Old player new game need help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Old player new game need help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AFireY
10-12-07, 09:03 AM Looking to play a Psion for a new game. Haven't played since 2nd ed. and quit before they even had the psionics handbook. Some suggestions from some experienced players would be much appreciated. Here is my build thus far:

Psion (Telepath) 1
Moon Elf
Lawful Evil
STR: 7
DEX: 19
CON: 15
INT: 20
WIS: 14
CHR: 15

Feats:
Psionic Body (Psionic)
Psionic "Forgot the title" (General, this is in the XPH on the bottom of a page gives +2 powerpoints and an aditional power requirements: must be taken at lvl 1)

Powers:
Inertial Armor
Psionic Charm
Crystal Shard
Astral Construct (see feat above)

Weapons:
cross bow with sleep poison
caltrops with Acid inside
whip
alchemical fire
acid vials

I am used to playing wizards, but like i said I have never played a psionic. I see my character as sort of an antihero with his fingers in as many pies as he can get them into (resources = power). I would like some suggestions on Prcs and power progression (i.e. must have skills and powers) as well as feats (they are new to me). I was looking at the thrallherd...liked it some but since I am already a telepath seems like a waste Prc because I will be getting most of those powers on my own for my own manipulation enjoyment.

open to suggestions, comments, and questions...just need to hear some other opinions from some experienced players Thanks in advance
Bacris
10-12-07, 09:33 AM At 1st level, Astral Construct really isn't going to help you out - it's only going to last 1 round. And the feat (Hidden Talent) doesn't help out Psionic Body.

What I'd recommend is scrapping that feat and, at 3rd level, taking Expanded Knowledge for Astral Construct instead. Same benefit, but you get +2 hit points and 3 rounds of use.

for your other feat, I'd probably recommend Psicrystal Affinity - also nets you +2 HP, Alertness, and a minor buff. At higher levels, it can act as a great scout, but lock in with your DM what happens when a psicrystal dies, as the XPH doesn't cover it.

Cheers, and happy gaming!
SlanderPanic
10-12-07, 11:30 AM I'd probably get energy ray rather than crystal shard at first level. The net damage is about the same, but the former is more versatile. You're more likely to be fighting enemies with DR than energy resistance. Besides, if you're smart, there are a thousand things you can do with energy ray that just aren't possible with crystal shard. (Destroying an enemy's weapon is a fun example.)

I'm with Bacris on suggesting you take Psicrystal Affinity instead of Hidden Talent. It'll be of more benefit to you both now and in the long run. Something to keep in mind: Psicrystals never sleep. Ever. If someone tries to sneak up on your party while you're sleeping, your psicrystal can wake you up.

Most everything else is good, but I wouldn't bother buying a whip. You seem to have a pretty high equipment budget for a 1st-level character. (Sleep poison is 75 gp per dose, meaning that a single dose typically costs an average 1st level psion's entire starting budget (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/index.htm#randomStartingGold).)

Honestly, with a Strength of 7, you can't carry jack anyway. (Light load is 23 lbs.) I wouldn't load out with anything heavier than a shortspear, club, a few daggers, and a light crossbow. The former three can all be thrown, which is a last-ditch effort at best, given your low Strength, but might distract an enemy long enough for you to run away. Shortspears are good for poking into dark crevices and setting off traps from a distance. Clubs are free. Daggers... 1,001 uses and counting, baby. The crossbow is the one weapon you'll have that won't be borked by your Strength score and, at first level, it'll do about as much damage as a power.

Alchemist's fire and acid flasks are a great idea, but you should probably wait until they're a little more affordable.

Thrallherd is a great prestige class for a telepath. You can't go wrong with having your own private cadre of minions who get automatically replaced with no effort on your part and no penalty. For a character that values power and control, the power point discounts on psionic charm and psionic dominate should not be overlooked.

Frankly, given your stated character concept, it'd be silly not to go into thrallherd at the first opportunity.

Addendum: You may also want to look into the Telepathic Communication alternative class feature (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a). You can't get it until 5th level, but it's a very powerful ability that stays useful pretty much forever.
AFireY
10-12-07, 12:01 PM First off thanks for the quick responses...and I am now looking at making the minor adjustments =) (as per your suggestions)

Astral construct isn't going to help me out at first level you are right, just thought about getting a jump on it for the future endeavors. will dump this and do some research on the psi-crystal, but from what you describe it would definitely be a boon to my character (wouldn't want anyone to sneak up on me).

Chose crystal shard because of the save I beleive will have to look into energy ray and see...I basically just skimmed the powers haven't gotten anything perminate yet. I also seemed to have skimmed the thrallheard less powerpoint for power use would be great (how could I not have read that). Plus i beleive there is a power (from reading these forums) that allows you to unlearn and learn another power...could always do this to unlearn the powers that i have that and that the PRc will give me.

As far as the equipment the DM is pretty much letting us start out with any "mundane" items as long as they are reasonable. My characters side profession (read: front) will be an alchemy shop. The other players were whining about items so he broke..some even got minor rings out of him (swimming and the like). I just chose items that were "ingenious" for my characters strength score. I also managed to change out my light cross bow for a hand cross bow all the better for the weight that i can carry(Dm is fine with this). Whips are always useful though so I will have to disagree with you on that point. Trip/grab/disarm (all based on the attack roll which for a whip is ranged...which my character is very good at) the whip also has a million uses (not to downplay the dagger in the least...watch indiana jones movies for a reference of what can be done with a whip =P)

Again thanks for your suggestions and please keep them coming

edit: looking at the minds eye link *bookmarking* (thanks a bunch...that would definitely have some benefits...also found the "shadow mind" prc there that looks really appealing for my character)
SlanderPanic
10-12-07, 02:01 PM Energy ray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyRay.htm) doesn't have a saving throw. Also, because it's a ray, you can crit with it.

The power you're thinking of that lets you rearrange your powers, skills, and feats is psychic reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm). Note that this also works on other willing characters.

You can trip/disarm/grapple with a whip, yes. With your Strength modifier and your poor BAB, you shouldn't. In addition, you'll be taking a -4 nonproficiency penalty. A good psion or wizard never lets an opponent get within 15 feet of him anyway. (When someone manages to do so, there are better strategies than breaking out a whip.) Also, you cannot apply your Dex to attack rolls with a whip unless you spend a feat on Weapon Finesse.

On the other hand, a whip is cheap, light, and useful in noncombat situations, so it won't hurt you to have one around. You just shouldn't use it in combat for the most part.

Frankly, as a low-level psion, you should avoid melee combat under pretty much all circumstances. You're too easy to hit, even with your excellent Dex, and you're far too squishy, even with Psionic Body and a good Con.

Also: Your DM is letting you have hand crossbow proficiency and alchemical gear due to good roleplaying? Nice.
AFireY
10-12-07, 03:23 PM Yes yes very VERY nice for the Energy ray can't wait to get home and flesh it out =P

very true i shouldn't be doing trip/disarm/grapples and your also right that no one should be getting that close to me. The way I figure...if some one does get that close to en gauge me I am almost assured that my a$$ is going to get handed to me on a silver platter (insert funny paper doll pun) at these low levels so I chose the whip, lighter and more versatility in my mind for other situations (non combative). Again new to the whole feats thing so I didn't know I would have to use one for weapon finesse (this was not the case in 2nd ed.) So I will concede to your points again (thanks a bunch :) )

In regards to the role playing...Yes he is...I seem to be the the category of ***** less and flesh out my character more which the DM seems to appreciate. I gave him a 2 page biography for my character on what his history was where his ambitions lie, who are his possible enemies, and where I see the character in general going...apparently the other players had not done this and he though it was a novel idea (ensue players resentment).
chicgeek
10-12-07, 05:00 PM So I checked out the Mind's Eye alternative class feature and liked the Harbinger feature (which replaces your 5th level feat) which adds 1d3 DC for 5 extra pp. But it seems kind of useless at that level since you're only able to spend 5pp on a single power.

And is it an either/or choice for Telepathic Communication or Harbinger? If you take one, does that prevent you from taking the other because they both "replace the bonus feat at 5th level"? Or can you take one and take the other later?
Jaid
10-12-07, 06:26 PM harbinger is terrible. for most powers where you care about the save DC, 5 power points will typically increase the DC by 2 or 3. except that when you augment your powers, you *also* get better stuff with it. and also, the opponent doesn't get to save to check whether the augment actually even does something or not. and also the augment doesn't force you to take a power that most people feel is unimpressive at best.

(translation: don't get harbinger... just augment your powers instead. doesn't cost you a feat, is much more consistent, and is pretty much better in almost every way)

also, you would be trading in your 5th level psion bonus feat for either of those 2 abilities. you only get 1 5th level psion bonus feat, therefore you can only trade it in once.

mind you, harbinger is so bad, that they should just let you take it for free... if you even want it...
carnivore
10-14-07, 11:38 AM try looking here for more ideas:

3.5 Psion Buildguide and Compendium (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=624041)

there are a lot of Sample builds.... some with Equipment options also..

but for now.... try this:

Moon Elf(Lawful Evil)

Psion (Telepath) 1

STR: 7
DEX: 19
CON: 15
INT: 20
WIS: 14
CHR: 15

Feats:
Psycrystal Affinity(personality:Friendly +3 bonus on Diplomacy checks )
Psionic Body

Powers:...4 PP to spend
Empathy
Entangling Ectoplasm
Telempathic Projection

Skills:
4 ranks Concentration
4 ranks Knowledge (Psionics)
4 ranks Psicraft
4 ranks Bluff
4 ranks Diplomacy
4 ranks Sense Motive
1 rank Craft(Alchemy)
1 rank Knowledge(Arcana)
1 rank Knowledge(Religion)
1 rank Knowledge(Nature)

Equipment: Ave 75 GP
10gp....5x daggers
35gp...light crossbow
2gp.....20 bolts
10gp ...leather armor
3gp .... light Wooden Shield
Remainder 15gp... misc equipment and supplies

Tactics:
At this level....his main tactic is Diplomacy....use your powers to boost your skill checks at this level, focus on Skills now, later powers.....followed by running away as fast as he can. He can help his party with Entangling ecto...then use missile fire(crossbow). Not very much to do but try to survive.

remember Diplomacy Checks have No PP cost, No Save, No SR/PR.... if you make the check, you get the benifits... try for small amounts(exa: Changing attitude from Hostile to Indiferent(DC 25).... then you can go from Indiferent to Friendly(DC 15) much easier... than to try it in one shot(DC 35)

at 2nd level you get a major boost in Diplomatic ability , if you put at least 1 Skill point in:

Diplomacy
Bluff
Sense Motive

later get 5 ranks in Knowledge(nobility and royalty) and boost it even farther.

dont take Psionic Charm... if you plan to go into Thrallherd, you will get it for free then

:D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AFireY 10-12-07, 09:03 AM	Looking to play a Psion for a new game. Haven't played since 2nd ed. and quit before they even had the psionics handbook. Some suggestions from some experienced players would be much appreciated. Here is my build thus far: Psion (Telepath) 1 Moon Elf Lawful Evil STR: 7 DEX: 19 CON: 15 INT: 20 WIS: 14 CHR: 15 Feats: Psionic Body (Psionic) Psionic "Forgot the title" (General, this is in the XPH on the bottom of a page gives +2 powerpoints and an aditional power requirements: must be taken at lvl 1) Powers: Inertial Armor Psionic Charm Crystal Shard Astral Construct (see feat above) Weapons: cross bow with sleep poison caltrops with Acid inside whip alchemical fire acid vials I am used to playing wizards, but like i said I have never played a psionic. I see my character as sort of an antihero with his fingers in as many pies as he can get them into (resources = power). I would like some suggestions on Prcs and power progression (i.e. must have skills and powers) as well as feats (they are new to me). I was looking at the thrallherd...liked it some but since I am already a telepath seems like a waste Prc because I will be getting most of those powers on my own for my own manipulation enjoyment. open to suggestions, comments, and questions...just need to hear some other opinions from some experienced players Thanks in advance
Bacris 10-12-07, 09:33 AM	At 1st level, Astral Construct really isn't going to help you out - it's only going to last 1 round. And the feat (Hidden Talent) doesn't help out Psionic Body. What I'd recommend is scrapping that feat and, at 3rd level, taking Expanded Knowledge for Astral Construct instead. Same benefit, but you get +2 hit points and 3 rounds of use. for your other feat, I'd probably recommend Psicrystal Affinity - also nets you +2 HP, Alertness, and a minor buff. At higher levels, it can act as a great scout, but lock in with your DM what happens when a psicrystal dies, as the XPH doesn't cover it. Cheers, and happy gaming!
SlanderPanic 10-12-07, 11:30 AM	I'd probably get energy ray rather than crystal shard at first level. The net damage is about the same, but the former is more versatile. You're more likely to be fighting enemies with DR than energy resistance. Besides, if you're smart, there are a thousand things you can do with energy ray that just aren't possible with crystal shard. (Destroying an enemy's weapon is a fun example.) I'm with Bacris on suggesting you take Psicrystal Affinity instead of Hidden Talent. It'll be of more benefit to you both now and in the long run. Something to keep in mind: Psicrystals never sleep. Ever. If someone tries to sneak up on your party while you're sleeping, your psicrystal can wake you up. Most everything else is good, but I wouldn't bother buying a whip. You seem to have a pretty high equipment budget for a 1st-level character. (Sleep poison is 75 gp per dose, meaning that a single dose typically costs an average 1st level psion's entire starting budget (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/index.htm#randomStartingGold).) Honestly, with a Strength of 7, you can't carry jack anyway. (Light load is 23 lbs.) I wouldn't load out with anything heavier than a shortspear, club, a few daggers, and a light crossbow. The former three can all be thrown, which is a last-ditch effort at best, given your low Strength, but might distract an enemy long enough for you to run away. Shortspears are good for poking into dark crevices and setting off traps from a distance. Clubs are free. Daggers... 1,001 uses and counting, baby. The crossbow is the one weapon you'll have that won't be borked by your Strength score and, at first level, it'll do about as much damage as a power. Alchemist's fire and acid flasks are a great idea, but you should probably wait until they're a little more affordable. Thrallherd is a great prestige class for a telepath. You can't go wrong with having your own private cadre of minions who get automatically replaced with no effort on your part and no penalty. For a character that values power and control, the power point discounts on psionic charm and psionic dominate should not be overlooked. Frankly, given your stated character concept, it'd be silly not to go into thrallherd at the first opportunity. Addendum: You may also want to look into the Telepathic Communication alternative class feature (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a). You can't get it until 5th level, but it's a very powerful ability that stays useful pretty much forever.
AFireY 10-12-07, 12:01 PM	First off thanks for the quick responses...and I am now looking at making the minor adjustments =) (as per your suggestions) Astral construct isn't going to help me out at first level you are right, just thought about getting a jump on it for the future endeavors. will dump this and do some research on the psi-crystal, but from what you describe it would definitely be a boon to my character (wouldn't want anyone to sneak up on me). Chose crystal shard because of the save I beleive will have to look into energy ray and see...I basically just skimmed the powers haven't gotten anything perminate yet. I also seemed to have skimmed the thrallheard less powerpoint for power use would be great (how could I not have read that). Plus i beleive there is a power (from reading these forums) that allows you to unlearn and learn another power...could always do this to unlearn the powers that i have that and that the PRc will give me. As far as the equipment the DM is pretty much letting us start out with any "mundane" items as long as they are reasonable. My characters side profession (read: front) will be an alchemy shop. The other players were whining about items so he broke..some even got minor rings out of him (swimming and the like). I just chose items that were "ingenious" for my characters strength score. I also managed to change out my light cross bow for a hand cross bow all the better for the weight that i can carry(Dm is fine with this). Whips are always useful though so I will have to disagree with you on that point. Trip/grab/disarm (all based on the attack roll which for a whip is ranged...which my character is very good at) the whip also has a million uses (not to downplay the dagger in the least...watch indiana jones movies for a reference of what can be done with a whip =P) Again thanks for your suggestions and please keep them coming edit: looking at the minds eye link bookmarking (thanks a bunch...that would definitely have some benefits...also found the "shadow mind" prc there that looks really appealing for my character)
SlanderPanic 10-12-07, 02:01 PM	Energy ray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyRay.htm) doesn't have a saving throw. Also, because it's a ray, you can crit with it. The power you're thinking of that lets you rearrange your powers, skills, and feats is psychic reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm). Note that this also works on other willing characters. You can trip/disarm/grapple with a whip, yes. With your Strength modifier and your poor BAB, you shouldn't. In addition, you'll be taking a -4 nonproficiency penalty. A good psion or wizard never lets an opponent get within 15 feet of him anyway. (When someone manages to do so, there are better strategies than breaking out a whip.) Also, you cannot apply your Dex to attack rolls with a whip unless you spend a feat on Weapon Finesse. On the other hand, a whip is cheap, light, and useful in noncombat situations, so it won't hurt you to have one around. You just shouldn't use it in combat for the most part. Frankly, as a low-level psion, you should avoid melee combat under pretty much all circumstances. You're too easy to hit, even with your excellent Dex, and you're far too squishy, even with Psionic Body and a good Con. Also: Your DM is letting you have hand crossbow proficiency and alchemical gear due to good roleplaying? Nice.
AFireY 10-12-07, 03:23 PM	Yes yes very VERY nice for the Energy ray can't wait to get home and flesh it out =P very true i shouldn't be doing trip/disarm/grapples and your also right that no one should be getting that close to me. The way I figure...if some one does get that close to en gauge me I am almost assured that my a$$ is going to get handed to me on a silver platter (insert funny paper doll pun) at these low levels so I chose the whip, lighter and more versatility in my mind for other situations (non combative). Again new to the whole feats thing so I didn't know I would have to use one for weapon finesse (this was not the case in 2nd ed.) So I will concede to your points again (thanks a bunch :) ) In regards to the role playing...Yes he is...I seem to be the the category of ***** less and flesh out my character more which the DM seems to appreciate. I gave him a 2 page biography for my character on what his history was where his ambitions lie, who are his possible enemies, and where I see the character in general going...apparently the other players had not done this and he though it was a novel idea (ensue players resentment).
chicgeek 10-12-07, 05:00 PM	So I checked out the Mind's Eye alternative class feature and liked the Harbinger feature (which replaces your 5th level feat) which adds 1d3 DC for 5 extra pp. But it seems kind of useless at that level since you're only able to spend 5pp on a single power. And is it an either/or choice for Telepathic Communication or Harbinger? If you take one, does that prevent you from taking the other because they both "replace the bonus feat at 5th level"? Or can you take one and take the other later?
Jaid 10-12-07, 06:26 PM	harbinger is terrible. for most powers where you care about the save DC, 5 power points will typically increase the DC by 2 or 3. except that when you augment your powers, you also get better stuff with it. and also, the opponent doesn't get to save to check whether the augment actually even does something or not. and also the augment doesn't force you to take a power that most people feel is unimpressive at best. (translation: don't get harbinger... just augment your powers instead. doesn't cost you a feat, is much more consistent, and is pretty much better in almost every way) also, you would be trading in your 5th level psion bonus feat for either of those 2 abilities. you only get 1 5th level psion bonus feat, therefore you can only trade it in once. mind you, harbinger is so bad, that they should just let you take it for free... if you even want it...
carnivore 10-14-07, 11:38 AM	try looking here for more ideas: 3.5 Psion Buildguide and Compendium (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=624041) there are a lot of Sample builds.... some with Equipment options also.. but for now.... try this: Moon Elf(Lawful Evil) Psion (Telepath) 1 STR: 7 DEX: 19 CON: 15 INT: 20 WIS: 14 CHR: 15 Feats: Psycrystal Affinity(personality:Friendly +3 bonus on Diplomacy checks ) Psionic Body Powers:...4 PP to spend Empathy Entangling Ectoplasm Telempathic Projection Skills: 4 ranks Concentration 4 ranks Knowledge (Psionics) 4 ranks Psicraft 4 ranks Bluff 4 ranks Diplomacy 4 ranks Sense Motive 1 rank Craft(Alchemy) 1 rank Knowledge(Arcana) 1 rank Knowledge(Religion) 1 rank Knowledge(Nature) Equipment: Ave 75 GP 10gp....5x daggers 35gp...light crossbow 2gp.....20 bolts 10gp ...leather armor 3gp .... light Wooden Shield Remainder 15gp... misc equipment and supplies Tactics: At this level....his main tactic is Diplomacy....use your powers to boost your skill checks at this level, focus on Skills now, later powers.....followed by running away as fast as he can. He can help his party with Entangling ecto...then use missile fire(crossbow). Not very much to do but try to survive. remember Diplomacy Checks have No PP cost, No Save, No SR/PR.... if you make the check, you get the benifits... try for small amounts(exa: Changing attitude from Hostile to Indiferent(DC 25).... then you can go from Indiferent to Friendly(DC 15) much easier... than to try it in one shot(DC 35) at 2nd level you get a major boost in Diplomatic ability , if you put at least 1 Skill point in: Diplomacy Bluff Sense Motive later get 5 ranks in Knowledge(nobility and royalty) and boost it even farther. dont take Psionic Charm... if you plan to go into Thrallherd, you will get it for free then :D