not trying to be snarky, and you might already know, but it bears stating (at least once).

The Forgotten Realms are separate from 'standard' D&D. There are rules involved that don't have anything to do with core rules of D&D, and the basic rules presented in the XPH differ from those in the Realms.

Standard magic/psionics transparency states that null magic zones are also null psionics zones. The Realms are specific in depending on Mystra's Weave and the Shadow Weave, the psi crowd depends on their own internal weave (and are thus separate from them). Ergo, in Faerun antimagic zones are NOT antipsionic zones, but this has nothing to do with standard transparency and are not the base on which the standard psionics system should be judged. :)
Lycanthromancer
02-13-08, 08:44 AM Technically, campaign setting specific fluff overrides original sourcebook fluff by nature of it being different from the normal ruling in that setting, so it could technically be both of those at the same time, you know :)...Darn. Ninja'd.
McPoyo
02-13-08, 12:04 PM ...Darn. Ninja'd.

Whoo! Ninja'd Lycanthromancer!
teshen
02-13-08, 12:41 PM . . . I was responding to "psionics don't use the Weave", which was used by the argumentor to argue that psionics function where magic does not. Correct premise, incorrect conclusion.

Specifically, my exact quote was "Look at the rules -- where magic doesn't function, psionics doesn't function. (This is true of all alternate magic systems, and it's known as transparency.)". . .A solid RAW interpretation.

The argument could be made, however that some magic does work in 'dead magic zones'... specifically shadow weave users.

. . . The Forgotten Realms are separate from 'standard' D&D. There are rules involved that don't have anything to do with core rules of D&D, and the basic rules presented in the XPH differ from those in the Realms.

Standard magic/psionics transparency states that null magic zones are also null psionics zones. The Realms are specific in depending on Mystra's Weave and the Shadow Weave, the psi crowd depends on their own internal weave (and are thus separate from them). Ergo, in Faerun antimagic zones are NOT antipsionic zones, but this has nothing to do with standard transparency and are not the base on which the standard psionics system should be judged. :)
So one interpretation is that, in Faerun, Psionics work in dead magic areas but in all other situations that suppress magic, such as an antimagic field or dispel magic, psionics are suppressed/dispelled also, specifically because a specific campaign setting modifies the core rules for that setting.

I can see about half of my old dms going with first interpretation and the other half going with the second interpretation.
hogarth
02-13-08, 12:48 PM Not trying to be snarky, and you might already know, but it bears stating (at least once).
That was quite politely put, and didn't seem snarky at all. A first for the internet! :)

One thing that seems strange to me, though: I associate dead magic zones (rightly or wrongly) pretty much exclusively with the Forgotten Realms. Thus it seems a bit pointless (to me) to explicitly state "dead magic zones are dead psionic zones" if they didn't mean "dead magic zones in the Forgotten Realms", too. So when I said "ask your DM", I meant "ask your DM on the off-chance that he has some logical explanation why a rip in the Weave prevents psionics from working even though psionics aren't dependent on the Weave".
AntiDjinn
02-13-08, 01:09 PM This area is heavily houseruled from what I have seen. Inevitable when the "official" rules are absent or ambiguous.

My group doesn't use Faerun, but one DM I know uses the following: In areas without the weave a manifester can use powers that target himself only. So a psion could still Schism or Catfall, but not use Energy Ball because there is no planar scaffolding upon which to hang the external supernatural effect. Manifesters may use the Shadow Weave to full effect if they worship Shar and serve her cult; they don't need to take levels as a divine caster. Given Shar's nature, it is generally better to take the hit in power than be beholden to her.
That is a table rule, but it manages to make psionics differ from magic in a minor way without allowing manifesters to completely ignore a feature that is there to add flavor to the setting.
CrimsonDeath
02-13-08, 03:51 PM That was quite politely put, and didn't seem snarky at all. A first for the internet! :)

One thing that seems strange to me, though: I associate dead magic zones (rightly or wrongly) pretty much exclusively with the Forgotten Realms. Thus it seems a bit pointless (to me) to explicitly state "dead magic zones are dead psionic zones" if they didn't mean "dead magic zones in the Forgotten Realms", too. So when I said "ask your DM", I meant "ask your DM on the off-chance that he has some logical explanation why a rip in the Weave prevents psionics from working even though psionics aren't dependent on the Weave".

It could also refer to planes with a "dead magic" (or whatever it's called) planar trait, such as near the top of the infinite tower in the center of the Outlands.
The_Ditto
02-13-08, 04:19 PM Those are all things that Psionics does better.

Things that Psionics doesn't do as well-- wards, non-self buffs, and the entire schools of Illusion and Necromancy.

hehe ... sorry .. my Dyslexia kicked in again ... :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Liquid_Technique 02-12-08, 06:30 PM	Another person made following claim on another thread: "Furthermore, read the Player's Guide to Faerun. Psionics is not independent of the weave at all. (Neither is divine magic, for that matter.)" Now I want to know if there is any base for this claim. 1. Is Psionics independent of the weave or not? 2. Provided that Psionics depends from the weave then how excatly does it depend from the weave? 3. Provided that the whole weave would malfunktio or something like during Times of Trouble would Psions lose their Psionic powers or not or would they be fine? (referring to question niumber 1). Thanks in advace, Liquid_Techniqu
deadkoo 02-12-08, 06:42 PM	the time of troubles didn't effect psions. or at least, thats what Salvatore said in his books.. the Drow psions pretended that their powers were boned also. Part of the reason that house was destroyed. as for the weave.. I don't really play faerfun so sry EDIT: yes I know I put faerfun.. it was a typo, but it actually sounds cool and funny, so I will leave it.
jbsaff 02-12-08, 06:43 PM	Another person made following claim on another thread: "Furthermore, read the Player's Guide to Faerun. Psionics is not independent of the weave at all. (Neither is divine magic, for that matter.)" Now I want to know if there is any base for this claim. 1. Is Psionics independent of the weave or not? Ask and ye shall receive (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040305a&page=3). Looks like psionics uses a personal weave, seperate and unique. Your DM may vary, but that's what the book says. Ironic that the very book this person tried to use as evidence against you refutes him.
Jaxgaret 02-12-08, 06:48 PM	Ask and ye shall receive (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040305a&page=3). Looks like psionics uses a personal weave, seperate and unique. Your DM may vary, but that's what the book says. Ironic that the very book this person tried to use as evidence against you refutes him. Does there being a dead magic zone mean the same thing as the Weave not being present in the area? I'm not 100% famiiliar with the Realms' idiosyncracies. If not, then this quote: While psionics does not require the Weave to function, psionic powers are magical in nature. would lead me to believe that Psionics would not work in a dead magic zone.
Crimson_Concerto 02-12-08, 06:49 PM	Given what little I know of the weave and Faerun, I highly doubt Psionics are in any way connected to the weave. I was always under the impression the weave was just the source Faerun made up for its world's arcane magic. I always thought divine magic was separate from it as well, and so I see no reason any kind of transparency should apply here. ...Don't quote me on that, though...
Legdiwena 02-12-08, 06:53 PM	Dead magic is a tear in the Weave and magic can't be used there. Shadow weave users can use magic freely in dead magic zones and so can psionics.
jbsaff 02-12-08, 06:54 PM	Transparency rules should cover anti-magic areas. I'll admit to finding the sentence on transparency in the Realms in the linked article somewhat confusing, so I'll leave off for someone with a higher Knowledge(Faerun) check. EDIT: Ninja'd by said more knowledgeable person.
deadkoo 02-12-08, 06:54 PM	Ironic that the very book this person tried to use as evidence against you refutes him. Ironic, or just normal humanity? I know as a boyfriend I have selective hearing during an arguement, nagging, or generally whenever I am in trouble(which seems to be quite often now that I think about it...) Probably the same thing... only without the sex...
Liquid_Technique 02-12-08, 07:04 PM	Huge thanks. So whole concept of Psionics is supreme to concept of magic and divine.
CrimsonDeath 02-12-08, 07:06 PM	I know as a boyfriend I have selective hearing during an arguement, nagging, or generally whenever I am in trouble(which seems to be quite often now that I think about it...) Or maybe your girlfriend just keeps making stuff up and pretending you forgot it? (Not that she'd necessarily do it on purpose; it's very easy to do that sort of thing accidentally.)
Legdiwena 02-12-08, 07:08 PM	Huge thanks. So whole concept of Psionics is supreme to concept of magic and divine. There are some things psionics can not do as well as normal magic. Healing is one of them, it can be done just not as well.
Liquid_Technique 02-12-08, 07:10 PM	"There are some things psionics can not do as well as normal magic. Healing is one of them, it can be done just not as well." I am interested to know what are these other things than healing. Please tell me and educate me!
Legdiwena 02-12-08, 07:17 PM	I'll have to dig into my sourcebooks and research that topic a bit, will get back to you later.
Liquid_Technique 02-12-08, 07:40 PM	Ok.
deadkoo 02-12-08, 07:42 PM	Or maybe your girlfriend just keeps making stuff up and pretending you forgot it? (Not that she'd necessarily do it on purpose; it's very easy to do that sort of thing accidentally.) LOL I am totally going to use that as my next argument... hehe
The_Ditto 02-12-08, 08:02 PM	"There are some things psionics can not do as well as normal magic. Healing is one of them, it can be done just not as well." I am interested to know what are these other things than healing. Please tell me and educate me! (mind control, telepathy, enchantment) -type effects ... It also seems to be pretty good at dimensional travel/teleport/temporal effects ... Self-buffs .. it seems to do better as well, with more versatility ... (ie Expansion > Enlarge Person ... for self only) (ie Claws powers, bite powers, etc)
CrimsonDeath 02-12-08, 08:16 PM	(mind control, telepathy, enchantment) -type effects ... It also seems to be pretty good at dimensional travel/teleport/temporal effects ... Self-buffs .. it seems to do better as well, with more versatility ... (ie Expansion > Enlarge Person ... for self only) (ie Claws powers, bite powers, etc) Those are all things that Psionics does better. Things that Psionics doesn't do as well-- wards, non-self buffs, and the entire schools of Illusion and Necromancy.
AntiDjinn 02-12-08, 08:36 PM	Manifesters are not quite as good at: - Healing others. - Buffing others. - Wide area effects. They have many, but not as many as mages. They don't have a fraction of the mage's option for Long range combat. - Affecting things beyond their perception or immediate area. You won't find powers the duplicate spells like Guards and Wards which can lock doors and web staircases in the area even if the caster doesn't know they are there. For that matter, you won't find powers that combine many dissimilar effects the way that spell does. Manifesters are better at: - Buffing themselves. - Using powers under adverse conditions such as silence, while being grappled, after being stripped buck naked, or even while stunned (that last one takes a feat). The option to expend focus to take 15 on a Concentration check means it is fairly difficult to break a manifester's concentration. - Using powers without drawing attention to themselves. Obviously, if you shoot a ray and blow someone up it will be noticed, but they can charm someone without gibberish or finger wiggling.
Tempest Stormwind 02-12-08, 09:02 PM	Ask and ye shall receive (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040305a&page=3). Looks like psionics uses a personal weave, seperate and unique. Your DM may vary, but that's what the book says. Ironic that the very book this person tried to use as evidence against you refutes him. That was me. The argument I was responding to was NOT that "psionics can't be denied by Mystra or Shar". I was responding to "psionics don't use the Weave", which was used by the argumentor to argue that psionics function where magic does not. Correct premise, incorrect conclusion. Specifically, my exact quote was "Look at the rules -- where magic doesn't function, psionics doesn't function. (This is true of all alternate magic systems, and it's known as transparency.)" And his response? "Well franky said that is extremely illogical. It makes no sense whatsoever." He then goes on in the same thread to accuse me -- ME, mind you -- of not understanding psionics-magic transparency. (This isn't arrogance; it's honesty. In addition to maintaining the FAQ and understanding the exploits in transparency (i.e. feats are nontransparent), during the CO focus group on the Rules Compendium, I was the chief voice for getting transparency text in there.) Look for yourself. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=990736) I stand by my conclusion: This issue isn't about psionics, it's about Faerun having gods that, at the DM's whim, can take away magic. That's the COMPLETE basis for his argument on psionics -- he evidently hadn't even read the rules on them, just the FR fluff.
jbsaff 02-12-08, 11:01 PM	WHOA! This changes everything! ;) Okay, I've got to let rip with a heary belly laugh reading that thread. "[L]etting experts to clarify this." I realize that some people may have, by some stroke of (ill-)luck, been reading the psionics forum when Temptest wasn't particularly active, but for someone who's been reading for a couple years, it struck me as outright hilarious. More to the point, the OP looked like a fluff question about a campaign setting I don't play in (outside of NWN, that is). So I did a quick google search and was done with it. Liquid, make sure you ask your real question next time. You'll get a better answer instead of the unfortunate response I provided earlier.
hogarth 02-13-08, 07:36 AM	Another person made following claim on another thread: "Furthermore, read the Player's Guide to Faerun. Psionics is not independent of the weave at all. (Neither is divine magic, for that matter.)" Now I want to know if there is any base for this claim. To recap: The Player's Guide to Faerun specifically says that a psion acts as his own "weave". But the Expanded Psionics Handbook specifically says that dead magic areas are dead psionics areas, too. Why? It doesn't say, so make something up or ask your DM. Or ask some guy on the internet, if you prefer.
McPoyo 02-13-08, 08:38 AM	Technically, campaign setting specific fluff overrides original sourcebook fluff by nature of it being different from the normal ruling in that setting, so it could technically be both of those at the same time, you know :)
Lycanthromancer 02-13-08, 08:43 AM	Not trying to be snarky, and you might already know, but it bears stating (at least once). The Forgotten Realms are separate from 'standard' D&D. There are rules involved that don't have anything to do with core rules of D&D, and the basic rules presented in the XPH differ from those in the Realms. Standard magic/psionics transparency states that null magic zones are also null psionics zones. The Realms are specific in depending on Mystra's Weave and the Shadow Weave, the psi crowd depends on their own internal weave (and are thus separate from them). Ergo, in Faerun antimagic zones are NOT antipsionic zones, but this has nothing to do with standard transparency and are not the base on which the standard psionics system should be judged. :)
Lycanthromancer 02-13-08, 08:44 AM	Technically, campaign setting specific fluff overrides original sourcebook fluff by nature of it being different from the normal ruling in that setting, so it could technically be both of those at the same time, you know :)...Darn. Ninja'd.
McPoyo 02-13-08, 12:04 PM	...Darn. Ninja'd. Whoo! Ninja'd Lycanthromancer!
teshen 02-13-08, 12:41 PM	. . . I was responding to "psionics don't use the Weave", which was used by the argumentor to argue that psionics function where magic does not. Correct premise, incorrect conclusion. Specifically, my exact quote was "Look at the rules -- where magic doesn't function, psionics doesn't function. (This is true of all alternate magic systems, and it's known as transparency.)". . .A solid RAW interpretation. The argument could be made, however that some magic does work in 'dead magic zones'... specifically shadow weave users. . . . The Forgotten Realms are separate from 'standard' D&D. There are rules involved that don't have anything to do with core rules of D&D, and the basic rules presented in the XPH differ from those in the Realms. Standard magic/psionics transparency states that null magic zones are also null psionics zones. The Realms are specific in depending on Mystra's Weave and the Shadow Weave, the psi crowd depends on their own internal weave (and are thus separate from them). Ergo, in Faerun antimagic zones are NOT antipsionic zones, but this has nothing to do with standard transparency and are not the base on which the standard psionics system should be judged. :) So one interpretation is that, in Faerun, Psionics work in dead magic areas but in all other situations that suppress magic, such as an antimagic field or dispel magic, psionics are suppressed/dispelled also, specifically because a specific campaign setting modifies the core rules for that setting. I can see about half of my old dms going with first interpretation and the other half going with the second interpretation.
hogarth 02-13-08, 12:48 PM	Not trying to be snarky, and you might already know, but it bears stating (at least once). That was quite politely put, and didn't seem snarky at all. A first for the internet! :) One thing that seems strange to me, though: I associate dead magic zones (rightly or wrongly) pretty much exclusively with the Forgotten Realms. Thus it seems a bit pointless (to me) to explicitly state "dead magic zones are dead psionic zones" if they didn't mean "dead magic zones in the Forgotten Realms", too. So when I said "ask your DM", I meant "ask your DM on the off-chance that he has some logical explanation why a rip in the Weave prevents psionics from working even though psionics aren't dependent on the Weave".
AntiDjinn 02-13-08, 01:09 PM	This area is heavily houseruled from what I have seen. Inevitable when the "official" rules are absent or ambiguous. My group doesn't use Faerun, but one DM I know uses the following: In areas without the weave a manifester can use powers that target himself only. So a psion could still Schism or Catfall, but not use Energy Ball because there is no planar scaffolding upon which to hang the external supernatural effect. Manifesters may use the Shadow Weave to full effect if they worship Shar and serve her cult; they don't need to take levels as a divine caster. Given Shar's nature, it is generally better to take the hit in power than be beholden to her. That is a table rule, but it manages to make psionics differ from magic in a minor way without allowing manifesters to completely ignore a feature that is there to add flavor to the setting.
CrimsonDeath 02-13-08, 03:51 PM	That was quite politely put, and didn't seem snarky at all. A first for the internet! :) One thing that seems strange to me, though: I associate dead magic zones (rightly or wrongly) pretty much exclusively with the Forgotten Realms. Thus it seems a bit pointless (to me) to explicitly state "dead magic zones are dead psionic zones" if they didn't mean "dead magic zones in the Forgotten Realms", too. So when I said "ask your DM", I meant "ask your DM on the off-chance that he has some logical explanation why a rip in the Weave prevents psionics from working even though psionics aren't dependent on the Weave". It could also refer to planes with a "dead magic" (or whatever it's called) planar trait, such as near the top of the infinite tower in the center of the Outlands.
The_Ditto 02-13-08, 04:19 PM	Those are all things that Psionics does better. Things that Psionics doesn't do as well-- wards, non-self buffs, and the entire schools of Illusion and Necromancy. hehe ... sorry .. my Dyslexia kicked in again ... :P